Honest opinion- do you think the game is in trouble?

[Muskaan]

Im not meaning to come across as ultra defensive dont get me wrong, but this game stands up on a very strong bioware made story rpgmmo, rpg being the main part.

 

The story is very weak. None of the 8 class stories are anything more than cheesy disjoint story arcs. There are no overlaps in the storylines. It's almost like you exist in 8 parallel universe.

 

Why isevery Sith Inquisitor who completed his story part of the Dark Council? How big is this Dak Council. How did every damn bounty hunter become a champion of the great hunt? Where's the Imp v Pub war at?

 

 

The RPG aspect is poor. SWTOR has the poorest tools available to any serious RP-ers of any MMO. No chat bubbles, no appearance tab, no interaction with world objects (like chair or swimming). So, it is actually a really pathetic excuse of an RPG.

[Kalfear]

I read that, and that is part of the reason for my concern. Does F2p necessarily mean the game is a failure though?

 

Yes, thats exactly what it means when a planned subscription based MMO forced to go F2P. And lets be honest, if TOR goes 100% F2P, its because it was forced to. The original model had TOR receiving monthly subs for a number of years at a certain population rate! Which its clearly not hitting.

 

TOR is indeed in trouble. Like every other MMO since WOW that used the fast and easy and sloppy model, they have failled to retain the majority share of their subscribers.

 

That doesnt mean TOR is a terrible game, just a poorly thought out one.

 

TOR hits the mark on a number of items but failed to learn about the industry enough to understand what is required in all MMOs (in TOR case it lacks social content and community building content. Concepts that can be acheived through a variety of meathods, yet TOR failled to impliment any of them).

 

Honestly I think its safe to say TOR has been a grand disappointment as a MMO.

Not a failure quite yet, but they are hoovering in that area and the immediate future is very important to their long term ranking as bust or break even release (Its pretty clear success and massive success rankings passed them by now).

 

Its a real shame to. Back in Oct 08 when this game was announced, I had visions of such grandeur for this game and its pretty much come up short in every area but storyline. But even with storyline, they rush you through it so fast its also not all it could have been.

 

At this point in time Im just hoping the industry has learned finally the WOW design of fast, easy, sloppy doesnt work for long term subscription retention. But I said same thing after Rift when the model was clearly not working for them long term wise. So who knows if companies learning and getting the message yet?

[TheLonelyTusken]

I read that, and that is part of the reason for my concern. Does F2p necessarily mean the game is a failure though?

 

No, Lotro is successful, they make money and put out content very regularly. It also has a pretty big population, most servers have lots of people on at any time. Lotro is free to download as well, the mmo community as a whole believes free-to-play means so-bad-they-can't-make-money.

 

Guild Wars 2 is going to LAUNCH free to play, and from the looks of it is going to be fairly successful. Good developers and a solid game from what I've seen in the beta. Which was a couple months ago mind you.

Edited June 19, 2012 by TheLonelyTusken

[Kalfear]

Is there anything not in the game right now that they said would be in the game ?

 

Paazzak (Closed beta said it was in the works. How long does a card game really take?)

[TUXs]

Ranked WZ got pushed back which is not a big deal because i rather have functioning system then a buggy one. and your correct that world pvp needs some help but it is delivered no matter how much you complain about it. And if BW is reading this they should take my suggestion and implement a daily that has worthwhile reward for both open PvP area's . And in worthwhile i mean at least same reward as 6-7 standard WZ matches

 

Agreed (on both ranked and daily)! I was OK with Ranked WZs being pushed back. And, a simple daily "Kill XX players" was all it took for Ilum. All they needed to do was remove the "Ilum" requirement and we would have something for World PvP.

Edited June 19, 2012 by TUXs

[Shingara]

Paazzak (Closed beta said it was in the works. How long does a card game really take?)

 

I did say they said would be in but i wouldnt mind pazzak myself.

[jgelling]

Yes, I think the game is in trouble, in that it's making so little money there may never be a full expansion or even a continuation of the main story. The guy from Darthhater said yesterday on GBTV he interviewed the BW devs and they confirmed Makeb is a world quest only, ie no class story this year.

 

At that rate and given the huge fall we've been seeing in subs since launch, the best part of the game - the KOTOR story-driven MMO concept, is probably on life support. The MMO part of the game can probably limp along, I guess, but I'm not sure this game is up for the competition it's going to face there over the long term. It could limp along with minimal development but it's not the game I'm hanging around to play after my sub ends this month.

 

I still feel attached though because this could be the last Star Wars MMO for a decade or more. No one's going to be able or willing to pick up the torch if this continues going down in flames.

[msales]

Im not meaning to come across as ultra defensive dont get me wrong, but this game stands up on a very strong bioware made story rpgmmo, rpg being the main part. As it stands it has enough content to compete in 2012, does it have enough content to be world number one is the difference and the difference i think people are mistaking for what has to be a competative game.

 

Does it have things it could do with, obviously, does it have things it could have done with on release, of course. But is this a fun and enjoyable game and the answer to that is very much yes. They delivered everying on launch they said they would, the only thing they have slipped on really is illum not working as intended of which as much blame for that falls on the community as bioware and ranked pvp going from 1.2 to 1.3 and thats only because it was broken, after illum none of us wanted something in the game that didnt work especialy todo with pvp.

 

we have seen whats coming, and we have seen how good they are at live events. They are putting content into the game fast and are obviously listening to the playerbase as group finder is coming and the ui changes came into effect.

 

They have a vision of where the game is going, it might not line up totaly with what i want, or you want or others want but what they have shown us looks like a good direction.

 

The problem as I see it is that SWTOR has never really given the feeling of a living world, for a lot of MMO fans this is a very important feature. It almost feels like it was a deliberate decision to strip away standard MMO features in favour of a linear quest grind with a class story. I see where you coming from with the RPG element however that element really seems tied to what feels far more like a simple player experience. I’m not saying that SWTOR is a bad game, I do think however that it’s currently far too limited and needs development time in non-combat related activities and development of the world.

 

The problem is that launching the game in the stat they did will now limit future development as it cost them subscribers, the empty severs were evidence of this. My current mind-set is to give them until 1.3 is released, then if I’m still bored with the game cancel my sub and check back in a year. I want the game ot do well, I want a great SW MMO to play, but at the moment I don't think we're getting that.

[Shingara]

Yes, I think the game is in trouble, in that it's making so little money there may never be a full expansion or even a continuation of the main story. The guy from Darthhater said yesterday on GBTV he interviewed the BW devs and they confirmed Makeb is a world quest only, ie no class story this year.

 

At that rate and given the huge fall we've been seeing in subs since launch, the best part of the game - the KOTOR story-driven MMO concept, is probably on life support. The MMO part of the game can probably limp along, I guess, but I'm not sure this game is up for the competition it's going to face there over the long term. It could limp along with minimal development but it's not the game I'm hanging around to play after my sub ends this month.

 

I still feel attached though because this could be the last Star Wars MMO for a decade or more. No one's going to be able or willing to pick up the torch if this continues going down in flames.

 

 

this is where you went wrong, listen to pokket not justin

4.55 in.

[Jonoku]

Yes I think the game is in trouble and worried here, rumors about the game going F2P, and how much bioware cut down the servers from 122 to now about 20 servers that are populated in good condition.

[Shingara]

The problem as I see it is that SWTOR has never really given the feeling of a living world, for a lot of MMO fans this is a very important feature. It almost feels like it was a deliberate decision to strip away standard MMO features in favour of a linear quest grind with a class story. I see where you coming from with the RPG element however that element really seems tied to what feels far more like a simple player experience. I’m not saying that SWTOR is a bad game, I do think however that it’s currently far too limited and needs development time in non-combat related activities and development of the world.

 

The problem is that launching the game in the stat they did will now limit future development as it cost them subscribers, the empty severs were evidence of this. My current mind-set is to give them until 1.3 is released, then if I’m still bored with the game cancel my sub and check back in a year. I want the game ot do well, I want a great SW MMO to play, but at the moment I don't think we're getting that.

 

 

I can see where your coming from and i do agree alot, I feel ea pushed this out the door to keep this and TSW gapped on launch windows as i always thought 1.2 was what bioware wanted as a release and tsw was slated for april if you remember. I dont mind so much that world feels a little bare right now because im sure you know as well as me as you seem to talk from experience of mmos much like me that what we start out with is nothing compared to what we have a year out.

 

When we saw the live event we saw just how good they were at interweaving new content into old content on planets within areas of it that were popualted with mobs already tied to quests. I know they will be adding planets but i would also bet they will add things to the lower planets too.

 

But mainly what i see is promise, i havnt seen that for along time, ive gone into mmos and some of them you hit them and you know thats really all there going to be like, others you go in and think they will do good and then do nothing development wise. Bioware are pushing out content and they threw the live event out of nowhere and that was amazing. I dont think it will cost them future subscribers though as i think star wars in on itself and the bioware pop may make people go away for a bit but they will more then likly come back.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Shingara

[TUXs]

this is where you went wrong, listen to pokket not justin

4.55 in.

 

I actually have very high hopes for this new mystery planet. I'm just afraid it will simply be more of the same though...and that would be HORRIBLE for the game!

[DarthZaul]

Nah, the group finder will stop most of the sub losses. They just need to do something big and fast to please to PVPers. Ranked WZ don't count cos they are 3 months late.

[lordofdamornin]

Yes, I think the game is in trouble, in that it's making so little money there may never be a full expansion or even a continuation of the main story. The guy from Darthhater said yesterday on GBTV he interviewed the BW devs and they confirmed Makeb is a world quest only, ie no class story this year.

 

At that rate and given the huge fall we've been seeing in subs since launch, the best part of the game - the KOTOR story-driven MMO concept, is probably on life support. The MMO part of the game can probably limp along, I guess, but I'm not sure this game is up for the competition it's going to face there over the long term. It could limp along with minimal development but it's not the game I'm hanging around to play after my sub ends this month.

 

I still feel attached though because this could be the last Star Wars MMO for a decade or more. No one's going to be able or willing to pick up the torch if this continues going down in flames.

 

I'm sorry, I just can't follow your extrapolation here - Bioware stated, quite clearly, that we are getting more class story this year. They never said it would be with Makeb, and anyone who can actually think for themselves (instead of being a Gary Gannon zombie), would know that more story is most likely to come during the holiday season. Simple marketing 101, and business 101 for you.

 

If January 1 comes around, and my class story has not advanced, then you will have been correct. I wouldn't bet on it, though.

 

The game certainly isn't where they would like it to be, but it isn't in trouble yet. Once they get on the horse with a few things, this game will be in a good position for the future.

 

Riôt

[lordofdamornin]

The story is very weak. None of the 8 class stories are anything more than cheesy disjoint story arcs. There are no overlaps in the storylines. It's almost like you exist in 8 parallel universe.

 

Why isevery Sith Inquisitor who completed his story part of the Dark Council? How big is this Dak Council. How did every damn bounty hunter become a champion of the great hunt? Where's the Imp v Pub war at?

 

 

The RPG aspect is poor. SWTOR has the poorest tools available to any serious RP-ers of any MMO. No chat bubbles, no appearance tab, no interaction with world objects (like chair or swimming). So, it is actually a really pathetic excuse of an RPG.

 

No overlaps in the class stories?

 

Maybe you need to play more than one to completion. On each side.

 

Or stop hitting the space bar.

 

Riôt

[CharlieDeltaSig]

I love this game, and while it has some issues (fix the dang Codex BW ) overall I enjoy the game immensely. I keep telling my buddies in the WoW universe I'll come raid with em "tomorrow" but I just can't stop playing this game!

 

But, is the game in trouble? Maybe, I don't think it's going anywhere anytime soon.

[jgelling]

this is where you went wrong, listen to pokket not justin

4.55 in.

 

I think that's in line with what Justin reported:

 

Reporter: "And it's [Makeb's] going to be a continuation of the class quest?"

 

Answer: "It's gonna be, basically the highest-quality story-telling BW is capable of. [stuff about improved cinematics and how big the world is]."

 

Basically Justin said he pinned him down more than Pokket, and they're saying story, but not class story. You'll note how he side-stepped the class story question.

[Shingara]

I think that's in line with what Justin reported:

 

Reporter: "And it's [Makeb's] going to be a continuation of the class quest?"

 

Answer: "It's gonna be, basically the highest-quality story-telling BW is capable of. [stuff about improved cinematics and how big the world is]."

 

Basically Justin said he pinned him down more than Pokket, and they're saying story, but not class story. You'll note how he side-stepped the class story question.

 

did he say no ? btw reporter is pokket, used tobe on gbtv.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Shingara

[Jonoku]

Let's remember now bioware worked on this game since 2005. SWG was doing very well and something hit the heart of swg around 2005-2006. Did bioware even witness what happened to SWG? SOE tried so hard to steal subs from WoW but instead SOE lost their subs. SOE was trying to be like WoW and then SOE gets stabbed in the back, players leaving. Bioware didn't pay attention to SOE's disaster? they decided too that they were going to take WoW subscribers?(be a WoW clone) This is the issue right here I think its in trouble but i really hope bioware picks up the pace. Trust me I like this game. I think this is the main reason the game is in trouble though. Anyone who tries to be like WoW just always fails.

[jgelling]

did he say no ?

 

He didn't say aliens weren't running BW either, but that's a ridiculous standard. Hoping things are true because the guy didn't deny it? If there was class story why'd he dodge the question? More importantly, I gave you another source that says he answered the question with a no. That's enough reason for anyone to believe the answer is no.

[Shingara]

Let's remember now bioware worked on this game since 2005. SWG was doing very well and something hit the heart of swg around 2005-2006. Did bioware even witness what happened to SWG? SOE tried so hard to steal subs from WoW but instead SOE lost their subs. SOE was trying to be like WoW and then SOE gets stabbed in the back, players leaving. Bioware didn't pay attention to SOE's disaster? they decided too that they were going to take WoW subscribers?(be a WoW clone) This is the issue right here I think its in trouble but i really hope bioware picks up the pace. Trust me I like this game. I think this is the main reason the game is in trouble though. Anyone who tries to be like WoW just always fails.

 

You miss a key principle here, swg pre cu was not a themepark game, soe tried to turn it into one, they destroyed what swg was in the chase to get more subs then wow, failed hard because of that, they broke the cardinal rule, do not put in a change to totaly destory your game that subscribers are paying for, wows messing with that now not swtor.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Shingara

[Shingara]

He didn't say aliens weren't running BW either, but that's a ridiculous standard. Hoping things are true because the guy didn't deny it? If there was class story why'd he dodge the question? More importantly, I gave you another source that says he answered the question with a no. That's enough reason for anyone to believe the answer is no.

 

JFK was shot from the grassy knole by a trained squirel and ab lincoln was a vampire hunter, just because he didnt deny it doesnt mean he knows it to be true. The answer is hes not telling. appossed to popular belief we are not entitled to all info.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Shingara

[DiabloDoom]

This game will not go P2W, and no it is not in trouble. What they need is some major advertising. I'm still seeing D3 adverts everywhere.

[LordExozone]

Maybe my perspective is biased as my server is pretty much a ghost server (Lord Calypho) but I do think the game is in trouble. We went from 200+ servers to what, 40? 30? And I don't really see SWTOR gaining subs with GW2 lurking in the corner, about to steal subs from the PvP crowd (since GW2 is free to play, people may play both games, but you'll definitely see a drop in player activity).

 

However if Bioware plays its cards right it may well still turn into a great success, if only they have the courage to do what no MMO after SW:Galaxies has done before: successfully merge traditional WoW-style land-based gameplay with proper space content (X-wing vs Tie-fighter or SW-Battleground like).

[Jonoku]

This game will not go P2W, and no it is not in trouble. What they need is some major advertising. I'm still seeing D3 adverts everywhere.

 

This game won't go P2W of course not, this game isn't in good condition to even make that move. If it goes P2W you will see a massive drop of players/subscriptions/people in-game.