Lore wise, which class would win?

[HavocMaster]

Oh look, another Fandalorian who thinks Mandos are some kind of Mary Sue supermen.

 

 

 

http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/1/1e/Jangodied.JPG

 

Yep. Totally lightsaber proof.

 

I myself am somewhat of a Fandalorian, and while I don't believe they are supermen, I loved every one of Traviss' novels, and wish GL hadn't ruined the Mandalorians in TCW. Additionally, the armor of Jango Fett was durasteel (not lightsaber proof), as versus beskar (lightsaber proof), and Windu sliced through the jumpsuit seal in between the helmet and the torso armor, which was naught but enhanced fabric, and while Fett's armor was not lightsaber proof, most of the TOR era Mandalorian armor was in fact, beskar, i.e. lightsaber proof. If you read the Legacy of the Force books, you would find that Boba later has some beskar armor made for him, as an upgrade over his father's durasteel, along with a special gorget piece, guarding the neck, to prevent decapitation.

[HellbirdIV]

I personally loathe Traviss' work, because it's the very definition of bad self-insert fanfics being made canon - mainly because that lady has no idea how to make something fantastical actually seem believable (IE, every single thing she wrote about Mandalorians).

 

I quite honestly don't get the obsession people have with Mandalorians as Jedi-killing supersoldiers when they were originally concieved as nothing more than an interstellar conglomerate of warrior clans who were more "Mongol Horde" (IE, large numbers of mooks combined with a few excellent tacticians leading them) than "Invincible Space ******es".

 

most of the TOR era Mandalorian armor was in fact, beskar, i.e. lightsaber proof

 

Actually, is there a source on that? Because Mandalorians in TOR are pretty easy to kill with lightsabers, blasters, or punching (Go go Scoundrel!)

Edited July 14, 2012 by HellbirdIV

[dark-jehts]

Actually, is there a source on that? Because Mandalorians in TOR are pretty easy to kill with lightsabers, blasters, or punching (Go go Scoundrel!)

 

You are comparing lore and gameplay , Of course in a MMORPG the mobs won't be as ****** as in the lore 'cause they need to be killed , to complete quests and such

[HellbirdIV]

You are comparing lore and gameplay , Of course in a MMORPG the mobs won't be as ****** as in the lore 'cause they need to be killed , to complete quests and such

 

*drops a stack of Tales of the Jedi, Knights of the Old Republic and The Old Republic comicbook collections at your feet*

 

Mandalorians die pretty easy in those too.

Edited July 14, 2012 by HellbirdIV

[Shimmerstrike]

I think it'll be a though match between the Inquisitor and the Jedi Knight. I believe that the Jedi Knight would win at this point, as the Sith Inquisitor is probably just able to handle a fraction of what power he's really able to command. In time, the Sith Inquisitor will be unmatched due to the ghosts that reside within him. Relieving him of them, and he'll be on par with the others. But as I said... for now, the Jedi Knight rules the day while the Sith Inquisitor is learning new secrets and looking for a way to use the full potential of his newfound powers.

[Adiari]

Oh look, another Fandalorian who thinks Mandos are some kind of Mary Sue supermen.

http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/1/1e/Jangodied.JPG

 

Yep. Totally lightsaber proof..

 

Jango Fett didn't wear Beskar, your point is invalied. (Even if Beskar is not 100% resistant to a Lightsaber)

 

of the TOR era Mandalorian armor was in fact, beskar,

 

*drops a stack of Tales of the Jedi, Knights of the Old Republic and The Old Republic comicbook collections at your feet*

 

Mandalorians die pretty easy in those too.

 

All but one of the are not in the ToR period, and even so a Mandalorian is not made of Armour, they do have open points that are needed to allow the joints to move, but overall, Beskar is extremely resistant to Lightsabers, however there has been cases when you can break it with enough time (Exar Kun opened a door of it, ect ect.)

Edited July 14, 2012 by Adiari

[HellbirdIV]

All but one of the are not in the ToR period

 

Yes they are. It's a span of several thousand years, yeah, but it's all considered part of the same era. Since we're talking specifically about the Mandalorians, even more so, this entire period is the heyday of the Mandalorians, when they were at their absolute strongest as a culture.

 

I think it'll be a though match between the Inquisitor and the Jedi Knight.

 

The problem for the Inquisitor is that, while he/she is chock full of Darkside power, the Dark Side is actually pretty weak. Looking at the movies, for example, the Light side is clearly stronger if it's ever a question of measuring their power against eachother, and the Dark Side - true to its nature - is at its most powerful when it manipulates its enemies into serving it.

 

Anakin becomes Darth Vader through the Dark side's manipulative power, yet twenty years later he stands to choose once again between Light and Dark, and instead chooses Light, because this time the Dark side has no kind of hold on his will as it did before.

 

While Sith, Warrior and Inquisitor alike, are incredibly powerful in their own right, they are crippled compared to the Jedi Knight and Consular for this reason.

[Adiari]

Yes they are. It's a span of several thousand years, yeah, but it's all considered part of the same era. Since we're talking specifically about the Mandalorians, even more so, this entire period is the heyday of the Mandalorians, when they were at their absolute strongest as a culture.

 

Errr.... No? Clan Ordo, one of the most dominant clans decided to not follow the Resol'nare and ignored Mandalore's call which resulted in a civil war within the Mandalorians, who were already recovering from their sound beating against the Republic in the Mandalorian wars only a few hundred years ago. They are no way near at their strongest. This is likely one of their weaker periods if anything.

 

Anakin becomes Darth Vader through the Dark side's manipulative power, yet twenty years later he stands to choose once again between Light and Dark, and instead chooses Light, because this time the Dark side has no kind of hold on his will as it did before.

 

That is complete nonsense, the Light is not stronger than the Dark, nor is the Dark Side stronger than the light. You could take a trillion examples where both Sides triumph over the other. On an individual scale at least. On a larger scale the Light side can prove ‘better’ in the fact it does not have a direct influence on an individual which often leads to wishing to kill their superiors to gain more power and such.

 

An example of the Dark Side besting the Light in would be the One Sith who pretty much completely destroyed the Jedi Order. The leader of One Sith was a Jedi, however when he become a Sith, he was considerably more dangerous.

Edited July 14, 2012 by Adiari

[Rayla_Felana]

In general, though there are exceptions, the Dark Side is stronger in the short-term but the Light Side is overall the most powerful, it rewards it's users with immortality in the netherworld of the force, when a Dark Side force user dies, he must either become a spirit and hope to possess another body or be taken into the void of the Dark Side. Edited July 14, 2012 by Rayla_Felana

[HellbirdIV]

the Light is not stronger than the Dark, nor is the Dark Side stronger than the light.

 

In terms of raw "force" (pardon the expression) the Light is stronger, whereas the Dark has as its greatest strength its ability to influence and corrupt. That is why Jedi traditionally defeat Sith in head-on battles, but Sith will always survive and occasionally prevail through intelligent use of the Force rather than brute strength.

 

In fact, since you mentioned the Rule of One: Darth Krayt didn't defeat the Jedi directly, he subverted the Galactic Alliance and led them into a war with the reconstituted Empire, weakening both sides for his takeover. Likewise the Rule of Two culminated in Palpatine's master plan to convert the Republic into an Empire by first turning the Republic against the Jedi.

 

These were the biggest successes in Sith history against the Jedi, and you can compare it to the Sith Empire's open warfare against the Republic both during the Great Sith War (Old Sith Empire), Jedi Civil War (Revan/Malak's Sith Empire) and the Great Galactic War (Reconstituted Sith Empire) where they inevitably lost despite their best efforts and a number of significant tactical and strategic advantages.

 

Both sides are equally powerful, but in different ways - and I assume that the thread is about straight up fights, not political maneuvering

[Canino]

the Light is not stronger than the Dark, nor is the Dark Side stronger than the light.

This. If you are possessed by the dark side, you become corrupted, but if you are blinded by the light, you can no longer see the good in people. All people have the chance to be good (Vader in RoTJ) and although you may become unimaginably wise with the light side, what good are to the big picture if you only see corruption?

 

 

This is my opinion anyway.

[HavocMaster]

Well if you want to go that route, the Agent is probably the weakest class in the lore, because of the sheer numbers of Imperial intelligence operatives, snipers, spies and grunts you end up slaughtering through the Republic quests (Only beating out the Trooper by a small margin because the Trooper is supposed to be a Special Forces soldier and Republic SF are rarer as enemy mobs than Imperial Intelligence, but only just).

 

For the record, my mains are Trooper and Bounty Hunter, not Jedi.

 

 

 

... So your argument is that the Agent wins because you're the kind of writer who disregards the primary canon in favor of making stuff up to support your fan favorite?

 

Well, actually, your character is a Cipher Agent, which are elite, and he is said to have graduated top of his class from the Academy. Additionally, Cipher Nine defeats Jadus, whose power is second only to the Emperor's. And the Emperor could wipe the floor with any of the classes, or even all combined. And no, the JK did not fight the Emperor, he fought the Voice, or the body in which the Emperor;s spirit resided in at the time. The presence of Jadus was said to cause suffering, so walking into the presence of the Emperor's true form would probably either burn you into ash or drive you mad. And, Cipher Nine defeats his second. So, by my reasoning/train of thought, our friend Cipher Nine could destroy all comers. He would easily destroy the Trooper and the Smuggler, as well as the BH, and I don't think the Force-users can withstand an orbital strike. Even Kallig, while immortal with his spirits, would have his physical form damaged or destroyed. And if Kallig was sufficiently weakened, it is possible the spirits would leave him, seeing as they are imprisoned, not willing. At which point he would die. So, IA wins.

[HellbirdIV]

Actually, I just did the Act III finale for the Jedi Knight yesterday. There's no mention of it being someone else possessed by his spirit (unlike the first time you defeat him), some lesser form or anything else - it's the Emperor, plain and simple. After he actually dies after your confrontation, with even Imperial characters acknowledging it in the story.

 

His presence lingers as a Force ghost, since, y'know, powerful Sith, but he's as dead as dead can be.

Edited July 14, 2012 by HellbirdIV

[Rayla_Felana]

Actually, I just did the Act III finale for the Jedi Knight yesterday. There's no mention of it being someone else possessed by his spirit (unlike the first time you defeat him), some lesser form or anything else - it's the Emperor, plain and simple. After he actually dies after your confrontation, with even Imperial characters acknowledging it in the story.

 

His presence lingers as a Force ghost, since, y'know, powerful Sith, but he's as dead as dead can be.

 

No, the Sith Warrior story tells us clearly that it was only the voice of the Emperor, nothing more.

[HellbirdIV]

No, the Sith Warrior story tells us clearly that it was only the voice of the Emperor, nothing more.

 

Apparently he's already a Force ghost to begin with (According to Wookieepedia) as, after being killed in this form, his spirit withdraws to recover, implying that if the physical body the JK kills isn't his original body, his original body has ceased to exist already. (Not unlikely, given the effects of the Dark side on body tissue)

 

Ever seen Stargate SG-1? With Anubis in Season 5-6? That's kind of how the Emperor seems to be.

Edited July 15, 2012 by HellbirdIV

[Ranadiel_Marius]

Apparently he's already a Force ghost to begin with (According to Wookieepedia) as, after being killed in this form, his spirit withdraws to recover, implying that if the physical body the JK kills isn't his original body, his original body has ceased to exist already. (Not unlikely, given the effects of the Dark side on body tissue)

 

Ever seen Stargate SG-1? With Anubis in Season 5-6? That's kind of how the Emperor seems to be.

 

Don't believe everything on Wookiepedia. Honestly I'm on the verge of saying don't believe anything on Wookiepedia considering the amount of incorrect info I have seen cited to there recently. >.>

 

 

The SW after storyline emails clearly state that the Hand moved the Emperor's body so he could recover.

 

 

I'm not at my PC, so I can't pull up the copy I have saved there, but I think I have a copy of the relevent text in my Primer on the Emperor.

 

Edit: Found it.

 

 

The unexpected blow was a shock. The Emperor’s consciousness was wretched from his Voice. He now slumbers gathering his strength.

 

The Imperial Guard has moved the Emperor’s body. As his Wrath, you will soon be called upon to rain fury on the Emperor’s attackers.

 

Edited July 15, 2012 by Ranadiel_Marius

[Sinemetu]

Well if you want to go that route, the Agent is probably the weakest class in the lore, because of the sheer numbers of Imperial intelligence operatives, snipers, spies and grunts you end up slaughtering through the Republic quests (Only beating out the Trooper by a small margin because the Trooper is supposed to be a Special Forces soldier and Republic SF are rarer as enemy mobs than Imperial Intelligence, but only just).

 

/shrug. Normals outnumber force-users. You'd expect to kill more of them. If we fought as many Jedi as we do commandos and agents, the Jedi order would be decimated. The fact remains that Jedi aren't as tough to kill as you want them to be.

 

Also, I like the way you turn around and use a gameplay argument ("Mandalorians aren't very tough in swtor!") when it favors you. Classy, bro.

[Captain_Zone]

Don't believe everything on Wookiepedia. Honestly I'm on the verge of saying don't believe anything on Wookiepedia considering the amount of incorrect info I have seen cited to there recently. >.>

 

It's actually pretty easy to spot the BS info on there. The whole section about Malgus and what happens to him "after" False Emperor, for example. lol

[ColeWorld]

Well it depends on the scenario.

 

If we're talking about open field like 'Deadliest Warrior' , where both combatants see each other and instantly charge into combat it favors Knights, Warriors, Inquisitors, Consulars, and to a lesser extent Bounty Hunter and Troopers.

 

If we're talking about both sides being aware of the others presence, but not knowing exact location just yet it favors Smugglers and Agents.

 

If we're talking about Rock/Paper/Scissors? I'd put my money on the Imperial Agent.

 

A foot race? Consular and Inquisitor.

 

See what i'm getting at?

[HellbirdIV]

Well it depends on the scenario.

 

We have a winnar!

 

But yeah, that's kind of why the whole idea of versus threads are inherently flawed, fights rely heavily on circumstance.

[Jedikillar]

bit of a necro but oh well, its nothing that's changed:

 

id say their all equal. seems to me devs went out of their way to make it that way, so that it makes sense for smugglers and sith and everyone else to all be fighting the same things, and even each other. this seems to me to be the point of planet quests, to show you that each class will be just as powerful at any given point in the story.

 

if it did come down to an equal footing fight though, and there can be only 1 victor, its a toss up between smuggler, agent, and maybe bounty hunter, as the force users and trooper would all go have their glorious battle, while these guys just stayed back and picked some of em off, maybe the agent or smuggler just stays hidden the whole time until someone wins only to get em with a backstab or something, or maybe the bounty hunter is a powertech and uses stealth scan and just owns everyone.

 

but the point is, it would prob be smuggler, agent, or bounty hunter, and i expect the smuggler would most likely just try to escape, rather than actually fight, so it would come down to agent and bh, in which case i would claim it comes down to the gear(not gameplay wise just hear me out)--as in, does the bh armor have a bunch of ****** in it that a good sniper could exploit, or an operative could stick a blade in? if not then it could go either way, but i give it to the agent still, just because of the massive array of poisons and such at their disposal, but just because of my bh fandom, i could give it to the bh too with all their cool bh stuff. and if the bh does have some sort of weakness in his gear like that, well, he doesnt stand much of a chance.

 

and it certainly does depend on whos writing it. i would probably find a way to make the consular win the big battle, then have the bh win overall(with all the non force users[other than dead trooper] ganking up on the consular first), and the smuggler escaping with style to be hunter down later by bh.

 

3 Years Later Edit: Pretty sure I was drunk when I wrote that. Obviously not gonna bump this thread, but for anyone who comes across it like I did again by happenstance, my opinion is now: IA>SI>SW>=JK>=JC>BH>=SM>TR

 

Agent is like the Batman / Chuck Norris. Won't necessarily win a straight up fight, but will never be in a straight up fight. You could argue the same for smuggler, but I don't think smuggler has anywhere near the skill of the others as much as just sheer luck. Inquisitor is essentially immortal, and imo(largely influenced by the bane novels) sith sorcery beats everything even discounting the ghosts(Sidious himself states that the Sith moved beyond lightsabers long ago. They are simply to mock Jedi). Except IA(batman). The only exception is the possibility of JC nullifying it, but I don't really see that happening. SW I think combat wise is above JK, but their feats are close enough that I put them as essentially equal. Knight I think is above JC due to a focus on combat, but JC has sheer power in the force that can't be underestimated, so I put him on about equal with JK and JC. BH being independent has more tech, freedom, and uniqueness in combat style to put him above trooper. Smuggler could fit in almost anywhere in there, but I personally put him below all of them except trooper.

 

As far as galactic influence, I say SI>IA>=JC>=SM>SW>=JK>TR>BH. Too many spoilers there I won't get into.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Jedikillar