TheGreatFrosty Posted June 20, 2012 Author Share Posted June 20, 2012 Pyrotech PTs deal burst damage by dumping their resources with DPS cooldowns (relic, adrenals, and explosive fuel) active. The adrenal nerf will have a larger effect on this burst damage then on tanks, healers, and sustained DPSers (like annihilation marauders) 1.2 had a nerf to the pyro tree. Specifically the rail shot reset was given an internal cooldown so as to have it occur no more than once every 6 seconds. In 1.1 it was possible to have rail shot be over 30% of all your damage attacks, this is much lower now, and heat management for the pyro took a substantial hit. The pyro is a glass cannon class with no escape mechanic. If it dealt less damage there would be no reason to bring it over a marauder that needs to be killed 3 times before it dies or a sniper that can achieve the same damage numbers from 35m away. I'm getting a strange sense of Deja Vu with these threads that want to focus on the first 15 seconds out of every 3 minutes. Glass cannon... I absolutely bet you haven't played sage, gunslinger or scoundrel at 50. You don't know the meaning of the phrase. You're a DPS, accept the fact that you're going to take the punches as well as give them. Stop thinking it's unique to just your class. Talk about De ja vu, it seems there are a few things about powertech's simplicity that allure a certain player to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frunzenshnapp Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Stop thinking it's unique to just your class. Talk about De ja vu, it seems there are a few things about powertech's simplicity that allure a certain player to it. nuff said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathid Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 What's funny is that they lowered the armor penetration of scoundre/Op's but left it in on the class's that have heavy armor and ranged DPS,,,it doesnt make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BendakStarkiller Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 They've already nerfed Pyro twice. They most likely won't directly nerf pyro, instead they're going to attempt to dub down spike dps. First it was the surge nerf, then it was the PPA proc and now they are taking away more spike from the relics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTPRO Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Who the hell needs escape mechanics when you can just **** your opponents? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheronFett Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 More QQ from melee regarding Powertechs? Check. At some point, you guys are going to need to learn to play your own class instead of whining about others. Let's say Powertechs get nerfed to the ground and are rendered near useless. Then what? Who's next on the chopping block? Snipers. Then the other ranged classes. And why? Because you saber swingers can't get it through your little heads that you are NOT an alpha class just because you saw Obi Wan owning newbs. This is NOT the movies. Get over it. After you've burned your leap or popped out of stealth, you melee classes are cannon fodder. You have to walk around at reduced combat speed chasing down your targets trying to position yourselves, while we just stand 30m away and burn you down. That's the REAL issue here. All these tears shed over different classes being OP, and it all boils down to lack of fundamental understanding of how to play as a team and knowing your role. It's that simple. I have a Powertech tank, and a Vanguard DPS. I also have a Warrior DPS and Guardian tank. There is a serious difference in how those classes play, yet I manage to top the charts in every warzone I'm in because I've figured out that some classes have different roles. If you guys can't figure it out for yourselves, just quit the game. Go back to WoW or Xbox Live. Good grief... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatFrosty Posted June 20, 2012 Author Share Posted June 20, 2012 (edited) More QQ from melee regarding Powertechs? Check. At some point, you guys are going to need to learn to play your own class instead of whining about others. Let's say Powertechs get nerfed to the ground and are rendered near useless. Then what? Who's next on the chopping block? Snipers. Then the other ranged classes. And why? Because you saber swingers can't get it through your little heads that you are NOT an alpha class just because you saw Obi Wan owning newbs. This is NOT the movies. Get over it. After you've burned your leap or popped out of stealth, you melee classes are cannon fodder. You have to walk around at reduced combat speed chasing down your targets trying to position yourselves, while we just stand 30m away and burn you down. That's the REAL issue here. All these tears shed over different classes being OP, and it all boils down to lack of fundamental understanding of how to play as a team and knowing your role. It's that simple. I have a Powertech tank, and a Vanguard DPS. I also have a Warrior DPS and Guardian tank. There is a serious difference in how those classes play, yet I manage to top the charts in every warzone I'm in because I've figured out that some classes have different roles. If you guys can't figure it out for yourselves, just quit the game. Go back to WoW or Xbox Live. Good grief... I'm pretty sure you've read the post, and then made up for yourself what it said. At no point did I mention I was a melee or suggest that to be the issue, I have the following classes : Sage Gunslinger Scoundrel Sentinel (though not at 50) May as well mention it now to avoid all the predictable "OMG JTUST ANOTEHR OPERATIVE TRYING TO KEEP US PTS DOWN LOZL" Not that I don't appreciate a Star Wars' movie reference, but how on earth do you believe that to be relevant here? Edited June 20, 2012 by TheGreatFrosty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blasphemerr Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 In every game that has or will ever exist most players will select classes that have a perceived edge/role. This should be expected. Most humans are competitive and everyone who chooses to engage in player vs. player combat is competitive. So as you continue to nerf classes people view as having an edge all you're doing is moving them from one class to another--or worse they just quit the game entirely. Address the problem, not the symptom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razacc Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 mmmmmm Your tears are delicious.... Tell me, what is so simplistic about the Pyrotech rotation compared to other classes? It has the same management as every other class. You cannot simply faceroll flameburst and railshot and expect to be successful. Building up great burst takes timing and quickness that can be ruin at any moment or error. Not to mention every defensive cool down, taunt, and guard can mitigate railshot's effectiveness. Eliminate pyro's burst and you will have a useless class with little survivability. Learn to play as a team. Some classes are strong and weak against against Powertechs. Know your strengths and weaknesses. I know mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humankeg Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 (edited) Everyone (except some silly PTs) knows that PTs need damage reduction. AND... This HAS to happen BEFORE ranked WZs start live. The concern is that Bioware seems incapable of reacting on this. Don't worry about the PT trolls who will try and blast this thread into oblivion. They are just trying to keep their place at the top of the pile as long as possible (regardless of sensibilities). Damange reduction isn't needed. Maybe moving damage to other abilities would be ok. Btw, nerf the damage, need to buff survivability, utilty, or both. PT's have great burst and really good damage overall, but horrible survivability, pretty bad utility. Assassins and marauders though, have good burst, great survivability, great utility, and good(assassin) and great (marauder) damage overall. Edited June 20, 2012 by Humankeg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snaplemouton Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 I saw a Pyrotech kill a half war hero half battlemaster sage in 2 seconds flat. The time of his AE stun. Didn't even have time to medical probe the poor sage. Clearly pyrotech is balanced and their damage is totally fine. That's exactly why everyone plays pyrotech. I don't even know the 2 other specs name since no one plays them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razacc Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 I saw a Pyrotech kill a half war hero half battlemaster sage in 2 seconds flat. The time of his AE stun. Didn't even have time to medical probe the poor sage. Clearly pyrotech is balanced and their damage is totally fine. That's exactly why everyone plays pyrotech. I don't even know the 2 other specs name since no one plays them. I have an AP and a Shieldtech in my guild. AP is great especially when used in combo with pyro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laforet Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Pyrotechs are a faceroll class that takes almost no skill to play. They have the highest PvP damage output in the game with little to no preparation. Both bursted and sustained. They scale very well with gear (on the contrary of other classes that scales very poorly with gear, especially sages). They have a slow blend in their most usable attacks, ptechs slow people without wasting resources or time. They dont even have to think about it. "BANG, SLOWED DEAD. IM PRO". They are pretty much unstopable once they decide someone has to die. You cant kite them with all the slows, they kill you in melee or ranged, it doesnt matter (their optimal range is 10m, but they can do damage AND slow at 30m). They are not a glass cannon. They are a heavy armor class with ****** slows (hello kittie) and a 25% damage reduction cooldown. Contrary to popular ptech ranting, they almost never go out of resources if they are well played. There are 2 ways a ptech will go out of resources, by spamming incendiary round OR by spamming their point blank AoE, those 2 abilities will never be spammed by a competent pyrotech so a competent pyrotech WILL NOT run out of ammo. Anyone can do damage with a ptech. There is no way you can mess up with their rotation. Even mediocre players will get the job done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthRaika Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 My main prob with ptech is just that the class was the least popular class. I mean who wants to be a bounty hunter with only 1 gun? It is very very obvious why they are so popular now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eggsbacon Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Since the server merge my assault vanguard has been atleast doubling the damage output of any other DPS in my wz's. Eat that OP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humankeg Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I saw a Pyrotech kill a half war hero half battlemaster sage in 2 seconds flat. The time of his AE stun. Didn't even have time to medical probe the poor sage. Clearly pyrotech is balanced and their damage is totally fine. That's exactly why everyone plays pyrotech. I don't even know the 2 other specs name since no one plays them. No, no you didn't. What you saw was either: * a fight that lasted much longer then 2 seconds * more than just the pyro bursting this sage down. With 1100 expertise, against a target with 18000 life (about what a half BM half WH player has), and against 1100 expertise, RS would hit for about 3.5k-4.5k (x2), TD would be 3.5k-4.5k, and a tick of IM would be about 800-1k. This is all with full CD's going . And that takes over two seconds btw. If you are going to exagerate, please do so in at least a SLIGHTLY convincing manner. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humankeg Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 They scale very well with gear (on the contrary of other classes that scales very poorly with gear, especially sages). . IS this why sages/sorcs and marauders are KILLING most other classes in the majority of fights (pve)? Yes, I know you are talking pvp here, but scaling issues are the same regardless of what type of fight it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invictusthetaru Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 No, no you didn't. What you saw was either: * a fight that lasted much longer then 2 seconds * more than just the pyro bursting this sage down. With 1100 expertise, against a target with 18000 life (about what a half BM half WH player has), and against 1100 expertise, RS would hit for about 3.5k-4.5k (x2), TD would be 3.5k-4.5k, and a tick of IM would be about 800-1k. This is all with full CD's going . And that takes over two seconds btw. If you are going to exagerate, please do so in at least a SLIGHTLY convincing manner. Thanks. Much longer, so six seconds right? Lol. I'm not going to comment on if they are OP or not, but a good PT / vanguard can kill light to medium armor wearers in 6 seconds, 8 if they have a bubble up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I think PT does have some disproportional high bursts but I think with relics/adrenal nerfed it'd probably stop some of the craziest burst possible. As a Tankasin it feels like sometimes I auto lose if they get lucky with their crits, and if they didn't get lucky they auto lose against me. There's really no skill involved. There's like a certain % of crit they have to beat to beat me. It's a number higher than their base crit % but obviously they do win that game sometime and there's no fun losing or winning either way. Marauders are a tougher matchup but against them I don't feel like it's just a matter of who got lucky with crits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenlo Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) Give melee classes abilities that reflect certain ranged damage. Lightsaber wielder's are supposedly able to reflect blaster bolts, right? /thread Edited June 21, 2012 by Lenlo meh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shredzz Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) I'm pretty sure you've read the post, and then made up for yourself what it said. At no point did I mention I was a melee or suggest that to be the issue, I have the following classes : Sage Gunslinger Scoundrel Sentinel (though not at 50) May as well mention it now to avoid all the predictable "OMG JTUST ANOTEHR OPERATIVE TRYING TO KEEP US PTS DOWN LOZL" Not that I don't appreciate a Star Wars' movie reference, but how on earth do you believe that to be relevant here? I bet you are a sage that thinks he should be able to live anything without needing guard I bet you are a gunslinger that doesnt entrench fast enough so i cant stun and **** you with my railshot(cause cover counters railshot) I bet you are a scoundrel who doesnt dispel my dots so i cant railshot nuff said Edited June 21, 2012 by Shredzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gidoru Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I fully agree with you OP. The sad thing is that despite the effort you have made to squash the typical and false defender comments this thread will simply have a continual stream of people repeating the same things over and over because they are incapable of understanding simple reasoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gidoru Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) I bet you are a sage that doesnt dispel my dots so i cant railshot I bet you are a gunslinger that doesnt entrench fast enough so i cant stun and **** you with my railshot(cause cover counters railshot) I bet you are a scoundrel who doesnt dispel my dots so i cant railshot nuff said I bet you are someone that fails to realize that sages cannont dispel Powertech dots. nuff said Edited June 21, 2012 by Gidoru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatFrosty Posted June 21, 2012 Author Share Posted June 21, 2012 I bet you are a sage that doesnt dispel my dots so i cant railshot I bet you are a gunslinger that doesnt entrench fast enough so i cant stun and **** you with my railshot(cause cover counters railshot) I bet you are a scoundrel who doesnt dispel my dots so i cant railshot nuff said Oh dear. One of these. A sage cannot dispel tech DOTs. Even if they could, a cleanse is 1 GCD, if I spent 1 GCD not fighting the Powertech then I'm already dead, regardless of what I do (with the exception of kite and fight) Yes I do entrench. Yes I do cleanse, see as above. Must be the worst reply to this thread so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxxParadoxxx Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I bet you are a sage that doesnt dispel my dots so i cant railshot I bet you are a gunslinger that doesnt entrench fast enough so i cant stun and **** you with my railshot(cause cover counters railshot) I bet you are a scoundrel who doesnt dispel my dots so i cant railshot nuff said I bet you'r one of those people who thought sorc's were OP. See how i can make asumptions. I don't see the justification in giving a heavy armor class the best burst in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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