Same gender relationships clarifications?

[natashina]

Real quick, I wanted to share the letter I just sent off to GLAAD:

 

Dear GLAAD,

 

I am a member of the LGBT community on Star Wars: The Old Republic. I helped coordinate and write a FAQ for the thread called, "Same Gender Relationship Clairifactions" , in the Story and Lore section of the ToR forums. I go by the forum handle Natashina.

 

Here's the link to the current incarnation of this thread: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=476215

 

The FAQ the posters and myself created has tons of quotes and links to back up not only BioWare/EA's stance on same gender romance content in this game, but also in general.

 

If you are curious, here is the link. http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=5287894&postcount=2368

 

This thread started on January 17th, looking for more clarity on the content that was promised. This has gone through several incarnations over the year, usually locked at about 100 pages. Currently, the latest incarnation is up to 345 pages.

 

Up until about a month and a half ago, any and all other threads with this topic got closed and redirected to this back part of the forums. There is now one other thread about this topic in the General Forums.

 

As I'm sure you are aware, last September a promise was made by Stephen Reid stating that same gender romances were coming in The Old Republic. This was used by the moderators at the The Old Republic forums until late September of this year.

 

"Due to the design constraints of a fully voiced MMO of this scale and size, many choices had to be made as to the launch and post-launch feature set. Same gender romances with companion characters in Star Wars: The Old Republic will be a post-launch feature. Because The Old Republic is an MMO, the game will live on through content expansions which allow us to include content and features that could not be included at launch, including the addition of more companion characters who will have additional romance options."

 

The next official update was in March at BioWare's ToR Guild Summit on March 6th, made by Daniel Erickson.

 

"This is an interesting one because it sort of lit up, and we didn't honestly -- if we should give an update on it every single time -- We've always said the same thing with it, which is that it's coming, and it's coming with story updates. And we totally understand when people hear "soon", um, maybe I should have put the TM next to it that, "writer Soon"? The writers have a much, much larger lead time than you would expect, and we wanna do any of this stuff right. We heard suggestions, and we do read the stuff, and let's talk a little about the stuff we were not willing to do. We were not willing to go in and just change all the dialogue to work for the other gender. That is not writing. That is not good storytelling."

 

Also from Mr. Erickson at the Guild Summit:

 

"When we do this, we wanna do it right, we wanna do it with the characters that make sense, that we always knew that we wanted to do it for those, so you guys know and we've talked about it before, it ended up being a budget and scheduling issue. There are romance arcs that we wanted to do that didn't make it in the game, we knew which characters (I'm not gonna tell you)... [some audience joking about characters] So the short answer is, it's never changed, it's still coming, it's coming when full story comes, and when is full story coming? This year. So we are still on track."

 

That was over eight months ago. Since then, both of those gentlemen have left the company. BioWare has had no official word since and the silence is rather deafening. They have never come onto the forum boards and said anything directly to the players. Mr. Erickson's quote was never officially transcribed to the ToR forums. I got the transcript from the site Darth Hater instead.

 

Over the months, the LGBT ToR community has tried every polite, respectful and patient way to try to get further information regarding a possible time frame. After the founders of BioWare left as well as Mr. Reid and Mr. Erickson, we've been trying to found out if the content is still coming into the game. We've tried the following:

 

Private Messages to Moderators and Developers on the forum boards.

Twitter and Facebook.

Email and Snail mail.

"Ask the Devs" and other such developer "Q&As"

The Livestream cast, with over 25% of the questions related to same gender romance content.

 

With no results.

 

EA allowed a news article to be released on gameindustrybiz.com that had a caption stating that SGRs were already in the game. The posters in the SGR thread were the ones that had to go and write to the editors to get that fixed. While EA did not say they had that content in game, they did allow the caption to go to print (so to speak.) It has since been edited out of the article.

 

Also, on September 7th, the PvP developer named Gabe Amatangelo made very brief off-hand comment on a video about SGRs:

 

Hall Hood, current lead writer for ToR, made the following Tweet that evening.

"Hall Hood @hallhood (1 of 2) To all the folks who have been expressing interest in SGRs, here is the official word from Gabe Amatangelo..."

 

It was deleted within hours of it being put up. Members of the forums including myself managed to get that copied before it got deleted. I was going to put it into the SGR FAQ for further information regarding the subject.

 

Frankly, many of us are at our wits end. We've seen many articles as of late with EA talking about their pride in including the LGBT gaming community and providing content for them. Yet for The Old Republic, there has been nothing but complete silence.

 

The last time a moderator even came out and spoke to the thread was on September 7th, the same day as Mr. Amatangelo's comment.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=5130639&postcount=1164

 

I know that GLAAD gave this gaming community a huge help last year regarding this. I'm coming to you again, so perhaps you could bring this to light and this community can get some answers.

 

Thank you very much for your time,

 

My Real Name

[Chaac]

Going by the general forum it looks like Uluains patience broke.

[Kioma]

It certainly brought all the vehement self-assured haters out.

[Palar]

It certainly brought all the vehement self-assured haters out.

 

They brought their friends too... they'll probably pop in here next.

[natashina]

Holy. Jumping. Crap. :eek:

 

As I predicted yesterday, Uluain finally lost it. I hate being right in this case. Talk about damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead! However, the next few days are going to be rough.

 

Bare in mind guys, this will bring out silent supporters as well. Some of them could very well likely join our letter writing companion. Just try to remember: Breathe, Report, Ignore. Try to make this your mantra the next few days.

 

And please, for the love of everything peaceful and patient, do not feed the trolls.

 

Funny. This very well could be the final two straws that get BW's attention. Us writing to GLAAD and the haters/supporters coming out of the woodwork.

 

One thing I'm loving/hating about the haters is that they refuse to listen to the fact we just want to know if SGRs are coming or if they've been scrapped. I'm not going to touch that thread with a 10 ft pole, but wow.

 

A few of them apparently read the thread and talked about us going to GLAAD. Apparently they don't know that GLAAD has helped us with BioWare and this game before.

 

I'm tired and a dentist appointment in about 7 hrs. Time to get to bed.

Edited December 1, 2012 by natashina

[Chaac]

Resisting the urge to go in there given how volatile it is. I wonder how long it will remain open with it being the weekend, in the past those threads have stayed open till the Monday.

 

Have a nice sleep! Ugh dentists *shivers*.

[natashina]

In too much pain to sleep. Waiting for meds to kick in now.

 

Forgive me if I sound grumpy.

 

The one thing that I really don't like about that whole thread is that this really does reflect poorly on the rest of us.

 

Not too mention the trolls are in exceptional form tonight. I really hope that JC gets back to us and quickly. I hope it happens before the end of the weekend. All I can wish for is that GLAAD does get involved like they did last September. We're gonna need the help big time.

 

I want to have faith in humanity, but humanity on the internet makes that very damned difficult.

 

Make sure everyone gets their letters to GLAAD out now. It has officially hit the fan.

Edited December 1, 2012 by natashina

[Tatile]

Resisting the urge to go in there given how volatile it is. I wonder how long it will remain open with it being the weekend, in the past those threads have stayed open till the Monday.

 

Have a nice sleep! Ugh dentists *shivers*.

 

Not even going near it. Given what happened to his last thread, I am not going to get involved with any SGRA-related threads in General. I know we shouldn't be hiding ourselves, but it's not worth the hassle for me. I don't want to have to deal with other people's hate speech just to find the extremely few people who will brave that storm. I doubt we'll find any supporters in Uluain's new thread because any body new to the subject will be scared away by the anti-crowd.

[Rayla_Felana]

I won't even bother reading the thread in Gen, as I have too much on my account already to risk making any arguments, I'll leave that to the rest.

[Kioma]

It's a shame. Uluain has single-handedly done more for the pro-SGRA community than most people will ever know and, I would estimate, most of it has been thankless. If he HAS simply quit this matter and gone for good I sincerely hope he won't be remembered solely for one last act of frustration.

 

That being said I'm not touching the Gen-thread. The forums don't get moderated quickly enough any more (presumably due to fewer staff) to make that thread anything but a hate-fest of trolls baiting people into flame-war arguments. I presume it'll get closed soon enough (if it hasn't been already by the time I post this).

[MoogleNut]

I couldn't help myself -had a peek in general.

It's really sad that Uluain has felt the need to vent - all this could've been avoided if they'd just answered with a simple "We're still on track".

 

One of the comments in general was about them not saying anything in the live-stream, therefore it wasn't an issue (I'm paraphrasing here) - completely missing the point that despite a high percentage of people asking pre-stream, the question wasn't even asked- although it did seem to me they skirted around it - many times a question was about to be asked then hurriedly changed at the last moment.

 

It is a pleasant surprise to see some posters in favour of the content - most of whom I've never seen in our little corner of the forum so good on them.

 

And Chaac - major kudos for staying so calm in there, I couldn't do it.

Edited December 1, 2012 by MoogleNut
Spelling

[Kioma]

I couldn't help myself -had a peek in general.

It's really sad that Uluain has felt the need to vent - all this could've been avoided if they'd just answered with a simple "We're still on track".

 

Or, for that matter, a 'No, we're no longer doing it.' Or just about anything in between.

[MoogleNut]

Or, for that matter, a 'No, we're no longer doing it.' Or just about anything in between.

 

True.

 

And as much as I hate to admit it, I really don't know what I'll do if they come out and say it's not happening - I really love this game, but as a gay gamer it's getting harder to justify giving money to a group of people who don't seem to care - especially it being a Bioware game.

 

It's such as shame Bioware Edmonton are not in charge

 

To brighten the mood a bit - and totally related to ToR - Revan has just given Malak a new helmet - serves him right for stabbing her in the back

 

http://twitpic.com/bhsk2u

Edited December 1, 2012 by MoogleNut
inserted link

[Kioma]

True.

 

And as much as I hate to admit it, I really don't know what I'll do if they come out and say it's not happening - I really love this game, but as a gay gamer it's getting harder to justify giving money to a group of people who don't seem to care - especially it being a Bioware game.

 

It's such as shame Bioware Edmonton are not in charge

 

Does there need to be justification, really? In the end of things it's a game; play the game until it's no longer fun, for whatever reason. If that means stopping because you can't respect the company any more, well, that's a perfectly valid reason as long as it's your reason.

 

To brighten the mood a bit - and totally related to ToR - Revan has just given Malak a new helmet - serves him right for stabbing her in the back

 

http://twitpic.com/bhsk2u

 

O.O

[MoogleNut]

Yeah, the fact that this is a Bioware game is what makes it so hard to deal with - if it was by any other developer I think most of us can agree lack of SGRAs wouldn't be an issue - but their inclusion is one of the things that sets Bioware apart from most other game developers out there.

 

It has become increasingly clear though that Bioware Austin may be Bioware in name, but it is certainly NOT Bioware in spirit, which does lessen the disappointment somewhat, but it is still there.

 

As for the picture - I've recently moved home, and my new keys are the wrong shape for my key-cover, figured Malak's head would be the perfect place to keep it safe hehe.

[_biddan_]

oh man how i love this thread,it's so full of hate and passion,a true beacon of the dark side. Edited December 1, 2012 by _biddan_

[Lent_San]

I just found out that I'm not allowed to post in the forums if I don't have an active sub, so I subbed again for two months. I kind of feel a little discriminated now, since the whole reason for cancelling my sub is that SGRs are not in the game.

 

So, it's like being double-screwed. I may not have SGR and I may not even complain about it publically anymore.

[amnie]

I gave in and replied, but only because that one post really really bothered me, and I .do. hope that while I probably won't make the people I directly reply to rethink, there might be someone reading it and understanding why this is really a sad sad affair.

[Kioma]

Yeah, the fact that this is a Bioware game is what makes it so hard to deal with - if it was by any other developer I think most of us can agree lack of SGRAs wouldn't be an issue - but their inclusion is one of the things that sets Bioware apart from most other game developers out there.

 

Well... I think it'd still be an issue but it wouldn't be a disappointment on top of that. I do see what you mean, of course. The lack of inclusion is the wound, the fact that it's Bioware is the salt and the refusal to be straight and open with us is the twist of the knife.

 

It has become increasingly clear though that Bioware Austin may be Bioware in name, but it is certainly NOT Bioware in spirit, which does lessen the disappointment somewhat, but it is still there.

 

That, to me, is the worst part of it. It's that Bioware has made a name for itself by including same sex content and, I might add, treating it really well for the most part. This should have been implemented better. it should have been addressed better. The ongoing matter should have been dealt with better. And it all should have been (and should BE) dealt with better because Bioware knows better than this.

 

As for the picture - I've recently moved home, and my new keys are the wrong shape for my key-cover, figured Malak's head would be the perfect place to keep it safe hehe.

 

Ahh, gotcha. I thought it was some weird genre cross-over for a second there.

[Nozybidaj]

The forums don't get moderated quickly enough any more (presumably due to fewer staff) to make that thread anything but a hate-fest of trolls baiting people into flame-war arguments. I presume it'll get closed soon enough (if it hasn't been already by the time I post this).

 

It is a SGRA thread outside the containment zone. Its already gone actually. And I was just getting ready to make a post there too, darn.

[Nozybidaj]

And as much as I hate to admit it, I really don't know what I'll do if they come out and say it's not happening - I really love this game, but as a gay gamer it's getting harder to justify giving money to a group of people who don't seem to care - especially it being a Bioware game.

 

Honestly I feel bad for all the folks who stuck around and supported BW all these long months. I too really enjoy the game, its why I came back for a quick look, but because of this issue and the way its been handled I certainly won't be staying. And given how long its been already and still no sign of the content I don't particularly see any reason to come back again.

[Lent_San]

Yeah, it's gone now. Making me sick to my stomach with some posters and glad to find approval with others.

[fabiyun]

It is a SGRA thread outside the containment zone. Its already gone actually. And I was just getting ready to make a post there too, darn.

 

Me too, and then I got the "you're not allowed to post here" msg, and for a sec I thought they banned us all. It would really be the next step. Nothing is more effective in silencing a minority than taking their posting rights. BW Austin could have passed a ban on promoting LGBTQ propaganda, they wouldn't be the first. Where is Madonna? Can't she pass pink bands on the fleet?

[Nozybidaj]

Me too, and then I got the "you're not allowed to post here" msg, and for a sec I thought they banned us all. It would really be the next step. Nothing is more effective in silencing a minority than taking their posting rights. BW Austin could have passed a ban on promoting LGBTQ propaganda, they wouldn't be the first. Where is Madonna? Can't she pass pink bands on the fleet?

 

Hehe or pink light sabers. They have done the next best thing though by keeping us all corralled in here, keep us quarantined from the rest of the player base.

[Kioma]

Hehe or pink light sabers. They have done the next best thing though by keeping us all corralled in here, keep us quarantined from the rest of the player base.

 

Not really quarantined, considering they can come in here with impunity and we can't go out there (on this subject, anyway).

 

Not that I particularly want to. I just want a damn answer from Bioware.