Honest opinion- do you think the game is in trouble?

[RipperNyght]

I loved SWTOR, but after server transfer lost me my 2 main toons names and our Guild name (after we jumped through all the pre order hoops just to get them) The magic is gone. I log in now and the only thing I can think of while lagging through the fleet is when will GW2 be released.

 

I do not understand the need for everyone to think GW2 is so hot. I had hopes for that game and even bought 2 huge CEs for it. Until I played betas over 2 weekends and was appalled by the gameplay. All I will say is in theory the NO HOLY TRINITY sounded good, till I played it. All it did was make the game feel sloppy and classes pointless. Alot of people saying that it makes grouping almost impossible because now no one knows or has their roles to play.

[DarthEris]

I do not understand the need for everyone to think GW2 is so hot. I had hopes for that game and even bought 2 huge CEs for it. Until I played betas over 2 weekends and was appalled by the gameplay. All I will say is in theory the NO HOLY TRINITY sounded good, till I played it. All it did was make the game feel sloppy and classes pointless. Alot of people saying that it makes grouping almost impossible because now no one knows or has their roles to play.

 

I dont think its that hot. I just want to play it now more than SWTOR!

[Sanxxx]

did you say gems yes ?

 

 

 

http://uk.pc.ign.com/articles/122/1221286p1.html

 

 

As you seem to be selective copying how about from the same person/same article......

 

and it's never OK for players who spend money to have an unfair advantage over players who spend time."

[BrainSplatter]

Is there any news about server merges, finally? The playerbase needs to be consolidated.

[DarkSaberMaster]

Shark bait oohh ha ha.

[DevonDs]

It's very hard to ignore the various harbingers of doom that have popped up over the months. Since my own rp server (Lord Kalypho) has turned into a ghost fleet, i abandoned my IA and went to a better populated server. This is within 6 months of playing. Something I never thought that I would have been doing in the first year.

 

I have defended swtor tooth and nail since day one, but even i had a bit of "oh dear...maybe I have been wrong" as I was re-rolling another character last night.

 

So being honest, are any of the die hard defenders of the game starting to feel the same way?

 

 

The game is fine, the forums are overwrought with people acting out their chicken little FTP is falling neurosis.

[Shingara]

As you seem to be selective copying how about from the same person/same article......

 

Even with select copying can you trade gems for gold and gold for gems, answer = yes can you buy gems with real money answer = yes. btw, they are a f2p game how in the name of jesus did you think they were going to make there money back exactly. either way its getting off topic and i can see your getting upset.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Shingara

[DuckKing]

Even with select copying can you trade gems for gold and gold for gems, answer = yes can you buy gems with real money answer = yes. btw, they are a f2p game how in the name of jesus did you think they were going to make there money back exactly. either way its getting off topic and i can see your getting upset.

 

Have you taken a break from these forums today? I leave for three hours and come back and your still posting everywhere continually. If I honestly stuck around here all day on swtor's plagued forum my eyes would literally bleed. You my friend are on a mission...

Edited June 19, 2012 by DuckKing

[Shingara]

Have you taken a break from these forums today? I leave for three hours and come back and your still posting everywhere continually. If I honestly stuck around here all day on swtor's plagued forum my eyes would literally bleed. You my friend are on a mission...

 

Nah lol, ive got an operation tommorow on my shoulder so ive been told to stay awake, these meds they have given me are doing a good job of keeping me awake though, im as high as a kite.

[Sanxxx]

Nah lol, ive got an operation tommorow on my shoulder so ive been told to stay awake, these meds they have given me are doing a good job of keeping me awake though, im as high as a kite.

 

Ah, drugs, that explains it

[Sanxxx]

Even with select copying can you trade gems for gold and gold for gems, answer = yes can you buy gems with real money answer = yes. btw, they are a f2p game how in the name of jesus did you think they were going to make there money back exactly. either way its getting off topic and i can see your getting upset.

 

Yes, your assertion of P2W has moved to how do they make a profit. In any event lets stick to SWTOR discussions only.

[Tiergan_Manasa]

It's very hard to ignore the various harbingers of doom that have popped up over the months. Since my own rp server (Lord Kalypho) has turned into a ghost fleet, i abandoned my IA and went to a better populated server. This is within 6 months of playing. Something I never thought that I would have been doing in the first year.

 

I have defended swtor tooth and nail since day one, but even i had a bit of "oh dear...maybe I have been wrong" as I was re-rolling another character last night.

 

So being honest, are any of the die hard defenders of the game starting to feel the same way?

 

Honestly? No. I don't know what the profit margin is, but I seriously doubt the game will be closing anytime soon.

 

Honestly, it is just a video game. No one should be stressing over this. At all. Play or don't. The world will spin regardless.

[Shingara]

Yes, your assertion of P2W has moved to how do they make a profit. In any event lets stick to SWTOR discussions only.

 

i dont understand how you can not realise that if you can buy gems, trade gems for gold, spend gold, either way swtor is not in any danger, if anything when people hit gw2 and realise the MT stuff they will come back because its cheaper to play here.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Shingara

[Soluss]

Just a second but let me see if im getting this right, you think at top lvl in guildwars 2 that no matter what you wear in pvp everyone will be equal, that there is no gear train at all, there there is no point todo anything or buy anything ever because you could wear any old skanky armour and be as good as someone who has done the hardest things or earned gotten the hardest to get items.

 

So how do they make money in gw2 again ?

 

"Everyone plays at the same level in Guild Wars 2 PvP, where skill and strategy provide players with the winning edge. All players are set to max level and given all the skills and gear they need to meet their opponents on even terms."

 

http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/pvp/

 

GW2 makes money from box sales and cosmetic MT's

 

users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-2.png

 

My retort. This is taken from an ex swg developer blog. I will take his word over some site that just guesses.

 

"So we were given the directive to make Galaxies better.

 

Not just make Galaxies better, but make it succesful. Not the 200k

subs it had, but really succesful. The idea was that we had the most

valuable IP in the entire world, and we ****ed it up to the point of

having 200k subs.

 

And yes, all 200k of you were important, but 200k means nothing in the

scheme of things.

I worked on Galaxies for around 5 and a half years. That’s a long time.

 

I wrote the combat system, mission system, spawning system. I wrote

the combat model for JTL, implemented all of the development tools and

ship interior systems and more.

 

Hell, I implemented the original Jedi System in 2 weeks after we

launched. Not because it was how we wanted it, but because we had 2

weeks to do it.

 

I have the understanding of where we went wrong and how. I see the

misteps and how the experience was misaligned with what most people

wanted from a Star Wars game.

 

So, when the NGE push came along, we were asked to reimagine the game.

 

Not just small changes, but rebuild it.

 

And it was needed. When we were asked, we were bleeding subscribers.

 

If I remember correctly, somewhere around 10k a month. LOSING 10,000

subs a month.

Note – I think our subs were closer to 160-180 than 200k. It was a bad financial situation no matter how you look at it.

 

It was not idyllic. You can remember it as an amazing game, but it wasn’t.

 

Hell, all of you who recall the grand ole days of launch seem to

conveniently forget that everyone quit shortly afterwards"

 

source: http://rubenfield.com/?p=86

[MaverickXIV]

Its childish?

Yes.

 

Why is leaving a game if you lose all of your chars childish?

You didn't lose any of your character. To say so is childish hyperbole.

 

We play that game with our chars, if they are gone or are left alone on a dead server with 23 others where you had 1000 before then this is a serious issue.

You didn't have 1000 on your origin server, and you are not stuck on your "dead" server.

 

I do know that names, server community are not important for everyone but for me these things are a key element in an MMO. And as I said, i had the same situation at AoC and Warhammer - you may laugh but I seem to be very unlucky there, its like a repeating nightmare that occured the 3rd time now.

This is your only legitimate gripe. To quit because of this is fine. To quit because of this to "send a message" is childish. No one important is hearing your message, anyhow.

 

And I doubt I am alone with that issue, this thread and others do prove that the whole transfer move of BW was not very well done

It was well done. You are a casualty, a very small portion of the overall player base. Casualties happen. Accepting this, knowing why it had to be done, why it was better overall for the game, and moving on is the mature thing to do. Saying "but what about me?" is childish.

 

necessary at some servers yes - but at all? I doubt that

It's not necessary for all. The ones that it wasn't necessary for were the destination servers, and maybe Lord Adraas.

 

especially if I look at my server which had pvp action all day, planets with enough players for multiple hero quest´s etc.

From your perspective, that is.

 

You might have been lucky regarding the transfers but not everyone was. Even if 70% were happy and 30% unhappy then those 30% are too many allready.

Yeah, that 30% is too many. You're grossly overestimating the amount of people who are upset enough about this to quit. A vast majority don't really care in the first place.

 

I quit because I dont have the time to start from 0 and playing with only 23 others is pretty much pointless in an MMO, something you should also understand.

You don't have to start from 0. Your insistence that you do is the childish part.

 

I wasnt happy when they added dps meters

They didn't add DPS meters. They added combat logs that cannot be seen by anyone else.

 

announced LFG

I'm no fan of LFG myself, but where do you think you'll go that doesn't have a worse version in place?

 

cancelled solo rated or lowered the graphics for those with bad pc´s

Oh, you're one of those people.

 

did I quit? No I didnt

No, but I bet if I looked through your post history I would find you you whining about all of those, which brings us to...

 

so calling me a child is just

Accurate.

[Taurusaud]

did you say gems yes ?

 

 

 

http://uk.pc.ign.com/articles/122/1221286p1.html

 

also the rumors were quashed by the article saying f2p by it being retracted for being taken out of context, all it was refering to is free access to lvl 15 trial and they would look at f2p in the future over the next decade. And i didnt want to burst your bubble but hey you forced me.

 

First off, where is a link to this retraction? The most I know is the original article was taken down, that doesn't mean the developer's words were out of context - for all we know he could have been divulging information that BW simply isn't ready to announce publicly yet; or they may even have been testing the waters to see how public reaction would be.

 

And secondly, from that article it appears you're right, you can convert gold to gems and back. Only according to that article the exchange rate is determined by the players, for a currency that buys aesthetic stuff. You're still not able to purchase any PvP/PvE gear because that is bought with karma (which you get from events in pve and taking towers/castles in pvp).

 

The gold/gem buying has changed since last I read, but I still think it's a preferable system to Runescape/MapleStory for 3 reasons:

 

1) the store only sells aesthetic stuff (or an EXP boost... big deal you're gonna level either way just playing the game),

2) players determine how much this aesthetic stuff is actually worth, and likewise you can purchase anything in the cash-shop with gold if someone is selling gems,

3) Karma can't be bought, so the game still has an independent currency system where what you do influences what you can afford (and that's the system where the gear is sold).

 

I think it's a slippery slope, and the game isn't live yet so I'm sure this will probably go through more changes again. It also remains to be seen how much gems will be valued by players. But with all these details, while potentially controversial this situation isn't as simple as "pay to win" like you're claiming it is, and it's a much preferable "cash-shop" than what I've seen in other games, in fact I think it goes without saying that should the need arise we'd rather see this model implemented in TOR over Runescape's model. But I will withhold further judgement until I see it in practice.

[Shingara]

"Everyone plays at the same level in Guild Wars 2 PvP,

where skill and strategy provide players with the winning edge. All players are set to max level and given all the skills and gear they need to meet their opponents on even terms."

 

http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/pvp/

 

GW2 makes money from box sales and cosmetic MT's

 

 

 

My retort. This is taken from an ex swg developer blog. I will take his word over some site that just guesses.

 

"So we were given the directive to make Galaxies better.

 

Not just make Galaxies better, but make it succesful. Not the 200k

subs it had, but really succesful. The idea was that we had the most

valuable IP in the entire world, and we ****ed it up to the point of

having 200k subs.

 

And yes, all 200k of you were important, but 200k means nothing in the

scheme of things.

I worked on Galaxies for around 5 and a half years. That’s a long time.

 

I wrote the combat system, mission system, spawning system. I wrote

the combat model for JTL, implemented all of the development tools and

ship interior systems and more.

 

Hell, I implemented the original Jedi System in 2 weeks after we

launched. Not because it was how we wanted it, but because we had 2

weeks to do it.

 

I have the understanding of where we went wrong and how. I see the

misteps and how the experience was misaligned with what most people

wanted from a Star Wars game.

 

So, when the NGE push came along, we were asked to reimagine the game.

 

Not just small changes, but rebuild it.

 

And it was needed. When we were asked, we were bleeding subscribers.

 

If I remember correctly, somewhere around 10k a month. LOSING 10,000

subs a month.

Note – I think our subs were closer to 160-180 than 200k. It was a bad financial situation no matter how you look at it.

 

It was not idyllic. You can remember it as an amazing game, but it wasn’t.

 

Hell, all of you who recall the grand ole days of launch seem to

conveniently forget that everyone quit shortly afterwards"

 

source: http://rubenfield.com/?p=86[/url

]

 

There's no pay to win in GW2 anybody claiming as such now after clarifications that have gone out are simply whiners unhappy with having a cash shop at all. I'll be playing both TOR and GW2 and don't see why there has to be an TOR vs GW2 argument.

 

http://uk.pc.ign.com/articles/122/1221286p1.html read this

 

what were we saying, ow yes, what else is there to worry about, MoP by the time that thing comes out god knows how many people will have played it already due to free access to beta when they bought the AP and got d3 for free, black market selling bis items. should we worry, not really.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Shingara

[Morrolan]

i dont understand how you can not realise that if you can buy gems, trade gems for gold, spend gold, either way swtor is not in any danger, if anything when people hit gw2 and realise the MT stuff they will come back because its cheaper to play here.

 

There's no pay to win in GW2 anybody claiming as such now after clarifications that have gone out are simply whiners unhappy with having a cash shop at all. I'll be playing both TOR and GW2 and don't see why there has to be an TOR vs GW2 argument.

[Taurusaud]

Nah lol, ive got an operation tommorow on my shoulder so ive been told to stay awake, these meds they have given me are doing a good job of keeping me awake though, im as high as a kite.

 

Lucky you I'm coming off those today after 8 days on them. Not fun.

Good luck on the op.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Taurusaud

[Shingara]

Lucky you I'm coming off those today after 8 days on them. Not fun.

Good luck on the op.

 

ty, its only a new pin so it shouldnt be to bad.

[ztooG_]

I still enjoy this game, and I'll enjoy it a lot more when 1.3 is finally out. I do not think the game is in trouble or will be anytime soon.

[Boredmuse]

Yes, thats exactly what it means when a planned subscription based MMO forced to go F2P. And lets be honest, if TOR goes 100% F2P, its because it was forced to. The original model had TOR receiving monthly subs for a number of years at a certain population rate! Which its clearly not hitting.

 

TOR is indeed in trouble. Like every other MMO since WOW that used the fast and easy and sloppy model, they have failled to retain the majority share of their subscribers.

 

That doesnt mean TOR is a terrible game, just a poorly thought out one.

 

TOR hits the mark on a number of items but failed to learn about the industry enough to understand what is required in all MMOs (in TOR case it lacks social content and community building content. Concepts that can be acheived through a variety of meathods, yet TOR failled to impliment any of them).

 

Honestly I think its safe to say TOR has been a grand disappointment as a MMO.

Not a failure quite yet, but they are hoovering in that area and the immediate future is very important to their long term ranking as bust or break even release (Its pretty clear success and massive success rankings passed them by now).

 

Its a real shame to. Back in Oct 08 when this game was announced, I had visions of such grandeur for this game and its pretty much come up short in every area but storyline. But even with storyline, they rush you through it so fast its also not all it could have been.

 

At this point in time Im just hoping the industry has learned finally the WOW design of fast, easy, sloppy doesnt work for long term subscription retention. But I said same thing after Rift when the model was clearly not working for them long term wise. So who knows if companies learning and getting the message yet?

 

This is a very well thought out and written post. I agree 100%. At this point the best TOR can hope to do is stay alive and have enough subs to be mildly profitable. This game had so much potential, all squandered.

[AslanisKing]

Its been so many years, people forget that WoW had a time where they consolidated servers and gave everyone free transfers. Coincidentally, after they did so WoW had a rise in population that didn't quit.

 

Does this mean SWToR is going to get more populated? Not necessarily. But look, it doesn't mean its dying either. Canderous Ordo now has QUEUES! Yes, people have had to wait to log in. I have been in a Imperial Fleet 2! At 3am there was still over 100 people in fleet. I have had tons of heroics, and FP's and great PVP since transfers started.

 

This can only be good for the game as more friends = more fun.

As more fun spreads people get their RL friends back in the game and they discover 'hey this ain't so dead anymore, and now group finder is coming soon!' wish list!

 

Lets give it time. If the game does die and I move to Pandaland or whatever, well, I loved the time spent in the SW Universe and the memories can't die.

[Soluss]

http://uk.pc.ign.com/articles/122/1221286p1.html read this

 

what were we saying, ow yes, what else is there to worry about, MoP by the time that thing comes out god knows how many people will have played it already due to free access to beta when they bought the AP and got d3 for free, black market selling bis items. should we worry, not really.

 

Im not quite sure why you linked that article to me. All it does is prove my point to you more... which is that you cannot pay to win in GW2. You can buy gems with cash and trade for gold yes. However the only thing gems will buy, as explained in the article, is cosmetic items and quality of life items such as extra character slots. You cannot buy gear in GW2 period.

 

Did you even read my post?

[Shingara]

First off, where is a link to this retraction?

 

Sorry missed this, didnt mean to, wasnt dodging your question and just noticed it, the retracted article was the one from the dev who said we are looking into f2p, we are defo interested and its in the works but i cant say, emmanuel something, the original article was on gamestm but its since been retracted.