Nolimit_SS Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Bumping great guide for more people too see or contribute to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noriney Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Thanks for the great post and "theorycrafted" information you gave. Currently my DPS is feeling way better with rage than annihilation, not to mention carnage. That said, i have to admit spending a lot more time on warfronts than running flashpoints to test. For PVP, its rage. No doubt. There's just one issue i came across with while using the rage spec for PVE, namely the reliability of AoE effects on single target fights. Even if i felt that picking rage is better for DPS out - its getting way harder to perform well without breaking CC or stuff like this in major group fights. I won't say you can't manage performing equally professional in raids with rage, positioning and movement is quite important for sure, but it WILL get tricky at some point. Thus, annihilation got its place for me. I definitely love playing rage, but i won't go for nuts with it. Just my 2 cents :> Edited January 16, 2012 by Noriney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmopilot Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 After 2 weeks of testing Rage i admit that rage is the best for pvp but not for pve. For trash mobs in Fp's it's really nice, but in boss fights i'll stick with carnage so far, until i have tested annhilation. So if you want to rock pvp take rage but if you want deal nice dmg on bosses in raids, you'll have to take carnage/annhilation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnshnwng Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 TORhead is the inferior database. KnoTOR is much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleftheria Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 After 2 weeks of testing Rage i admit that rage is the best for pvp but not for pve. For trash mobs in Fp's it's really nice, but in boss fights i'll stick with carnage so far, until i have tested annhilation. So if you want to rock pvp take rage but if you want deal nice dmg on bosses in raids, you'll have to take carnage/annhilation i'd go with annihlation instead of carnage if you're 50,cause carnage got a bug to it atm on long fights,resulting in a lot of DPS loss(you'll notice it mostly on operations fight). and yea rage is a nice spec,and it might be top DPS indeed,but fact that most FP bosses knock you down on charge/obliterate,plus charge sometime put you in front of boss and you're cleaved,make it a bit awkward,but still its a great spec in general!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgha Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I made my own rage spec before coming to this thread and I only have made it thru page 13 so far so somebody may have mentioned it, but why do you have 2 in brutality? You use vicious slash? I find myself never using it since I always have something else better to use than wasting my rage on it. I have my 2 points in payback instead, since it has SOME usefulness rather than boosting the crit of an ability that I may as well take off my taskbar... Especially when you don't want to be respecing for pvp, payback is nice to have. I also have 2 in defensive roll and only 1 in narrowed hatred. This is definitely a preference here but I think that 30% reduced damage on aoe (which is generally the majority of any damage you take in pve) is nicer than 2% to accuracy. I'm not exactly sure how great 2% to accuracy is, but I feel like taking a third less damage from aoe's is pretty damn nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayc Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Interesting. Never gave rage a shot. Is it worth to try at 44 or wait til 50 and geared? This post amuses me. ./necro I highly doubt rage is higher dps than carnage/annihilation in PvE, at least on boss fights. Its a burst spec tied to skills with 21s/50s cooldowns. My experience is that rage is poor for endgame pve(although great for pvp), but I'm not all that good with rage, so its rather biased. Edited January 17, 2012 by Sayc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethern Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I made my own rage spec before coming to this thread and I only have made it thru page 13 so far so somebody may have mentioned it, but why do you have 2 in brutality? You use vicious slash? I find myself never using it since I always have something else better to use than wasting my rage on it. I have my 2 points in payback instead, since it has SOME usefulness rather than boosting the crit of an ability that I may as well take off my taskbar... Especially when you don't want to be respecing for pvp, payback is nice to have. I also have 2 in defensive roll and only 1 in narrowed hatred. This is definitely a preference here but I think that 30% reduced damage on aoe (which is generally the majority of any damage you take in pve) is nicer than 2% to accuracy. I'm not exactly sure how great 2% to accuracy is, but I feel like taking a third less damage from aoe's is pretty damn nice. Vicous slash is precisely for the situations in which you can't not aoe and thus use smash. You compensate the dps loss somewhat that way. Secondly, I don't think those two points in pushback are the thing to do. Either you have a full pve build or a full pvp spec. If it works for you, why not Finally I agree with you on the defensive roll. I put two points in that talent instead of the quick recovery one in the annihilation tree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgha Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Vicous slash is precisely for the situations in which you can't not aoe and thus use smash. You compensate the dps loss somewhat that way. Secondly, I don't think those two points in pushback are the thing to do. Either you have a full pve build or a full pvp spec. If it works for you, why not Finally I agree with you on the defensive roll. I put two points in that talent instead of the quick recovery one in the annihilation tree. Whoa. You definitely need quick recovery. Rage is all about smash. Also, payback has nothing to do with pushback. And I would argue there is virtually never a time that you can't use smash--- you just need to position intelligently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethern Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Whoa. You definitely need quick recovery. Rage is all about smash. Also, payback has nothing to do with pushback. And I would argue there is virtually never a time that you can't use smash--- you just need to position intelligently. I'm tired, I mixed two talents. As for smash and quick recovery, I noticed I did not need this talent in my rotation. I only use it for crits and it is already ready when I have the dominate and shockwave buffs. I'll do further tests and see if it is really wrong to not have quick recovery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgha Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I'm tired, I mixed two talents. As for smash and quick recovery, I noticed I did not need this talent in my rotation. I only use it for crits and it is already ready when I have the dominate and shockwave buffs. I'll do further tests and see if it is really wrong to not have quick recovery. Not only is it CD reduction but more importantly it reduces it to 1 rage cost (down 2). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moomies Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I tried both Annihilation & Carnage so I will put my 2 cents here. Annihilation: Steady dmg wise, its the best skill tree for dmg really... The continuous dmg while building rage for the next combos is just great. IMO if ur looking for pure dmg this skill tree is best. Carnage: Now this tree is fun! Its also where you can output the highest dmg with Force scream @lv45 you can output 2.1K dmg on a mob best conditions and 1.5K with average conditions every 9s. The downside is that after the force scream make sure you have enough rage for Massacre but with Enrage slash it should give Massacre an edge. Displacement, Overwhelm and Unbound are worth mentioning for pvp. Personally I went for Carnage. Cheerz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoseman Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 While i think all this theory crafting is great and i love the thread so far. A lot of you seem to miss the fact that there are no parses or hard math on any of this yet and should just honestly play the spec you feel most comfortable with. My opinion though is that annihilation seems to be the most consistent high end pve dps with respect to little to no downtime (i.e. on boss 90% or higher) Annihilate itself ive seen consistently crit for 2.5 - 3k Bleeds critting from 600 - 1200 (btw i have no idea how i keep seeing my bleed tick for over 1k i hope someone can enlighten me here) and the fastest rage builder of any of the specs help to provide those all important buffs or enrage. Rage - shines in PVP Carnage - Sucks.... it has consistently LOW damage. so TLDR Annihilation ftw! wtb combat parse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayc Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (btw i have no idea how i keep seeing my bleed tick for over 1k i hope someone can enlighten me here) Its your deadly saber DoT with 3 stacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethern Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Not only is it CD reduction but more importantly it reduces it to 1 rage cost (down 2). That' what I said. I don't need this CD reduction for it does not match with the dominate and shockwave CDs and since we use battering assault early in the rotation, this one rage point saved is pale in comparison of a 30% aoe damage reduction given by defensive roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgha Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 That' what I said. I don't need this CD reduction for it does not match with the dominate and shockwave CDs and since we use battering assault early in the rotation, this one rage point saved is pale in comparison of a 30% aoe damage reduction given by defensive roll. No, you said you didn't need it for the cooldown--- you didn't mention the rage reduction. It is also two points of rage saved everytime (not one) and you can compare it vs 2% accuracy rather than 30% reduc on aoe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethern Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 No, you said you didn't need it for the cooldown--- you didn't mention the rage reduction. It is also two points of rage saved everytime (not one) and you can compare it vs 2% accuracy rather than 30% reduc on aoe. You lost me completely there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anumetar Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) GREAT discussion. Question: I'm lvl 23... I've done the spec recommended by OP but am wondering if I should have taken the Carnage points before going up to Obliterate? How would you progress this spec? Edited January 17, 2012 by Anumetar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inthracis Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I went from 18th to currently 46th as Rage and I went up the Rage path first. You'll want to get Force Crush as soon as possibile. I really like this spec as I have pretty much zero down time and as long as I don't screw up my rotation I do great damange to group of mobs that die very fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom_Joad Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I'm still trying to work out the results, but using this spec and following the rotation, I got 1048 dps and 955 dps. Going to run some more tests, but starting to rethink this whole spec, and advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgha Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 GREAT discussion. Question: I'm lvl 23... I've done the spec recommended by OP but am wondering if I should have taken the Carnage points before going up to Obliterate? How would you progress this spec? If you never want to respec, fill up rage first to force crush asap. If you don't mind respeccing a couple times, I would recommend you take 1 point in stagger to allow you to savage kick right after charging and go up to obliterate in the rage tree. Then you can fill up the other tree points if you like until you are able to respec and grab force crush. The charge to kick aspect is probably enough in itself to warrant at least 1 respec. It is an extremely strong combo for just 1 talent point while leveling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayc Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 You don't need a point in stagger to charge -> kick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connecticut Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Can you explain how the procs work and how to generate them? Theres a mechanism that gives you 25%, 50% 75% and 100% damage modifier as well as a crit %. I just respced to Rage at lvl 36 and really like it, but Im trying to nail down the theory of how best to dps with it. When I charge, I start stacking one of the procs and when I chock, its the other one? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connecticut Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Figured it out; its the synergy between Dominate and Shockwave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razyr Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Good thread, thanks for the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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