FULL AUTO AND MORTAR VOLLEY: Blatantly Broken

[Ezio-Auditore]

http://torwars.com/wp-content/uploads/Podcasts/fan_sum_02_qa_georg_zoeller.mp3

 

In this interview Georg Zoeller addresses the delay between the sages project spell (which I believe he said hits about. 8 or. 9 seconds in) and the sorcery equivalent (with a .3 second delay). While the full auto problem is probably just a bug/they accidentally made them different (I believe there is a similar problem with an IA/smuggler cooldown), the project issue parallels the mortar volley issue. He says in the interview that some players may "feel" it but that it is not a high priority fix.

 

From a pvp perspective small differences like this are game changing. My shadow friend has not been able to stop objective caps before because of the project delay, and I've felt the same when using MV to stop multiple cappers that are out of LoS in alderaan.

 

We should press this point so that it gets a fix. The sith are already more popular on pvp servers (source: http://www.swtorprogress.com), having their animations being faster as well is ridiculous. Bumping this thread is helpful, but we should really try to get this idea spread throughout the community. If more people complain, it will hopefully get fixed.

 

As far as getting the word out, I think our best bet is to make sure popular swtor streamers and community site managers/editors know.

 

TL:DR its not high priority atm, get people to get angry about it

[ForceMaster]

I totally agree OP. I've been finding that Mortar volley is pretty useless on PvP unless the enemy can't see you using the ability (I only use it on PvE as a pull/crowd control)

[Dashall]

How does this have 17 pages? It's entirely wrong.

 

 

As someone who played a mercenary in beta, both of those problems exist for mercenaries as well. The reason that Mortar Volley has a delay on it is ACTUALLY TO MAKE THE CLASSES EVEN, as Bounty Hunters have a 2 second animation where they launch their jetpack into the air before the damage begins. Unload, the Bounty hunter equivalent, also loses a tick if you are attacked, just like every other channeled spell in the game.

 

Hi. Checked out your Merc vid (good vid btw), at ~ 1 minute in you demo the Merc Death From Above ability, mirror to Trooper Mortar Volley:

 

http://youtu.be/_b7LesO6DLo?t=59s

 

Hard to see here but looks like your ability is firing at about 1.8 seconds or so remaining in the cast. Is that right? Possibly changed since that video was done? After doing MR last night a number of times on my Commando to compare, mine fires at about 1.0 -1.2 seconds to go. Put another way, it's nearly a full second slower than the video shows.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Dashall

[Varcan]

ALthough being a Vanguard I wouldn't mind if they made the delay the same, I personally will take the delay over being 10ft off the ground so every jedi in a 30m radius instantly jumps me.

 

There's stuns and cc's other players can use to make sure Mortar Volley lands. Nothing can make the BH "Kill me now sign" less visible.

[Sookster]

There's a thread on this in the PvP forums, with video comparisons to BH's DFA and unload it's somewhat noticeable. I think they both do the same cast time and damage, but the animations are way off which makes it look deceiving and it gets very irritating after a while.

 

PS- CRISGG, get off your beta experience and roll a BH NOW, it isn't the same as beta.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Sookster

[Cronhour]

Guys, it isn't that hard:

 

Pulse Cannon is a Channeled spell. There is one hit after the spell is cast. Taking damage will push back the progress bar, thus delaying that hit. You will get the full effect of the attack if you are getting hit repeatedly, but the DPS (Damage per Second) will not be efficient; your DPS/Ammo will drop because of longer casting times.

 

Auto Fire is a Concentration spell. In this spell three hits will generate with no interference. Essentially you need a minimum time to perform each attack, that's why there is a delay for the first damage to be generated. Taking damage harms your concentration, thus it removes the total time on your casting bar and you then get less hits on the spell.

 

Both of these you should try to avoid using while taking damage, but especially Auto Fire.

 

Concentration spells are working as intended, and are prevalent in many games. A perfect example would be the Mage's Arcane Missles spell without any talents (it has been a while since I played wow, they may have changed how that spell works.

 

I hope this clears thing up a bit better for you guys new to this type of game. If you want the full hits in on Auto Fire, make sure you CC (Crowd Control) the target first or get the Tank to get Aggro back.

 

you come across as very condescending, it undermines your attempts at providing information.

[KitCross]

I agree with the OP. Please fix this.

[onethreeone]

+1

 

Very disappointing that a Dev hasn't responded to this thread. Say it's working as intended, or admit it's a bug, and give a very rough timeline (e.g. next patch, a long time from now because it's low priority, etc.)

 

I can forgive many things with the launch, including these animations int their current state, but a lack of customer service is a very bad sign.

[SpotlessMind]

i didn't get to read through the whole thread, but was it designed this way for skills to have a delay time or is it a bug?

 

I am a Vanguard. I find that my skills don't fire off immediately as I press the keys and it just feels really clunky. I thought it was due to WZ lag. BW needs to fix this ASAP!! PvP feels so segmented and broken.

Edited January 3, 2012 by SpotlessMind

[Killadrix]

Please .. for the love of God stop using WoW speak.

 

It isn't a spell.

 

Except for the fact that it says on the tooltip:

 

Channeled: 3 seconds

[Garodan]

-Two separate classes. Trying to say that abilities from different classes should be the exact same because they look/name similar is foolish. You have no idea of what balancing issues BW had in mind for how these abilities work. The class is more than just the sum of one/two abilities.

 

-Read what I said, there is a difference between "channeled" and "concentrated." Full Auto is a concentrated spell.

 

The classes are the exact same way in every single way.

 

They have the same abilities with different names and effects. They have the same talents with different names.

 

 

The issue we are talking about, that you missed, is that the mirror abilities aren't behaving as they should, with trooper abilities having restrictions that the same abilities on bounty hunters do not have.

 

Again, they are NOT seperate classes.

[krameriffic]

i didn't get to read through the whole thread, but was it designed this way for skills to have a delay time or is it a bug?

 

I am a Vanguard. I find that my skills don't fire off immediately as I press the keys and it just feels really clunky. I thought it was due to WZ lag. BW needs to fix this ASAP!! PvP feels so segmented and broken.

 

There is no way mortar volley is working as intended. You fire the third mortar about a full second AFTER you're done channeling the ability. You can have your next skill firing off before that last mortar hits. I don't think I've ever had it miss the third mortar tick, but it might have happened.

 

Now, full auto is also definitely messed up, and not just visually. Since you can suffer pushback and lose damage ticks, it is very easy to only deal 2/3 of the damage that it should because the last tick disappears if you get hit even once. And this is with the talent that reduces pushback by 75%. Apparently (I haven't tried it myself) the BH's unload does not lose damage ticks even if you take a lot of hits while firing it off.

[noequity]

The issue with the channeled trooper abilities -- mortar volley and full auto -- is part of a larger discussion taking place here:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=119676

 

Many classes report ability lags, delay in channeled abilities, animation having preference over cast bars, and other timing related glitches at great length. I believe there are over 3000 replies and counting.

 

I would humbly suggest that troopers post there as well as it may help fix the general game mechanics underlying our trooper specific problems.

[ABRY]

During beta Mortar volley would start shooting at the beginning of the induction and fire more rounds. Now there is a 1-1.5 sec delay before it does anything, meaning in pvp you are interupted before a skill that cost 3 ammo even does 1 point of damage. This was broken/nerfed in november with no real explanation.... If they wanted to spread the damage out, they should have done shot...shot...shot, not ............shot.shot.shot.

 

 

Full auto is working as intended though, it does good damage for it's cost. There are skills that make it more useful, If you spend the points. Most people don't spend those points though.

[RussSWE]

Very well said 100% agreed!

[krameriffic]

During beta Mortar volley would start shooting at the beginning of the induction and fire more rounds. Now there is a 1-1.5 sec delay before it does anything, meaning in pvp you are interupted before a skill that cost 3 ammo even does 1 point of damage. This was broken/nerfed in november with no real explanation.... If they wanted to spread the damage out, they should have done shot...shot...shot, not ............shot.shot.shot.

 

 

Full auto is working as intended though, it does good damage for it's cost. There are skills that make it more useful, If you spend the points. Most people don't spend those points though.

 

Ehh... full auto is worth it if you aren't getting hit, which is uncommon in solo PvE situations and often in dungeons where enemies AoE. If you suffer pushback and only land two hits, it's not any more efficient or damaging than using grav round, plus it takes longer due to the channel.

[Sovietik]

Mortar volley is still heavily bugged, dunno for Full auto, I might get used to it.

 

 

This is a real PITA in PVP, as the dmg seems to appear only 1.5sec after the beginning of the channeling, and the enemmies have a lot of time to get away.

 

Please fix this ASAP.

[Valiusha]

This needs bump. And a fix!

[OnTheEdge]

I agree with you completely! I main trooper and about 40 levels I constantly saw mortar from a cool PvE essential to a useless PvP tool. It's great when they're a mass of enemies not even focusing on you and you just rain down the shots, but come on, that happens what, 10% of the time in your PvP matches? The delay should be decreased. I do like how the trooper has to set up. I wouldnt mind if the animation (made shorter) would play and NO AoE indication of where it will hit till the first shot is fired. Just my thoughts :3

[PanzerKpw]

BioWare, when are you going to do something about this?

The delay and pushback is totally messed up and I'm not even talking about Death From Above animation which is very hard to target in PvP.

[PocketHealer]

I'm getting sick of this. Numerous times in PVP i have died in a fight because full auto has bugged out and not done anything yet i still get stuck in the channel action. More often than not it can happen MULTIPLE TIMES. This needs to be fixed as a gunnery commando full auto is the crux of our whole class with all high tier talents and procs working off or for it.

 

Also Bounty Hunters have it sooo good compared to us. I see them use Death from Above and they jump up and start shooting near instantly. I am feeling really gimped by the way our Mortar Volley works. It's so slow and delayed.

 

These 2 problems need to be addressed it is literall ruining my gameplay for this class

 

Can Bioware at least acknowledge this problem. :(

 

From a sad Gunnery Commando.

[raduph]

Agreed, these 2 abilities need fixing ASAP. I feel gimped compared to bounty hunters. I've seen people saying "NGHHH ITS DIFFERENT CLASSES...ranting... DERP".

Untrue, they are mirrored classes otherwiese Empire faction will have a clear advantage.

Its like a same model car except one is blue the other is red...

In this case the trooper version has a missing door or some ****. Please adress this.

[ellrando]

The game isnt balanced imps have the advantage i get the feeling that the larger part of the devs and the testers all when imp leaving them far more refined and better to play ill use the fact that imps dominate pvp as my example.

[Hyfy]

Actually the BH and Trooper are not mirrored. The only ones technically mirrored are the warrior/knight and inquisitor/consular. The other 4 are more of an amalgation of mixed abilities that kind of each take from the non similar class. IE. blasters being shared between Bounty Hunters and Smugglers. While medium armor is shared between Smugglers and Agents. Alternatively rifles are shared between Agents and Troopers. So while the Hunter and Trooper are meant to be either tank/healer or DPS they aren't just blindly mirrored.

 

Anyways my over arching point is you just have to use the abilities you have to the best possibility they can be used

[IlexGlabra]

The game isnt balanced imps have the advantage i get the feeling that the larger part of the devs and the testers all when imp leaving them far more refined and better to play ill use the fact that imps dominate pvp as my example.

 

Imps dominate PvP because they play better. I know a lot of Reps have a hard time accepting that, but it's the truth. Yes, there are some imbalances such as the animation timings which may marginally contribute to this, but ultimately team work and a focus on objectives is what leads the Empire to dominate over the Republic, whose players so often run around like headless chicken, charge solo into a group of enemies, or who just plain ignore the objectives.