dipstik Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 i have 3/5 campaign and i still need the head or chest to look the way i want (which is now impossible because my mask overwrites my hood... sadface) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaqen Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 The way i see it is, if the next set of gear is going to come from NiM EC, you probably not going to get it unless you have HM EC on farm by the time it comes out. Yes casuals will be able to get quite a bit of gear and be close to being BiS before NiM EC comes out, but if they dont have the experience of raiding in the game... they are not going to go far raiding ever. The ease of getting BH comms though benefits my alts, who i would like to be raid ready, but who are not a big priority to my guild (and shouldnt be). On a final note, if you are raiding for gear, the chance that you're willing to stick around when everything is on farm and where you are waiting for the next content to be released, is rather slim, and therefore makes you worthless to any serious progression guild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shatejesla Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 When you go see a movie, do you complain after it ends that you received no reward for watching it? OMG thank you! I could quote this into so very many threads on this forum, and it would still work! The day you need an imaginary sword to make it worth your time to take your imaginary person into an imaginary place to do an imaginary quest... your inner child is dead. Enjoy the content. If you don't enjoy the content, then there's probably a more rewarding way of spending your time. If you don't like swings, and you don't like slides, and you don't like the merry-go-round, and you don't like teeter totters... maybe the playground isn't the best place to hang out. No use getting mad at the parks department for not putting a firing range in your playground. Sorry if the metaphor got too complex for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mleft Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) Totally couldn't tell by your bias post that you preferred the latter group until you stated it, thanks for clearing that up. Who cares if they label it 'hardcore' or 'quololpooloo' it's just a label. We understand that by saying 'hardcore' they mean 'sitting in front of the computer non stop like a basement dweller.' Labelling things with consonants and vowels to make sounds is the point of words and which sound we use doesn't matter as long as the majority of people understand what that sound means. So listen up proplayer, elitist jerk just jerk or w/e you want to call yourself. You are not the center of this f**kin world. Many many others that are not like you want to play their aspect of the game on their own pace and get the same rewards as those that you think are meant for your kind. The thing is that if you deprive that from them they may think as you. That means why should they keep paying for a game that the only ones who have any chance on getting top end gear is your kind? So they will stop and get their money elsewhere and they might do so without ragewhine and threatening on the forums. So some time when you log on an even more deserted server than the ones we had up to now you will understand the meaning of first M in the MMO puzzle but then it would be too late for this game. And ofc YOU may dont care but many of us DO so do what you think you should do and leave us in peace Edited June 28, 2012 by mleft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anrew Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 A recent interview I saw said they were trying to increase difficulty more through coordination checks than gear checks. That they'll be able to get BH gear easily doesn't bother me much. That they'll have deceptively good gear and then fail massively at story mode operations because they aren't well practiced at coordination checks will bother me quite a bit I imagine. ^ I agree with. Gear does not make the player it only helps them. If you still mess up on mechnics gear won't save you all that much. Not really seeing this as an issue I mean EC mechanics IMO seem like a good challenge and not many people who will just throw BH mods into gear will be able to say they did the content. I think they should give alot more raid rewards though to keep people going back after they get things. Like rare drop speeders or relics or some random non-set piece that trumps BH. Sorry for tangent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiftyas Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 i have 3/5 campaign and i still need the head or chest to look the way i want (which is now impossible because my mask overwrites my hood... sadface) You can turn helm off in the interface options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiftyas Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 So listen up proplayer, elitist jerk just jerk or w/e you want to call yourself. You are not the center of this f**kin world. Many many others that are not like you want to play their aspect of the game on their own pace and get the same rewards as those that you think are meant for your kind. The thing is that if you deprive that from them they may think as you. That means why should they keep paying for a game that the only ones who have any chance on getting top end gear is your kind? So they will stop and get their money elsewhere and they might do so without ragewhine and threatening on the forums. So some time when you log on an even more deserted server than the ones we had up to now you will understand the meaning of first M in the MMO puzzle but then it would be too late for this game. And ofc YOU may dont care but many of us DO so do what you think you should do and leave us in peace That's like saying someone that works 20 hours a week should get paid the same amount as someone that works 80 hours a week. You could still get very good gear without clearing HM EC, but if you're not clearing the hardest content in the game, why should you be getting the best gear in the game? That's just stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossman Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) They did the same thing in LOTRO when it went F2P. Basically everyone who had spent months raiding through the current endgame got screwed over when the announced they were removing the gear gating mechanic from raids and adding better gear sets that you could get by pugging instances. Essentially making the raid we were running all summer worthless and completely pointless. Its this kind of slap in the face that makes serious raiders jump ship. Gear that you receive from endgame raids should be BIS for PvE. PERIOD. No exceptions to this rule. Edited June 28, 2012 by Fossman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiftyas Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 They did the same thing in LOTRO when it went F2P. Basically everyone who had spent months raiding through the current endgame got screwed over when the announced they were removing the gear gating mechanic from raids and adding better gear sets that you could get by pugging instances. Essentially making the raid we were running all summer worthless and completely pointless. Its this kind of slap in the face that makes serious raiders jump ship. Gear that you receive from endgame raids should be BIS for PvE. PERIOD. No exceptions to this rule. Yeah, it's ridicules. Like they're saying "Oh, you actually put time and effort into our game? Well f*** you!" Giving the best gear in the game to people that aren't doing the hardest content in the game is f***ed up. Especially when those players can still get pretty damn good gear without it. But oh well, me and a few of my mates have already canceled our accounts, hopefully we can find a game that actually appreciates it's dedicated players.... Though I doubt it. Noobs and casual players seem to be the majority so I'm sure games will just continue to cater to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ska-Di Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Guys, HM EC is actually more obsolete than you probably think... Because in fact any BOP mods can be transferred between alt-characters, and according to Dev response it is working as designed:D I've created a thread about this on Suggestion forums but no one really cares http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=493017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pure_laced Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Guys, HM EC is actually more obsolete than you probably think... Because in fact any BOP mods can be transferred between alt-characters, and according to Dev response it is working as designed:D I've created a thread about this on Suggestion forums but no one really cares http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=493017 No one cares because it is BY DESIGN as you mentioned yourself. So why tout your own horn that you created this suggestion that no one cares about when the Devs themselves said this is by design and won't be changed. Makes no sense. It is cheaper to run EC on your alts, than it is to run on your main, buy gear, pay the 150-200k credits to remove mods, put them into legacy gear, mail to alt, etc etc etc. EC isn't obsolete. Sure people can buy gear with BH comms, etc. It is still faster to run EC every week to gear up than just doing BH comms only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipstik Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 You can turn helm off in the interface options. offtopic, but in 1.3 PTS the mask was under the hood and it was awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siorac Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Yeah, it's ridicules. Like they're saying "Oh, you actually put time and effort into our game? Well f*** you!" Giving the best gear in the game to people that aren't doing the hardest content in the game is f***ed up. Especially when those players can still get pretty damn good gear without it. But oh well, me and a few of my mates have already canceled our accounts, hopefully we can find a game that actually appreciates it's dedicated players.... Though I doubt it. Noobs and casual players seem to be the majority so I'm sure games will just continue to cater to them. Yeah, those who use the group finder to get the 5 BH comms a day need to put in A LOT MORE TIME to get Black Hole gear and they have no access to Campaign gear. So what exactly is your problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craxim Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) Someone should check the BH Bulwark to the Campaign War Leader for Juggs. The mods are not at ALL the same... Black Hole Bulwark's MK-1 Greaves gives 57 accuracy rating, something you don't need any of as a tank. The Black Hole Bulwark's MK-1 Boots also give accuracy. Sure, you could switch these Enhancements out with Enhancements from the other 3, but it makes it hard to mod exactly how you need to, because this would force a certain amount of defense or absorb on you. None of the Campaign gear gives accuracy. Also, the only non-high strength Mod is on the Black Hole Bulwark's MK-1 Headgear, which would force you to take defense rating to offset the unnecessary drops in Endurance. Since the new PvP relics for tanks give either shield or defense, it makes it harder to get to the proper absorb rating. The point is, that as always, you MUST run HM EC to get the best gear. The only difference is that instead of the best gear being augmented gear, as it was in 1.2, the best gear now involves getting the best mods. Edited June 28, 2012 by Craxim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) But it's not just "for me". Every single player in the game can get fully decked without stepping foot in the joint. So what? That's not going to help them when future releases and harder content is released. Hell, it's not even going to help them run a Hard Flashpoint if they don't know the fights, etc... Knowledge and skill DOES actually play a part in the game you know. Edited June 28, 2012 by Obtena Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiftyas Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 Someone should check the BH Bulwark to the Campaign War Leader for Juggs. The mods are not at ALL the same... Black Hole Bulwark's MK-1 Greaves gives 57 accuracy rating, something you don't need any of as a tank. The Black Hole Bulwark's MK-1 Boots also give accuracy. Sure, you could switch these Enhancements out with Enhancements from the other 3, but it makes it hard to mod exactly how you need to, because this would force a certain amount of defense or absorb on you. None of the Campaign gear gives accuracy. Also, the only non-high strength Mod is on the Black Hole Bulwark's MK-1 Headgear, which would force you to take defense rating to offset the unnecessary drops in Endurance. Since the new PvP relics for tanks give either shield or defense, it makes it harder to get to the proper absorb rating. The point is, that as always, you MUST run HM EC to get the best gear. The only difference is that instead of the best gear being augmented gear, as it was in 1.2, the best gear now involves getting the best mods. I have no idea what your point is. It seems like you're linking gear with **** mods and saying 'Bahaha look at the **** mods!!!" What mods do you want that can't be found in black hole gear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiftyas Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 So what? That's not going to help them when future releases and harder content is released. Hell, it's not even going to help them run a Hard Flashpoint if they don't know the fights, etc... Knowledge and skill DOES actually play a part in the game you know. I've never denied the fact that some skill is involved. I'm just staying it's stupid to give the people without skill the same gear as the people with skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AichaHalcyon Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I've never denied the fact that some skill is involved. I'm just staying it's stupid to give the people without skill the same gear as the people with skill. I'm just curious how it would impact you in any way, shape, or form then. So they have the same gear, who cares? It doesn't mean they are as good as you or are clearing the same content as you. Literally, unless the only reason you play the game is to make sure you have better gear than everyone else, it shouldn't matter. It's not like they are using it for an advantage against you in PVP. Then I could see a problem with that. It is kind of amusing that this thread starting out with the idea that nobody would have to run HM EC to gear up for the next tier of content, when in reality you just want to make sure you and yours are better geared than the "less skilled" players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craxim Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I have no idea what your point is. It seems like you're linking gear with **** mods and saying 'Bahaha look at the **** mods!!!" What mods do you want that can't be found in black hole gear? Did you read what I posted? It seems like I'm linking gear with bad mods because I'm linking the Black Hole gear you said was BiS and made HM EC pointless. You yourself just said it had bad mods. You just proved my point. Guess I'll have to be more specific for those lesser minded of us here. Campaign War Leader's Greaves, the mod and enhancement from these is the same as the one from Campaign War Leader's Headgear, and cannot be found in any Black Hole Bulwark. The enhancement from Campaign War Leader's Boots can only be found in this piece and not in any Black Hole. Not to mention Black Hole Bulwark's MK-1 Armguards are high in strength unlike Campaign War Leader's Armguards which are better because they are high in Endurance. Lastly, as others have mentioned, Campaign War Leader's Lightsaber is HM EC only and so is Campaign War Leader's Shield. I don't see how you don't have any idea what my point is, seeing as I just said my point. Let me reiterate a little more clearly for you. You are wrong. Black Hole is not BiS. HM EC is not obsolete. You need to run it to be BiS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pure_laced Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I've never denied the fact that some skill is involved. I'm just staying it's stupid to give the people without skill the same gear as the people with skill. Why does it matter though? Let us say for argument's sake you are the 100th best skilled player in the world (if such a thing could even be measured). Why are you upset that some Joe Blow off the Nar Shadda block has roughly the same gear as you because he bought all blackhole gear and replaced his mods. You are still the 100th best skilled player in the world. The best gear isn't released yet. It is coming whenever they get around to developing it. Guess where it will be found? Nightmare Mode. They are claiming NiM will be all new gear, mods, etc and it will be in guild's best interests to down bosses. This is where the skill part kicks in. Stop whining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AichaHalcyon Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Did you read what I posted? It seems like I'm linking gear with bad mods because I'm linking the Black Hole gear you said was BiS and made HM EC pointless. You yourself just said it had bad mods. You just proved my point. You are wrong. Black Hole is not BiS. HM EC is not obsolete. You need to run it to be BiS. I think his point is that all the various mods/amoring/enhancements for each piece of Campaign gear can be cobbled together buy purchasing various pieces of Black Hole gear and stripping the mods and putting them into the appropriate piece of gear. Which could mean that a Sentinel DPS would have to purchase a piece of Scoundrel Healer gear in order to find the same mod that the Sent DPS would get in his Campaign gear. (That was just an example I made up, I have no idea what mods are in what gear, especially for classes other than my own.) I think that's what he is referring to anyway. It would be possible to Frankenstein your Black Hole coms into the correct configuration of Campaign gear. But that's beside the point that it would take forever to do, be expensive as heck, and it would still benefit you to run Denova in order to get as many Black Hole coms as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craxim Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I think his point is that all the various mods/amoring/enhancements for each piece of Campaign gear can be cobbled together buy purchasing various pieces of Black Hole gear and stripping the mods and putting them into the appropriate piece of gear. Which could mean that a Sentinel DPS would have to purchase a piece of Scoundrel Healer gear in order to find the same mod that the Sent DPS would get in his Campaign gear. (That was just an example I made up, I have no idea what mods are in what gear, especially for classes other than my own.) I think that's what he is referring to anyway. It would be possible to Frankenstein your Black Hole coms into the correct configuration of Campaign gear. But that's beside the point that it would take forever to do, be expensive as heck, and it would still benefit you to run Denova in order to get as many Black Hole coms as possible. Not sure about DPS, but as far as tanking goes, the Campaign is the ONLY place to get what is needed for us Juggs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) Why does it matter though? Let us say for argument's sake you are the 100th best skilled player in the world (if such a thing could even be measured). Why are you upset that some Joe Blow off the Nar Shadda block has roughly the same gear as you because he bought all blackhole gear and replaced his mods. You are still the 100th best skilled player in the world. The best gear isn't released yet. It is coming whenever they get around to developing it. Guess where it will be found? Nightmare Mode. They are claiming NiM will be all new gear, mods, etc and it will be in guild's best interests to down bosses. This is where the skill part kicks in. Stop whining. I'm going to hazard a guess here -- perhaps the people complaining about the extra BH mods feel the reward for playing well is GEAR, rather than people who like the idea of extra BH mods, where the reward of playing well is defeating CONTENT. If that's the case, then I can understand the frustration. Personally, I feel that gear is a waypoint, not a destination. I derive fun playing the game with my guild and the various social interactions that go along with it. But I can understand that someone with gear as their end goal would feel cheapened by others obtaining it easier than they did. I don't agree with it personally, but I can understand it. Edited June 28, 2012 by JeffKretz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerrmongerr Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) HM EC is irrelevant outside of a couple of narrow exceptions: 1.)There are some desirable enhancements and modifications that cannot be replicated by stripping black hole gear, because no black hole gear has that combination. A few tanking examples are out there .. .and yes, they are REALLY desirable, and I can't find them on BH gear. I would be willing to grind for a while to get a bunch of them, but it's hard to justify the raid time for what amounts to a few percentage points here and there. I'm not sure this is the case for every class, though. I'm sure some classes find the BH gear to be better or on par, thereby removing this incentive. 2.)For min/maxers who want to customize appearance, the set bonus being on the armoring is a godsend. But, this is basically a cosmetic issue. I can only imagine they bloated the BH rewards because so few people could do the content to get the gear. I think they went a bit too far, though. Seems like there are two easy ways to fix this problem. Reduce the Black Hole LFG rewards ... keep it at four BH comms for the LFG Ops and two for the flashpoints seems more balanced. The other option, without completely reworking campaign gear, would to be make the set bonuses different (and much better). Edited June 28, 2012 by Powerrmongerr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jubjubjubjub Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 (edited) The black hole gear is inferior to the campaign gear... This^^ Mk-1 gear is not as good as campaign. Oddly enough augmented rakata is better than Campaign for Trooper Eliminator gear. don't know what the thought process was there Edited June 29, 2012 by jubjubjubjub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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