HM EC now obsolete.

[Shiftyas]

Did you read what I posted? It seems like I'm linking gear with bad mods because I'm linking the Black Hole gear you said was BiS and made HM EC pointless. You yourself just said it had bad mods. You just proved my point.

 

Guess I'll have to be more specific for those lesser minded of us here.

 

Campaign War Leader's Greaves, the mod and enhancement from these is the same as the one from Campaign War Leader's Headgear, and cannot be found in any Black Hole Bulwark. The enhancement from Campaign War Leader's Boots can only be found in this piece and not in any Black Hole.

 

Not to mention Black Hole Bulwark's MK-1 Armguards are high in strength unlike Campaign War Leader's Armguards which are better because they are high in Endurance.

 

Lastly, as others have mentioned, Campaign War Leader's Lightsaber is HM EC only and so is Campaign War Leader's Shield.

 

I don't see how you don't have any idea what my point is, seeing as I just said my point. Let me reiterate a little more clearly for you.

 

You are wrong. Black Hole is not BiS. HM EC is not obsolete. You need to run it to be BiS.

 

Black Hole Bulwark's MK-1 Headgear There is the mod you want, it took 10 seconds to find so I'm not going to bother with the enhancements. They're probably out there too, just cause you're not good at finding things doesn't mean they don't exist.

[Shiftyas]

I'm just curious how it would impact you in any way, shape, or form then. So they have the same gear, who cares? It doesn't mean they are as good as you or are clearing the same content as you. Literally, unless the only reason you play the game is to make sure you have better gear than everyone else, it shouldn't matter. It's not like they are using it for an advantage against you in PVP. Then I could see a problem with that.

 

It is kind of amusing that this thread starting out with the idea that nobody would have to run HM EC to gear up for the next tier of content, when in reality you just want to make sure you and yours are better geared than the "less skilled" players.

 

It's not just that they have the same gear, it's that I no longer need to put effort in to get the best gear. The game just became far too easy, It's like the bulls*** they're doing in schools now and giving everyone that participated the same reward in sports. *** is the point in trying/being good if the outcome is the same for everyone? It's like playing soccer and the fat kid that just sits down picking at the grass the whole time is told he's as good as the kid that scored 3 goals. F*** that!

[Raansu]

It's not just that they have the same gear, it's that I no longer need to put effort in to get the best gear. The game just became far too easy, It's like the bulls*** they're doing in schools now and giving everyone that participated the same reward in sports. *** is the point in trying/being good if the outcome is the same for everyone? It's like playing soccer and the fat kid that just sits down picking at the grass the whole time is told he's as good as the kid that scored 3 goals. F*** that!

 

Getting 5 BH comms a day will take you longer to get all the mods from an inferior BH gear then it would to do one run of EC HM. I don't see how people think it's easier with the daily random LFG queue. You still have to run HM content and you have to do them every single day for FIVE comms...whoopdie doo.

[Shiftyas]

Getting 5 BH comms a day will take you longer to get all the mods from an inferior BH gear then it would to do one run of EC HM. I don't see how people think it's easier with the daily random LFG queue. You still have to run HM content and you have to do them every single day for FIVE comms...whoopdie doo.

 

Yeah, the problem with this is 5 comms a day isn't all you can get. There is the dailies weekly, SM EC, NM KP, Pilgrim and the groopfinder for SM EV/KP. It's easy as hell to get BH comms.

I'm also not saying that people clearing HM EC are going to stop because of it. What I am saying is it's possible to get pretty much as geared not clearing HM EC as you could get clearing it. Sure you might end up 10-20 stats short but "whoopdie doo"

[Raansu]

Yeah, the problem with this is 5 comms a day isn't all you can get. There is the dailies weekly, SM EC, NM KP, Pilgrim and the groopfinder for SM EV/KP. It's easy as hell to get BH comms.

I'm also not saying that people clearing HM EC are going to stop because of it. What I am saying is it's possible to get pretty much as geared not clearing HM EC as you could get clearing it. Sure you might end up 10-20 stats short but "whoopdie doo"

 

Thats alot of work for BH comms when you can just run EC HM once and get 3-4 pieces of a gear in one run. Just saying.

[xenofire]

I wouldn't have a big problem with this if there was indeed a 63 ilvl for nightmare mode. Grinding your buns off to get mid level equivalent isn't really that annoying to me.

 

Unfortunately, nightmare mode is a myth.

 

The only good change about all this is that I can make a BIS set by putting 61 armoring/mod/enhancements in rakata gear with augments, which saves me from having to use some of the poorly itemized armorings in the campaign pieces for sorc DPS.

[Atlanis]

So, you can now chuck an augment on any piece of gear and black hole comms are easier to get. So you could now just get a full Tionese set for the set bonus, augment it all, get mods from blackhole gear and have full augmented gear with set bonus and full 61 mods without ever setting foot in HM EC? Well done BioWare.... I mean I guess there is still the hilt... YAY! intensive!

 

You still need the Weapons and the mats^^

[Craxim]

Black Hole Bulwark's MK-1 Headgear There is the mod you want, it took 10 seconds to find so I'm not going to bother with the enhancements. They're probably out there too, just cause you're not good at finding things doesn't mean they don't exist.

 

You are so ignorant. That's not the mod I want. You linked the defense mod, I linked the absorb mod. All you did was link something I had already linked. You either know absolutely nothing about tanking stats and what the difference is, or you can't read, or you're an immature person who just can't admit when he's wrong.

 

You linked Black Hole Bulwark's MK-1 Headgear, which I had already linked, and said that it had the mod I was looking for. Advanced Elusive Mod 26B is the mod you are referring to. The mod I was referring to, which comes from Campaign War Leader's Greaves contains Advanced Resilient Mod 26B, which, as anyone with eyes can see, is not the same mod. You are wrong. Again.

 

To recap: You just straight up linked the wrong mod, said it was right, and then proceeded to insult me when it is actually you who is the one who is bad at finding things.

Edited June 29, 2012 by Craxim

[Shiftyas]

You are so ignorant. That's not the mod I want. You linked the defense mod, I linked the absorb mod. All you did was link something I had already linked. You either know absolutely nothing about tanking stats and what the difference is, or you can't read, or you're an immature person who just can't admit when he's wrong.

 

You linked Black Hole Bulwark's MK-1 Headgear, which I had already linked, and said that it had the mod I was looking for. Advanced Elusive Mod 26B is the mod you are referring to. The mod I was referring to, which comes from Campaign War Leader's Greaves contains Advanced Resilient Mod 26B, which, as anyone with eyes can see, is not the same mod. You are wrong. Again.

 

To recap: You just straight up linked the wrong mod, said it was right, and then proceeded to insult me when it is actually you who is the one who is bad at finding things.

 

I can admit when I'm wrong, obviously I didn't realise I was wrong, so let me go ahead and spell it out. I WAS WRONG! I'm sorry for not paying enough attention. I'm glad there is a point in your class still running it, because, coming from a class that there is very very very little point, it sucks! But oh well, back to WoW I go!

[Crixaliss]

You are so ignorant. That's not the mod I want. You linked the defense mod, I linked the absorb mod. All you did was link something I had already linked. You either know absolutely nothing about tanking stats and what the difference is, or you can't read, or you're an immature person who just can't admit when he's wrong.

 

You linked Black Hole Bulwark's MK-1 Headgear, which I had already linked, and said that it had the mod I was looking for. Advanced Elusive Mod 26B is the mod you are referring to. The mod I was referring to, which comes from Campaign War Leader's Greaves contains Advanced Resilient Mod 26B, which, as anyone with eyes can see, is not the same mod. You are wrong. Again.

 

To recap: You just straight up linked the wrong mod, said it was right, and then proceeded to insult me when it is actually you who is the one who is bad at finding things.

 

Interesting, you seem to be right, the only non-campaign place you can get this from is the bulwark mk-3 headgear, which can't be bought with commendations (though it can be a lucky drop from Kephess in story EC - but the chances are slim so we'll discount that as a viable source).

 

However, would you definately put that mod into a BiS piece? Would you prefer it over the Resilient Mod 26, which has more absorb at the cost of endurance?

[Shiftyas]

Interesting, you seem to be right, the only non-campaign place you can get this from is the bulwark mk-3 headgear, which can't be bought with commendations (though it can be a lucky drop from Kephess in story EC - but the chances are slim so we'll discount that as a viable source).

 

However, would you definately put that mod into a BiS piece? Would you prefer it over the Resilient Mod 26, which has more absorb at the cost of endurance?

 

Good tanks would do that. This dude seems to be one of those tanks that thinks it's better to have more hp than to prevent dmg in the first place. Glad I always healed smart tanks that realised preventing dmg is key.

 

But at the end of the day he is correct. The only way he can really get his s*** mods is by running HM EC.

[Craxim]

Interesting, you seem to be right, the only non-campaign place you can get this from is the bulwark mk-3 headgear, which can't be bought with commendations (though it can be a lucky drop from Kephess in story EC - but the chances are slim so we'll discount that as a viable source).

 

However, would you definately put that mod into a BiS piece? Would you prefer it over the Resilient Mod 26, which has more absorb at the cost of endurance?

 

If you balance it out in other places, it can be. It just depends on where you want certain stats to come from and how you need to balance your character.

[Larry_Dallas]

It would take an eternity to fix the crap itemization in mk 1 gear doing only group finder missions and the BH weekly. You'd need not only one of each armor piece for the armoring (some of which isn't even the right armoring), but you'd have to grind out multiples on top of that because half the DPS pieces have high-end/low-mainstat mods and the enhancements in most pieces have obscene levels of accuracy or alacrity. If 1/5 pieces has a perfect enhancement for your needs, consider yourself lucky.

[Obtena]

I've never denied the fact that some skill is involved. I'm just staying it's stupid to give the people without skill the same gear as the people with skill.

 

No one is 'giving' anything just to be clear ... whether you grind the gear or the credits, you have to earn that. Furthermore, the important point here is that I'm saying it doesn't matter if they give baddies access to gear. Baddies with or without gear are still bad.

[DiLune]

So much angst. BW announced they will be increasing the level cap to 55. The minute they did that the top end gear was devalued. BW is just allowing the non-operation players to catch up (2 months for full BH gear) essentially just in time for the next operation and level 55 to come out.

[Powerrmongerr]

The problem isn't that it's possible to earn BiS or near BiS gear from easier content. The problem is you get more than twice as many BH comms from doing BT HM than defeating jarg/sorno on nightmare or zorn and toth on story mode!

 

The OPs may be okay at 5 (still seems like a lot), but the FPs should award 2 and then have another weekly .. maybe if you do five of them in a week you get an extra six comms, or something like that.

Edited June 29, 2012 by Powerrmongerr

[Shiftyas]

The problem isn't that it's possible to earn BiS or near BiS gear from easier content. The problem is you get more than twice as many BH comms from doing BT HM than defeating jarg/sorno on nightmare or zorn and toth on story mode!

 

The OPs may be okay at 5 (still seems like a lot), but the FPs should award 2 and then have another weekly .. maybe if you do five of them in a week you get an extra six comms, or something like that.

 

I respect your position but disagree. The problem is definitely that you can earn BiS gear without running the hardest content. Yes, if they made it harder to get BM comms it would be less of a problem, but it would still be THE problem.

 

They have made it possible to get pretty much all BiS gear without setting foot in the hardest content (with a few exceptions) and then made it pretty easy to do so.

[rymah]

I respect your position but disagree. The problem is definitely that you can earn BiS gear without running the hardest content. Yes, if they made it harder to get BM comms it would be less of a problem, but it would still be THE problem.

 

They have made it possible to get pretty much all BiS gear without setting foot in the hardest content (with a few exceptions) and then made it pretty easy to do so.

 

But it's not actually BiS, statistically they are the same but unless you actually do HM EC or NP, you can't get the set bonuses that give the campaign set the edge, and even then the people gearing up because of the GF are stuck with the rakata primary / secondary. The fact that anyone, raider or not, can obtain black hole armor without actually having to do EC doesn't bother me in the slightest, and I like to raid, but I also like to have more chances to gear up than running the same instance every single time.

[Shiftyas]

But it's not actually BiS, statistically they are the same but unless you actually do HM EC or NP, you can't get the set bonuses that give the campaign set the edge, and even then the people gearing up because of the GF are stuck with the rakata primary / secondary. The fact that anyone, raider or not, can obtain black hole armor without actually having to do EC doesn't bother me in the slightest, and I like to raid, but I also like to have more chances to gear up than running the same instance every single time.

 

Ummmm... The Tionese/Columi/Rakata shells all hold the set bonus. You can just get any of this gear, chuck an augment kit on it and chuck full 61 mods in it. This can all be done without setting foot in HM EC. Sure you might miss a hilt for you MH/OH but that's only a couple stats. You can still fully mod your MH/OH with black hole gear, the only thing you need from the campaign gear is the hilt.

 

Sure there might be a few mods/enhancements that you can't get from black hole gear, but so far, from what I've seen, people that actually know what they're doing wouldn't want them.

 

At the end of the day, apart from a very very few mods, you can get pretty much all BiS without setting foot in HM EC.

Edited June 30, 2012 by Ellvaan
Avoiding the Language Filter

[TheRealCandyMan]

Ummmm... The Tionese/Columi/Rakata shells all hold the set bonus. You can just get any of this gear, chuck an augment kit on it and chuck full 61 mods in it. This can all be done without setting foot in HM EC. Sure you might miss a hilt for you MH/OH but that's only a couple stats. You can still fully mod your MH/OH with black hole gear, the only thing you need from the campaign gear is the hilt.

 

Sure there might be a few mods/enhancements that you can't get from black hole gear, but so far, from what I've seen, people that actually know what they're doing wouldn't want them.

 

At the end of the day, apart from a very very few mods, you can get pretty much all BiS without setting foot in HM EC.

 

Some people care about social armor. Not everyone wants to look the same.

Edited June 30, 2012 by Ellvaan
Quoted Removed Content

[Powerrmongerr]

I respect your position but disagree. The problem is definitely that you can earn BiS gear without running the hardest content. Yes, if they made it harder to get BM comms it would be less of a problem, but it would still be THE problem.

 

They have made it possible to get pretty much all BiS gear without setting foot in the hardest content (with a few exceptions) and then made it pretty easy to do so.

 

I don't think you really mean that. Unless you think crafting should be rendered obsolete by saying nobody should be able to craft end game material. Heck, as far as I know augmentation is available ONLY through crafting .. you don't have to set foot anywhere. Do you think that's fair to raiders? Isn't the extremely high pricetag enough of a barrier to entry.

 

Different paths to elite quality equipment is fine by me, I just think that the harder the difficulty, the greater the reward and the faster you gear up. Right now, that balance is WAY out of whack.

[Shiftyas]

Some people care about social armor. Not everyone wants to look the same.

 

And I respect that. If you want to look different then sweet, run HM EC to get the armorings you need.

 

What I'm saying is you shouldn't be able to get the same stats (or close to) without setting foot in the hardest content (which you can currently do)

[Shiftyas]

I don't think you really mean that. Unless you think crafting should be rendered obsolete by saying nobody should be able to craft end game material. Heck, as far as I know augmentation is available ONLY through crafting .. you don't have to set foot anywhere. Do you think that's fair to raiders? Isn't the extremely high pricetag enough of a barrier to entry.

 

Different paths to elite quality equipment is fine by me, I just think that the harder the difficulty, the greater the reward and the faster you gear up. Right now, that balance is WAY out of whack.

 

I'm sorry but I have no idea what you mean. When did crafting come into this? You're going to have to explain that a little bit clearer.

 

I'm against being able to craft augmentation kits, that's what this entire post is about.... You've really lost me.

 

Being able to pay for something that should take skill? Why would I support that?

[FuulishOne]

Okay maybe I responded in a huff, sorry about that. While I do get that you want to be awarded for your effort (of course everyone does) it's still a game that changes and evolves. Your example of being paid the same as someone else simply by showing up may piss you off, but it does occur in the real world. Following along that analogy, I think you should feel comfortable knowing that, even though these other folks can get their gear with less committed effort as you had put in, they will not have gained the experience you had. Which ultimately means, you should be better off then them when new (hopefully harder) content arrives.

 

MMOs aren't supposed to be stagnant things. You're on top because you got there first and beat the content, everyone else is playing catch up. BW just made it easier for folks to catch up.

 

There's a positive to this too. It means that when new content rolls out, you'll have many more geared players to do that content with, as opposed to having to do this "LFM HM:EC must be geared, blahblah" for an hour. The other positive is obviously for folks that are gearing up a second (or more) alt with campaign gear. It makes the whole legacy thing with alts viable without making people feel like it's an impossible grind to get their secondary characters up to snuff.

 

All I can say is, chill, try to enjoy the game and perhaps even help some of these folks get into EC since their gear will be better.

[IronmanSS]

Ummmm... The Tionese/Columi/Rakata shells all hold the set bonus. You can just get any of this gear, chuck an augment kit on it and chuck full 61 mods in it. This can all be done without setting foot in HM EC. Sure you might miss a hilt for you MH/OH but that's only a couple stats. You can still fully mod your MH/OH with black hole gear, the only thing you need from the campaign gear is the hilt.

 

Sure there might be a few mods/enhancements that you can't get from black hole gear, but so far, from what I've seen, people that actually know what they're doing wouldn't want them.

 

At the end of the day, apart from a very very few mods, you can get pretty much all BiS without setting foot in HM EC.

 

Don't forget the part where you can just lose 6 Rated WZs a day while you're doing your daily LFG FPs for BH comms and buy the WH mainhand and strip the 61 hilt(s) to get the campaign lvl primary dmg boost minus a few main stats.

Edited June 30, 2012 by Ellvaan
Quoted removed content