Isn't it odd that Darkness is the only viable PVP Build?

[Ovan_Oh-One]

no that's false again. Merc's are horrible(healers are average), powertechs are good, and marauders have 2 good specs, Anni and smash spec.

 

and yes if you're playing madness/deception you have NO chance against a good darkness assassin

 

I want what he's smoking.

[Keenkey]

no that's false again. Merc's are horrible(healers are average), powertechs are good, and marauders have 2 good specs, Anni and smash spec.

 

and yes if you're playing madness/deception you have NO chance against a good darkness assassin

 

Anytime I see someone make a comment like this I can only think lemming, or sheep. They obviously only look at 1 thing to measure a players skill... numbers on the leader board. I'd much rather have someone on my team who has the discipline to park their hiney at an objective and defend it, or camp the endzone waiting for passes, knowing they won't get the kills or pump out the numbers, then some DB who completely ignores objectives so they can hit 400k damage. These guys always challenge people to duels, what does your duel prove? The PvP in this game is not designed around 1v1, it's designed around 8v8. The duel proves nothing.

 

The build does not make the player, the player makes the build.

Edited June 21, 2012 by Keenkey
did not know ***** would be filtered

[darkenwolf]

lol if you think madness or deception is good for pvp you're either terrible or just dumb. Are any of you bads on The Bastion? Cause I'd love to duel you and show you how bad your spec is.

 

Credibility: zero.

 

I want what he's smoking.

 

Seriously.

 

...

 

Second this game is objectiv based wich basicly means utility = King, and yes you guessed it 23/1/17 is the specc with the most utility in the game for us.

 

...

 

This is one of those statements that sounds grander than it actually is, the Hybrid and full Madness have comparable utility. It has a pull, Madness has a root that ignores resolve; they both have instant WW - everything else is shared. The hybrid edges out with being able to Spike out of stealth, but this alone is not game defining. The Hybrid is a solid build, but I'll only be switching to it out of extreme necessity which so far has not been proven.

[tXHereticXt]

Every class has that. It's not that other builds aren't viable it's just if you mess up in said alternative build the cost is usually greater. Deception for Sins is awesome with damage but if you lack utilities that can come from Madness so if not used correctly you'll be squishy as hell. But when used right, every build has it's potential to do great in the right hands.

[Metajedi]

no that's false again. Merc's are horrible(healers are average), powertechs are good, and marauders have 2 good specs, Anni and smash spec.

 

and yes if you're playing madness/deception you have NO chance against a good darkness assassin

 

way I see it man, All Darkness sins with dps gear are taking advantage of a serious short sightedness on the part of bioware. Your cheating basically, the way the game was designed was that tank specs were supposed to wear tank gear. period.

 

Apart from the ease of play that is darkness its is way OP and this is why they are addressing it in 1.3, I hope they find a way to nerf the hell out of it so that its only viability is in Tanking like originally intended.

 

IMO Deception and madness are both harder, I am a veteran of both specs, and have success with both, its a matter of how you do it.

 

And no, I do not play Deception for " the lols " or "greedy for damage" I play it to burst kill other light/medium armor dps...even dps Juggs are squishy enough to take down quickly.

 

Thats why I do it, I see it as a form of utility dropping vunerable targets that if left alone are pumping out their own insane dps... You know how much easier it is for your healers when the other team are automatically down a gunslinger or sentinal beating on them? and thats the key to success, picking your fights.

 

Heres an example of how I know Darkness is unbalanced...

 

Me and a vengeance jugg I roll with are always topping Wz's together or apart we're near the top in dps and objectives... we're both in BM/warhero we double teamed what I am assuming was a full War hero shadow, no one else was around.... now we did win, but it literally took EVERYTHING we had to take this guy down, and he killed the jugg in the process because I had vanished. Thats entirely unfair..... both people going balls to the wall and useing every trick they have to barely win? Not in a 2v1 situation...thats imbalanced.

[RogueNights]

way I see it man, All Darkness sins with dps gear are taking advantage of a serious short sightedness on the part of bioware. Your cheating basically, the way the game was designed was that tank specs were supposed to wear tank gear. period.

 

Apart from the ease of play that is darkness its is way OP and this is why they are addressing it in 1.3, I hope they find a way to nerf the hell out of it so that its only viability is in Tanking like originally intended.

 

IMO Deception and madness are both harder, I am a veteran of both specs, and have success with both, its a matter of how you do it.

 

And no, I do not play Deception for " the lols " or "greedy for damage" I play it to burst kill other light/medium armor dps...even dps Juggs are squishy enough to take down quickly.

 

Thats why I do it, I see it as a form of utility dropping vunerable targets that if left alone are pumping out their own insane dps... You know how much easier it is for your healers when the other team are automatically down a gunslinger or sentinal beating on them? and thats the key to success, picking your fights.

 

Heres an example of how I know Darkness is unbalanced...

 

Me and a vengeance jugg I roll with are always topping Wz's together or apart we're near the top in dps and objectives... we're both in BM/warhero we double teamed what I am assuming was a full War hero shadow, no one else was around.... now we did win, but it literally took EVERYTHING we had to take this guy down, and he killed the jugg in the process because I had vanished. Thats entirely unfair..... both people going balls to the wall and useing every trick they have to barely win? Not in a 2v1 situation...thats imbalanced.

 

You have to admit its a little silly to say wearing dps gear in a tank spec is cheating. Playing as a pure tank isn't that popular in pvp for any class, its not just an assassin thing at all, its an issue caused by the lack of effectiveness of a pure tanking role in pvp. If bioware didn't realize this at release, they certainly realize it now, notice that the darkness assassins ability to tank, not their ability to dps is getting nerfed.

 

Will also point out that w/ cds ready, its possible for almost anyone to kill 1 for 1 even when out numbered. If you throw in better skill+gear (which seems to be the case from what you said) and maybe a wz adrenal and its certainly possible to get close to 2 to 1.

[orillah]

Darkness (full or hybrid) is just better because of awesome utility . If you switch deception/madness you lose pull, breaking shnare sprint on lower cooldown, ability to guard, and 2s stun without stealth requirement. This is why we say darkness is superior spec. Other reason for me is that deception/madness damage is good, but not so good as anni mara or assault vanguard.

[Jonespiano]

Deception and Madness Assassins have a dramatically different role in PvP compared to Darkness. They're ultra squishy, even if you do take the points in improved armor (which no one should, frankly). Deception is best for 1v1 fights against targets that are compromised and/or isolated; they can take down a ranged DPS or healer with ease, but don't try to engage a melee class unless you're really confident.

 

Madness is a pressurizer. When I play this spec, I pretty much load Discharge onto as many targets as I can, especially if they're spread out and can't benefit from AE healing over time. The spammable DoT that has no cooldown and heals you as well makes it a very effective class at what it does. If I'm taking scattered AE damage the healing I get from doing this is usually enough to keep up. If I do something that gets too much attention from the other team, I'm going to die and there's nothing much I can do about it, but my DoTs will still be doing damage for a while even after I'm gone.

Edited June 22, 2012 by Jonespiano

[InariOkami]

I find it silly how oblivious some people are to the true state of assassins. When it comes to rated play, cookie cutter deception will be obsolete, and madness assassins will have their spots replaced by their prettier twin madness sorcerers. The argument that "omg i hit someone for 7k with shock deception is fine l2p!!!!" or "i hit 500k damage as madness in voidstar its fine l2p!!!" is ridiculous. Deception is a one trick pony that is useless against any good player that can recognize the spinny lightsaber. Doulbe voltaic slash? Oh lemme just stun you here. There's a reason why 90% of assassins in pvp play as darkness. It is designed to perform optimally in large scale PvP, whereas deception is tuned for small scale encounters (think WoW 2v2 Arena...it would be viable in there) in a large scale objective based PvP system. As much as people like to think "I'm just better than those guys, they should learn how to play their class", the state of assassins come 1.3 is going to become clear. Deception needs to be thrown out the door and reworked completely. There's no reason to bring in a madness assassin when madness sorcerers do everything but from 30m away and much better. I'm not saying assassins are going to be say, concealment operative bad come 1.3, but they're not going to be as rosy as some would like to believe. Any team that brings in a deception/infiltration or madness assassin will just be gimping themselves. And this is coming from a DPS assassin. I've played all 3 specs and am currently settled into a 0/13/28 spec, so I'm not one of these "darkness FOTM baddies". Just because a spec is good, doesnt mean the people who play it aren't. Compare how well a good player does (when I say well I mean how drastically they affect their teams outcome at the end of a match, not how many numbers they put up) with darkness as opposed to deception, or annihilation to carnage, or pyrotech to advanced prototype. Edited June 23, 2012 by InariOkami

[darkenwolf]

I remain unconvinced that it will be complete doom, gloom, and skies falling - at least for Madness. That being said, I remain flexible and will (grudgingly) switch to the Hybrid if that's what it takes. Not that I have a team right now since, as with a lot of Anchorhead guilds, most of mine flat out unsubbed (as I did until server swap) or flooded over to Tera in the past few months.

[Metajedi]

You have to admit its a little silly to say wearing dps gear in a tank spec is cheating. Playing as a pure tank isn't that popular in pvp for any class, its not just an assassin thing at all, its an issue caused by the lack of effectiveness of a pure tanking role in pvp. If bioware didn't realize this at release, they certainly realize it now, notice that the darkness assassins ability to tank, not their ability to dps is getting nerfed.

 

Will also point out that w/ cds ready, its possible for almost anyone to kill 1 for 1 even when out numbered. If you throw in better skill+gear (which seems to be the case from what you said) and maybe a wz adrenal and its certainly possible to get close to 2 to 1.

Its not cheating as if they were hacking, but they are taking advantage of a broken system, however its no worse then any one else has done for any mmo ever. People always take advantage of broken systems. Bioware just allowed it with their crappy foresight. They made most tank stats essentially useless, so I completely understand why Darkness sins do what they do.

 

But that doesnt change the fact that this isnt what Bioware had in mind for Darkness, and I believe that class is a bit too OP. I have never tried it personally because I refuse too, but my buddy who has a anything to win attitude never shuts up about how easy it is to play coming from deception.

 

Its too powerful, and its unbalanced.

 

Additionally to the poster that said Deception is on its last legs. I really am not convinced by your argument.

There are plenty of games where high burst damage classes that are generally only good for killing healers and other DPS do fine in objective pvp, including WoW.

 

Again the trick is picking targets and blowing them away, lets say its a 5v5 at the center in alderaan, a smart Deception assasin is going to go for the most vulnerable target first... If there is a healer the rest of the dps should be attacking him, leaving the healer stressed on keeping himself alive, Its at this point that I blow my cool downs and burst down the gunslinger, or marauder or what ever...if I just bring down 1 target its now 4 v 5 ive done my job...and im usually good enough to bring down 2 before I have to vanish and recup.

 

deception is tuned for small scale encounters

The trick to deception is finding a small scale encounter in a large scale encounter.

 

Nothing will change about this in 1.3

 

Deception is good for picking targets and killing them quickly, but just like virtually any class im only as good as my team

Edited June 23, 2012 by Metajedi

[InariOkami]

The trick to deception is finding a small scale encounter in a large scale encounter.

 

Nothing will change about this in 1.3

 

Deception is good for picking targets and killing them quickly, but just like virtually any class im only as good as my team

 

I said it was tuned for small scale, not that it was any good in small scale. Besides the fact that it's meant for something completely different than warzones, it's designed terribly, as I stated in the last post.

[Xallus]

I find it silly how oblivious some people are to the true state of assassins. When it comes to rated play, cookie cutter deception will be obsolete, and madness assassins will have their spots replaced by their prettier twin madness sorcerers. The argument that "omg i hit someone for 7k with shock deception is fine l2p!!!!" or "i hit 500k damage as madness in voidstar its fine l2p!!!" is ridiculous. Deception is a one trick pony that is useless against any good player that can recognize the spinny lightsaber. Doulbe voltaic slash? Oh lemme just stun you here. There's a reason why 90% of assassins in pvp play as darkness. It is designed to perform optimally in large scale PvP, whereas deception is tuned for small scale encounters (think WoW 2v2 Arena...it would be viable in there) in a large scale objective based PvP system. As much as people like to think "I'm just better than those guys, they should learn how to play their class", the state of assassins come 1.3 is going to become clear. Deception needs to be thrown out the door and reworked completely. There's no reason to bring in a madness assassin when madness sorcerers do everything but from 30m away and much better. I'm not saying assassins are going to be say, concealment operative bad come 1.3, but they're not going to be as rosy as some would like to believe. Any team that brings in a deception/infiltration or madness assassin will just be gimping themselves. And this is coming from a DPS assassin. I've played all 3 specs and am currently settled into a 0/13/28 spec, so I'm not one of these "darkness FOTM baddies". Just because a spec is good, doesnt mean the people who play it aren't. Compare how well a good player does (when I say well I mean how drastically they affect their teams outcome at the end of a match, not how many numbers they put up) with darkness as opposed to deception, or annihilation to carnage, or pyrotech to advanced prototype.

 

THIS

 

Kind of text-wallish, but spot on. Dec/Madasins do leagues more damage but pvp on SWTOR currently is almost entirely a group support favoring element of the game, moreso than most PVE IMO. And darkness offers the most group support for warzones out of the 3. I was deception before trying darkness pvp, I enjoyed it (deception was awesome fun), but I also enjoy tanking raids very much and respeccing all the time is awefully annoying.

 

Then trying darkness pvp, the difference was like night and day. I don't mean a difference in my own personal success necessarily, but an impossible to ignore positive effect on the success of my team. Most of that coming from guard + taunts and wither, force pull in hutball is invaluable, and the personal survivability of the tree in general increasing the time you can defend a node substantially.

 

Its one thing to choose deception or madness because you enjoy the pvp playstyle, but to hate on darkness simply because its better for pvp is another. If Lance Armstrong loved bmx bikes so much he chose to do the Tour De France on one, noone would expect him to complain that everyone else was using road bikes.

[Xinika]

I find it silly how oblivious some people are to the true state of assassins. When it comes to rated play, cookie cutter deception will be obsolete, and madness assassins will have their spots replaced by their prettier twin madness sorcerers. The argument that "omg i hit someone for 7k with shock deception is fine l2p!!!!" or "i hit 500k damage as madness in voidstar its fine l2p!!!" is ridiculous. Deception is a one trick pony that is useless against any good player that can recognize the spinny lightsaber. Doulbe voltaic slash? Oh lemme just stun you here. There's a reason why 90% of assassins in pvp play as darkness. It is designed to perform optimally in large scale PvP, whereas deception is tuned for small scale encounters (think WoW 2v2 Arena...it would be viable in there) in a large scale objective based PvP system. As much as people like to think "I'm just better than those guys, they should learn how to play their class", the state of assassins come 1.3 is going to become clear. Deception needs to be thrown out the door and reworked completely. There's no reason to bring in a madness assassin when madness sorcerers do everything but from 30m away and much better. I'm not saying assassins are going to be say, concealment operative bad come 1.3, but they're not going to be as rosy as some would like to believe. Any team that brings in a deception/infiltration or madness assassin will just be gimping themselves. And this is coming from a DPS assassin. I've played all 3 specs and am currently settled into a 0/13/28 spec, so I'm not one of these "darkness FOTM baddies". Just because a spec is good, doesnt mean the people who play it aren't. Compare how well a good player does (when I say well I mean how drastically they affect their teams outcome at the end of a match, not how many numbers they put up) with darkness as opposed to deception, or annihilation to carnage, or pyrotech to advanced prototype.

 

Possibly the most reasonable post I've seen on these forums in ages.

+1

[Fallerup]

I agree. they need to rework deception tree fast, or every assassin/shadow and their mothers are gonna be a Darkness-madness/KC-balance hybrid and where is the fun in that?

 

Personally, I would like abilities such as Force in balance and death field to be made to work like Wither/slow time. in that you target a player/mob and it becomes the center of the area affected. That will do away with the "aiming" and clicking part that I hate with death field.

 

you could make it have 2 functions... function 1: hits target and XX meters around the target (like wither/slow time) and function 2: if you have nothing targeted and cast it, it is as it is now.

 

Now, you might think this is stupid. But for someone like me, that plays MMO with 1 hand, it's brilliant. You see, my weakness is, that I must either use my keyboard or my mouse. So, when casting death field, it takes me longer to get it where I want it, than most of you. This is why I prefer Civil war or void star over huttball... I hate passing the ball if I get it cause it works like casting death field.

[timidobserver]

Why do people make these sorts of ridiculous statements?

 

My Madness Assassin usually comes in at number 1, 2 or at most 3 on the WZ list for damage, with around 30-35 kills for 3-4 deaths. Darkness is NOT the only viable spec. And I'm a keyboard-turning clicker, so not everything that the min-maxers say is true is actually true.

 

Your server must be terrible then. On my server 1,2,3 and typically over 600k and I've never seen a madness assassin put out those kind of numbers regularly.