Oredith, seriosly, you're not doing yourself any favours. Right now after a bunch of your posts, you come across as a nooby guy, with a massive ego, who discovered, that even he can play the spec. Stuff you say about escapes and all that is also not very smart. For example: leg shot breaks on damage. you can run with it, but you can't kite. Generally speaking: your opinion on vanguards in pvp is not particulary valuable. you just don't play enough. level at least 2 other dps ac's in pvp to at least lvl 35 (preferably to 50), check out ranked warzones, play some more pvp, then you'll be the guy to listen to. The aformentioned GreatFrosty, shines on every character he plays (850k damages on a gunslinger, 1 mil heals on scoundrels etc.), he's got 3 lvl 50 characters valor rank 70 each, etc... Can you see, how his opinion is more valid than yours? Bunch of PT's running around and spitting L2p at people, just won't work. everyone knows, that PT's are op, most of the people kinda know why they're OP, so the question at this point is not if PT's are a bit too much, but what to do with them. All in all: stop l2p BS, stop "pt's are easy 1v1" arguments. Not smart. Not helpful. EDIT: About the post: the idea of adding some tricks to the rotation, while nerfing the core move, seems to work for commandos. Crappy players are now blatantly crappy with the missile spam gone, good players still do good numbers. ??????????? PROFIT

People, do not worry, nerf is coming. The most successful ranked teams me and my mates play against, consist of 2 operative healers, 2 assassin tanks, 3 pyros and a marauder. And this team combo is almost impossible to counter. Organised PVP will reveal all the issues with balance that exist at the moment. That's why it's called pre-season. And Pyros will be the first thing to get nerfed, no doubt.

It's not too much to ask, is it?

Hello. All those class balance discussions on the forums got me thinking. There's no better way of finding an overpowered specs, than to observe the population numbers. So my request is as follows: dear Bioware employees, can you please publish ANY population statistics at all. I'm especially interested in population dynamics. For some reason after 1.2 patch in every warzone i play both in 50 and 10-49 brackets, i meet 2 to 5 PT's. Can you please explain such rapid population growth of one particular class in one particular spec? Or can you show us that there is no growth at all.

nuff said

To be honest, BW, acknowledging the problem, would've been partly a solution. People would've at least stopped rolling more PT's.

I say go for both:)

Just had a very fun wz agains 4 pyro pt's, 3 shadow tanks and a mercenary healer. haven't seen any of this pt's before. Each did about 500k dps. That's all the metrics i need. Reminds me of agent Smith populating the matrix. Come on people. There is definitely something wrong with that class...

EXACTLY! Yes! Everybody just keeps going through same stupid OP,not OP, L2P steps.

Ok, i guess, both sides of this argument are pretty clear, we all said what we think, it's up to BW to decide. My bet bet is, that they'll make Pt's rotation a bit more tricky, due to a crazy number of clueless rerollers, breaking 10-49 bracket. If those rerollers will ever reach such a treatening number. It's like sages, who got nerged jus because there was a lot of them. and newbs got scared away into other classes after the nerf. i mean long time ago one. not after 1.2. Good night, fellow opponents

It's really a bit of both. It's just that PTs are the only AC at the moment, which forgives most of mistakes (except for positioning), and lets crappy players to get on people's nerves. Missile spam before 1.2 if i may. A bit harder, but more rewarding. Just by looking, how, say, a shadow or an operative moves and attacks, i can determine if i should be worried or not. Every PT is a wild card, cause even if he's doing everything wrong, he still can hit very hard. Well, not very, disproportionally to his skill. See, a good sniper can rip me to shreds, a bad one will barely leave a scratch on me. Any PT will hurt me badly, despite his skill level. That is bad. We're gettin a big crowd of barely able people who are hiding behind FOTM class. And the class allows it. I mean yes, maras can be op, but you have to play very good, to make mara work. You need 3 fingers to make PT work.

Still not paying attention? You seem to really know the game. How can you not consider PTs an issue? Although people, who play Assa tanks, have a bit different coordinate system, but whatever. About me being blind and stupid: if you're in a middle of a brawl, you have alot of fire everywhere, and many debuffs on you. So Most of the time the only way to notice a PT on you is the sound of the bomb ticking. But if Pt used his default attack, and you start burning, you'll miss that RS most of the time. There's no other class so hard to catch. Dps sins have to build up their burst, you can see it coming, snipers have abright beam on you, while they channel, etc etc. PTs are not 1v1 and not L2P issue.

Please, stop assuming, that no one knows how to play the game.

RS is not always easy to catch, you see. We're not talking 1v1, we're talking horrible mess in a middle of Civil War, with aoes and all that. I'm not trying to tell you, that crit chance is pushing defence off the table, only that some misses are extencively compensated by crits. Please not defensives again. Ok as simple as it gets: any idiot, who never ever played pvp before can do at least 300-350k dps on a PT. That's my issue. Crappy deception assasin will do about 170k in the same circumsatnces, despite all the defencives and utility and what not. 2-3 people, who actually know how to play PT, can be devastating. Trust me, i'm not QQ, because i got killed a few times. Honestly.

How can i possibly catch an instant cast hit with a 3 sec ability? I'm not a sniper btw, play a balance shadow. Snipers are just easy to use as an example. 2 posts up. PT are easy to beat, but they force our full premade, to keep an eye on them all the time. Very very annoying. In pugs it's just a nightmare. It's nice to have an actual discussion with someone.