Astarica Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 If you have a crushing victory you'd get 6 medals from Dauntless 6 which means unless means the only way you can fail to get 8 medals is if you somehow were unable to earn two other medals in a crushing victory. The only case I can think of is that your victory was so thorough that all the enemy immediately jumped off a cliff to deny you the chance of doing anything and in that case you'll just have to settle for 6 medals. Sorry. The only time 'play for medal' trumps 'play to win' is if your side is so bad that 'play to win' is not even an option. I.e. your attack team gets blown up in 5 seconds each time you see the enemy so you've no chance of getting any medal or taking any objectives. In such cases submission is perfectly valid since you cannot win at all. If there's a remote chance to win, you will tend to accumulate medals faster via action compared to huddling around a node for defender medals. In theory, certain medals tend to come very close each other, like 300K damage done and 25 kills, so if you know you're close to them it might make sense to drag out the game further on purpose. In reality, since you can't check WZ ledaerboard numbers in mid game, most of the time you'll just be taking an unnecessary risk by dragging the game out further (if you're winning). If you're losing, being able to drag the game out further usually implies you might even have a chance of winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Wow... I just got flamed on my server for bringing this up essentially... I, as a healer, always try to play to win. Sometimes we get put up against a team that has always out classed us, but you'll never find out how to counter them if you don't try, right? Wrong, apparently. We were dirt stomped by a premade we typically get dirt stomped by and I came out of the match with 2 medals instead of the minimum 3 you need to get your points. Why? I played to win the whole match and kept trying to find that opening in their defenses to take a node with my dps buddy instead of trying to finish out my medals (I don't check my medal progress until the game ends) but I'm a known healer by their group and was insta killed every time I was found. I made the fatal mistake of mentioning how I was not a fan of not getting any WZ pts for having tried my damnest out there and played the map to win, not to farm medals and I was flamed to the ground for being fail. I'm not an end all player, but I hold my own well and am always looking to improve. I learn the strategies and I'm always willing to adapt. Getting no WZ pts because I didn't go seeking out the rest of my medals by sitting at a node the whole match and trying to play the match to the very end hurts. It's bad enough getting face rolled by a better geared pre made against our little undergeared pug group... I think the OP hit the nail on the head... don't show medals, then perhaps more people would be inclined to keep trying to the end despite thinking it could end in defeat... then maybe the opposing team would have more to focus on than just me and one other dps. You only need 1 medal to get credit now. Dying repeatedly is not playing to win. If you're the only guy on your side and there are 4 reds in front of you, and everyone else is huddled by your only node, you're not going to accomplish anything useful before you die. Maybe some people do give up too quickly, but you should not be rewarded for charging into your doom. If everyone else on your team gave up, then you usually have no choice either especially on a map like Alderaan. I assume you're talking about Alderraan because this is the only map where 'give up' is a valid strategy. In Novare Coast, if you give up the enemy will just camp you at your spawn, forcing all your guys to fight back unless they want to just repeatedly die, since camping someone at their spawn ensures no possibilty of losing in NC, whereas if you let those guys get out of spawn you can't rule out the possibility of an impossible comeback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taevannya Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 You only need 1 medal to get credit now. Dying repeatedly is not playing to win. If you're the only guy on your side and there are 4 reds in front of you, and everyone else is huddled by your only node, you're not going to accomplish anything useful before you die. Maybe some people do give up too quickly, but you should not be rewarded for charging into your doom. If everyone else on your team gave up, then you usually have no choice either especially on a map like Alderaan. I assume you're talking about Alderraan because this is the only map where 'give up' is a valid strategy. In Novare Coast, if you give up the enemy will just camp you at your spawn, forcing all your guys to fight back unless they want to just repeatedly die, since camping someone at their spawn ensures no possibilty of losing in NC, whereas if you let those guys get out of spawn you can't rule out the possibility of an impossible comeback. I was referring to Alderaan. And no, I don't try to solo 4 guys, but my dps buddy and I do try to take on even matches (2 guards at a node, worth a shot trying to swipe especially if our team is trying to take another node) but if the rest of our team is just sitting out for the count and they get reinforcements and the 2 become 4 or 6 because the rest of their team has nothing else to focus on... well... dead healer and dead dps coming right up. Good to hear though about the 1 medal thing, I don't hurt so bad now I mean... I don't care if it's like 10 WZ commendations, it can be a pittance, but nothing for trying the whole damn time hurts. And you're right, on any of the other maps, I have no problems getting 3 or more medals no matter how bad the beating since those maps force people to keep going for objectives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I was referring to Alderaan. And no, I don't try to solo 4 guys, but my dps buddy and I do try to take on even matches (2 guards at a node, worth a shot trying to swipe especially if our team is trying to take another node) but if the rest of our team is just sitting out for the count and they get reinforcements and the 2 become 4 or 6 because the rest of their team has nothing else to focus on... well... dead healer and dead dps coming right up. Good to hear though about the 1 medal thing, I don't hurt so bad now I mean... I don't care if it's like 10 WZ commendations, it can be a pittance, but nothing for trying the whole damn time hurts. And you're right, on any of the other maps, I have no problems getting 3 or more medals no matter how bad the beating since those maps force people to keep going for objectives. 2on2 against a side node is pretty much impossible for attacker to win because of the respawn advantage. In Alderran you can have at most 2 people give up before attacking becomes futile against a good team. If you have only 2 people gave up, they can huddle by your turret and provide defense while you go out and try to win. You know those two guys will defend the turret because you don't get defender points if you lose the turret. While you shouldn't have 2 people guarding a turret while behind, it at least ensures you don't have to wory about a possible 3 cap. Attempting to assault a well defended position with at most 5 people (3 gave up) is borderline impossible in Alderaan. You'd be fighting 5on6 (they'd leave 2 to guard the other node), against a superior team (they're wining, after all), and there's just no way you can possibly win that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williambr Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 This is the post of the quintessential epeen player. And what I think is a major problem in the system. They play to see their names high on the score board then epeen to their buddies how leet they are. This is the type of player that knows exactly what recruit armor looks like and follows those players around for easy kills. They get off on pounding pugs into submission then epeen to each other on vent. Like I said, this is the type of player that seems to be the problem player the OP is talking about. And there seems to be more of this type of player than all out bads. And as a caveat, these are the players that necessitate the need for rated wz to keep premades from farming pugs. 1. quintessential epeen player? Cool, lol I'm an arsenal merc without warhero. 2. I play to see my name high on a scoreboard, haha again refer to 1. 3. I do know what recruit armor looks like, I farmed it in outlaws den in my dead server. As far as following them around, well, not really I'm usually trying to kill healers. 4. Don't know about pounding pugs, we only have two groups on the other faction, and if I'm in a pug they litter chat with "L2P, get better, and terribads" things I've never typed. In fact the only thing I've ever /say is gj 5. rated wz's are going to save you? HAHA thats the funniest thing you said in your list of assumptions. Rated wz's are going to be farm fest's still. With this game having what usually takes other mmo's two years of gear progression to achieve, they've forced you to do it in 6 months. Now they are raising the level cap, and I'm sure conqueror gear is on the horizon, and now you will need even more wz comms for adrenals since biochem's outlawed. Rated wz's will be farmed by groups of fully augmented warhero gear with the "perfect group composition", and if you played any game with ratings, you would know the talkers are even worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olvera Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 If you have a crushing victory you'd get 6 medals from Dauntless 6 which means unless means the only way you can fail to get 8 medals is if you somehow were unable to earn two other medals in a crushing victory. The only case I can think of is that your victory was so thorough that all the enemy immediately jumped off a cliff to deny you the chance of doing anything and in that case you'll just have to settle for 6 medals. Sorry. The only time 'play for medal' trumps 'play to win' is if your side is so bad that 'play to win' is not even an option. I.e. your attack team gets blown up in 5 seconds each time you see the enemy so you've no chance of getting any medal or taking any objectives. In such cases submission is perfectly valid since you cannot win at all. If there's a remote chance to win, you will tend to accumulate medals faster via action compared to huddling around a node for defender medals. In theory, certain medals tend to come very close each other, like 300K damage done and 25 kills, so if you know you're close to them it might make sense to drag out the game further on purpose. In reality, since you can't check WZ ledaerboard numbers in mid game, most of the time you'll just be taking an unnecessary risk by dragging the game out further (if you're winning). If you're losing, being able to drag the game out further usually implies you might even have a chance of winning. I actually had that happen to my team before in a Civil War. The other team just zerged mid all the time. I went to grass and someone else went to snow and we ended with a 3 cap. I didn't get any defender medals due to just messing with this one sage who went out of his way to try and find my cloaked sin. I wasnt even near my node and he kept on trying to find me out in the field. So it is possible in a win. Very unlikely in a lopsided win but possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totaltrash Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I'm a pure blood pug, but I always play for the team and I always play to win - medals, damage numbers and mvp votes are too often no indication of skill or teamwork. If I miss out on all the action because I have to guard a node, that's fine with me. If I have to sacrifice myself vs. 4 enemies to buy my team the time to cap/arm/score, so be it. Whatever it takes to get us the win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelbun Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 "2. in Huttball a gunslinger is ontop of the structure overlooking mid, someone passes him the ball, rather than even trying to find someone to pas it to, he throws it to an opposing player instantly ( right after receiving it) and then starts shooting the opposing player. He had people open but did not even try. His goal was to get points." And/or this guy was working for the other side. Its the one problem with allowing players to have toons on both factions on the same server. That player was probably farming medal because he had every intention of losing the match for his buddies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelbun Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I'm a pure blood pug, but I always play for the team and I always play to win - medals, damage numbers and mvp votes are too often no indication of skill or teamwork. If I miss out on all the action because I have to guard a node, that's fine with me. If I have to sacrifice myself vs. 4 enemies to buy my team the time to cap/arm/score, so be it. Whatever it takes to get us the win. Very true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pendrych Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Dying repeatedly is not playing to win. If you're the only guy on your side and there are 4 reds in front of you, and everyone else is huddled by your only node, you're not going to accomplish anything useful before you die. Maybe some people do give up too quickly, but you should not be rewarded for charging into your doom. If everyone else on your team gave up, then you usually have no choice either especially on a map like Alderaan. There's a difference between choosing a losing fight (which can be effective, though not in the situation you're describing) and being on a coordinated team's hit list. Particularly with the small server populations, PvP on my server is usually against the same 1-2 enemy teams for an evening. I and several guildmates have experienced matches where one of us was crushed repeatedly before begin able to get more than 1-2 medals in a match - typically this happens in Novare or Huttball but we've seen it in all four WZs. Essentially, the unlucky target is being punished in one match for being effective in an earlier match. It's a tricky balancing act on BioWare's part since on the one hand, I don't think anyone worth playing with wants to see AFKers rewarded, but on the other, it sucks that a good player can be denied commendations in a subsequent match under certain circumstances. Here is also where the split between continuing to try your best and settling for picking up a few more medals by sitting on defense occurs. I know which decision I respect more, even though I've been guilty of the latter from time to time. 2on2 against a side node is pretty much impossible for attacker to win because of the respawn advantage. This is untrue. I've done it with several different partners in the 2nd slot and against equally (or better) geared opponents. It's tricky to pull off if they know what they're doing but doable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrtwo Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I believe a good solution for this would for BioWare to make the losers recieve half as many rewards as they do right now, which is what it was until recently (due to the same people who play for medals) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therebellion Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Playing as a gunslinger, I would rather get rid of the ball due to the fact that gunslinger only get two defensive cool downs that are usable out of cover....but only one lasts for 4 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humankeg Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I usually top damage, more kills, most killing blows, protection, and manage to usually cap/assist in th most scores in huttball, cap most doors, and take most turrets in CW/NC. I play to win, the other things just come naturally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timidobserver Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 (edited) I've ignored medals since they decided to make them useless anyway. Of course, being a decent pvper nets you a lot of medals anyway, but still I don't pay any direction attention to them. Edited June 13, 2012 by timidobserver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dein_Cathair Posted June 13, 2012 Author Share Posted June 13, 2012 (edited) Playing as a gunslinger, I would rather get rid of the ball due to the fact that gunslinger only get two defensive cool downs that are usable out of cover....but only one lasts for 4 seconds. Just to clarify for you guys (not you specifically), it was the beginning of a huttball match. it was a 0-0 score and someone down below passed it to him ( he was a lvl 49 gunslinger who made 50 after the match finished). There were at least 3 players ( heavy armor) within his range of being able to pass the ball). The guy was farming points for medals from the start. And he had nobody on him and was in "the clear". I went off on him as I thought it was one of the most stupid things I have seen done. Edited June 13, 2012 by Dein_Cathair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dein_Cathair Posted June 13, 2012 Author Share Posted June 13, 2012 Wow... I just got flamed on my server for bringing this up essentially... I, as a healer, always try to play to win. Sometimes we get put up against a team that has always out classed us, but you'll never find out how to counter them if you don't try, right? Wrong, apparently. We were dirt stomped by a premade we typically get dirt stomped by and I came out of the match with 2 medals instead of the minimum 3 you need to get your points. Why? I played to win the whole match and kept trying to find that opening in their defenses to take a node with my dps buddy instead of trying to finish out my medals (I don't check my medal progress until the game ends) but I'm a known healer by their group and was insta killed every time I was found. I made the fatal mistake of mentioning how I was not a fan of not getting any WZ pts for having tried my damnest out there and played the map to win, not to farm medals and I was flamed to the ground for being fail. I'm not an end all player, but I hold my own well and am always looking to improve. I learn the strategies and I'm always willing to adapt. Getting no WZ pts because I didn't go seeking out the rest of my medals by sitting at a node the whole match and trying to play the match to the very end hurts. It's bad enough getting face rolled by a better geared pre made against our little undergeared pug group... I think the OP hit the nail on the head... don't show medals, then perhaps more people would be inclined to keep trying to the end despite thinking it could end in defeat... then maybe the opposing team would have more to focus on than just me and one other dps. Thanks, just trying to help make pvp better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanana Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I believe a good solution for this would for BioWare to make the losers recieve half as many rewards as they do right now, which is what it was until recently (due to the same people who play for medals) No, it just means people quit as soon as they start to lose since it's better to hope for a win in the next match than try to tough one out. Your "Solution" was tried, and failed - hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustypro Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Why are there so many of us play to win, sacrifice for the team kind of players, and yet every time we join a wz their filled with these people of such fail I almost want to stop playing the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteffizleESQ Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Now this type of post annoys me more than any other. There's always "that guy" who posts a generic comment similar to yours always along the lines of, "jeeze guys it's just a game, no need to get mad over it!". The ironic part is your second half of the quoted portion of your comment above is the reason why people have the right to get mad at such a thing, because they are trying to play for fun! If you are losing, your fun is either non-existent or severely diminished, simple as that. If this is because of the other team being flat out better then you whether it be due to skill, better gear, or higher levels, then there's nothing you can do but level more and get better skilled. BUT if it's because of people not playing the game properly due to the game promoting farming medals, then that's something to get annoyed about. If someone was playing sports such as basketball and lost because of the other players goofing off and not playing their positions correctly, they'd get mad. And you wouldn't sit here saying, "God guys it's just a game, get over it. Have fun!" And if you were, you'd deserve to receive the beaten those giants give you. Someone has to lose in every game. If you are losing every game, then I can see why it would be frustrating. If you're on a low-pop server and are getting stoped by the same premades over and over again, then you might want to try playing somewhere else. I honestly think the devs did a good job balancing rewards for winning/losing when they made the last set of changes to the medals system. The problem with people farming medals is not because of game design, its because the people playing with you are stupid. There is no reason to get angry over something you can't control like the other players, and if ranked WZ are delivered as planned you will have a choice not to queue with those idiots if you want to be competitive. The devs shouldn't be wasting time focusing on how to tweak the WZ rewards system again until population and performance issues are fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvaSofie Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Play to win is overall the better option. Winning > Medals However, when I play my healer on Alderan during a PuG, and the opposing team realizes I'm the healer and insta gibbs me EVERY...SINGLE...TIME I leave spawn, I'll sit on left and just farm a few defender medals. Well then you are just as bad as the ones farming medals because even if i die multiple times during a warzone i can output enough healing to make a diffrence in PUG teams. A match is not over untill its over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteffizleESQ Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 (edited) Well then you are just as bad as the ones farming medals because even if i die multiple times during a warzone i can output enough healing to make a diffrence in PUG teams. A match is not over untill its over. ^QFT. If you are a good healer getting insta-gibbed, then that means at least 2 good players or 3 average players are attacking only you right out of the spawn. Next time, try and wait for some teammates before you rush out to your death. edit: i added the words "good healer" before insta-gibbed. If you are a baddie, then you can't even heal through one player's damage. Edited June 13, 2012 by SteffizleESQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammmmmer Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 solution: get better at video games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitsinni Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Don't you only get more comms for up to 8 medals? I can't remember the last time I played to win and got less than 8 medals. I will admit if I accidently get in a match against a guild mate I might ignore the game and kill them over and over ... sorry but at least I'm honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kumakichi Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Don't you only get more comms for up to 8 medals? I can't remember the last time I played to win and got less than 8 medals. I will admit if I accidently get in a match against a guild mate I might ignore the game and kill them over and over ... sorry but at least I'm honest. I've seen as many as 19 medals awarded but I dont know if that was the max. I've gotten 18 on one of my toons in a single WZ too. I think you all still have high expectations. In a perfect world we would all play to win and work together in WZs. But as you play these MMOs you come to realise that you have such a broad mix of players and talents. You have your elitist who believe they are carrying the entire team every time they play and why cant everybody be nearly as good as them. Then you have people fresh to pvp'ing in MMOs and they are rather lost and just dont play well. After seeing this awhile in many different MMOs I've come to not expect anything in pvp but I still do try to win. Forget about the nerfing of the losing teams medals and rewards. All that did was make people quit... sometimes almost immediately when they saw too many lowbies on there side. Then it takes awhile to get new people in and then more people would quit. It was a complete and utter failure. My advice for what its worth is play with your friends, play with guildies and ignore all the silly foulups that happen in pvp. If you get too caught up in mistakes your seeing and how often you see them in WZs it will take all the enjoyment out of pvp and maybe the game for some players. I try to focus on whats happening around me and how I can best play my character. You know your doing it right when you get MVP votes in games that your team lost badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitsinni Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I've seen as many as 19 medals awarded but I dont know if that was the max. I've gotten 18 on one of my toons in a single WZ too. . You can get more than 8 medals in a match, but you will get the same amount of commendations as if you got 8 medals. At least that is what I have been told. If that is the case you should be able to try to win and still get as many medals as you need to get max commendations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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