Yomitako Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Credit sinks are in there for a reason. There was a user that had posted this reasoning in another one of the threads here (can't remember which one or what the users name is, so if he's reading this I apologize in advance for not immediately giving you credit on your quote, but you'll know who you are.) Anyway, the reason why credit sinks are in this game, is so that it doesn't screw the economy over for new players and fresh alts. think about it, if respecs and mod removal and legacy items were free or at such a trivial cost, then there would be thousands upon thousands of players hoarding millions/billions of credits and nothing to spend it on. At that rate, people can charge whatever they want on the GTN and nobody will care, and will pay it without so much as a second thought. I would much prefer having it done this way. Yes it's a daily grind if you want the credits, but it's either this or a severely overinflated market. I'll take the former. Now that being said, I think if you do a little bit of math and apply it over a period of time, you'll see that the XP gains are actually a lot more beneficial than you give it credit for. Let's say over the course of 12 quests, every 33% of the way, the XP gain naturally increases as per progression guidelines should (in theory) normally dictate. So lets set arbitrary numbers at 4000 for the first 4 quests, 6000 for the next 4 quests, and 8000 for the last 4. At a global 30% boost to all XP gained from quests this pushes each number to 5200 for the first 4 quests, 7800 for the next 4 quests, and 10400 for the last 4 quests. So without the legacy perk, your initial quest experience gains would total 72,000 (not counting any mobs killed, codex entries picked up, etc.. This only totals the experience gained from the mission upon turning in). With the Legacy perk active, this increases your XP gain to 93600 experience. (21600 difference). This is a rough estimate on how things would work, and of course, numbers will vary depending on level and what quests you're doing. Plus take into consideration that there's still mob XP, map discovery XP, Codex entry XP, companion story XP to take into account. I didn't take PVP, Flashpoint or Space XP into this equation as they each have their own unlockable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XavinNydek Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Forgive me for saying so, but it sounds like the time spent on the "tech" for the field respec button could have been better spent on a dual spec interface that would have vastly more useful to - and more appreciated by - the community. The button's been there since beta, they just hid it right before live. A full Dual Spec system with gear sets is far more complex. That said, they have had plenty of time to get that done by now too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nadokaoh Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 cant wait for tuesday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galafray Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Patch 2.9 Legacy Upgrade: You asked for it so here it is! Want a fully Rakata geared level 70 toon? Pay 100mil credits and click that button... *** is this? The game has been out for less than a year and you are already falling into the 'have it all faster, bigger, NOW!' mentality that has screwed up Lotro - and you don't even have PtW yet. If the next patch is as asinine as this one I'll be the last of my original guild to say 'bye-bye'. This game is going to end up being as challenging as Farmville at this rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonoka Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Forgive me for saying so, but it sounds like the time spent on the "tech" for the field respec button could have been better spent on a dual spec interface that would have vastly more useful to - and more appreciated by - the community. Excuse me, but you do NOT speak for me, and I am part of the community....... I DO NOT WANT dual specs. I don't want to join a group to be told that i HAVE to respec to X just because I can. That is BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VisceRogue Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 So far the only useful thing for me at lvl50 appears to be crew skill crit % increase (please let this be significant because i have horrid luck atm), and the in-the-field respec. The biggest problem with respeccing --- especially as a PVE tank / DPS everything else Powertech --- is that if you respec too often (more than once a week) then you start to get absolutely gouged by respec prices. Please shorten the respec CD or make it a flat rate. It's making me not want to raid PVE anymore because DPS is my preferred spec! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kissakias Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 so the 1.3 is only those legacy and char perks ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugattiboy Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) The legacy system failing again? It's EA so, meh, what else is new? Edited June 22, 2012 by Bugattiboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arodin Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) The problem with the credit costs is that this system is designed to favor players who like to play alts, and players who like to play alts hardly earn any credits at all -- it all gets spent on skill training, speeders, crew skills, etc. Players who like to play their level 50 characters earn lots of credits, but these perks will not appeal to them -- there's nothing here that is a benefit in Warzones or Operations. So you have a system in which the people who would enjoy it can't afford it, and the people who can afford it won't like it. Good job. Edited June 22, 2012 by Arodin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lameln Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 "while most Global Unlocks can be earned through normal play or can alternately be purchased for credits, Character Perks can only be purchased using in-game credits" Stop feeding us this line, it's patently false. Apart from the social unlocks (which have no real value) and the valor unlocks (again, no value) everything but the light side/dark side stuff can ONLY be purchased with money. Considering sacrifice at least used to be a trained ability for inquisitors...yeah, nothing of value is unlocked in the legacy without paying large sums of credits Developers don't seem to understand why this specifically hamstrings people who level lots of alts. When you're playing a character that's level 10, 20, 30 - you don't make much money, and the credits you do make are mostly taken up by training costs. However, if you sit on your one level 50 character and do dailies you make a ton of money. The perks are an even bigger blunder now than the global unlocks. Every single character will gain value from some of them (crafting crit, quick pass to black hole so we don't have to deal with the long load time through Correllia, etc.) but the more characters you have the more you'll have to pay. If you have 8 characters getting even just the more useful legacy perks will bankrupt even the more hardcore players. TL;DR - Legacy was built to create an incentive to level alts, however the exorbitantly high credit costs that are required for essentially EVERY useful legacy bonus strictly favor people who DON'T level alts, and thus are in better position to afford them. I was so happy during the beta days when the devs would talk to us and explain their reasoning behind systems they put in place. These days it seems that patch after patch is filled with stuff that SHOULD be good, but is poorly designed. Why do they need such insane money sinks everywhere? Do they not realize that character-by-character unlocks that aren't tied to legacy level and cost tons of credits just AREN'T FUN? I'm an altoholic and this announcement made me feel like "crap, better go run a ton more dailies" instead of feeling EXCITED for new stuff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lameln Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 So you have a system in which the people who would enjoy it can't afford it, and the people who can afford it won't like it. Good job. QFT! Devs, please, this is so obviously faulty. At LEAST make the perks Legacy-wide. This isn't "customization of each character" - it's a blatant credit sink that screws over people who roll alts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrackenOne Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Name is William Wallace. Epic. Win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthZaul Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 (edited) They still haven't provided an acceptable justification of the credit costs. If you have 8 characters getting even just the more useful legacy perks will bankrupt even the more hardcore players. TL;DR - Legacy was built to create an incentive to level alts, however the exorbitantly high credit costs that are required for essentially EVERY useful legacy bonus strictly favor people who DON'T level alts, and thus are in better position to afford them. Between the credits and needing legacy 25 it makes you have to play your 50 for a very long time before doing an alt. I don't understand why Bioware refuse to acknowledge that they are wrong in this. All the forums posters agree, the fan sites agree, Dulfy probably agrees. Their 'metrics' even agree that no one has that much money. Edited June 23, 2012 by DarthZaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithre Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 At the second rank of the perk, the Droid carries a full range of adrenals and medpacs Unless I'm missing something, on the PTS, the second level of the field droid only carries medpacs and warzone adrenals. Is this (full range of adrenals) something that will change in a later build of 1.3? Or did this comment gloss over the details? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lhhgbh Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Need to add more character slots.. That is all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deewe Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 (edited) Advancement Perks Can we please have a stop/slow down XP? Because as soon as we do any other content than PvE only (and even) we outlevel PVE quests. Travel Perks Cooldowns are way too long and yet we don't have the most needed perk: ........Recall to space ship Companion Perks Price is still bit too expansive vs what we can get on the AH. Convenience Perks Still can't get access to the GTN from anywhereEmail yet not as convenient as in what we had 8 years ago in SWG Field respec perk is very expansive without any price reduction. The Legacy system will continue to improve and expand beyond Game Update 1.3. Our team is constantly looking at new ways of enhancing the experience for all of your Legacy characters, as well as providing new conveniences and fun little perks for everyone in your family tree. Sadly the legacy perks are still a huge money sink aimed at hardcore players. We let you know what we thing in the PTS, especially that people don't want to pay twice for perks. Either make it tied to legacy levels or credits, be it for 1.3 or 1,2 perks. Many players also want to be able to change their legacy name. And not less would like to have last names separated from legacy titles. We all know it's a quick win, so not a matter of time nor cost to implement it. From the recent infos looks like you want to make people pay to be able to change their legacy name or get the cool legacy perks as for now most of them aren't that good. Edited June 23, 2012 by Deewe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oMGitsree Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Its absolutely unfathomable why the legacy costs money in the first place. WHy even bother having a legacy system at all? This doesn't promote leveling legacy. It would have been nice IF each legacy level would unlock something without having to pay for every upgrade and they are OBSCENE prices at that. You want the ultra awesome thing it should be unlocked by the ultra awesome legacy level. Instead its just "oh well you unlocked legacy level 10 that's good enough as long as you give me 10 million credits" ... BLARGH... Such a waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCesca Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 The only thing I took from this entire post: William Wallace. FREEEEEEEEEEEDOOOOOOOOOOM I can't not hear his name in a Scottish accent in my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raencloud Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 These changes completely fail the intent of a Legacy. This feature was pitched to us as a reward for playing the game and creating multiple characters. Not only has the Legacy level meant next to nothing, but the associated credit costs have made it a necessity to spend weeks farming in order to purchase them for each new character you wish to create if you would even like to take advantage of the added perks. I am completely disappointed and feel misled yet again from your development team. Doing repetitive daily quests and farming for credits just to enjoy the game is a time sink, and they are certainly not fun. Please stop adding unnecessary time sinks to your game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignicity Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 (edited) Why is this feature part of the legacy system if it has nothing to do with legacy? Another poor design choice by Bioware. These should have been server wide unlocks instead of what they are now; a really bad credit sink. Thanks for continuing to ignore us, Bioware. Edited June 23, 2012 by Ignicity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gafferoo Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Legacy Character Perks sounds like an oxymoron to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LG_XxLegacyxX Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Its absolutely unfathomable why the legacy costs money in the first place. WHy even bother having a legacy system at all? This doesn't promote leveling legacy. It would have been nice IF each legacy level would unlock something without having to pay for every upgrade and they are OBSCENE prices at that. You want the ultra awesome thing it should be unlocked by the ultra awesome legacy level. Instead its just "oh well you unlocked legacy level 10 that's good enough as long as you give me 10 million credits" ... BLARGH... Such a waste. Agree 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vespassian Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 That repair droid is going to come in handy first thing I will buy. Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiabloDoom Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 OMG you mean I can't buy everything instantly because it doesn't come cheap? WTH BW??? Seriously people, obtaining credits in this game is ridiculously easy, can make a million in a matter of hours, and who the hell says you've to get everything immediately, finally, something that will take some time to complete, kudos BW, kudos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 (edited) Can we please have a stop/slow down XP? Because as soon as we do any other content than PvE only (and even) we outlevel PVE quests. You could just still do the quests you know. Or...why not control how much you do, this way you don't out level anything? You don't need a button or whatever to slow/stop XP....you just need to control what you do. Edited June 23, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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