Marauder Q&A - DPS and you.

[Zandermill]

I've actually updated the front post with a better revision for rotation.

I'm going to be tweaking rotation again if Kick actually works on bosses that are under the affects of Force Crush.

 

I'll have a solid 50 rotation when I'm fifty and make sure things work correctly / figure out if Kick is in fact effective against bosses as a force based attack. One thing I've noticed on bosses such as revan etc. Im gaining fury while not attacking him. I have to assume this is some sort of glitch, or potential from aoe abilities to trigger defensive forms.

 

It's more noticeable from the first boss of Red - for example as he is often cleaving, and throwing crap at people. So fury and in a sense rage generation becomes much smoother in aoe boss fights. This allowing more use of berserk or predation or Blood Thirst. (Note, rage generation can be from free vicious slashs from Berserk if you're still not at Blood Thirst levels, as if you make a mistake in rotation you'll have free generated moves for a small time until you can resume proper rotation)

Edited December 29, 2011 by Zandermill

[Raddpuppy]

I am only level 21 so I certainly cannot speak about end game but I have tried all 3 specs at this level and I like Rage more. Not saying its better but it just feels like it drops enemies faster. Also keep in mind I have not done ANY PVP with this character, ill try it out tonight. My guess would be Rage and Annialation will top the charts. This is not a fact just my opinion and it ultimately comes down to your playstyle. Also who cares if your top on the damage chart if none of the enemies you get the damage on are dead. You might get a huge crit on 5 guys then get slaughterd before you drop one and then they heal up. Im choosing rage because of the crit bonuses. Im personally no good with bleeds and keeping them up, that is a bit more advanced and im just not that good yet.

[EasymodeX]

Im personally no good with bleeds and keeping them up, that is a bit more advanced and im just not that good yet.

 

There's nothing advanced about Annihilation bleeds. Their duration is shorter than their cooldowns, so just use them whenever they light up.

 

Just don't use them on a mob that has 100 hp left. That's kind of a waste.

[Ethern]

I've actually updated the front post with a better revision for rotation.

I'm still using the 25+ rotation since i'm now level 33, and still don't see BA. I have rage building troubles

And your 40+ rotation does not have rupture. It's on purpose?

[Zandermill]

Ethern, I went ahead and posted some of my notes for rotations, including cost for potential rotations. It's on the front page, along with my brief explanation of rupture, and that it basically becomes useless in rotation, esp if Kick becomes useful.

[Hoseman]

this is a very good read and thank you for the time you took to make this thread.

 

I will say this though, without proper basis and understanding that a combat log gives you, not to mention the current flaw with ability lag that is currently in game, how certain are you about your decision on rage? i for one many times have seen hits that i myself didn't intentionally cause in certain tree's, for instance hitting things twice with massacre, or annihilate.

 

Im definitely going to try rage as this is not the first thread Ive seen saying how awesome it is. but i cant help but feel we are just missing too much information to make this blanket determination.

[Zandermill]

You can only take from experience as well as research to determine. If a combat parse shows me wrong, then it does. If it shows me right, then it does. We can only guess at this point and try and make the best educated guesses.

Thanks for your interest in my thread however!

[Psyro]

Kick don´t work they are all slowing immun

[Zandermill]

Yeah/ I was working on it last night.

It's a bummer that so many of our abilities are useless / don't synergize.

Even though Force Crush slows, it doesnt count as a slow even in pvp. So you can't even use it to kick there either.

[DarkDruidSS]

Nice guide, since everything is guessing at this point it's nice that at least someone trying to help out the community.

 

I just find it kinda strange that our shared tree is potentially our best tree. I still think annihilation will pull out way ahead in a raid environment when you have plenty of time to get DoTs rolling, but since I am usually primarily a PvPer tweaking some of your stuff should help me with my decisions moving forward.

 

Thanks for the write up.

[EasymodeX]

Last I checked, raid bosses were Champion mobs. They are unaffected by weak/normal/strong trash-rolling fluff abilities like Pommel Strike.

[Audenlol]

At lvl 38, Force Scream crits for much more than vicious slash

[andretious]

way to mislead people with misinformation. Rage is not the best spec atm. Carnage is for both pve and pvp with a few talents moved around for each.

[Drathmar]

way to mislead people with misinformation. Rage is not the best spec atm. Carnage is for both pve and pvp with a few talents moved around for each.

 

Actually used math in another thread to prove the quickest burst for each, rage has about 4k more burst at lvl 50 (using real nubmers not torheads)

 

I still feel for sustained DPS Annihilation is probably better.

[Carbonated]

I started stacking surge and power due to having stuff that auto crits. just saying. If stacking crit actually got me above 30% id consider crit seems the value returns too low for stacking something that at the end of a day is just a random chance.

[Zandermill]

Smash is the only guaranteed crit we get. It's why I continue to value crit over surge and power. Crit > Surge > Power. Crit functions for everything else you have, from scream, to ravage, to obliterate. It effects everything. More hits that turn into crits > higher top end crits > overall slight increases in damage>

[Carbonated]

Smash is the only guaranteed crit we get. It's why I continue to value crit over surge and power. Crit > Surge > Power. Crit functions for everything else you have, from scream, to ravage, to obliterate. It effects everything. More hits that turn into crits > higher top end crits > overall slight increases in damage>

 

I assume your talking about the rage tree, you also get 15% crit to VS and Ob, and either way it still comes down to random chance, its not a garuntee.

 

Also, thats fine that you stack crit, I stack power and surge. You will have to wait til a parser/combat log comes before we clash epeens over it.

[Wivese]

After reading through a lot of threads in the Marauder forums, I've switched from annihilate spec to rage spec. I think it's important to note that I didn't switch because of any perceived difference in DPS more or less. I switched because the skills I really enjoy using such as choke, smash, and ravage are better suited for rage tree. I think it is more important to feel comfortable playing a class and accentuating your preferences in play style versus scrambling for highest damage output. I enjoy the rage tree it just feels right! Lvl 30 build so far is 1/0/20 but will likely end up going 2/6/33.

[Psyro]

way to mislead people with misinformation. Rage is not the best spec atm. Carnage is for both pve and pvp with a few talents moved around for each.

 

Carnage makes no Dmg compared to Rage i know it because i was Carnage before and was raiding with it and i must say Rage > Anhihilation > Carnage testet all specs in Raid now. Rage makes more DMG than the other Skilltrees.

[Eleftheria]

level 50 marauder here,also tried all 3 specs,done hard mode flashpoints and all,about rage spec,for OP,instead of taking relentless fury talent,take gravity(just a suggestion),as for why,you rarely use predation end game,and gravity reduce rage cost of forcecrush,from 4 rage>3 rage,which is more handy than 5 fury,after using an ability you will almost never use in a pve boss fight.

[Ethern]

level 50 marauder here,also tried all 3 specs,done hard mode flashpoints and all,about rage spec,for OP,instead of taking relentless fury talent,take gravity(just a suggestion),as for why,you rarely use predation end game,and gravity reduce rage cost of forcecrush,from 4 rage>3 rage,which is more handy than 5 fury,after using an ability you will almost never use in a pve boss fight.

That has some merit. I'm waiting more input on that point. I'm not fan either of not maxing one talent.

[Eleftheria]

That has some merit. I'm waiting more input on that point. I'm not fan either of not maxing one talent.

 

well,as i said,i did 4/5 eternity vault hard mode,and never in any fight i had to use predation,to avoid a mechanic or so,infact you need the DPS,so you cant sacrifice berserk at pve environment,so yea,-1 rage,on a 18s cd ability >5 fury on something you dont use imo

[Zandermill]

I recommended it as a raid cool down. I understand it takes away from Blood Thirst as a dps cooldown, however, in terms of end game raiding as more options open, the ability to give a tank even a minor cool down - while refunding fury, allows a faster reintroduction of Blood Thirst.

 

Trust me, I see where you guys are going with gravity and it's effect's on force crush. Basically it will give you an additional rage point every 18 seconds conversely against 5 fury refunded when you have to use predation defensively for raid fights.

 

Also IIRC; I believe a 10% defensive cool down on a tank, is far more effective then one rage refunded every 15-20 seconds. But I also can see Blood Thirsting a party to beat enrages, it's more of a useful tool that will see more action in Raids then elsewhere.

 

You can use and take gravity as it'll alleviate your rotation some, but rotation from a standpoint of what im working on, we have exactly enough to do what needs to be done, excess rage will maybe have a spot to be blown every twenty-five seconds or so.

Edited December 31, 2011 by Zandermill

[Eleftheria]

what you think is right,if you didnt take this in consideration,bloodthirst,and predation arent raid wide CDs they only affect your group aka 4 players,and almost always you want your 4 DPS in same group,to benifit from bloodthirst,as most fight are really really tight on DPS requirements,and never wiped due to tank death(we run 2 healers 1 tank and 5 DPS ) so only time you use predation is for yourself mostly,for faster movement,which as i said,rarely the case,in any hard mode fights,and in my group,always DPS in a group for bloodthirst,while healers tank and last DPS in a group,so they take no benifit from predation or bloodthirst. which is understandable,as i said,you never wipe cause of tank death,you wipe cause of not enough DPS most of fights Edited December 31, 2011 by Eleftheria

[Zandermill]

I understand the fact that it's party wide. However I'd still put a marauder in a tank group, just for the ability to have a spare cool down available for the tank when needed. This may be my nature but as a raid leader in another game, but in a sense I'd believe that tank survivability > minor raid dps boost.

 

The other thing is in a burn phase, no matter who is in your group, they should be doing as much dps as they can, tanks included. The other thing is, right now we are experiencing the growing pains of a new mmo. We dont have meters as everyone is quick to point out. We are doing really intro raids.

 

They will get harder as people get geared, as I cant think that they aren't going to become any easier (allowing that current tier will become easier as gearing / progression advances)

As I said however, if you want to take gravity, go for it. But a current 50 rotation doesn't have a lot of room for extra gcd's if done correctly.

Edited December 31, 2011 by Zandermill