jgelling Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) No one actually thinks a space game is going to get 10 million subs? I feel like sci-fi in general might be in a bit of a slump. The entertainment market has been flooded by vampires and medieval fantasy stuff in recent years: Twilight, Vampire Diaries, Game of Thrones, Teen Wolf, True Blood, whatever. Don't get me wrong though - I'm sure a good space game would be an improvement, but I think it'd be a super small one compared to even a single tiny tidbit of new story. I'll never get tired of saying episodic story additions are the most important thing to keep people hooked on a story-driven MMO. Login to find out Mako's deep dark secret in the latest episode, e.g., is much more convincing than "Mako misses you running dailies for her." Edited June 21, 2012 by jgelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiabloDoom Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 "P2P AAA MMO" . . . that better? Moreover, quoting the entire population isn't very useful. What is useful is quoting the largest subscriber base a "P2P AAA MMO" has achieved (i.e. the largest share of the pie). And that number is 5.5 million US/EU subs at WoW's peak. With today's plentiful competition, do you really (like the OP) think a MMO can DOUBLE that record? Why just P2P and what is AAA? But no I do not really think like the OP thinks, especially since I've already said earlier about the 10% Sci-fi population out of that 22million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomyne Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Anyway, the point being, space revamp would most likely be the final nail in the coffin for this game, not some savior. How can it be the final nail when the game is otherwise perfect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossesman Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 SWG space was awesome, until you had to take 4 shuttles to get back to where you left your ship. Having a full crew YT-1300 was awesome, though for PvP I saw more than a fair share of other people on Tempest, but they always outgeared me and I went down in flames. The way the Hero Engine tends to get real laggy when a bunch of people start fighting up close, I dont know if it could handle a 20v20 dogfight. Though it wouldnt be as gfx intense since there would be fewer skills being used/particle effects. Being able to take a guild capital ship into battle with a fighter escort would definitely get me back in space. SWG space was good fun but it had its flaws. Mostly how some ships were useless, interceptor ships were fotm, and if your opponent had 0.000001 more pitch on his engine then that is a huge advantage. If something similar was implemented for TOR then i hope these will be looked at Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nadokaoh Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) quickest way to 10mill offer china 7cents a hour subs and since its based on time played not days we can count them as long as they have play time on their account Edited June 21, 2012 by nadokaoh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 ......wait for it..........Space. Huh... I don't quite get your reasoning for that prediction, nor do I agree with it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degarmo Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Bringing meaningful world PvP with control points and takeable fortress-type areas on each planet with galaxy-wide rewards for taking and holding said points would go a long way for this game as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarjarloves Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 "P2P AAA MMO" . . . that better? Moreover, quoting the entire population isn't very useful. What is useful is quoting the largest subscriber base a "P2P AAA MMO" has achieved (i.e. the largest share of the pie). And that number is 5.5 million US/EU subs at WoW's peak. With today's plentiful competition, do you really (like the OP) think a MMO can DOUBLE that record? who ever said it had to be US subs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattgyver Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 hope springs eternal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquidacid Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) At WoW's peak, they had around 5.5 million US/EU subscribers, and at a time of little competition. So it's logical to assume that around 5 million US/EU subscribers is as much as a P2P mmo can hope to achieve (and that would require stealing half of WoW subs + tons of subs from other games). Do you understand the logic? Mentioning the population of the US is useless. The best figure is the highest US/EU subs any P2P mmo has achieved and that should be assumed to be about the ceiling. that would make sense if it weren't for reality and we ignored the fact that since MMOs went mainstream there are MANY MORE MMO players total today that there where when WoW peaked... in fact I'd bet there are more MMO players right now that DON"T played WoW when it was at peak then saying you would need to steal subs from WoW.. lmao... there are many many many more than 5 million total subs to all triple A MMOs together right NOW without "stealing" any from each other... I know this may be a shocker but people can sub to more than one game... and again the pool of MMO players is much much more than it was when WoW peaked so again your point is illogical a little common sense can go a long way I'm not saying this game will get 10 mill just that your assertion that no game can go over 5.5 million as that is the total number of MMO players because it's what WoW had at peak is incredibly absurd Edited June 21, 2012 by Liquidacid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediRaffa Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Although I do not agree that we will ever see 10 million subs in an already saturated MMO market, I do agree that with careful planning and creativity from BW specific to "space", SWTOR can be taken to an entirely different level than any other MMO out there. Here are some of my ideas to elevate the gameplay: 1) First and foremost, completely ditch the rail space combat they have now. Open space travel with complete X,Y,Z axis movement (Like Homeworld.) 2) Make customizable ships. Not the one we use for general space travel. Real combat ships like an X-Wing fighter, Y-Wing, etc... Customize to the "T" with weapons, armor, shields (better than what they have now) and also allow augmenting or mix & match parts of your ship (example, longer wing on the X wing or perhaps a different looking engine drive) Just make it so that we can make our ships look awesome and personalized. Change colors, add detailing (flames or lightning on the side) scoring on the hull after heavy blaster fights. There is so much potential here 3) Operations (raids) : a. Battle for Endor - Create a 20 man PvE operations (40 or more if hero can handle it!) so that you can split up your team into 2. One team in space, other team on the ground. Ground troops need to advance, take over strategic areas to lower the shields so that the capital ships in space and land on Endor. In space, commendeer a fleet of 1 man x-wings (or whatever ships available) and mid size to capital ships. You assign 1 man per fighter craft, maybe 2-3 per mid range ship and 10 on the capital ship. Fight off advancing crafts. Make objectives that would give your ground troops certain advantages (example - take out cruiser that is blasting away at the ground troop drop ships in order to continue soldier / crate supplies.) Make "boss" battles in both space and air. Example, AT-AT on ground or perhaps sith lord stationed at the energy shield depot. I can go on and on!! b. Battle of Hoth - Take Empire Strikes back and bring it to like in a 20 man PvE operation. Republic would control snow speeders with 2 men per speeder. Assign a ground patrol to advance on incoming AT AT's (ala Luke Skywalker style!!!) Assign team to control ION Cannons and defend base from advancing forces !! Protect Princess XXXX underground from Darth so and so!! c. Death Star run - Need I say more ? Send a convey of ships to board the deathstar to disable its shields, then fly back out. "Red 5 standing by!", "Get set-up for your attack run !!" 4) See #3 but instead of making it an Operation, make it a battleground !! Have republic and imperials go at it with similiar objectives as above in PVP style action!!! Commandeer a massive AT AT as imperial and advance with awesome firepower on republic troops. Pilot a snow speeder and take out incoming AT AT's using your harpoon cable!!! Ride Taun Tauns into battle! 5) No Tab targeting in space combat. Enough said. It has to be like X-wing vs Tie fighter with crosshairs. Also, use a headset to give your R2 unit voice commands !! "repair shields", "power up shields", "power up torpedos", "I've lost R2!!!", "Can't Shake'em!" (which barrel rolls!). Customize your R2 unit ! Fly in formations to add tactical advantages. 6) Music - come on guys this is freakin Star Wars. Pump up the music and often! Dont give me space battles with dead air in between. I want heart pumping music the entire way. 7) NPC ships for more strategic back drop. Defend ship A from being destroyed in order to make the battle more epic (without lagging out the server with real time players) Apply same concept everywhere, like on Hoth or Endor, etc.... I have so many ideas to make the space combat epic. This is where SWTOR can become the giant MMO that we have all envisioned. Please Bioware make it happen. Or you can simply retain my services as a DEV and I will make it happen for you !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarfux Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I agree and I think the super secret space project is just that. Something very epic and awesome that will make everyone's jaw drop on the floor. Knowing BioWare, they are probably working on something so great for space that it will upstage EVERYTHING and make it look last generation. The future of this game will have 10 million plus subs. As I have been saying from the beginning it will. People just need to give it time and realize that things are coming together. When they do, it will skyrocket and take off when people see the things coming in and changing. More planets, open space pvp, guild ships, capital ship battles. This game will be number one in the world if they do it right. Mark my words Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatebomb Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Oh please. Adding some deeply involved space stuff like you're suggestin not only isn't really feasible it certainly won't add 10x the current subs even if they did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarfux Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Oh please. Adding some deeply involved space stuff like you're suggestin not only isn't really feasible it certainly won't add 10x the current subs even if they did it. Not right away. But the game will keep growing. You'll see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronium Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 5) No Tab targeting in space combat. Enough said. It has to be like X-wing vs Tie fighter with crosshairs. Also, use a headset to give your R2 unit voice commands !! "repair shields", "power up shields", "power up torpedos", "I've lost R2!!!", "Can't Shake'em!" (which barrel rolls!). Customize your R2 unit ! Fly in formations to add tactical advantages. Umm XvT has tab targeting it's set to a different key but tab really is the best spot for it especially now because of MMO's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgelling Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I agree and I think the super secret space project is just that. Something very epic and awesome that will make everyone's jaw drop on the floor. Knowing BioWare, they are probably working on something so great for space that it will upstage EVERYTHING and make it look last generation. The future of this game will have 10 million plus subs. As I have been saying from the beginning it will. People just need to give it time and realize that things are coming together. When they do, it will skyrocket and take off when people see the things coming in and changing. More planets, open space pvp, guild ships, capital ship battles. This game will be number one in the world if they do it right. Mark my words Really? I mean that'd be fantastic, but in the back of my mind I stil remember the space mini-game they had in both KOTOR and KOTOR 2 - the same garbage except you could skip it in the sequel. I can't imagine why you think they'd be able to revolutionize things with some sort of flight game? It's not like that's their strength - they're known for storytelling and cinematics, not amazing physics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatebomb Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Not right away. But the game will keep growing. You'll see I respect your optimism but pity your naivety. I don't think this game is failing per se but I think it settles at 250-500k subs. Which is fairly successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smuglebunny Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I think this game WAS failing, but they really want to make it successful and they are trying. So Im gonna give the benefit of the doubt and play on cuz I love Star Wars. Runescape is an 11 year old game and it keeps on truckin. Peaked at 7 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronium Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Really? I mean that'd be fantastic, but in the back of my mind I stil remember the space mini-game they had in both KOTOR and KOTOR 2 - the same garbage except you could skip it in the sequel. I can't imagine why you think they'd be able to revolutionize things with some sort of flight game? It's not like that's their strength - they're known for storytelling and cinematics, not amazing physics. It's not very good to use an outdated example when you can play there rail shooter, Sure it's not the best model to use for a MMO but it is still a great rail shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgelling Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) It's not very good to use an outdated example when you can play there rail shooter, Sure it's not the best model to use for a MMO but it is still a great rail shooter. Sure, the Starfox clone is better than the KOTOR stuff, but I was just saying in all their games I don't think we've seen anything to believe they're capable/willing to build some immersive, revolutionary space combat game. If they could do anything like that, seems to me they'd release it as a standalone game. They've said they have something in the works, and I bet it's some multiplayer feature to the same basic system we have now. Of course they've described it as unimaginably awesome, but I'd bet that's the core of what they'd hope to add. I could be wrong but I don't think they committed themselves to doing anything with space this year though, at least in their E3 stuff? Or have they? Edited June 21, 2012 by jgelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elboc Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I actually agree with the OP. SWG was held on for months if not years simply for the space game. It was awesome. In my opinion and many others, the land game was pretty blah save crafting and roleplaying, but the space game.. Ah the space game. It was freaking awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lobotaru Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 No, what they need to do is fulfill the promises they had about the game at launch. Like making it actually story driven and not just another MMO with a story. Our choices should effect what our character will be doing and where that character will be going. Our efforts should cause perceived changes, for good or ill, in the game world. Something like the phasing zones in WoW except that what the world turns into depends on the actions of the character (light or dark), and not into one predetermined form. When the dialogue at the end of a mission says that imperial assassins are now after you, that should mean imperial assassins are now coming after your character. In turn, that should mean a change in the game world for that character. A new zone, a unique quest path, new companions and story options. If they lived up to their promise of a story driven game, that would bring people back, as it would create the drive to play the game all the way to the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronium Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Sure, the Starfox clone is better than the KOTOR stuff, but I was just saying in all their games I don't think we've seen anything to believe they're capable/willing to build some immersive, revolutionary space combat game. If they could do anything like that, seems to me they'd release it as a standalone game. It doesn't need to be revolutionary they just need to clone a good space game like rogue squadron, wing commander, or freespace and then modify it to work for a MMO setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronium Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 No, what they need to do is fulfill the promises they had about the game at launch. Like making it actually story driven and not just another MMO with a story. Our choices should effect what our character will be doing and where that character will be going. Our efforts should cause perceived changes, for good or ill, in the game world. Something like the phasing zones in WoW except that what the world turns into depends on the actions of the character (light or dark), and not into one predetermined form. When the dialogue at the end of a mission says that imperial assassins are now after you, that should mean imperial assassins are now coming after your character. In turn, that should mean a change in the game world for that character. A new zone, a unique quest path, new companions and story options. If they lived up to their promise of a story driven game, that would bring people back, as it would create the drive to play the game all the way to the end. That doesn't happen in video games period. I don't know why you would even expect them to even try doing that in TOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerosaint Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) 10 Million subs? Never say never... but not bloody likely. That 750k subs unsubstantiated quote is honestly far more likely based on observational evidence. And honestly that's survivable, but SWTOR is most likely not going to be even close to being "The Juggernaut". of the MMO world. EA/BW shot that possibility in the balls. Edited June 21, 2012 by zerosaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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