Vote kicks are going to be the final nail in the coffin.. here's why

[KBSIP]

OP, was the jugg a DPS or a tank? you're unclear, and I don't think you were paying much attention to your group. if he was a tank, holding aggro on the droids and boss, and you're a dps, and he managed to solo burn the droids before you could burn the boss.... you're terrible DPS. no, seriously, you're terrible. that boss has what, 90k health on HM? the adds have 30k ish? you should be doing double-triple your tanks DPS if they're dealing with picking up multitarget aggro, that boss should have been dead before he could get a single add group to spawn.

 

IF he was a dps, your entire second point of him not needing weaponmaster is moot as DPS juggs use weaponmaster.

[KBSIP]

OP, also maybe a liar? Q56 modded items don't drop in flashpoints, only tokens for them from the final boss.

[JayEmmKay]

If i were in that group i would have vote kicked against the retard, and hopefully get him kicked, then add him on ignore. I dont see much of a problem unless you are so unlucky to encounter 3 ******* in 1 group.

[oredith]

Luckily the other two in the group had some sense and decided not to vote kick, but could of been a different story.

your entire post was pretty much invalidated by this.

 

the problem with your scenario of "problem" is that you COULD have been kicked, but the thing is this - one person can not kick on their own, they need to have 2 others agreeing with them, for a 3 to 1 vote.

 

that means both of the other people need to agree with the person's assessment.

 

"but wait" you say, "they could have just not cared and voted to kick me for no better reason, since dps is easy to replace and I was undergeared" (not saying you are, just using that as an example argument).

 

while true, they COULD have, it also sheds light on the mentality of the people you're grouped with.

 

either they are:

1. someone so dumb that they can't see that if the person will kick one person for no good reason, the same person could be kicking YOU (the dumb person) next!.

2. someone who doesn't actually care about the grouping, nor the consequences of their action.

 

in either case, you would actually be better off being kicked at that point, than to proceed with said people.

[Phlem]

Was in a hard mode boarding party earlier on the 1.3 PTS when I ran into a minor issue with the new vote kicking system and the way it works (or doesn't rather) with PvE. Before I go into it I'll explain what happened.

 

The FP started fine as usual, I'd already done HM BP twice today and it's probably one of the flashpoints I'm more familiar with and can go autopilot on, anyway all going fine until we get a little further on. We had a jugg on the team who was quite well geared (I'm still trying to get columi pieces myself for PvE currently in BM due to it being better than tionese) starts rushing into mobs before everyone else had a chance to recover from the last lot. Not a problem until we get up to the elite with two droids by him.

 

The usual tactic by there would be to CC both the droids so you can DPS the elite (as shown by this guy @6:30

) because after you kill the each droid the side doors open and a load of strongs come out, something you don't want when taking down an elite. Anyway this guy decides to attack the droids we just CC'd meaning side doors open and strongs run out while the elite is still running around. I get a message in chat from him saying "why didn't you attack the right one?" when he was the one that was at fault, but even that wasn't the problem.

 

The problem was afterwards when the boss was done and we rolled on some gear drop, I won the drop for some weaponmaster gear with 56 mods in it (it wouldn't of fitted him because he was a jugg) and I get a pop up on the top left side of my screen saying something along the lines of "so & so and decided to cast a vote kick for following reason: Annoying and not attacking right enemies".

 

Now this is the problem, not the fact that guy was an idiot but the fact even an idiot can use and possibly exploit the vote kick system. If the vote kick system stays in 1.3 be prepared to get voted out of flashpoints or even ops because you won a roll on a piece of gear that fits you, all it's going to do is give the criers the upper hand, also very exploitable by greedy people who want to keep whatever drops themselves.

 

Luckily the other two in the group had some sense and decided not to vote kick, but could of been a different story.

 

I got vote kicked from a group once in WoW because the premade's tank couldn't hold aggro from me.

Edited June 13, 2012 by Phlem

[FlyinSpaghetti]

Hey Spaghetti, its Rek. I was the other marauder in that group. I didn't see the vote kick after that kill, so perhaps he was trying to kick me. The tank did have some issues. He ran off with out the healer more times than I could count. Pulled while the healer had no force while I was spamming in chat healer needs force. And he had some unusual methods of going about the bosses, and made no attempt to explain what he was doing. I ran 3 other runs today and they were all great groups. Don't stress too much over one ego heavy tank. The great thing about no cross server, a person who acts like that will be ostracized by the community. They will get vote kicked at the start of a run for acting like that in the past.

 

Yep I remember (think that was the same game I had a few like that since then..) the healer saying they need more force and the jugg just ran into a bunch of mobs Leeroy Jenkins style. He did get a bit mad after I won the role on the loot which is why I keep saying I didn't make this thread because some random was a jerk, jerks will be jerks you can't change that.

 

What I was moaning about in this thread is the fact this vote-kick system doesn't belong in the PvE aspect of this game, if anything bar start of match gear checks vote kicking should stay in PvP where confrontations will lead to exploiting, aggravation and general unfair play.

 

In PvE where the you got to work together as a group rather than confront there's no need for a "I don't like him" button. It will just cause upset especially how tough some of the end game content can be, especially when everyone is trying to grind their gear.

 

IMO there should be a 5 minute vote-kick timer for gear checking (for ones doing tougher flashpoints or ops) and then you can't start a vote for the remainder of the flashpoint. That way people can still make sure everyone's geared enough and ready for the content while at the same time actually taking some responsibility for themselves. For example there was nothing stopping that guy leaving the flashpoint if he didn't want to stick it through. If he had a problem with me he could of took it with him rather than trying to cause a scene with the vote kick button.

 

 

OP, also maybe a liar? Q56 modded items don't drop in flashpoints, only tokens for them from the final boss.

 

Pretty sure this vest dropped in it or one of the other exotech pieces, I ripped the mods and put them in tionese for poor mans columi.

 

http://www.torhead.com/schematic/bSc0POh/exotech-weaponmasters-vest

Edited June 14, 2012 by FlyinSpaghetti

[Elkirin]

I think the OP Scenario has been done to death, so moving along.

 

Interesting concept of a 5 min gear check timer. It may work or it may cause people to be a little harsh in their belief that they only have 5 mins to rid themselves of a burden.

 

I would love to think that zero vote kick systems are needed but I do not play for gear so I am not an authority.

[Chaqen]

The majority of the time when i am playing with guildies we don't CC the droid adds, we aoe everything down (makes the fight far quicker). The 3 normal adds that spawn when the left droid is killed, should die in aoe's... the 2 strongs that come after the right droid is killed, should be burned downed by the dps rather quickly.

 

The tank should've explained the way he was handling that pull, but in the same fashion if you notice you're the only one hitting the boss, you should've of switch targets.

 

Also on a side note, it seems that you may be a bit inexperience when it comes to HMs, and makes me wonder if on the trash pulls if you were burning down normal and strongs before elites as well.

[Ritterific]

Now this is the problem, not the fact that guy was an idiot but the fact even an idiot can use and possibly exploit the vote kick system. If the vote kick system stays in 1.3 be prepared to get voted out of flashpoints or even ops because you won a roll on a piece of gear that fits you, all it's going to do is give the criers the upper hand, also very exploitable by greedy people who want to keep whatever drops themselves.

 

Luckily the other two in the group had some sense and decided not to vote kick, but could of been a different story.

 

I'm so glad that this group finder isn't going to be cross-server so that we can avoid all the bad behavior that comes by tossing 4 random people together.

/sarcasm off

 

Seriously though, the thing that I was most bothered by was the fact that the group finder TOLD the person they were going to be kicked and why. This is a very bad idea. Imagine you've got 2 kids with nothing better to do than grief people through the group finder. The play is that one of them is a total jerk, and the other guy keeps voting down all the attempts to vote kick the jerk. Not only will this basically be rewarding them with recognition for their bad behavior, but it feeds them with more options to be bad.

 

"So you guys wanted to kick me because I pull groups before the tank, huh? Well, I'm still here! So now I'm gonna pull TWO groups at a time before the tank does!"

 

Vote kicks need to be annonymous. If there is a successful vote kick, a message to that player AFTER they have left the group might be appropriate, but even that situation would have to be handled very delicately.

[SuperGrunt]

I'm more concerned how easy it can be used, the fact that this guy could cast a vote off the whim.

 

It also has implications in a PvE environment where gear is concerned.

 

Say for example that guy was actually with two buddies instead of randoms, or say for example you got to the end of an ops only to find you are getting kicked on the boss drop because you happen to be same class as one guy you has got 4 friends in the ops group.

 

This system can be easily abused, and bar for gear level is pointless in a PvE environment.

 

I can honestly say that I will never, and I mean never use a group finder to run an Operation at any point in time.

 

The only reason I would even consider it in WoW is because that is the only way to get some of the gear. Also it will be fine in SWTOR with the Ignore list keeping idiots out of your group.

 

Instead of making a post here claiming that it will be a bad thing, you should have thanked those 2 guys, and iniiated a vote kick on him. He didn't follow the normal procedure for the fight, and then QQed when you won a loot.

 

If you get vote kicked out of something take it as a lesson learned, and /add ignore those that kicked you.

[SuperGrunt]

I'm so glad that this group finder isn't going to be cross-server so that we can avoid all the bad behavior that comes by tossing 4 random people together.

/sarcasm off

 

Seriously though, the thing that I was most bothered by was the fact that the group finder TOLD the person they were going to be kicked and why. This is a very bad idea. Imagine you've got 2 kids with nothing better to do than grief people through the group finder. The play is that one of them is a total jerk, and the other guy keeps voting down all the attempts to vote kick the jerk. Not only will this basically be rewarding them with recognition for their bad behavior, but it feeds them with more options to be bad.

 

"So you guys wanted to kick me because I pull groups before the tank, huh? Well, I'm still here! So now I'm gonna pull TWO groups at a time before the tank does!"

 

Vote kicks need to be annonymous. If there is a successful vote kick, a message to that player AFTER they have left the group might be appropriate, but even that situation would have to be handled very delicately.

 

Well in that situation, A. they would probably both be DPS (Tanks and Healers tend to from my experience care more about their groups) B. /add ignore works wonders C. that sounds like 2 idiots, they would prolly be in the same guild. I would wait for them to pull 2 groups, pull 2 more on top of those two myself, hoping the tank would do the same, and we both drop group and laugh at those 2 idiots for getting a repair bill. Sending people a /whisper or a /tell is in the game for a reason.

[YanksfanJP]

Was in a hard mode boarding party earlier on the 1.3 PTS when I ran into a minor issue with the new vote kicking system and the way it works (or doesn't rather) with PvE. Before I go into it I'll explain what happened.

 

The FP started fine as usual, I'd already done HM BP twice today and it's probably one of the flashpoints I'm more familiar with and can go autopilot on, anyway all going fine until we get a little further on. We had a jugg on the team who was quite well geared (I'm still trying to get columi pieces myself for PvE currently in BM due to it being better than tionese) starts rushing into mobs before everyone else had a chance to recover from the last lot. Not a problem until we get up to the elite with two droids by him.

 

The usual tactic by there would be to CC both the droids so you can DPS the elite (as shown by this guy @6:30

) because after you kill the each droid the side doors open and a load of strongs come out, something you don't want when taking down an elite. Anyway this guy decides to attack the droids we just CC'd meaning side doors open and strongs run out while the elite is still running around. I get a message in chat from him saying "why didn't you attack the right one?" when he was the one that was at fault, but even that wasn't the problem.

 

The problem was afterwards when the boss was done and we rolled on some gear drop, I won the drop for some weaponmaster gear with 56 mods in it (it wouldn't of fitted him because he was a jugg) and I get a pop up on the top left side of my screen saying something along the lines of "so & so and decided to cast a vote kick for following reason: Annoying and not attacking right enemies".

 

Now this is the problem, not the fact that guy was an idiot but the fact even an idiot can use and possibly exploit the vote kick system. If the vote kick system stays in 1.3 be prepared to get voted out of flashpoints or even ops because you won a roll on a piece of gear that fits you, all it's going to do is give the criers the upper hand, also very exploitable by greedy people who want to keep whatever drops themselves.

 

Luckily the other two in the group had some sense and decided not to vote kick, but could of been a different story.

 

 

The solution to your problem is the same as it's always been in other games with a random dungeon finder: If you don't want to be grouped with idiots, especially idiots with power to do stupid things, make your own group or go with guildies.

 

This is one of the reasons why LFG is same-server only - you can put this idiot on your ignore list, or even on a piece of paper, and you'll know in the future that if you get into a group with him later, it might be a problem.

 

On the same lines, does the LFG do what WoW's does and avoid putting you in the same group as someone on your ignore list?

Edited June 14, 2012 by YanksfanJP

[Joe-Skull]

On the same lines, does the LFG do what WoW's does and avoid putting you in the same group as someone on your ignore list?

 

Bioware says that it will when it launches

[Blockk]

You've proven that one idiot can't kick you out. It takes three idiots. If I was grouped with three idiots, I'd be kicking myself out of there.

 

well put .....

[ZudetGambeous]

OP, also maybe a liar? Q56 modded items don't drop in flashpoints, only tokens for them from the final boss.

 

I think 1.3 increased the loot that drops from FP's

 

HM's drop columi now. I'm not on PTS so if someone can confirm this that'd be great

[FlyinSpaghetti]

I think 1.3 increased the loot that drops from FP's

 

HM's drop columi now. I'm not on PTS so if someone can confirm this that'd be great

 

They still drop tokens for columi however exotech pieces which are basically columi without the set bonuses also drop.

[Callaron]

In general you have to be extremely unlucky to get people that actually go along with some idiot's votekick, the only times I can see this being a problem is when you ARE actually unlucky enough to end up with the aforementioned idiot and guildies of him =P

But at least you'll know for next time, and you can just leave the group when you see their guildname.

All in all, not worried about votekicking.

[Genaya]

The only alternative is not having a kick option at all, which can be exploited far more easily for obvious reasons.

 

 

What I DO hope we don't see is "tank brown-nosing" syndrome that we saw in WoW with Dungeon Finder, but it's probably inevitable. I've seen groups in that game where the tank would refuse to continue tanking the instance until the rest of the party agreed to kick the person he wanted kicked (who was not at fault to begin with).

 

Often the remainder of the group will just do whatever the tank says 'cause hey, they've got a 25 minute wait in the queue if the group falls apart, worst case scenario for the tank they kick him and he requeues and is running again before the rest of his previous team gets another tank.

[ArchangelLBC]

So let me get this straight, you roll on an item that HAS ARMORING/MOD/ENHANCEMENTS for his class and would probably be an upgrade for said player, then you come to the forums to complain about it when he tries to vote kick you? It sounds like he was doing the right thing, I would have done the same to someone being as greedy as you. Rolling because it "fits" you....? The jug probably could have used all of those modification, but you stole them from him because you wanted to play dress up.

 

The way I read the OP he lotted on the gear piece because he needed it because he's still trying to get Columni since his gear is mostly BM at this point so your outrage is way misplaced.

 

 

@OP: While in theory your concern might be valid, for example if matched with 3 friends who decide to kick you, in general this won't be the nail in the coffin. As others have stated, what your post shows is that in a pickup group the system works

[Tigzie]

Saw a guy booted from an op today for saying brb bio break basically a group of 4 had qued group and ended up getting him kicked out and replaced quite pathetic if you ask me i voted to save him but didnt happen he was kicked by the morons we then got a weaker dps with us who couldnt keep up was surprised they didnt kick him too

[OnlyNameLeft]

Unfortunately even if he is on yoru ignore list the current iteration of the group finder doesn't check ignore lists, and will potentially match players up with those they've ignored.

 

Nope. Characters on your Ignore list will not be matched up with you when using the Group Finder.

[dinchydoo]

I say it's for level 50 only warzones and 5 times to ask you are limted to kick someone off in a week (stops the power tripper) and only 5 that aperson that has been kicked both warzones + flashpoints 10-49 is all about work with the class the best you've got and how to work of the other classes as best you can and most of the time if you say something that it falls on deff ear.

allso some one tank like mad and gos out of sight so you can't heal them... die than....you get voted off

if you hit your limted 5 a week(to vote) for 8 weeks you vote gose down to 3 for 4 weeks

How do any one get better if you kick any one you over nothing and the same gos for vicser verser.

[Ancaglon]

They still drop tokens for columi however exotech pieces which are basically columi without the set bonuses also drop.

This is correct. On my Trooper I got some Exotech legs, whose mods when transferred into Tionese, is identical in effect with the Columi piece.

 

This works 2 ways, just because the OP, a Marauder, needed on the medium armor exotech piece, there's no reason why the Juggernaut couldn't have got the same benefit by putting those mods into the corresponding Tionese piece -- for a DPS set say -- so his attempt to say the Juggernaut couldn't use it is invalid.

 

Also, your comment about the tank doing the fights in a way you didn't do, is something I've seen after the mergers -- some servers clearly had one way of doing certain flashpoints/operations, and others did it some other way. (In particular, just in the last week I've seen some quite 'dubious' approaches to tackling Ironfist, and the rakghoul swarm event with the cannon in Kaon Under Siege, to name 2).

 

A little more communication in the party might have avoided a lot of aggravation.

 

The whole post strikes me as an attempt at pre-emptively justifying himself in a dispute that is not clear-cut.

[el_Bizzle]

I got kicked from a group on the last boss on Lost Island hard mode. I had spent like 70k credits on repairs to make it that far and just got kicked for some totally bs reason. The other three were all guild members. I was furious.

 

The kick is fine, as I assume it is needed. HOWEVER. I see a solution here.

 

When you vote to kick someone, you have to put in a reason. It should give the person you are trying to kick a chance to rebut that reason and stay in the mission. If the person is reasonable and the group has been reasonable, and the person agrees, then they can agree and leave (be kicked). If they don't, then they get to stay.

 

I'd imagine for most if a group didn't want them in the group, they'd go ahead and leave. In my situation I would have stayed. We were on the last boss on Lost Island and he isn't really that tough.

 

Maybe this wouldn't work, just a thought.