cross server play is only real fix

[SidneyFault]

simple easy fix for anonymity , attach a tag that can not be removed from chat and above the player which contains their server origin on it and bam no more anonymity... kind of common sense.. There are ways to end that... and for those of you who played wow.. you never noticed the they had server names attached to players names in the chat or in in the player tag over the toons head... lot of oblivious people then

[Socore]

Cross server LFG would actually make queue times WORSE for some people. Look at it this way:

 

Your server has 50 tanks LFG, 40 healers, and 125 dps, thats enough for 40 4man groups with the single server structure. You are competing with 124 other dps for one of those 80 slots, theres a 64.5% chance you will be one to get in.

 

Another server has 20 tanks, 200 dps, and 30 healers lfg. These dps have a 20% chance to get in.

 

Combine the two into the same cross server pool:

The new total is 70 tanks, 325 dps, 70 healers. You are now competing with 325 people for 1 of 140 slots. There is now a 43.07% chance you will be one of the dps to get into a group.

 

The DPS on servers with fewer tanks and healers will get into groups more often, but the people on the servers that have a healthy population balance will get in slower than with single server.

 

This is the most intelligent post yet! Thanks so much for explaining to the WoW community why cross server LFG is bad. The only personal benefit to xrealm lfg would be if you are tank or healer so geared (or skilled) that it didn't matter the quality of group you got because you could just carry those scrubs to victory. With that said I agree with a previous poster, the only reason some of you are getting so huffy is most likely due to the fact they are a poor player (or undergeared for the content) but want to hop on the backs of others to achieve things for them.

 

This whole debate is really over laziness tbh. I am one of those people who have been playing MMO's since before they were cool. There were no group finders for games like Asheron's Call or Vanguard, ect... You, the player, has to build a reputation and a network and actually put forth the effort to accomplish anything. Today's players have become spoiled rotten and take for granted something that was designed to help them succeed, god forbid it takes more than thirty minutes to find a group. If you can't find a group via the LFG finder maybe you should be joining a guild that does the content you are doing, I know, difficult concept to grasp, being social on a social game!

 

If after all of this you are still not satisfied, do yourself and the rest of us a favor, and find a new game, this one is obviously not for you.

[uniz]

the only people that need a cross server lfd are

 

terrible pvpers that don't want their reputation known to everyone that they are.

 

ninja pvers that don't want their reputation known to all.

 

my server has no queue times

 

i get instant groups with my healer but have to wait a few minutes with my dps toons.

 

if you play at odd times this will not help. cross server will not fix this as having servers with different times in the group defeats the purpose in the first place.

 

it will not make you get a group faster. there is a reason people don't play tanks nor healers and this wont fix it.

 

cross server fixes nothing. it is a myth. it is a feature every exwow en titlist player believes that is REQUIRED in mmos. it is the same with most add ons and one button dps macros.

 

make friends and learn to play the game. not have the game play for you.

[Socore]

make friends and learn to play the game. not have the game play for you.

 

This is a difficult concept to grasp... You're saying I should find other players in this Massively Multiplayer game to play with? And I need to play the game myself and NOT rely on add-ons and macros to do the work for me?

 

 

NO WAY!

 

[Seregul]

How, exactly, is it highly contrived. It's common knowledge that LFG tools have a shortage of tanks and healers. The perfect server would have a 25% tank, 25% healer, 50% dps population using the LFG tool. Granted there may be servers that are actually low on dps, but that is EXTREMELY rare.

 

Fact is, the closer your server is to 25/25/50, the better off you are. Some servers are fairly well balanced, others are not. Those that aren't will INCREASE dps queue times for those that are, and those that are will DECREASE dps queue times for those that aren't, if combined into a cross server model. Thing is, most servers don't have good balance, so it usually only results in a small total decrease in wait time, possibly even breaking even.

 

You're assuming a wide variance from server to server in terms of role distribution, with nothing to substantiate why you think that might be the case. A better assumption would be that distribution on each server is roughly the same. Even then that doesn't really matter, because queue distribution will only match server distribution for a sufficiently large pool of players in the queue. As the number of people in the queue shrinks you increase the chances that the distribution will become too imbalanced for the LFG tool to function properly.

[Criiiiket]

IMHO the queues here are NO longer than they are in WoW. In fact, for a DPS they are QUICKER. Class balance here in SWTOR is MUCH better than it is in WoW, so much so that CS LFG is not needed.

 

Those of you QQing about Queue times, this must be your first MMO.

 

Someone said earlier about how same server queueing wasn't preventing ninja looting because they saw a ton of people talking about it in general chat. That means it IS working. In these first stages of the LFG finder the Ninja Looters get their reputations, in a week or more, they will all be blacklisted.

 

It does not take long to figure out who all the baddies are, on Jung Ma they are all very well known.

 

I've already done around 10 HM Fps with the group finder. My role is solely DPS. Queue times are SHORTER than the ones in WoW, (My main char in WoW was a raid tank, so if even I am not complaining about queue times... noone should be) and the groups I've gotten with have been more willing to cooperate.

 

not a SINGLE person has left before the instance was finished.

 

People who stay the whole instance are super duper rare in CS Queues.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Criiiiket

[Daeada]

You're assuming a wide variance from server to server in terms of role distribution, with nothing to substantiate why you think that might be the case. A better assumption would be that distribution on each server is roughly the same. Even then that doesn't really matter, because queue distribution will only match server distribution for a sufficiently large pool of players in the queue. As the number of people in the queue shrinks you increase the chances that the distribution will become too imbalanced for the LFG tool to function properly.

 

Ok, let's assume the distribution is roughly the same on all servers. That means you gain nothing in terms of queue time, and have the added complication and higher likelihood of bad behavior due to anonymity.

 

As for the issue of smaller pool to grab players from: Yes, adding cross server would form a few extra groups, due to some servers being more tank heavy, and others being more healer heavy, but is that (relatively miniscule) amount of extra groups formed worth the hassle that anonymity creates? That answer depends on the person. For me, it is not.

 

In other words:

 

Pros of cross-server queues:

5-10% more groups formed across whole game population, due to balancing of tank/heal populations.

 

Cons of cross server queues:

Anonymity allows people to be more irresponsible with their actions, since their name has no meaning.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Daeada

[Criiiiket]

And as far as building community goes, I can't tell you how many times i've ALREADY after only two days seen someone say "OH HAAAIII didn't i run *insert content here* with you yesterday???"

 

or "I ran *insert* with bob last night, don't invite him, he is a rage quitter"

 

THAT is how you build a community folks. People who actually KNOW each others names. Doesn't happen in cross server games, the only ways you know someone there is if you regularly do content that can't be done in the LFG, or if they constantly troll the chat channels.

[Criiiiket]

I think we are all forgetting what kind of "bad behavior" cross server creates.

 

It's not just people who are mean, or ninja loot.

 

9/10 times it usually means a /quit group after the first wipe. I cannot tell you how often this happens in WoW. The frequency is large.

 

So then imagine spending all that time in queue, ( And trust me, even with CS the queue time will still be there...) and then everyone quits.

[Valkirus]

Having played RIFT, I imagine this happened because of my first point. The numbers queueing were simply too low to support a single server tool. They just didn't meet population requirements to approach similarity, statistically speaking. And as for the WoW data, I obviously can't know for sure, but I have a sneaking suspicion that the places it was helping was in the low to mid game, NOT end game. Unless servers there are actually fairly sparsely populated (at least with folks who want to do endgame group dungeons, which may be true). It simply makes no sense that a medium to large size imbalanced pool would match slower than a gigantic, similarly imbalanced pool.

 

I think the non-end game dungeons possibly could benefit from x-server, but keep it out of HM and Ops group finder. You'll do nothing for queue times and destroy any sense of community accountability.

 

Your suspicions about it not helping in end game content is wrong. One reason Blizzard came out with the cross server LFR ( looking for raid ) was so more players could experence end game content. And sence this had happend...they have dramaticaly increased the numbers of players being able to experence end game content. One reason they are expanding it to all 3 new raids in thier next expansion.

[Criiiiket]

Your suspicions about it not helping in end game content is wrong. One reason Blizzard came out with the cross server LFR ( looking for raid ) was so more players could experence end game content. And sence this had happend...they have dramaticaly increased the numbers of players being able to experence end game content. One reason they are expanding it to all 3 new raids in thier next expansion.

 

 

Cross Server LFG has been out for years, and they JUST last patch came out with cross server or lfg end game.

 

The person you are replying to is mostly correct, until LAST patch you could NOT LFG end game content in WoW. Or any raid for that matter.

 

And it's nerfed to the ground, and all of the difficult (or moderately challenging) mechanics are taken out.

 

Oh and BTW if you were wondering... it is a TOTAL mess. Constant rage quitting, QQing, Whining, NINJA ALL OVER THE PLACE, and a total lack of common gamer knowledge. LFR in WoW is a traumatic experience I still receive counseling for.

 

LFR was implemented so that baddies could play the end game content too, but the gear drops there made it a necessary stepping stone for progression raiders as well.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Criiiiket

[Daeada]

Your suspicions about it not helping in end game content is wrong. One reason Blizzard came out with the cross server LFR ( looking for raid ) was so more players could experence end game content. And sence this had happend...they have dramaticaly increased the numbers of players being able to experence end game content. One reason they are expanding it to all 3 new raids in thier next expansion.

 

TOR already has an easy-so-you-can-experience-the-content mode, it's called Story Mode. Prior to LFR in WoW, you needed a decent endgame guild to experience endgame raiding, as there was no easy way to PUG raids. We currently have an easy way to PUG story mode raids with the LFG tool.

 

Cross server is irrelevant to the point you are making.

[Jederix]

Blizzard Dev's have stated that if they had the LFG to do over agian they wouldn't have done it cross server. They have had to put more time, money and resources into that one feature than anything else in that game. They have had to put all kinds of controls on it because of the cross server idiots who ruin other peoples play, or kick someone for stupid reasons. They had to incent tanks and healers to even go into the queue because not enough of them were... Yeah it has worked real well for them all right..

 

Blizzard's developers have said no such thing. Their xserver tool is wildly popular among its playerbase. The only thing that I am aware of them stating they wish they hadn't added was arena.

 

If they thought xserver was such a bad idea, they wouldn't be expanding it in their next expansion. I will, however, accept proof via a link where Blizzard has explicitly stated their xserver tool was bad and should not have been implemented.

[Jederix]

Cross Server LFG has been out for years, and they JUST last patch came out with cross server or lfg end game.

 

The person you are replying to is mostly correct, until LAST patch you could NOT LFG end game content in WoW. Or any raid for that matter.

 

And it's nerfed to the ground, and all of the difficult (or moderately challenging) mechanics are taken out.

 

Oh and BTW if you were wondering... it is a TOTAL mess. Constant rage quitting, QQing, Whining, NINJA ALL OVER THE PLACE, and a total lack of common gamer knowledge. LFR in WoW is a traumatic experience I still receive counseling for.

 

LFR was implemented so that baddies could play the end game content too, but the gear drops there made it a necessary stepping stone for progression raiders as well.

 

LFR was added to allow more people access to the end game raids. To see the content. It, of course, was immediately hijacked by raiders who were after fill-in pieces for gear. They started acting poorly (taking half their guild on LFR runs so they could make sure everyone got the gear they were after, rolling need for items to sell or just to spite those outside of their guild, etc). The playerbase followed suit.

 

The tool is just the means; blame the players for their douchenozzle attitudes, not the tool.

[TovarishSR]

Ninjaing is being fixed in Mists of Pandaria with the Looking For Raid tool (its pretty much a an auto random loot generator-no needing/greeding options). LFR is so faceroll it doesn't even matter anyway. It was made purely for the casuals that don't do end game raiding...or any raiding at all.

 

As for the raging/qq...that exists everywhere. The LFG tool (server only) will show that. Having cross server doesn't make it worse. And as for the whole argument that is ruins the community.../troll. For most servers on WoW people still do PUGs in server. So if you don't want to use the LFG in fear of "ruining community"...don't use it. But don't take the option away from people who do.

 

Server community is what the people on the server make it out to be. You still make friends/enemies...etc. Using this as an argument is a complete load of bull. I've used the LFG/LFR tool on WoW for a very long time...and my server community is still as strong...hell...even stronger. I've grouped with players in LFG that have transfered to my server and even joined my guild because they liked the way I play.

 

But if BW already stated they aren't gonna implement it...then there's no reason to cry over it. I just find it stupid as a healer/tank (I play both) I have an extremely long que time for a FP...I can't even imagine how bad it is for dps. I guess its "just be lucky to be in a decent sized guild so you don't have to worry about that".

Edited June 28, 2012 by TovarishSR

[FourTwent]

And as far as building community goes, I can't tell you how many times i've ALREADY after only two days seen someone say "OH HAAAIII didn't i run *insert content here* with you yesterday???"

 

or "I ran *insert* with bob last night, don't invite him, he is a rage quitter"

 

THAT is how you build a community folks. People who actually KNOW each others names. Doesn't happen in cross server games, the only ways you know someone there is if you regularly do content that can't be done in the LFG, or if they constantly troll the chat channels.

 

This is a very key point in my argument against cross server LFG.

 

I'm not gonna say the reason we should not allow cross server is because of the bad behavior, although that is a negative point. But our communities should have the chance to let players build a reputation for themselves.

 

People will be held accountable for their actions. . .and people will be able to build relationships with other players because they pug a lot. You're not going to get this with a cross server LFG tool. I feel that this is KEY for developing different communities in the different servers.

[Stoicraven]

i don't have issues wit ques. There's a lack of healers on my server but eh nothing a quick guild quip doesn't fix!

[ChazDoit]

I hope Bioware doesnt wait until the servers are dead again to go: "you know? we could actually use cross server" I really hope they are a bit more proactive than that and start working on that now.

[Esproc]

Blizzard's developers have said no such thing. Their xserver tool is wildly popular among its playerbase. The only thing that I am aware of them stating they wish they hadn't added was arena.

 

If they thought xserver was such a bad idea, they wouldn't be expanding it in their next expansion. I will, however, accept proof via a link where Blizzard has explicitly stated their xserver tool was bad and should not have been implemented.

 

Wrong! There are many players from WoW who hate the X-Server LFG tool. They constantly complain about the Ninjas, Griefers, Rage Quitters, Abusive language and insults. All this is due to rude people letting loose with the extra advent of anonymity.

 

Blizzard is trying to fix the ninja element of the X-Server LFG feature by removing the current loot rules. Instead they will be implementing an automatic roll for each character to see who gets a chance at some item that may be used by their spec.

 

That still doesn't stop the rude, crude, rage quitting, purposefully wiping group people from ruining your time of game play.

 

Don't believe me? Visit the Blizzard forums and see the rage at the chaos the X-Server LFG/R tool has created. If it was so great, Blizzard wouldn't be working on a complete overhaul of what bit that they can, but leaving people stuck with what Blizzard can't fix, and that can't be policed locally, the player base.

 

Also a question that was already brought up and entered into our forums here in a thread:

MadVillian

Old Yesterday , 02:21 PM | #1

/rant

 

Ok, can someone please explain this to me. How come I've had some of the worse groups in the past two days than I've had in the last year. I don't get it....we had server transfers and I've had some great groups, then we got LFG tool and all of a sudden we've got loot ninjas, people who don't know how to play, don't know the instance...anything you can think of...I dont get it because its the same group of people that have been on since the server transfers. What is it about LFG tools that make people loose their minds???

 

/rant off

 

So already it's becoming a question on same server, and you want the extra advent for your anonymity, to create more havoc?

[Proetus]

Whats the point? We have 2 fleet instances of dam near 250+ in each instances, people aren't queing. If i want to run an instance i'll build a group with a few guildmates and group a pug or two if needed. That way i get what i want, not 3 random people/classes tossed together. Good Luck with the group finder and Lost Island.

[MajikMyst]

There is no need for a cross server LFG.. Stand on the fleet and watch all the people using chat to find a group.. There is your problem.. Cross server isn't going to help that..

 

People need to learn how to use the system, learn how to put in the correct specs that they represent, and life will be much better..

 

It is utterly pathetic how many folks get pissy when they lose something from their spec because they queued as the wrong spec.. I won a tank item for my shadow tank. Another shadow tank got pissy about it.. Even though he was identified as dps.. You want to roll tank, then join the group as tank.. Simple as that..

 

Cross server LFG isn't going to fix that.. It in fact could make make it worse..

[Blackardin]

Its funny all the talk of community and accountability.

 

Right now with the current system.

 

1. People ninja

2. People suddenly drop group without a word

3. People are bad players

4. People act like jerks

 

What would a X-server LFG do to make this worse? LOL

 

You are creating a hyperbolic reality in order to support your argument. You would have to first prove conclusively that your claim exists to the extent you are promoting it. The likelihood of which would be rather low because of the server accountability that is present while containing individuals to their respective servers. People acting as you are suggesting would end up, very quickly, limiting their potential group-mates on a server, whereas a cross server LFG would promote the type of behavior without benefiting the player base with shorter queue times as was demonstrated in Wow.

[Valkirus]

Wrong! There are many players from WoW who hate the X-Server LFG tool. They constantly complain about the Ninjas, Griefers, Rage Quitters, Abusive language and insults. All this is due to rude people letting loose with the extra advent of anonymity.

 

Blizzard is trying to fix the ninja element of the X-Server LFG feature by removing the current loot rules. Instead they will be implementing an automatic roll for each character to see who gets a chance at some item that may be used by their spec.

 

That still doesn't stop the rude, crude, rage quitting, purposefully wiping group people from ruining your time of game play.

 

Don't believe me? Visit the Blizzard forums and see the rage at the chaos the X-Server LFG/R tool has created. If it was so great, Blizzard wouldn't be working on a complete overhaul of what bit that they can, but leaving people stuck with what Blizzard can't fix, and that can't be policed locally, the player base.

 

Also a question that was already brought up and entered into our forums here in a thread:

 

 

So already it's becoming a question on same server, and you want the extra advent for your anonymity, to create more havoc?

 

Yeah. They are implementing the type of loot rules TOR has for Operations. And it is a good idea.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Valkirus

[Blackardin]

Quote: Originally Posted by Valkirus View Post

Your suspicions about it not helping in end game content is wrong. One reason Blizzard came out with the cross server LFR ( looking for raid ) was so more players could experence end game content. And sence this had happend...

 

I did a few of those raids before I left, just to check it out. They were horrible, unorganized, people coming and going, grabbing an item and dropping group, wiping, yelling, swearing at each other. No one explained anything, they just zerged in like a mob.

 

they have dramaticaly increased the numbers of players being able to experence end game content. One reason they are expanding it to all 3 new raids in thier next expansion.

 

Wow's player base has been in strong and steady decline for the last six months.

[Valkirus]

I did a few of those raids before I left, just to check it out. They were horrible, unorganized, people coming and going, grabbing an item and dropping group, wiping, yelling, swearing at each other. No one explained anything, they just zerged in like a mob.

 

 

 

Wow's player base has been in strong and steady decline for the last six months.

 

You are speculating. The last two sub reports have shown WoW's sub base at 10.2 million. So it is not now declining but holding steady. And try not to inject your personal hatred for WoW with false info.