Huttball class imbalance needs to change.

[Varicite]

Mercs can do almost the exact same thing as a Sniper in Huttball. Set up on middle bridges, KB anyone who comes close, pew pew the middle.

 

They can also heal and dispel for their teammates, and stay in decent positions due to range.

 

Every class has something they can be doing to contribute to the win, and usually in a somewhat unique fashion.

 

If your Operative's stunlock DPS isn't winning Huttball, then maybe you should look into what ELSE your class can do and how to exploit those abilities to your class' advantage, and play to that niche.

 

DPS Operatives still have very strong CC, and can easily hamper an enemy team trying to assist their ball carrier, or CC people over fires, etc.

 

They still have heals and dispels, while not as strong as their healing counterpart, but it's still better than not contributing.

 

They still have stealth which allows them to get into perfect position for pass relays.

 

I don't know why you keep trying to project your own dislike of Huttball onto everyone else who plays your class.

 

PS) You can Roll Into Cover from the ground at middle to the top of catwalks, completely bypassing the air vents or having to go around the ramps at all.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Varicite

[MobiusZero]

I don't know why you keep trying to project your own dislike of Huttball onto everyone else who plays your class.

 

Actually, I find it to be quite the opposite. My class consistently voices their dislike of huttball, but people try to project onto us that things are just fine. I play my operative enough to know that things are NOT fine.

 

And would you be willing to bet money that most DPS operatives like huttball? I'd love to make some easy cash.

Edited June 20, 2012 by MobiusZero

[MenechUK]

If a Sentinel uses his speed boosts and defence buffs correctly there a monster in Huttball. Before the server merge on my old server I most likely scored more in Huttball then the rest of the republic side combined (maybe not that much but a lot).

 

Of course it helps to be backed up by one or two good sages that get ahead and pull you, don't think I have ever lost a Huttball match when playing with my guild having 2 good sages healers and a Sentinel runner is a winning combo in my opinion.

[Varicite]

Actually, I find it to be quite the opposite. My class consistently voices their dislike of huttball, but people try to project onto us that things are just fine. I play my operative enough to know that things are NOT fine.

 

And would you be willing to bet money that most DPS operatives like huttball? I'd love to make some easy cash.

 

Your class is widely regarded as the "worst at huttball", but still has contributing factors. I can understand that some people dislike doing things that they can't be good at (through no fault of their own), but this is a RPG and you chose to be the squishy, stealthy DPS role that isn't good at Huttball. There's almost nothing about the Operative AC that screams "I'm gonna be a Huttball BEAST!".

 

You chose the class that you think is fun, w/ the abilities that you like to use, and nobody begrudes you that. Yet here you are doing exactly that to anyone who just happened to pick a class that has an ability that's useful in Huttball - Warriors leap, it's kind of their thing. It was their iconic class ability from the very first KotOR, which this game is based on. Yet here you are wanting to take that away in Huttball, because YOU picked a class that is worse on that particular map.

 

It's a good thing there's 3 other maps and another one coming out in the near future, so nobody really cares about class imbalance on one map (except for the guys that are at the bottom, of course, which is ALWAYS going to be the case).

 

Operatives excel at maps like Novare, Civil War, and arguably Voidstar. Other classes fare worse in those WZs, but I don't see you asking to rebalance those maps for them...

Edited June 20, 2012 by Varicite

[DroidDreamer]

Almost all of the things that the original poster complains about are things that I find to be great fun in Huttball -- whether they are for my team's benefit or we are on the receiving end. Leaps, pulls, stuns, knockbacks, Force Speed, etc. those are what make the game FUN.

 

If you're a Sniper/Gunslinger your job is to control mid or otherwise play defense. There is no other class that can compete with you in area denial with AOE. Drop Orbital Strike and Plasma Probe for area denial + a snare (and Interrogation Probe can be great on the enemy ball carrier or enemies chasing your ball carrier if you talent it up for the snare effect). Stack IP with Plasma Probe, for a two second stun followed by Leg Shot to keep them in the AOE and nail them with your other DPS abilities. Flash Bang grenade is great for CC'ing several foes trying to stop your ball carrier. Leg Shot ignores Resolve and lets you freeze the ball carrier in the firepit! Yes, it's a defensive game but, yes, you can have a major impact.

 

While I definitely prefer the offensive and utility of my Sorceror to the Sniper, they're just different types of games. And let me tell you Force Speed only gets you so far. As a Sorc, the best you can hope for is to catch the other team unawares with your cool down available on force speed assuming you are only one fire trap from scoring. Otherwise, you're dead after taking a few hits.

 

In short, each class has a role in Huttball, including Sniper/Gunslinger.

[MobiusZero]

Operatives excel at maps like Novare, Civil War, and arguably Voidstar. Other classes fare worse in those WZs, but I don't see you asking to rebalance those maps for them...

 

I disagree. Operatives are certainly better off in those maps than they are Huttball, but they aren't better at them compared to other classes.

 

It's no excuse to have them lack so much value in huttball.

 

While I definitely prefer the offensive and utility of my Sorceror to the Sniper, they're just different types of games.

 

So you're admitting that you have more fun on your sorceror in huttball. And that's compared to a sniper, who is far better off than a DPS operative.

Edited June 20, 2012 by MobiusZero

[Wesgile]

You chose the class that you think is fun, w/ the abilities that you like to use, and nobody begrudes you that. Yet here you are doing exactly that to anyone who just happened to pick a class that has an ability that's useful in Huttball - Warriors leap, it's kind of their thing. It was their iconic class ability from the very first KotOR, which this game is based on. Yet here you are wanting to take that away in Huttball, because YOU picked a class that is worse on that particular map.

i dont think anyone here wants to take away those iconic class abilities at all. its fine that they can leap and push and pull whoever they wanted to, just not with the ball.

remember? Grab the ball, throw the ball.

or otherwise let the non force users kick the ball...

[Varicite]

i dont think anyone here wants to take away those iconic class abilities at all. its fine that they can leap and push and pull whoever they wanted to, just not with the ball.

remember? Grab the ball, throw the ball.

or otherwise let the non force users kick the ball...

 

But that is not showing our sponsor Giradda the respect he deserves... :c

 

I guess I'm just not understanding why people wouldn't rather just learn to counter the force users w/ their own abilities. It's hardly impossible if you have a competent team.

 

Tankassin carrier? Mark him, keep him locked down so he doesn't get TO the ball. If he does get the ball, exercise your classes w/ roots to keep him locked down w/out filling Resolve so that he CAN be stunned / pulled when necessary. Tankassin carriers are only great from the first fire to the endzone; their defenses do not let them go from the ball stand to endzone w/out help if you are focusing them.

 

Jugg carrier? Don't stand on ledges, don't stand in "jump-to" spots. Keep a puller BEHIND him in "chase mode", so that when he does get a jump-to you can pull him into the fire (wait 4 seconds after the jump, if you're smart). If you don't have a puller, roots work well also, as they deny Force Leap for the duration.

 

Sorc puller? Seriously, I don't even know why this happens, because Sorcs can't stealth and remain extremely visible the entire time they are climbing YOUR catwalks completely unhindered as they get to a great pulling position. This is pretty much a no-brainer, and if your team is awake, they SHOULD notice a Sorc running ahead of the carrier to get into position. Really, as a general rule of thumb, you should ALWAYS keep tabs on any enemies running ahead of the ball carrier who may be potential receivers or pullers. That's where the ball will be going next.

 

Other than that, strong control of mid is always a good denial tactic, and who doesn't like to TDM at mid for the ball?

 

Or, you could always set up pass relays, which is a pretty effective tactic when combined w/ 1-2 stealth classes (yes, Operatives/Scoundrels included) in tandem w/ pullers.

 

I dunno, maybe the real issue is the fact that people are stuck playing Huttball w/ pugs, and have zero control over whether that moron stands on the ledge and lets the Jugg carrier jump to him, or whether the PT on your team pulls the Sorc down from the top catwalk instead of trying to get some random DPS in the fire. Or the 234098723457 people that INSIST it's a good idea to stun the ball carrier when he's in the endzone and you can't possibly kill him.

 

/shrug

[LenrocNewDawn]

You ARE useful controlling mid what you want to say is I want MY class to have god mode too...

 

If controlling mid is not important enough for you, you sir, fail at understanding Huttball

 

So you do agree that some classes have a god mode while the rest just whine in order to get one too ... . I see....

Controlling the mid is important but it can be done by any good DPS class, scoring in 10 seconds from mid can only be done by some classes .

Remove all self speed buffs and gap closers for BALL CARRIER and you'll get a more balanced and team oriented game-play.

[SgtBranham]

In Huttball everyone has their roll and from reading the OP's post, it seeems he doesn't what to play his.

 

I play a juggernaut and I carry the ball alot so I will say this. To be effective there needs to be someone ahead of me. Friend or foe. If there isn't, moving the ball is a real nightmare. And to be effective a player still need to pass. Even if you have all the leap abilities.

 

Huttball is a team sport and taking away any of the ball moving abilities will make it a deathmatch in the center and too much like the other warzones. As of now, It's the only Warzone where teamwork and coordination outweight DPS and Healing. Smart CC'ing and knockbacks are king. Huttball requires situational awareness that most tunnel-visioning players cannot seem to grasp.

 

That being said, your team is only as good as your weakest link. If there is a guy that will run to the ledge to be jumped to, then its gets frustrating. I usually mark this person and tell my team to kill him on sight so he will be coming out of the respawn as i arrive.

 

I also mark the other teams assassins and power techs and instruct my team to keep them outside of 30 meter or at least away from the traps. There are a ton of times where i intercede to a teammate and immediately throw the ball strait to them and about .5 sec later get grappled back into the fire.

[cronpants]

I find it very unfair for Commandos, scoundrels and gunslinger that cannot be much help objectively in huttball.

I know they can DPS or heal. But everyone can do that.

It makes no sense to me that one class can basically jump from mid to endzone with the ball in 5 seconds if he gets lucky. That you can be pulled for instant dead by only 2 classes. Or that a carrier can be pulled by a sage. Add force speed thru anything. God modes on fire traps. etc.

Why doesn't the ball drop on Force leap? On Force speed? On Rescue? Why is it possible to be pulled on the fire pit for an instant dead? (Even if you have CC breaker if you get pulled in the middle of it you are basically dead.)

At this point passing the ball is nearly useless. You just need a Guardian or Shadow tank to run it. And both will be 200% more usefull then a scoundrel who got no pushback, no pull, no leap, no burst of speed...

 

Am I the only one to believe the ball should drop on abilities that allows you to move the balls faster then it should be? Am I the only one to believe fire trap should not be used only to pull people to their death and instead having a way to kill a tank carrying the ball without passing it? Is it wrong to believe god mode on fire traps are plain stupid?

 

I have pulled people in fire pits. It's easy.

I have leaped 3 times in a row to a score as a guardian. It's easy.

I have force speed thru fire pits and rescue carrier further. It's easy.

I have knockbacked people into fire, juke them by running thru a pit just to stun them in fire. That's not easy. I want to see more of this and less faceroll ball carrying. Please tell me I'm not the only one.

 

Edit : I sure as hell know that bioware don't give a F about anything the players say. They just don't care about feedback and anything in theses forums are but trolls and ignored comments. Their automated response for everything is a proof. Even if everyone would agree about ball dropping upon leaps, rescue and force speed they wouldn't do a thing about it. I just post this because I want to talk about it. Pretty sure at bioware they play mostly inquisitors and warriors. (Probably no republic at BW)

 

Judging from your emotional response I find it hard to believe that you have really tried to learn how to play Huttball. I had a nice long response for you but this is simpler, Adapt or die. Sounds like you have been dieing a lot.

[cronpants]

So you do agree that some classes have a god mode while the rest just whine in order to get one too ... . I see....

Controlling the mid is important but it can be done by any good DPS class, scoring in 10 seconds from mid can only be done by some classes .

Remove all self speed buffs and gap closers for BALL CARRIER and you'll get a more balanced and team oriented game-play.

 

And you will ruin the only fun pvp map any game has produced , EVER.

[LenrocNewDawn]

And you will ruin the only fun pvp map any game has produced , EVER.

 

WoW where did that come from? And how, removing leaps and force speed for BALL CARRIER,will ruin the map or the game? Ah, your tune can leap or speed away, say no more, I get it !!!

[randalthorr]

And you will ruin the only fun pvp map any game has produced , EVER.

 

Agree +1

[Sabredance]

And you will ruin the only fun pvp map any game has produced , EVER.

 

Agree +2

[Forgon]

And you will ruin the only fun pvp map any game has produced , EVER.

 

Agree +3

Edited June 25, 2012 by Forgon

[MrHotter]

We know a couple things about carrying the ball in Huttball.

 

You get snared while carying and you can't stealth while carrying.

 

The snare is to let the other team have a chance to catch you, and the ball dropping on stealth is because it would not be very fun for the non stealthers if a couple ACs could just find ways to sneak the ball into the end zone.

 

Passing is supposed to be the strategic way to advance the ball faster than a snared walk. It has it's own strategies and downfalls, so it's one of the main strategy component built into the match.

 

The ball carrying rules are there to make scoring more difficult. If that is true, then it would make sense for the ball to drop on things like friendly pulls and force leaps. Those are things that also do not allow the other team the opportunity to keep up with the ball carrier or afford a chance to intercept the ball.

 

And yes, I'm one of the guys that does not like to PvP with my operative. Since I also have a PT and a shadow I'd rather play the classes that don't spend most of the match watching the other team score and knowing you can't do anything about it.

[Mrunlimited]

i am a scoundrel... so now that is out in the open, here is my story.

 

Last night in huttball(full pug) im doing my thing. being in position for passes and what not, healing here n there, tossing the balls to whoever is open except noone is open. there are 4 gun slingers on my team all just sitting in mid, except THEY'RE NOT KILLING ANYBODY.. even worse they're not even grabbing the ball.

 

the final score was 5-5.. i scored ALL 5 goals(remember im a scoundrel). and when i said "GET THE BALL AND TURTLE" guess what the 4 gunslingers did? nothing

 

at which point a powertech grabbed the ball and passed to a sorcerer, who tried to score and ended up getting stun locked by me in a fire for me to get the ball / grab sprint / and camp at the medpac for 15 seconds to win the game.

 

Huttball is won by those who have brains. scoundrels do have it hardest of all the classes(in my opinion) but we can still be useful with good positioning (we do have stealth after all).

[Satans_Puppet]

Have to agree with the poster above me. Brains are needed in objective based PvP... brains and people who are actually willing to do the objective.

 

Huttball is a hard map due to the super fast running folks but if you can anticipate as a healer whcih side a player will go with the ball, you can indeed heal from down on the ground as long as they're near the edge

 

Totally different map but yesterday on Alderaan there was a healer who was NOT going for the middle cap and he had plenty of time, they were holding people down by their spawn side and they were ages away but instead he kept casting heals and when I asked why he wasn't capping he said he was a healer and he was doing his job.

 

I'm a healer too and I practically matched his heals despite running around trying to cap. As a healer my view is Objective over heals... if someone has to die because I have to stop and rescue the ball person or try to cap, then I'll let them die for the win

 

I hate the players who think medals/roles trump the win.... it's annoying. I've vowed that next time I see this healer I'm going to ignore the objective just once n show him how it's done lol.

 

Huttball has classes better suited for ball carrying... it's the way it is, that's why you're put in teams... so you can WORK as a team to ensure those who need to get the ball, get teh ball.

[Jetflair]

Its also not warzone for slow and laggy computers/connections. If you though doing pvp was hard because badly optimized engine, just try hutball. Anykind of lag or problem updating screen is sure way to spoil ball throwing.

 

Yes I got crappy computer, still its the slowest wz because effects and structures.

[LenrocNewDawn]

i am a scoundrel... so now that is out in the open, here is my story.

 

Last night in huttball(full pug) im doing my thing. being in position for passes and what not, healing here n there, tossing the balls to whoever is open except noone is open. there are 4 gun slingers on my team all just sitting in mid, except THEY'RE NOT KILLING ANYBODY.. even worse they're not even grabbing the ball.

 

the final score was 5-5.. i scored ALL 5 goals(remember im a scoundrel). and when i said "GET THE BALL AND TURTLE" guess what the 4 gunslingers did? nothing

 

at which point a powertech grabbed the ball and passed to a sorcerer, who tried to score and ended up getting stun locked by me in a fire for me to get the ball / grab sprint / and camp at the medpac for 15 seconds to win the game.

 

Huttball is won by those who have brains. scoundrels do have it hardest of all the classes(in my opinion) but we can still be useful with good positioning (we do have stealth after all).

 

Well I guess that clarifies why you are called Mrunlimited !!! Kudos to you , you should share your char name and server cause they will murder to have you in a team for ranked WZs.

[MrHotter]

i am a scoundrel... so now that is out in the open, here is my story.

 

Last night in huttball(full pug) im doing my thing. being in position for passes and what not, healing here n there, tossing the balls to whoever is open except noone is open. there are 4 gun slingers on my team all just sitting in mid, except THEY'RE NOT KILLING ANYBODY.. even worse they're not even grabbing the ball.

 

the final score was 5-5.. i scored ALL 5 goals(remember im a scoundrel). and when i said "GET THE BALL AND TURTLE" guess what the 4 gunslingers did? nothing

 

at which point a powertech grabbed the ball and passed to a sorcerer, who tried to score and ended up getting stun locked by me in a fire for me to get the ball / grab sprint / and camp at the medpac for 15 seconds to win the game.

 

Huttball is won by those who have brains. scoundrels do have it hardest of all the classes(in my opinion) but we can still be useful with good positioning (we do have stealth after all).

 

If you were a shadow then you would have won 6-4. One pull into a fire or acid pit followed by a solo run for a score would have ended the game with an easier win. The gunslingers in the center not killing people would actually help there because there would not be respawn to stop you. One of the most used abilities of the operatives (usefull for the other team) is killing people who were not doing anything important so they have a chance to respawn and stop you from scoring.

 

Doing well despite disadvantages of a class would mean that you would do even better if you had a class with better tools.

[WasabiJack]

Agree totally with OP.

 

Leaping with ball, sprinting with ball should reset like stealth with ball does right now.

 

In fact, when you have the ball, I think you shouldn't be allowed to use any abilities at all, just RUN and pass. Perhaps just make it work like the cover bar, remove all abilities from your bar except pass .

 

A bit extreme but will make it a bit more fair and make people pass.

 

I know the good guardians never pass and they shouldn't, it is far more risky to pass then to just wait for a leap.

[SgtBranham]

WoW where did that come from? And how, removing leaps and force speed for BALL CARRIER,will ruin the map or the game? Ah, your tune can leap or speed away, say no more, I get it !!!

 

It is the unique part of the game. If you want to play voidstar then play voidstar and don't advocate huttball into becoming voidstar because that is what would happen if you removed the speeds and leaps. I like the fact that i can get a 6-0 win with 3 kills and 20k damage. Killing people other than the ball carrier in huttball is secondary and the game comes down to team work.

[SgtBranham]

Agree totally with OP.

 

Leaping with ball, sprinting with ball should reset like stealth with ball does right now.

 

In fact, when you have the ball, I think you shouldn't be allowed to use any abilities at all, just RUN and pass. Perhaps just make it work like the cover bar, remove all abilities from your bar except pass .

 

A bit extreme but will make it a bit more fair and make people pass.

 

I know the good guardians never pass and they shouldn't, it is far more risky to pass then to just wait for a leap.

 

I cannot agree with this. It just becomes one big death match in the center if you take these abilities away. All the abilities that sorcs/assassins/jugs use have counters.

 

General tips - USE CC WISELY This is probably the single most important thing you can tell someone is huttball. full resolve at the wrong time can lose the game. Yet, 7 out of 10 times this tends to happen. That is a learn to play issue and makes the ball carriers seem even more powerful than they are.

Use the map to your advantage - Traps are your friend and you dont need to have a pull to take advantage of them. knockbacks into the pit are usually better than strait out killing people. They are out of the way for the same amount of time it would take them to respawn.

 

Jug - Lets see, firstly, kindly instruct your teammates not to stand where he can leap to them. You would be amazed how quickly this slows down his scoring ability. Second, prevent teammates from getting ahead of him. Pulls, knockbacks, stuns, snares work great for this. Granted, it can be tricky sometimes, so catching them at the right time is key to prevent you from getting rid of the ally and not letting them jump to you. Take these two things away and Jugs ball handlers become exponentially worse. They are also VERY prone to knockbacks and pulls. Sometimes if feels like your a pinball when you play a Jug. Jugs can spec into unstoppable and you need to be aware of this and plan accordingly.

 

Assassins - They are going to use force speed. Everyone knows this. Usually they will wait for a full resolve bar. Don't give it to them and use the CC to prevent them from getting far. Snares and roots are probably the best thing. I love force leap/slow/force choke when they try to run over a pit. Also, Focus them and make sure they burn their defensive cooldowns before they want to. This helps alot.

 

Sorcs - They pull friendly targets. So, keep them from getting into position. Pull them down, knock them back, stun them, slow them, kill them (they are squishy). If your team lets a sorc beat you then your team is bad.

 

The "problem" with huttball is that most people can't think tactically. They cannot see their opponents movements and anticipate what they are trying to do. Then they get upset because the sorc that runs past them (which they ignore because they were tunnel visioning the ball carrier) and pulls the ball carrier ahead.