Marauder Q&A - DPS and you.

[Draexnael]

I finally made the switch to Rage. I leveled to 50 as Carnage as it's what I played on Beta and felt comfortable with. I must say, the rotation and proc/buff watching takes some getting used to and I'm still getting acquainted with it, but so far I'm liking it much better than carnage. I really appreciate you putting this guide up here, has really helped me balances some things out. Just one question, to clear up my doubts.. Is vicious slash no longer used as Rage? I've not seen it in the rotations and as someone else pointed out, you could use it for a rage dump but no need as by the time you've gone through the rotation, abilities are back off CD and you start all over.

 

Its usefull if you've got most core abilities on cd, but generally we don't use it as much as other specs. Sadly most Marauders save their Fury for Predatation or Beserk so its not utilised that way in PVP anyway.

[Shadinaxx]

Rage is a very good spec for consistant dps, but I am a carnage build, and I think it's overlooked alot. I run lvl 50 operations as carnage, and while the BH dpsers will drop mobs faster, if the fight is longer, they will overheat. I will not, and with the right rotation priority (carnage doesnt have a "static rotation" you can hit like a macro), we really tear things apart at the 20% mark.

 

I currently have somewhat decent gear (columi 4 piece, and champion gear to fill in), and with my attack speed, I am dealing 1.2k white damage, with the ataru dmg procs averaging around 450-650 (non crits). Ravage deals 1.2k-3.2k per hit, force scream as high as 6.2k (on a burn phase with adrenals and relics active), and viscious throw crits around 8k.

 

The Gore ability in carnage ignoring 100% armor, is a huge benefit, especially on high armor bosses such as Gharj and Soa phases 1 and 2, and if you let Bonethrasher eat a piggy.

 

Thing about what makes carnage excell at add cleanup is that all your "ramp up" abilities that allow you to maximize and utilize your abilities fully, stay with you if you switch targets, unlike a BH that applies a debuff to the current target. This alone makes us carnage marauders the "lawn mower cleanup crew" as I have been called on a couple occasions, lol.

 

Look for a post by Kiba, he posted a very well written guide on Carnage builds and rotations. The marauder is really best tailored by your own playstyle, if you like to bounce around and switch targets alot, Carnage is one of the best specs for you.

 

Kiba's guide can be found here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=72872

[DarkenWulf]

Handy stuff this. Mucho Gracias!

[Ethern]

I finally made the switch to Rage. I leveled to 50 as Carnage as it's what I played on Beta and felt comfortable with. I must say, the rotation and proc/buff watching takes some getting used to and I'm still getting acquainted with it, but so far I'm liking it much better than carnage. I really appreciate you putting this guide up here, has really helped me balances some things out. Just one question, to clear up my doubts.. Is vicious slash no longer used as Rage? I've not seen it in the rotations and as someone else pointed out, you could use it for a rage dump but no need as by the time you've gone through the rotation, abilities are back off CD and you start all over.

Indeed. The rage tree, with brutality and saber strength enhances vicious slash, but it has a little place in the PvE rotation.

[Eleftheria]

Rage is a very good spec for consistant dps, but I am a carnage build, and I think it's overlooked alot. I run lvl 50 operations as carnage, and while the BH dpsers will drop mobs faster, if the fight is longer, they will overheat. I will not, and with the right rotation priority (carnage doesnt have a "static rotation" you can hit like a macro), we really tear things apart at the 20% mark.

 

I currently have somewhat decent gear (columi 4 piece, and champion gear to fill in), and with my attack speed, I am dealing 1.2k white damage, with the ataru dmg procs averaging around 450-650 (non crits). Ravage deals 1.2k-3.2k per hit, force scream as high as 6.2k (on a burn phase with adrenals and relics active), and viscious throw crits around 8k.

 

The Gore ability in carnage ignoring 100% armor, is a huge benefit, especially on high armor bosses such as Gharj and Soa phases 1 and 2, and if you let Bonethrasher eat a piggy.

 

Thing about what makes carnage excell at add cleanup is that all your "ramp up" abilities that allow you to maximize and utilize your abilities fully, stay with you if you switch targets, unlike a BH that applies a debuff to the current target. This alone makes us carnage marauders the "lawn mower cleanup crew" as I have been called on a couple occasions, lol.

 

Look for a post by Kiba, he posted a very well written guide on Carnage builds and rotations. The marauder is really best tailored by your own playstyle, if you like to bounce around and switch targets alot, Carnage is one of the best specs for you.

 

Kiba's guide can be found here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=72872

 

since you raided as carnage,(i raided in all 3 specs i hard modes myself) let me tell you something i noticed about carnage,a bug sort of,posted same thing on sithwarrior.com forums....anyway,during long boss fights in EV,where you stay on same target for sometime,did you notice that for like a whole minute or two mid fight,bloodfrenzy and excutioner stop proccing?even when keeping massacre up?at first i thought i wasnt noticing the graphic effect on my character,then during fights i'd look at muy buff bar,and both wont proc for a minute or two,and to check further,i'd hit force scream,and it'd crit like 25-30% of time(my crit chance)....it's weird,and bad for carnage as those two proccs are key for it,and not talking rng issues,like 10 ,20s without proc,as i said a minute or two ,completely empty of those two proccs....and more weird that it doesnt happen at start of fight nor end,it happen in its mid,and when it proccs back normally i have almost 100% uptime on bloodfrenzy....tried getting out of ataru form,then back into it mid fight but wouldnt work.

 

that's all i think,i got a reply on the other forums that some have noticed same thing,am not a theory crafter or anything,but if this was true,and was case,carnage DPS,will be way lower than others till its fixed

[Shadinaxx]

I did get that as well, an thought that maybe I got a miss on my massacre, or a bloick/dodge/parry an did not see it, altho I am at 112% accuracy. It was not often, but it was there occassionally. It only happened in hard mode tho, so maybe we need to boost our accuracy a few more %

[Eleftheria]

I did get that as well, an thought that maybe I got a miss on my massacre, or a bloick/dodge/parry an did not see it, altho I am at 112% accuracy. It was not often, but it was there occassionally. It only happened in hard mode tho, so maybe we need to boost our accuracy a few more %

 

no its not an accuracy thing,i had my massacre buff always up,and as i said it happens for a minute or two,then its back normal,and bloodfrenzy is up for almost 100%,outside those two minutes,so it definitly isnt a rng thing,like missing or just not proc

[Tom_Joad]

good post following it now, annih wasnt working as well as i expected endgame Edited January 10, 2012 by Tom_Joad

[Shadinaxx]

no its not an accuracy thing,i had my massacre buff always up,and as i said it happens for a minute or two,then its back normal,and bloodfrenzy is up for almost 100%,outside those two minutes,so it definitly isnt a rng thing,like missing or just not proc

 

Just did Hardmode EV tonight, and with 114% accuracy, 1650 str, I got a miss twice. I watched the fraps footage and on the annihilator I noticed that the bloodfrenzy buff fell off three times, just timed out, didnt refresh, even tho I hit massacre, saw the massacre animation, etc.

 

I'm wondering if massacre was suffering the ravage bug, showing the animation, but the ability not going off. When we do EV again later this week after reset, I'll make sure I hit Massacre twice each rotation (gonna kill my total dps) and see if that has any change.

 

@Kiba: I tested the vicious slash vs massacre spam, the numbers are only 5-12 points differant, but in the favor of massacre spam, so you were absolutely right, and I'm adjusting my rage dump phase accordingly, lol

[Kibaken]

Just did Hardmode EV tonight, and with 114% accuracy, 1650 str, I got a miss twice. I watched the fraps footage and on the annihilator I noticed that the bloodfrenzy buff fell off three times, just timed out, didnt refresh, even tho I hit massacre, saw the massacre animation, etc.

 

I'm wondering if massacre was suffering the ravage bug, showing the animation, but the ability not going off. When we do EV again later this week after reset, I'll make sure I hit Massacre twice each rotation (gonna kill my total dps) and see if that has any change.

 

@Kiba: I tested the vicious slash vs massacre spam, the numbers are only 5-12 points differant, but in the favor of massacre spam, so you were absolutely right, and I'm adjusting my rage dump phase accordingly, lol

 

I sped through the updates to this thread and after my second read JUST caught your @Kiba.

 

Thank you for testing that out.

 

What missed? Assault or a special attack? Is that your special or base Accuracy?

 

What's your operating number?

[Tom_Joad]

Also, which buff should we be using, as well as form? Beserk or Predation? Juyo or Shii-Cho?

 

Beserk would seem an obvious answer, but Vicious slash doesn't seem to be in the lineup, and I'm wonder if I would just be gimping myself by using it.

[Eleftheria]

marauder forms are :

 

Annihlation->Juyo

 

Carnage-> Ataru

 

Rage-Shi cho (or whatever i always mispell this name!)

 

as for vicious slash it is used as annihlation/rage as a filler rage spender,in carnage it is replaced completely with massacre after 40

[Zandermill]

Glad to see a lot of views on this thread. Sorry that I'm so far behind, but work work work.

Currently managing a business, and doing submission drafts for Wizards of the Coast as a hobby writer. So the Holidays and aforementioned projects take a lot of time.

 

Kiba I hope you'll have a rage guide up soon. ^_^ I think you're so far one of the better theory crafters in the fourms right now.

 

As for bugs, and accuracy I've noticed that white hit versus yellow hit are similar to wow in that 110% accuracy is a guarantee spot for yellow and it looks like 115% for white hits. This causes a problem for certain specs, as you may lose stacks, or buffs dependent upon white hit confirms.

[Zandermill]

Viscious Slash is a great filler, if you have spare rage, or it's absolutely beast when you're doing a multiple opponent fight and can pop berserk even in end game.

I normally dont include it during standard rotation, but it's always nice to burn your bar, when blood thirst / predation aren't available to give you a few rage free swings with vicious.

Vicious by itself isnt a bad ability. It's just we dont have a lot of availability in rage to use it as often as we should.

Currently after I get free time away from the new gf, work etc. I'll work on some gold mobs to try to get a solid rotation and clean up what I currently offer since I know its a bit buggy.

 

Also did some updating to the first page. Credit to Elof, and Kiba given where due.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Zandermill

[EasymodeX]

Until you get 3 stacks of Annihilator, you will have excess Rage to use on VS in a high-contact fight.

 

Even after you get 3 stacks of Annihilator, you will have a net positive Rage if you don't use VS.

[Ethern]

Until you get 3 stacks of Annihilator, you will have excess Rage to use on VS in a high-contact fight.

 

Even after you get 3 stacks of Annihilator, you will have a net positive Rage if you don't use VS.

I don't think we were arguing having the annihilation spec in mind. The context is more that the Rage tree has two talents that enhances VS, but the dps rotation makes a little place for this ability.

You have to get Force crush, force choke, force scream, smash, obliterate; ravage, etc on CD to even think about using VC. And in theory at least one of those abilities' CD ends before it happens.

[EasymodeX]

Ah my bad, not paying enough attention.

 

As far as Rage ... there's plenty of time to VS in PvE or any other high contact fight. Especially if you pop Berserk. You burn through your triple smash cycle in about 30s, then have downtime for about 20s before you get to triple again.

 

It is an option though depending on what you plan on doing. In PvP you can drop the VS buffs (and Enraged) from your spec, but you cognizantly sacrifice the ability to *** Berserk a healer who has a guardbot (preload Crush on the healer, use Berserk + VS spam on the healer, dealing significant damage to the guardbot, then Oblit+Smash the tank, with extra guard damage from the healer -- the pressure and spike is pretty big; throw a Roar at the end to stop the healer from healing the tank afterwards if it comes to that).

[Kibaken]

Just to but in, during my playing around with Annihilation you will, at times, be using Vicious Slash as a Rage dump. The window to use it is fairly small, though.

[Ethern]

Ah my bad, not paying enough attention.

 

As far as Rage ... there's plenty of time to VS in PvE or any other high contact fight. Especially if you pop Berserk. You burn through your triple smash cycle in about 30s, then have downtime for about 20s before you get to triple again.

 

I won't adress PvP but you 're probably right on that. After all the rotation is still work in progress without the combat log.

[Zandermill]

Just to point out again. You can clip Force Crush at 3 and get another 3 for next go around, if you run out and charge back in. Its what I've been doing a lot. Most of the time though it's either 4/2 or 2/4

[Shadinaxx]

I sped through the updates to this thread and after my second read JUST caught your @Kiba.

 

Thank you for testing that out.

 

What missed? Assault or a special attack? Is that your special or base Accuracy?

 

What's your operating number?

 

It was a a special that missed which boggled my mind, and that is my base accuracy, I'm thinking that for HM operations, we need 120% accuracy (which I'll test this weekend)

 

Maybe we should start a thread called something like "Carnage theorycrafting workshop"

lol

 

I have videos on yuotube of normal mode EV, and this weekend I'll post some of the hardmode versions. I'll PM you the link to my channel so you can double check my math on some parses, etc.

[Eleftheria]

Just to but in, during my playing around with Annihilation you will, at times, be using Vicious Slash as a Rage dump. The window to use it is fairly small, though.

yea you deffo use vicious slash everynow and then as annihlation,especially when you get lucky with proc on the rage return from bleeds

[Zandermill]

Hit 50, have 4 champion pieces, and am really enjoying the strength of rage currently.

Will be updating again soon with more hints and tricks.

[Bloodymoon]

It was a a special that missed which boggled my mind, and that is my base accuracy, I'm thinking that for HM operations, we need 120% accuracy (which I'll test this weekend)

 

Maybe we should start a thread called something like "Carnage theorycrafting workshop"

lol

 

I have videos on yuotube of normal mode EV, and this weekend I'll post some of the hardmode versions. I'll PM you the link to my channel so you can double check my math on some parses, etc.

 

I am at 101,37% Accuracy and never miss a special or main hand hit, if I am not standing in or 180% before an mob.

 

Some mobs are strange in that regard however, since some mobs think standing in the mob is standing a tiny little bit in their model.

[Norumaniac]

This is a great post-.