Marauder Q&A - DPS and you.

[solduios]

I would love to point out using Torhead for a basis is wrong, they have bad values for a lot of attacks.

 

They have Annihilate at: 528-808 damage

They have Ravage at: 891-981 damage (which I know is wrong, I hit for over that at lvl 32)

They have Rupture at: 110-170 + 3590 over 6 (direct damage off by a lot)

They have Massacre at: 247-378 damage (***?)

They have Gore at: 253-387

They have Assault at: 224-274

 

 

 

They have Vicious Slash at: 4202-4351

They have Force Charge at: 1347-1437 (***... this is suppose to hit softer than assault)

 

So according to Torhead vicious slash is by far our best melee attack. Ha.. ha.. ?

 

Basically using rage, you are basing it off of force scream, vicious slash, and force smash for your main damage dealers, which all have much higher damage numbers than the main attacks used in both Carnage and Annihilate. The only attack from rage undervalued is obliterate. This is why in theorycrafting rage looks to be the best DPS when in reality it most likely isn't.

 

I think those are base dmg w/o adding in your stats....

[Drathmar]

I think those are base dmg w/o adding in your stats....

 

No, then Vicious Slash would be down where all the other melee attacks are.

[Lostpenguins]

It's not just the crit on Smash. Its the completely passive arp. The increase in all tech crits across the board. Annihilation is the secondary spec I'd run, with carnage dead last. Because Carnage dosent scale at all.

However for the most part. Force Crush replaces Choke - Using choke to generate a clipped 3 second into smash crit, again continues to net what I believe is a dps spike and increase.

Also, Shii form reduces cooldown of all abilities by 3 seconds. So its every 18, not 21.

Also, since Crush and Choke are on seperate cooldowns. You'd rotate them in and out. So you'd have in the course of a minute 4 100%+ damage crit smash that are hitting for 3-3500.

 

Deadly is going to give you 16k over a minute damage.

Smash will have a cooldown of 9 seconds in Rage Obliterate Has a 12 second cooldown.

You can have six smashs in a minute, of which five of them will be crits, four will be 100% empowered crits.

 

If we use Torhead as a basis for smash we get 1538 - 1889

Our non crit average hit will be 1713.5

Our crits will be 2991 - 3683 As we get 30% Force damage. We also have a crit multipler of 50%

Empowered crits should look something like... 5998 - 7367

The numbers above however will be mitigated by armor. I'm just using the baseline values.

If we take an empowered crit, of 5998 - 7367 and take armor value of 50% reduction basically. We can guesstimate that our passive armor penetration will bypass 20% of that reduction, reducing it to 40%

Going from that we'd see a semi real value of 3599 - 4421(topend) Crit against a critter in whatever the value of gear Torhead assumes we'd have. This also actively assumes we are fighting a creature with only a baseline 50% armor.

 

Again. This is off the wall, while at work. If my calculations are off, or if you're a mathematician, and I have made a glaringly obvious mistake, please let me know.

 

However the end of this long boring bunch of numbers is.

Deadly saber does 16k damage over a minute. Smash, if my numbers are correct

Averaged over a minute 4 emp crits = 16040 + 1 crit of 1987 (assuming again 50% armor, after penetration) +1 hit 1028

So Deadly saber, versus Smash has smash edging out with a lead of 3055

 

This is assuming the 4k you were stating from deadly saber has crits added into it.

 

Besides what other people said that Deadly Sabers can be maintained (although not very easily) with it's max ticking damage you're also forgetting that Smash is using GCD's while Deadly Sabers is not. So you have to factor in all the damage you're doing from DS + 6 GCD's from other abilities. Using Torhead's damage for Vicious Slash, that's 24k add'l damage. So that puts means DS is winning by 21k. That goes up a lot more if you can keep DS up which is actually worth it.

 

It's like keeping up Strike Like Iron for warriors in Rift and Rupture for Rogues in WoW.

[DemonSoliloquy]

Deadly saber can do FAR more than 16k dmg a minute. It is completely possible, with good cd management and using the right abilities at the right time, to keep deadly saber up 100% of the time. Its hard as crap to do, but if you can keep the 3x stack up for a minute, thats a hell of a lot more damage than 16k/min. Also internal/elemental is close to pure dmg, as there is very little reduction for the two types of damage.

 

 

 

Also torhead's numbers are wrong.

 

It can be maintained since the DoTs only go off on saber hits, so smash, force scream, saber throw, etc [ other abilities that do not count as saber hits].

However, I think holding off on your saber attacks would result in an overall decrease of DPS.

We REALLY have to see combat logs for that.

Edited December 28, 2011 by DemonSoliloquy

[Zandermill]

A Majority of Torhead has advanced ranks of spells that you can find that have be data mined.

It is not perfect, but it gives us a starting basis to work theory. This is not to say, that everything so far is accurate and correct. We'd need a base by base screen shot of every rank to fifty to be able to associate true costs to damage.

It however provides enough to start with.

 

Also, some bosses do have internal resistance. They also have elemental resistance. My marauder has both as well. I get that everyone wants to argue the point. Its fascinating to do so. It really is. But again. No one has tested the theory laid out themselves. They just rally to the cause to argue.

 

Will one of you test deadly saber. Look for the ticks and see if hemo etc is applying the correct amount of damage increase to bleeds. Because in beta, and somewhat here in live, it hasn't seemed to be.

 

Also we're sort of comparing apples to oranges at this point. I compared one ability to another based upon what was told to me. If you want to argue numbers. Do the math

I know that DS has no cooldown comparable to Smash. I also understand that 50% armor is a static number. However what I finally understand, and this is something not many of you want to acknowledge is.

 

Bosses have elemental as well as internal resistance. I recently did a world boss, and had rupture undervalue for what it should have been ticking. So please do not assume that real raid bosses have no resistances. Because thats just foolish.

My rupture should have been 96.33 damage per second. It was instead around 71. So take from it what you will.

[Lostpenguins]

A Majority of Torhead has advanced ranks of spells that you can find that have be data mined.

It is not perfect, but it gives us a starting basis to work theory. This is not to say, that everything so far is accurate and correct. We'd need a base by base screen shot of every rank to fifty to be able to associate true costs to damage.

It however provides enough to start with.

 

Also, some bosses do have internal resistance. They also have elemental resistance. My marauder has both as well. I get that everyone wants to argue the point. Its fascinating to do so. It really is. But again. No one has tested the theory laid out themselves. They just rally to the cause to argue.

 

Will one of you test deadly saber. Look for the ticks and see if hemo etc is applying the correct amount of damage increase to bleeds. Because in beta, and somewhat here in live, it hasn't seemed to be.

 

Also we're sort of comparing apples to oranges at this point. I compared one ability to another based upon what was told to me. If you want to argue numbers. Do the math

I know that DS has no cooldown comparable to Smash. I also understand that 50% armor is a static number. However what I finally understand, and this is something not many of you want to acknowledge is.

 

Bosses have elemental as well as internal resistance. I recently did a world boss, and had rupture undervalue for what it should have been ticking. So please do not assume that real raid bosses have no resistances. Because thats just foolish.

My rupture should have been 96.33 damage per second. It was instead around 71. So take from it what you will.

 

I'm not saying the Rage tree sucks, but the math you are using to compare isn't right. You can't compare the damage on an OGCD ability to one that is on a GCD, now matter how much time you parse it out. DS is a free damage ability which is what makes it so good. Assuming you don't have rage issues it's always just bonus damage.

[Drathmar]

A Majority of Torhead has advanced ranks of spells that you can find that have be data mined.

It is not perfect, but it gives us a starting basis to work theory. This is not to say, that everything so far is accurate and correct. We'd need a base by base screen shot of every rank to fifty to be able to associate true costs to damage.

It however provides enough to start with.

 

Also, some bosses do have internal resistance. They also have elemental resistance. My marauder has both as well. I get that everyone wants to argue the point. Its fascinating to do so. It really is. But again. No one has tested the theory laid out themselves. They just rally to the cause to argue.

 

Will one of you test deadly saber. Look for the ticks and see if hemo etc is applying the correct amount of damage increase to bleeds. Because in beta, and somewhat here in live, it hasn't seemed to be.

 

Also we're sort of comparing apples to oranges at this point. I compared one ability to another based upon what was told to me. If you want to argue numbers. Do the math

I know that DS has no cooldown comparable to Smash. I also understand that 50% armor is a static number. However what I finally understand, and this is something not many of you want to acknowledge is.

 

Bosses have elemental as well as internal resistance. I recently did a world boss, and had rupture undervalue for what it should have been ticking. So please do not assume that real raid bosses have no resistances. Because thats just foolish.

My rupture should have been 96.33 damage per second. It was instead around 71. So take from it what you will.

 

The problem is if you are using something that is inaccurate, you cannot then use that information to say one thing is better than another. The fact is, you cannot PROPERLY theory craft using torhead until they do have all skills at max rank and with correct numbers, especially when saying 'this spec is better than that spec' because that literally means NOTHING when you are using pure theory craft using incorrect data.

 

Irrespective of whether bosses have internal resist or not, irrespective of OGCD and GCD, irrespetive of anything else, everything you say is meaningless when you are comparing dps specs at this point if you are using torheads completely inaccurate information. Hell, torhead doesn't even have all the abilities in the talent trees.

 

If you are going to theory craft at this point you need to use in game information.

 

Best way at this point would be to completely take off all your equipment and then go from there theory crafting.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Drathmar

[Temeluchus]

The problem is if you are using something that is inaccurate, you cannot then use that information to say one thing is better than another. The fact is, you cannot PROPERLY theory craft using torhead until they do have all skills at max rank and with correct numbers, especially when saying 'this spec is better than that spec' because that literally means NOTHING when you are using pure theory craft using incorrect data.

 

Irregardless of whether bosses have internal resist or not, irregardless of OGCD and GCD, irregardless of anything else, everything you say is meaningless when you are comparing dps specs at this point if you are using torheads completely inaccurate information. Hell, torhead doesn't even have all the abilities in the talent trees.

 

If you are going to theory craft at this point you need to use in game information.

 

Best way at this point would be to completely take off all your equipment and then go from there theory crafting.

 

Irregardless is not a correct word, it's a double negative. Regardless or irrespective would be better. Other than that, you make a logical argument.

 

Yup, grammar police is my contribution to the thread. Sorry, but the usage of "irregardless" is a pet peeve of mine.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Temeluchus

[Drathmar]

Irregardless is not a correct word, it's a double negative. Regardless or irrespective would be better. Other than that, you make a logical argument.

 

Yup, grammar police is my contribution to the thread. Sorry, but the usage of "irregardless" is a pet peeve of mine.

 

There, changed to irrespective, and I actually didn't even know that, I will remember that for the future.

[SWNefai]

There, changed to irrespective, and I actually didn't even know that, I will remember that for the future.

 

You are a grammar policeman's wet dream; not offended and willing to learn

[Meekrob]

Irregardless is not a correct word, it's a double negative. Regardless or irrespective would be better. Other than that, you make a logical argument.

 

Yup, grammar police is my contribution to the thread. Sorry, but the usage of "irregardless" is a pet peeve of mine.

 

This is incorrect. Irregardless is a word that is recognized by a number of lexical sources such as Merriam-Webster, Cambridge, American Heritage, Dictionary.com, Wiktionary.org, and Urban Dictionary.

 

Most of these recognize that the word is non-standard, but is still a word in common use with an accepted definition. While its use is frowned upon in formal writing, I'd hardly consider the forums of a mass market Star Wars themed MMO to be considered formal. I think most people would agree that its usage here is perfectly appropriate, irregardless of your personal feelings.

[DemonSoliloquy]

A Majority of Torhead has advanced ranks of spells that you can find that have be data mined.

It is not perfect, but it gives us a starting basis to work theory. This is not to say, that everything so far is accurate and correct. We'd need a base by base screen shot of every rank to fifty to be able to associate true costs to damage.

It however provides enough to start with.

 

Also, some bosses do have internal resistance. They also have elemental resistance. My marauder has both as well. I get that everyone wants to argue the point. Its fascinating to do so. It really is. But again. No one has tested the theory laid out themselves. They just rally to the cause to argue.

 

Will one of you test deadly saber. Look for the ticks and see if hemo etc is applying the correct amount of damage increase to bleeds. Because in beta, and somewhat here in live, it hasn't seemed to be.

 

Also we're sort of comparing apples to oranges at this point. I compared one ability to another based upon what was told to me. If you want to argue numbers. Do the math

I know that DS has no cooldown comparable to Smash. I also understand that 50% armor is a static number. However what I finally understand, and this is something not many of you want to acknowledge is.

 

Bosses have elemental as well as internal resistance. I recently did a world boss, and had rupture undervalue for what it should have been ticking. So please do not assume that real raid bosses have no resistances. Because thats just foolish.

My rupture should have been 96.33 damage per second. It was instead around 71. So take from it what you will.

 

You are right, Smash hits for more than DC.

However, the damage is not all that DC offers, the OGCD characteristic of it is a huge part of it.

If you wish to truly compare the total damage output from using Smash and from using Deadly Saber, you need to take the FREE GCD that it gives you, into account.

Welcome to theory crafting.

[Zandermill]

Thank you, but I'm going to ask for the hyperbole train to stop. I again keep asking for mathematical input, as well as to ask and see if you're getting correct benefits, and again. instead of looking at that, people ignore it - as if it were to go away.

 

I've put my math out, based it on backup from at the moment, a data mining site that at each rank has proven to be accurate for rage tree at least. You're making an argument on DS and it's benefit. Now. Does it correct benefits from talents, and how well is it scaling. I'm still waiting on that to be answered.

 

If you want to keep attacking without adding anything constructive, I'll be forced to flag. Now please provide your data. From what your tooltip says for Deadly saber, to how it actually works in effect against world boss monsters - as well as how it interacts with its talents to support it.

 

Thanks ^^

[DemonSoliloquy]

Thank you, but I'm going to ask for the hyperbole train to stop. I again keep asking for mathematical input, as well as to ask and see if you're getting correct benefits, and again. instead of looking at that, people ignore it - as if it were to go away.

 

I've put my math out, based it on backup from at the moment, a data mining site that at each rank has proven to be accurate for rage tree at least. You're making an argument on DS and it's benefit. Now. Does it correct benefits from talents, and how well is it scaling. I'm still waiting on that to be answered.

 

If you want to keep attacking without adding anything constructive, I'll be forced to flag. Now please provide your data. From what your tooltip says for Deadly saber, to how it actually works in effect against world boss monsters - as well as how it interacts with its talents to support it.

 

Thanks ^^

 

As was said before, you are doing calculations on incorrect data, therefore it is obsolete.

The calculation that you've done so far is about my Smash hit. And based on that calculation, it is only a 3k DPS margin, but you did not take the OGCD characteristic of Deadly Saber into account.

You keep asking for mathematical input but there is NO data to go on, as most of the damage is based off weapon damage and I don't know of anybody who has BiS gear to TRULY make DPS observations.

And once again, torhead is not accurate.

We are all guessing, including you, so don't ask for any "hard" data.

However, do you truly believe that 5 GCD's is worth a 3k damage increase? [ Based on your data].

 

P.S. You claim we're ignoring you but you're actually ignoring us in failing to add in the extra characteristics of deadly saber in your formula. Do it over.

Edited December 28, 2011 by DemonSoliloquy

[jasonprindle]

Um first I started out playing carnage and I hated it. Going rage now to test it out. and I will go annihilation later to test it all out. I have a few questions about the whole thing um DS has to be cast so does it use a action then when you first put it on? I have never played it so please don't hate. Also I did note if I'm getting this right that you would have to hit with melee to get DS up 3 times first. If that is true then the next few melee swings have to hit. which if the did you have at least 4.5 secs do to the DS ability that you are not dpsing in the being. Just wondering on that one.

 

Second um even if rage is the top DPS I still wonder on if it will be a raid build. My problem with it is that smash is an aoe attack. I know that if you have a good tank he/she can hold the mobs. What I question is if it will be bad do to the fact that the aoe would knock people out of CC. if the raids are anything like WOW then you will need at least some CC during the raid. I know that in late game once everyone had gear in WOW the CC really didn't matter, but it does at first. I just don't want to have to respec everytime that we bring someone new into our raid group. Can anyone who has done the raids speak to this point plz.

 

As for which is better I really don't think any of us will know for sure until we test them and get numbers, (which I will be doing once I get to 50 I'll post my finds here too.) The last thing I wanted to say was it could all depend on the player that you have running the toon. In WOW my friend played a Hunter and he was crap dps in the bes in game spec because he could not focus on so many things like cd's, dots, and rotation. But once we respeced him to survival then he did like 2k more dps because he could do it. Just to let all those out there know I would rather have whichever spec that player is best at then the best in game spec. Though I would try and help them learn how to play it better.

 

P.S. oh I would like to know what a full rotation in rage would look like at 35, say about 2 mins so that I don't just total go and mess this up.

[Straegen]

Thanks for the info! Despite the math critics who don't show any of their own math, informative and useful.

[Zandermill]

As was said before, you are doing calculations on incorrect data, therefore it is obsolete.

The calculation that you've done so far is about my Smash hit. And based on that calculation, it is only a 3k DPS margin, but you did not take the OGCD characteristic of Deadly Saber into account.

You keep asking for mathematical input but there is NO data to go on, as most of the damage is based off weapon damage and I don't know of anybody who has BiS gear to TRULY make DPS observations.

And once again, torhead is not accurate.

We are all guessing, including you, so don't ask for any "hard" data.

However, do you truly believe that 5 GCD's is worth a 3k damage increase? [ Based on your data].

 

P.S. You claim we're ignoring you but you're actually ignoring us in failing to add in the extra characteristics of deadly saber in your formula. Do it over.

 

See. This is what I dont get. You're trying to derail a thread, because I posted an ability versus an ability to talk about the differences of the spec.

Now, to base what your saying. DS is completely GCD effected as well, as your auto swings dont go off unless your actively engaging other abilities.

Furthermore - Someone made the claim of 4k damage per 3 stack duration of DS. I then did math based around deadly saber, and smash, as that was what was being correlated against.

 

One ability versus one ability only. Obviously a rotation has more to it then that, Deadly saber is Annihilation band-aid for damage. The dot that would be similar in Rage would be force crush, which provides a dot like ability close to the effect of DS.

 

The reason you get a free OGCD ability like DS, is because of Annihilate being a 7.5 (After ramp up) second cooldown, along with weaving dots. This brings your rotation in much tighter and allows for very little weaving mistakes.

 

Now. If you want me to go back and redo everything. Do yours first, and post it so everyone can see, versus just arguing with no proof - theory, or actual data implied or not. As for Torhead numbers. They admit themselves, it may not be on the money - but it's a far better cry then anything you have put out.

 

Either show your data to back up your claims, or stop trying to derail my thread thanks much.

[Zandermill]

Um first I started out playing carnage and I hated it. Going rage now to test it out. and I will go annihilation later to test it all out. I have a few questions about the whole thing um DS has to be cast so does it use a action then when you first put it on? I have never played it so please don't hate. Also I did note if I'm getting this right that you would have to hit with melee to get DS up 3 times first. If that is true then the next few melee swings have to hit. which if the did you have at least 4.5 secs do to the DS ability that you are not dpsing in the being. Just wondering on that one.

 

Second um even if rage is the top DPS I still wonder on if it will be a raid build. My problem with it is that smash is an aoe attack. I know that if you have a good tank he/she can hold the mobs. What I question is if it will be bad do to the fact that the aoe would knock people out of CC. if the raids are anything like WOW then you will need at least some CC during the raid. I know that in late game once everyone had gear in WOW the CC really didn't matter, but it does at first. I just don't want to have to respec everytime that we bring someone new into our raid group. Can anyone who has done the raids speak to this point plz.

 

As for which is better I really don't think any of us will know for sure until we test them and get numbers, (which I will be doing once I get to 50 I'll post my finds here too.) The last thing I wanted to say was it could all depend on the player that you have running the toon. In WOW my friend played a Hunter and he was crap dps in the bes in game spec because he could not focus on so many things like cd's, dots, and rotation. But once we respeced him to survival then he did like 2k more dps because he could do it. Just to let all those out there know I would rather have whichever spec that player is best at then the best in game spec. Though I would try and help them learn how to play it better.

 

P.S. oh I would like to know what a full rotation in rage would look like at 35, say about 2 mins so that I don't just total go and mess this up.

 

When you do world bosses or nightmare mode. You can smash things and not break CC. Its an effective cone, and position will play into it.

It is very similar to Warrior's and the Whirlwind they had. It was a DPS increase.

I have a list on the front page of various rotations, but try what you feel comfortable with, to see how it works.

 

I've done world bosses so far, but I haven't been in nightmare raids yet, so I can't speak of the situation there. However, most world bosses have adds you have to burn down. So AOE damage is a good thing. Also remember, that single target a fully stacked smash, if just your raid and a boss, is a dps increase.

[DemonSoliloquy]

See. This is what I dont get. You're trying to derail a thread, because I posted an ability versus an ability to talk about the differences of the spec.

Now, to base what your saying. DS is completely GCD effected as well, as your auto swings dont go off unless your actively engaging other abilities.

Furthermore - Someone made the claim of 4k damage per 3 stack duration of DS. I then did math based around deadly saber, and smash, as that was what was being correlated against.

 

One ability versus one ability only. Obviously a rotation has more to it then that, Deadly saber is Annihilation band-aid for damage. The dot that would be similar in Rage would be force crush, which provides a dot like ability close to the effect of DS.

 

The reason you get a free OGCD ability like DS, is because of Annihilate being a 7.5 (After ramp up) second cooldown, along with weaving dots. This brings your rotation in much tighter and allows for very little weaving mistakes.

 

Now. If you want me to go back and redo everything. Do yours first, and post it so everyone can see, versus just arguing with no proof - theory, or actual data implied or not. As for Torhead numbers. They admit themselves, it may not be on the money - but it's a far better cry then anything you have put out.

 

Either show your data to back up your claims, or stop trying to derail my thread thanks much.

 

Derail a thread?

I'm the one who posted the info about Deadly Saber and I'm the one who said why anni is better than rage.

This raid is about marauder DPS right?

Then I'm not derailing this thread, I'm merely explaining why anni is better than rage in PvE content.

So let me say it again, we are talking about damage differences.

We picked smash vs deadly saber and yes I'VE ALREADY SAID that smash hits for more.

However, smash inflicts damage and triggers a 1.5 sec GCD while deadly saber DOES NOT. So the damage inflicted is greater DURING THAT 1.5 sec GCD.

 

You are also arguing with no proof - all I see is theorycrafting based on false numbers. You've posted no screenshots nor any combat logs. Everything that you [or I] have said is without any backing due to the absence of combat logs, but yet you still try to defend your "concrete data".

While I do not have a screenshot of it[since there is no combat log], my proof is that I take the numbers that I see from my marauder just as you take torhead's numbers.

 

You really have no hard data whatsoever, merely fabrications that were based on misleading data, and I don't know why I just had to repeat myself, hopefully you read it this time.

 

You have also failed to justify why talent points are wasted in blatant PvP talents that have no use in PvE : Strangulate, Unbreakable Rage, Relentless Fury, Interceptor and Undying.

Edited December 29, 2011 by DemonSoliloquy

[Psyro]

Skilled from Carnage to Rage (I´m LvL 50)

and the DPS in PvE and PvP got straight up

Smash crits for ~3600

 

A few questions here:

 

after rupture i can´t use Crush so i must use BA or Assault. Maybe something wrong in the rotation or not all skills like assault are in?^^

 

And after that i have a cd und all Skills in the Rota what do u do there? Force Scream or an other attack?

 

at 30 Fury do u use Berserk and spam Vicious Slash ?

 

sry for englisch i´m german^^

[harrisonxxi]

The rotation is weird but your primarily having to fill in 3 gcd uses with force moves (ie force smash, annhilate, deadly saber (<20%). Keeping you ticks up is worth missing a gcd for as well, or using a subpar move as the ticks are going to do more damage than almost any other move except annhilate.

 

As soon as I hit 50 (which should be in the next 2 days, damn holiday work schedule), im gonna spreadsheet out all of the abilities, get coefficients and start working on a dps spreadsheet. Torheads numbers are off in a lot of ways, and GI=GO. Until we get good data on coefficients and other stuff we cant really do anything but guess on different damage outputs.

 

I strongly suspect from personally playtesting that annhilation vastly outperforms rage, but until I have the actual math to prove it, its just a suspicion.

 

 

Also smash might crit for 3600. But it has a 9 second cd. And you only get 4 of the enhanced crits per minute. Which means 4 of yours are going to 1800 crits. So your net damage is 7x2700 = 19k. DS if kept up for 60 seconds is 20 ticks, of which 18 of them are 3 stacked which normalizes roughly in the 19-20k range.

Edited December 29, 2011 by harrisonxxi

[Psyro]

The rotation is weird but your primarily having to fill in 3 gcd uses with force moves (ie force smash, annhilate, deadly saber (<20%). Keeping you ticks up is worth missing a gcd for as well, or using a subpar move as the ticks are going to do more damage than almost any other move except annhilate.

 

As soon as I hit 50 (which should be in the next 2 days, damn holiday work schedule), im gonna spreadsheet out all of the abilities, get coefficients and start working on a dps spreadsheet. Torheads numbers are off in a lot of ways, and GI=GO. Until we get good data on coefficients and other stuff we cant really do anything but guess on different damage outputs.

 

I strongly suspect from personally playtesting that annhilation vastly outperforms rage, but until I have the actual math to prove it, its just a suspicion.

 

 

Also smash might crit for 3600. But it has a 9 second cd. And you only get 4 of the enhanced crits per minute. Which means 4 of yours are going to 1800 crits. So your net damage is 7x2700 = 19k. DS if kept up for 60 seconds is 20 ticks, of which 18 of them are 3 stacked which normalizes roughly in the 19-20k range.

 

maybe but i did only test carnage and rage > carnage. annhilation i don´t know didn´t tested it. It feels realy stronger at questing and pvp

[EasymodeX]

As soon as I hit 50 (which should be in the next 2 days, damn holiday work schedule), im gonna spreadsheet out all of the abilities, get coefficients and start working on a dps spreadsheet. Torheads numbers are off in a lot of ways, and GI=GO. Until we get good data on coefficients and other stuff we cant really do anything but guess on different damage outputs.

 

It pays to do a little research to avoid reinventing the wheel.

 

Marauder Ability Math.xlsx at

http://sithwarrior.com/forums/Thread-Annihilation-Discipline-abilities-and-rotation-discussion?page=9

 

Note: the final conclusions in the spreadsheet are incorrect since it doesn't model everything, including armor, and there are various things assumed, but it has a lot of good information.

[Zandermill]

One thing of note. I may be looking at adding in force kick to rotation. It seems as if it is working on bosses affected by force crush, even if they are immune to movement impairing effects. Will be testing this in hard content over the new years weekend.

[Ethern]

Skilled from Carnage to Rage (I´m LvL 50)

and the DPS in PvE and PvP got straight up

Smash crits for ~3600

 

A few questions here:

 

after rupture i can´t use Crush so i must use BA or Assault. Maybe something wrong in the rotation or not all skills like assault are in?^^

 

And after that i have a cd und all Skills in the Rota what do u do there? Force Scream or an other attack?

 

at 30 Fury do u use Berserk and spam Vicious Slash ?

 

sry for englisch i´m german^^

Hey Zander, can you give input on that? I'm satisfied with the Rage spec for PvE, but I have issues following the rotations as well. I have no choice but using BA early in it. Otherwise there is not enough rage to sustain it.

I'll proceed to further testing while I'll be in-game.

 

Also, since the Rage enhances Force Scream, where do you place it in the rotation? I prioritize it over Vicious slash, and this one then is totally worthless, despite putting points in Brutality, since more often, the other Rage spenders used early in the rotation have finished their cooldowns.