cross server play is only real fix

[Zaemiel]

 

 

Cross server does NOTHING to help people build their reputation in the community. Sure there's other ways that I can accomplish this goal, but I like it this way(just like you like it your way).

 

.

 

I am sorry, but you have 50,000 players on your server. Do you know them all? They all have 'reputation'?

I imagine you're saying in LFG channel: "Oh, let me check my 50,000 people long list of characters how good this person is!" Don't be silly. Those you know are in your friend list and it is not even 100 persons long. So, there is no difference where you take the guy from your server or some other...

[crunchbarry]

Hello All,

 

Look I know a lot of people have strong opinions about this but after what I have seen recently I have to voice mine....

 

I firmly believe that the current fix for server population was disastrous. Trading medium to low servers for long que times, server lag to to high traffic, and things like that is not really ok. Along with people basically being forced to switch servers. My server, Mask of Nihilus, went from having a few hundred people playing to a ghost yard. Now I feel like I have to give up (possibly) my character names, recreate my guild, with possible a new name and things like that. And while I know that I am probably the minority here, that was never the right thing to do....

 

The Obvious fix for server population for pvp, warzones, operations and the like is cross server play. That would have obviously maintained server populations without people having to give up something like character names, legacy names, guilds. Also would have prevented the huge cluster **** of extremely high que times, 45+ minutes wait times... you would have given the community exactly what they wanted all a long... Which is something that has even asked about at the guild summit.

 

Cross server play would give us not limit pvp, warzones, or operations groups to the number of people on the server but would allow for groups to be formed across all player.. now how is that a bad idea.. I heard that that would give people anonymity... which is absurd, as you can always report players regardless of cross server... I mean for the most part most large MMOs all have cross server play of some sort. The solution given to us makes ZERO sense. because it still limits the number of people available and has only given rise to a number of other issues..

 

DEVS, care to explain this one???? Why the giant step backward?

 

I am curious as to what the rest of the community thinks.

 

Cheers!!!

 

My server is one of the ones with incoming transfers. There is no server lag. Fleet environment with 300+ is fine and to be expected. Cross server LFG is an ok idea but I would definitely disagree with cross server PVP. In fact, imo, a LFG tool is not even very useful to me. If I am looking for a group I have a general chat channel for that. Cross server ANYTHING destroys server community. Although, I agree being able to actually play the game is important so Xserver flashpoints and ops would be OK.

[Vankris]

i am sure one can put together a mathematic model for the group finder and predict wait time, but without going too deep we can look at specific case to give a small understanding.

 

 

Population = 12 (3 tank, 3 heal, 6 DPS) this is the ideal I expect next to no wait for either role.

 

Population = 12 (1 tank 1 heal 10 dps) In this exemple, we see that changing the balance between role have a profound effect of the wait time. DPS will have long queue

 

Population = 1200 (100 tank, 100 heals, 1 000 DPS), the population is hundred fold the above, huge increase in player pool, yet i expect no effect wait time, DPS will still have a long long wait queue.

 

Conclusion while role balance have a profound effect on the queue, the size of the population have no influence as long as there is at least enough to form a group.

[Teefal]

I'm having absolutely no problems on Jung Ma. No queue's at all. Get in the game right away, LFG pops within a few minutes, PVP pops within a few minutes. GTN is overflowing with goodness and my sales go through same day.

 

AND I'm getting to know a bunch of new people from LFG that I then choose to play with later.

 

Someone's doing something right.

[DaveMoomin]

yes cross server groups will totally fix the problem,

90% of ALL players are DPS

5% are Healers

5% are tanks

 

changing the pool you pull from will not change the proportions, there will still not be enough tanks or healers and still a long queue for groups...

[FourTwent]

I am sorry, but you have 50,000 players on your server. Do you know them all? They all have 'reputation'?

I imagine you're saying in LFG channel: "Oh, let me check my 50,000 people long list of characters how good this person is!" Don't be silly. Those you know are in your friend list and it is not even 100 persons long. So, there is no difference where you take the guy from your server or some other...

 

You're not having 50k people playing the game(or the same type of content you are) at the same time you're. If you're usually playing the game at 8, you'll start playing with other people that routinely play the game at that same time.

 

It's not like you have to keep track of a huge list of names either. Although I do appreciate your attempt at humor(I think it was humor), if they're bad, you put them on your ignore list and you never see them again if you're using the LFG tool

[Teefal]

And and just in case someone didn't mention this ... the PVP window, if you scroll to the bottom, says that there WILL be "cross-server matches" in season one.

 

MATCHES, not groups.

[ZudetGambeous]

 

Cross server does NOTHING to help people build their reputation in the community. Sure there's other ways that I can accomplish this goal, but I like it this way(just like you like it your way).

 

Single server also enables us to police each other. Sure we can ignore a ninja looter or a horrible tank. But that' just enables him to go into more LFG groups and ruin their experience. With single server that person can be literally blacklisted from any 'serious' player on the server that wants a completion and doesn't want to just waste their time.

 

I know you may this us policing our community is 'illogical', but I've seen it happen, even in this game(when kill trades were happening on ilum). It works.

 

If you are building a reputation to become the most awesome tank ever then clearly you aren't using the LFG tool anyway so I don't see how it matters. The whole point of the LFG tool is that you either don't know anyone or you don't care so you want to just get a group as quickly as possible. Anyone else using the tool could care less how awesome a tank you are, if they knew that they wouldn't be using the tool, they'd be forming a group from their friends list.

 

Sure I guess you could meet them using the tool, they see how good of a tank you are, they add you to their friends list then they don't use the tool anymore... but again we are back to the problem being Bioware's archaic technology not a Cross-Server problem. If Bioware allows you to add friends from different servers then that argument goes away too.

[Zaemiel]

i am sure one can put together a mathematic model for the group finder and predict wait time, but without going too deep we can look at specific case to give a small understanding.

 

 

Population = 12 (3 tank, 3 heal, 6 DPS) this is the ideal I expect next to no wait for either role.

 

Population = 12 (1 tank 1 heal 10 dps) In this exemple, we see that changing the balance between role have a profound effect of the wait time. DPS will have long queue

 

Population = 1200 (100 tank, 100 heals, 1 000 DPS), the population is hundred fold the above, huge increase in player pool, yet i expect no effect wait time, DPS will still have a long long wait queue.

 

Conclusion while role balance have a profound effect on the queue, the size of the population have no influence as long as there is at least enough to form a group.

 

Your model is 'spherical horse in vacuum'. You can have 1,000 dps on one server, 1,000 heal on other and 1,000 tank on third one. the unswer to question how fast do they find a group without an x-server LFG is 'never'.

 

So you need more information to make math, actually. You also should take into account how many time in a row tanks and heals want to pass FPs! And the more possibility you have the better in averal.

[patchew]

dont forget, cross server also means more groups looking for the same thing. it does indeed make things a bit quicker but opens up a giant can of worms about player conduct (not to mention exploits)... which, from my days in wow, was devastatingly poor and the main reason i quit after 6 years playing.

There is a community in tor, i still chat to random folk i met when i first joined the game and leveled up with them. cross-server would kill the community feeling, stone dead, and all we would have is wow 2.0 .... and you dont want that.

 

hopefully cross-server will never ever happen and addons will never ever happen, personally i hate having macros in computer games let alone anything else. fair level playing field for all, let skills win.

Thats the game i yearn for and, at the moment, its the game i have with tor.

[crunchbarry]

They had better not put cross server warzones in this game. That would completely ruin the game. Ranked matches with full teams... maybe would be ok. Anything else, no... "oh hey, look... its me and a bunch of [it will never matter] on my team. we're playing against [filler i'll never see again]." No. Not a good idea. Not even close. I quit wow shortly after they did that. Ruined the game for me. Sorry.

[Callianna]

So dps is crying that the queues are too long so they want cross server.... so let's add another 1000 dps( random number) to the queue. Yes more tanks and healers will be added to the queue but not 1000 of each, all that will end up happening is the queue will become longer than it is right now. There will always be more dps than there are healers and tanks, that is a fact.

When wow brought out cross server lfg they had to bribe tanks and healers to use it by adding an incentive/bonus for completing a lfg. Then the dps got a slightly less queue time and cried that "no fair, why do they get the shiny and I don't". If you play a dps class unfortunately you will have a queue time, that is just the way that ball bounces, and cross server will not magically make your queue time disappear.

[Arkerus]

If you want to stay on a dead server, please do. But don't complain about not finding groups when you stayed on a server with 5 people. We don't XLFG tool when the main servers have thousands of people on them.

[Valkirus]

i am sure one can put together a mathematic model for the group finder and predict wait time, but without going too deep we can look at specific case to give a small understanding.

 

 

Population = 12 (3 tank, 3 heal, 6 DPS) this is the ideal I expect next to no wait for either role.

 

Population = 12 (1 tank 1 heal 10 dps) In this exemple, we see that changing the balance between role have a profound effect of the wait time. DPS will have long queue

 

Population = 1200 (100 tank, 100 heals, 1 000 DPS), the population is hundred fold the above, huge increase in player pool, yet i expect no effect wait time, DPS will still have a long long wait queue.

 

Conclusion while role balance have a profound effect on the queue, the size of the population have no influence as long as there is at least enough to form a group.

 

Ok....I was on my server at prime time and was the only one in the Fleet and it showed 19 other players on the server using the /who. I was in que for like a hour and half and finally quit and logged off. There is no way a LFG is going to work on the low pop server. Your logic is flawed. The larger the pool from which to make up a group from will and does decrease a player's wait times. You are assuming all the same players /classes on each pop server will be using the tool at the same % and this is wrong. It will vary a lot from server to server.

[Zaemiel]

You're not having 50k people playing the game(or the same type of content you are) at the same time you're. If you're usually playing the game at 8, you'll start playing with other people that routinely play the game at that same time.

 

It's not like you have to keep track of a huge list of names either. Although I do appreciate your attempt at humor(I think it was humor), if they're bad, you put them on your ignore list and you never see them again if you're using the LFG tool

 

Still, I think you do not know even 10 % of the all people of server, so you really do not care with whom you're going with one from your server or from other. That's it. In both cases you see party member with huge probability for the last time. Still cannot understand how does that help to "build comunity" =\.

[FourTwent]

Ok....I was on my server at prime time and was the only one in the Fleet and it showed 19 other players on the server using the /who. I was in que for like a hour and half and finally quit and logged off. There is no way a LFG is going to work on the low pop server. Your logic is flawed. The larger the pool from which to make up a group from will and does decrease a player's wait times. You are assuming all the same players /classes on each pop server will be using the tool at the same % and this is wrong. It will vary a lot from server to server.

 

But that's a different issue. Using cross server queues as a band aid solution to low population servers is wrong anyway. Bioware should(and I assume will) be setting up more transfers and more merges to help bring your low population server into a larger pool

[Daeada]

Ok....I was on my server at prime time and was the only one in the Fleet and it showed 19 other players on the server using the /who. I was in que for like a hour and half and finally quit and logged off. There is no way a LFG is going to work on the low pop server. Your logic is flawed. The larger the pool from which to make up a group from will and does decrease a player's wait times. You are assuming all the same players /classes on each pop server will be using the tool at the same % and this is wrong. It will vary a lot from server to server.

 

You were given a chance to transfer for no cost, you chose not to take it. You are now experiencing the problems associating with not transferring. This isn't BW's fault, they provided you with the tool, and the opportunity to make use of it.

 

On a related note, yeah, there will be massive disparities between servers based on population, and what cross server does is average them all out. What you are saying is, since you CHOSE not to transfer, you want everyone else's queue times bogged down by your servers abysmal queue times?

[Zaemiel]

But that's a different issue. Using cross server queues as a band aid solution to low population servers is wrong anyway. Bioware should(and I assume will) be setting up more transfers and more merges to help bring your low population server into a larger pool

 

What if I don't want to make any trasfers? And what about loging-in queues to high populated servers?

[Valkirus]

If you want to stay on a dead server, please do. But don't complain about not finding groups when you stayed on a server with 5 people. We don't XLFG tool when the main servers have thousands of people on them.

 

So....BioWare should just forget those on 100+ servers? May as well close those down huh? You would not have to use said cross server tool, but one would help those on the 100+ servers find groups. How many players you think are on those 100+ servers? And they have thier own good reasons for wanting to stay there. And with the mess which was created with the server transfers, donot blame them at all. Soon...most of those on the low ones will unsub and if you think that is no big deal....I think BioWare must care. If they donot...then they deserve what they are getting.

[Tahana]

How is cross server a bad thing? Seriously.. single server limits the total number of people available for pvp, and warzones to the number of people on your server.. cross server allows for that number to be exponential. The benifit being easier to get a group or pvp game going which out having to rely on a heavy/high traffic server with load issues... I mean the idea that you can still try to select a group from your single server as well was a great idea. But again how is this s bad idea and how will it ruin the game, with or without

 

Lets see.. cross server pvp..

Less likely to run into the same people so it would be easier to hack and not get reported is a major one. If you play against the same groups and you hack you'll eventually get found out and reported. We can only hope that BW goes to permabans.

 

That would be a big why not and why it would be a bad thing.

[Vankris]

Your model is 'spherical horse in vacuum'. You can have 1,000 dps on one server, 1,000 heal on other and 1,000 tank on third one. the unswer to question how fast do they find a group without an x-server LFG is 'never'.

 

So you need more information to make math, actually. You also should take into account how many time in a row tanks and heals want to pass FPs! And the more possibility you have the better in averal.

 

what you said is true, there are many parameter, that only bioware have access to to make an accurate model.

i didn't pretend to make a model but take some extreme limit to understand global trend.

 

The limit i chose range from the "ideal" ratio to a more DPS heavy ratio (we know that in reality, role composition for a given server is almost always DPS heavy)

 

By population, i don't mean population global of the server, but population using the LFG at a given moment in time.

the idea i am trying to pass across is to show at which point the actual role balance is crucial for the group finder. Expecially when i read thread thinking that (and i quote) "cross server play is only real fix"

Cross server will not make miracle, it might help in the off hours, 2-9am server time, or help on very very low populated server, other than that, for the most part, i don't see cross server having an impact at all.

 

What will have an impact is rebalancing the role, blizzard did understand it.

They offer double spec, Call to arm system rewarding in demand role, those really have had an impact, cross server has had so little impact, i don't even remember at what point it has been implemented in wow.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Vankris

[crunchbarry]

Still, I think you do not know even 10 % of the all people of server, so you really do not care with whom you're going with one from your server or from other. That's it. In both cases you see party member with huge probability for the last time. Still cannot understand how does that help to "build comunity" =\.

 

Let me put it this way. I walk into a large club or bar i've never been into before, and i'm alone. I'll have a few drinks. Might even talk to one or two people. It will be ok....

 

Or I could go to a bar I frequent and I'm a member of. I know about half the people there. Its a much better time. Would I rather go to the other place? No.

 

In short, your point is pointless and moot. DO NOT support cross server PvP simply because you are a casual player and chose to PvP only occasionally, and get your panties in a bunch when you have to wait 5 minutes for the game to start. You are screwing the rest of the PVP people out of the enjoyment of the game.

[Tahana]

So....BioWare should just forget those on 100+ servers? May as well close those down huh? You would not have to use said cross server tool, but one would help those on the 100+ servers find groups. How many players you think are on those 100+ servers? And they have thier own good reasons for wanting to stay there. And with the mess which was created with the server transfers, donot blame them at all. Soon...most of those on the low ones will unsub and if you think that is no big deal....I think BioWare must care. If they donot...then they deserve what they are getting.

 

Pretty much.. the choice is there and it isn't a 'hobsons choice' which I am sure will be your next argument. If you want to play the move is a necessary recourse.

[Daeada]

What if I don't want to make any trasfers? And what about loging-in queues to high populated servers?

 

You reap what you sow. If you choose not to transfer, you deal with the negatives (and positives) of being on an extremely low pop server, just as those that transferred deal with the negatives (login queue times) and positives.

[Callianna]

What mess are you referring to? I transferred 7 characters and had no problems. As for queue times the longest I've had to sit in one is 5 minutes.