Same gender relationships clarifications?

[Uluain]

I think to be cautious, I'd scale it back to the example of Marvel Comics, as that is the least political as well as the most direct parallel in terms of Disney's relationship with a subsidiary company. Also you might mention that while Lucas Arts is a Disney property, that doesn't change BioWare or EA's interest in the game, and both are supportive of such content.

[natashina]

Thanks Uluain for the advice. /hug

 

After thinking about this for a bit, I've decided to continue on this course.

 

I don't want to back down from this. I'm not going to and if I get an infraction, so be it.

 

I did send the full post to Ms. Berryman for review. If she gives thinks it's wrong, I'll let her sort it out.

 

I did tell her that if I got an infraction, I'd take it with grace and accept any tips to avoid another one in the future. We'll see how that goes..

 

This is partially rhetorical, but I don't know how fully clarifying Disney's stance on the LGBT community is in any way political. Except for those that make it as such. Just why? It makes me sad and confused. In my opinion I don't think I should have to edit my post because people are trying to look for a stupid "political agenda." I'm hoping BW agrees with me on this one.

 

I gotta admit, I'm really keyed about right about now and very mad. Those trolls are just taxing on the psyche sometimes. You make an excellent point Uluain, but I think I'm sticking to my guns. No more Ms. Nice Guy.

 

PS: Tatile and Uluain, you guys inspired me to stay the course unless the mods lay the smack down. I mean this sincerely; thank you both for all the PM'ing and Email'ing you do.

Edited November 2, 2012 by natashina

[Captain_Zone]

What is their problem with giving us SOMETHING DEFINITIVE for a timeline or even which companions will be SGR capable?? Hell, I'd be happy with a confirm/deny on Kira, for The Force's sake! Just let me know now so I can either keep my femKnight, or delete her and start a femAgent for the probable Kaliyo SGR....

[Uluain]

Excellent question. I wish I knew, but their reasons are yet another thing they seem not to be discussing.

[rahadnak]

Questions about same gender relationships in Hall Hood's thread are clearly prevailing. I hope they notice this, and realize they can't keep ignoring us, and that erasing coments is not precisely the best way to silence all those who, like us, have been waiting so long for this feature to be added.

[ThatGnome]

What is their problem with giving us SOMETHING DEFINITIVE for a timeline or even which companions will be SGR capable?? Hell, I'd be happy with a confirm/deny on Kira, for The Force's sake! Just let me know now so I can either keep my femKnight, or delete her and start a femAgent for the probable Kaliyo SGR....

 

I don't think they'll say "Who" before the patch comes out. That's Spoiler territory, and while they might say something will be there, they aren't likely to say what or how.

[Uluain]

Questions about same gender relationships in Hall Hood's thread are clearly prevailing. I hope they notice this, and realize they can't keep ignoring us, and that erasing coments is not precisely the best way to silence all those who, like us, have been waiting so long for this feature to be added.

 

I would caution against optimism. Even when we regularly made up roughly 10% of all weekly Q&A questions over a number of weeks successively, our concerns were never acknowleged. That doesn't mean we shouldn't ask. I do plan to go and amend my first post slightly. It is much more aggressive than I feel is helpful.

 

Of course, I would love to be pleasantly surprised by some substantive information. But at this point, I feel it is impossible to overestimate how far BioWare will go in ignoring any requests for clarification on this issue.

[rahadnak]

I would caution against optimism. Even when we regularly made up roughly 10% of all weekly Q&A questions over a number of weeks successively, our concerns were never acknowleged. That doesn't mean we shouldn't ask. I do plan to go and amend my first post slightly. It is much more aggressive than I feel is helpful.

 

Of course, I would love to be pleasantly surprised by some substantive information. But at this point, I feel it is impossible to overestimate how far BioWare will go in ignoring any requests for clarification on this issue.

 

Haha, you're right, of course i'm being too optimistic, i must confess I'm not a very active follower of weekly Q&A threads, so i was very surprised to see so many coments on this topic in that Hall Hood's thread.

[Tatile]

I

Of course, I would love to be pleasantly surprised by some substantive information. But at this point, I feel it is impossible to overestimate how far BioWare will go in ignoring any requests for clarification on this issue.

 

"Mr. Hood did not get many questions this week from his Developer Blog post, so we won't be running a Q&A. Tune in next week when we talk to some bloke about class balancing and metrics!"

[Raynezazki]

Honestly I might unsub soon myself. I'm running out of content to enjoy and both my inquisitor and agent are on hold. I'll probably resub after the s/s romances hit...if they hit. And holding off doing my Jugg (did my Mara already <3 Quinn romance) til same.

 

Since I used a timecard though I have until the 11th of december. If nothing by then I'll just move on. Nothing really keeping me playing except hoping that my characters'll get an LI.

[Captain_Zone]

I would caution against optimism. Even when we regularly made up roughly 10% of all weekly Q&A questions over a number of weeks successively, our concerns were never acknowleged. That doesn't mean we shouldn't ask. I do plan to go and amend my first post slightly. It is much more aggressive than I feel is helpful.

 

Of course, I would love to be pleasantly surprised by some substantive information. But at this point, I feel it is impossible to overestimate how far BioWare will go in ignoring any requests for clarification on this issue.

 

Hope/Expect must be in balance. Hoping for the best while Expecting the worst is the only way to avoid Disappointment.

 

That said, SGRs in ANY BioWare game have become Expected over the years. Ever since Jade Empire, in fact. I can understand them taking a back seat to game-breaking bugs, but this is ridiculous. The game-breakers have been fixed for quite a while now, and the basic framework to make SGRs a reality IS in the game already. It just needs to be fully fleshed out with rewrites to the Companions' dialogue and SGR capability itself.

[Fyuria]

Honestly I might unsub soon myself. I'm running out of content to enjoy and both my inquisitor and agent are on hold. I'll probably resub after the s/s romances hit...if they hit. And holding off doing my Jugg (did my Mara already <3 Quinn romance) til same.

 

Since I used a timecard though I have until the 11th of december. If nothing by then I'll just move on. Nothing really keeping me playing except hoping that my characters'll get an LI.

 

That's close to how I feel, except mine runs until very early January, so they have until the end of December to at least give solid answers beyond it's coming soon.

Edited November 2, 2012 by Fyuria

[Uluain]

My current sub is motivated solely to assure my Cartel Coin award. Whether I choose to renew in December will hinge entirely on the status of this content.

[Palar]

Four hours maintenance on Tuesday... huh. Unless they drop the Makeb patch on Christmas Day (nobody's that insane), there goes any chance of it being this year.

[Tatile]

Four hours maintenance on Tuesday... huh. Unless they drop the Makeb patch on Christmas Day (nobody's that insane), there goes any chance of it being this year.

 

It would have been nice for them to let us know that the "this year" statement was no longer in affect. But that would have meant being actually engaging with the community over this content and we can't have that, now can we?

[Palar]

Or they'll fall back on the semantic of "this year" not being "this calendar year"... it's just pathetic at this point. I think my time runs out in early January, so there's that.

[Tatile]

To whom it may concern,

 

With Bioware's intention of releasing game content every six weeks, we have surmised that from the live drop of 1.5, it will be six weeks until 1.6, which is supposed to be Makeb.

 

As we all know, Mr. Amatengelo stated that same-sex relationship content would be released with Makeb and Mr. Erickson stated that same-sex relationship content would be released this year. These statements were never transcribed to the website, in spite of Mr. Gonzalez said about keeping the community abreast of the situation and up-dated with regards to the condition of the content.

 

With 1.5 still being on the test server and not being in Tuesday's maintenance (it is only four hours), that implies that the live drop will be, at the earliest, the 16th of November. Latest drop to have it still coming out in November would be Tuesday the 27th - assuming that by that time Bioware still patches on Tuesdays.

 

Following from this, if 1.5 drops live on the 16th of November, the next Tuesday six weeks from that is December 25th: Christmas Day. Bioware has no intention of releasing a patch on Christmas Day, however it is the last Tuesday of 2012. From Tuesday the 27th November, six weeks on is the 8th January, 2013.

 

So, I must ask, when was it decided that Mr. Erickson's "this year" statement was no longer valid and why was the community not informed of Bioware's decision to push the content even further back?

 

Was this decision prompted by the homophobic vitriol a vocal minority has displayed on the forums?

Was this decision prompted by the move to Free2Play?

Why was the decision made not to communicate this change of schedule to the community, but instead let us still labour under a false impression?

How long exactly do you expect people to wait for content that should have been released at launch?

 

I realise that you and others at Bioware have been ordered not to talk about this content or engage in the community at all, but that does not mean that I find your silence agreeable.

 

Please, pass my message and feelings of condemnation onto the person who has ordered yourself and others at Bioware not to speak on same-sex content. I want the persons responsible for such a draconian order to know that all they have done is damage Bioware's reputation as an LGBT-positive company and have caused a dangerous rift in the player community, not to mention they have allowed for the continued harassment of LGBT players and their allies on the Bioware forums by not showing that Bioware is a supporter of LGBT issues and players.

 

Or are you not, anymore, and you don't want to have to say it?

 

Either way, your continued silence towards the community is nothing more than contemptuous at this point. I really do wonder why I even try to convey the necessity of action on your part - it falls on deaf ears.

 

Please pass my condolences onto Mr. Hood. Many of us have asked about the state and nature of same-sex romances in his Q&A, ensuring that it will not be given to him to be answered. It is a shame that we cannot even communicate with the lead writer over this matter because of the gag order that has been placed on you.

 

Free2Play may be EA's last ditch attempt to save the game, but Bioware's reputation for being fair and LGBT-positive may well be in tatters over the fiasco that you have managed to conjure out of thin air. Same-sex content has only become an issue because you decided to make it so.

 

Just getting my feelings out there. Really not enjoying being treated in this manner. Will seriously consider my subscription if the content isn't released this year. It's not just over this - in general Bioware treats the player base with contempt and derision.

 

Edit: Eh, that should have been the 13th and not the 16th. Not like anyone at Bioware will notice - reading comprehension isn't their strong suit.

Edited November 2, 2012 by Tatile

[Palar]

No 'clap' emote, unfortunately, but that just said everything far better than I could have.

[Tatile]

No 'clap' emote, unfortunately, but that just said everything far better than I could have.

 

Practice

 

I used to write a lot of essays that got my point across without emotive language (for the most part) and were also fairly concise.

 

Is it bad that I want to go back to education? XD Life was so much simpler back then. And I enjoy learning.

 

/nerd

[Uluain]

Four hours maintenance on Tuesday... huh. Unless they drop the Makeb patch on Christmas Day (nobody's that insane), there goes any chance of it being this year.

 

Not necessarily. The Tuesday maintenance before a major content release is often just groundwork. 1.4 was actually implemented on a Thursday. I think we may well still see this next week.

 

Also, while they have not set a date for the following content patch. they have committed to it including the new warzone, Ancient Hypergates, and have said that it will certainly be in before the end of the year. That may well be the content patch that brings us Makeb and story content as well.

[Joronas]

Just popping my head in to add a bit of support. Because while regardless of how it started, this has just gotten ridiculous.. and Bioware has actually made it into an issue, when it really should not have been. So, I thought the people who have been keeping an eye on this deserved a bit kind word/thought/post. Many thanks for keeping such good records of the community, and for staying cool-headed!

[LordShanon]

Practice

 

I used to write a lot of essays that got my point across without emotive language (for the most part) and were also fairly concise.

 

Is it bad that I want to go back to education? XD Life was so much simpler back then. And I enjoy learning.

 

/nerd

 

I applaud you for that magnificent post and as Palar said "I could not have said it better myself" Great job calling them out on their quotes. Overall I'm surprised that after 290 pages of players urging BioWare and those responsible for making this "same gender relationships" thing happen, nothing has happened. Not even a peep out of these guys. I'm with you on reconsidering my future subscription to this game and any future game purchases from BioWare or EA.

 

Thank you once again for your words

[Tatile]

Just popping my head in to add a bit of support. Because while regardless of how it started, this has just gotten ridiculous.. and Bioware has actually made it into an issue, when it really should not have been. So, I thought the people who have been keeping an eye on this deserved a bit kind word/thought/post. Many thanks for keeping such good records of the community, and for staying cool-headed!

 

I assure you, staying cool-headed is not an easy thing!

 

I have the greatest respect for Uluain and Natashina I just make a lot of noise.

[Uluain]

Since we are sharing, and since I have mentioned a PM to which I still hope for a reply (though at this point, it won't come sooner than Monday):

 

Hi Again Uluain!

 

Sorry I didn't respond to your earlier pm more quickly!

 

If you see anyone violating the forum rules, please make sure to report them so that moderation can take care of any inappropriate posts. Regarding moderation policies, I feel like my earlier PM explains the redirection and closing of threads (you'll see most recently that we've needed to merge and remove many duplicate threads on the Disney topic).

 

We know you are frustrated that there is no new information to share, but I can assure you again that the Community Team is well-aware of your concerns and is working to bring more information as soon as possible. Thank you for your patience in the meantime!

 

Yeah - I think it's plain to all of us that I have gone right off the deep end on this now. Sorry. I've been trying to take a big step back and get back on a more reasonable keel before replying. That said, I do perceive some things about how this topic is handled which do genuinely cause some concern.

 

None of them are helped by me throwing the rules out the window and going axe-crazy on the forums. I am sorry. But behaving ourselves wasn't accomplishing anything either.

 

Perhaps the foremost frustration for me is that if this is in fact coming with Makeb, it must be pretty nearly in the can and offering any feedback at this stage is pointless. Other than gnawing the gristle and bones of what we have been told, and continuing to ask questions in hopes of adjusting expectations, we have nothing to accomplish.

 

Second is the awareness that we have never been told anything about this on the Community Forums, the forums we have now. I wasn't here for beta. I joined right after launch. In the Weekly Q&A, I think we demonstrated considerable interest. That question was consistently passed over. We see developers talking about this, that and the other content, addressing a variety of player questions.

 

When I am not spitting bile, I do my darnedest to be there whenever a thread goes up saying "Where's the Communication" to point at how much we see on the Dev Tracker every week, and to point out all the other outlets the Community Team employs to speak to players and to listen. I have stood up for Joveth and I have done all I can to give you the recognition you deserve. I see what you post. I am paying attention. A lot gets said. But never to us.

 

While players from beta days have preserved Stephen Reid's announcement and the commentary he gave to put it in context, that wasn't said to us. It remains the cookie cutter answer long after launch, long after the man who issued it has left the studio.

 

It was also to a pre-launch audience, that the question of what companions might be involved was dismissed as unanswerable at that time. And that has never been addressed. No, Daniel Erickson saying "we aren't going to tell you" doesn't count – particularly after he was explicit that he did know.

 

Later, with much in doubt after both Reid and Erickson's departure, an announced shift toward emphasis on group content and then a move toward Free to Play, we just wanted to know if those statements remained current, and couldn't even be told that.

 

I have asked in various ways for some kind of explanation of why this is so, what is reasonable to ask about, how to help by aiming questions toward what might be discussed. I never heard anything back.

 

With all that in mind, being encouraged to continue to discuss in the Story and Lore thread isn't discouraging. It's cruel.

 

How, from what I have seen to date, am I supposed to credit your assurances that the Community Team "is working to bring more information as soon as possible"? It is possible now. You are a well-spoken, articulate woman. You post on the forums every day.

 

So please don't say it is not possible. It is obviously possible to release information on other subjects. I have yet to hear why this content is different. And yet it is unmistakably being treated differently. Disadvantageously to players trying to know how to best approach the game while we wait.

 

Yes, it will be controversial but that is a call that was already made a year ago last September. EA has already stared down the beady-eyed gaze of the Family Research Council, as I understand, twice now without a flinch. That controversy will have to be faced again, head on, at some point if this makes it into the game. Why not now?

 

Please help me understand, because your asking for my understanding and I don't have any. I guess. I infer. I surmise. And as for my patience, I am sorry but I have none left. It's gone. I used it up. Best I can offer is to shut up, or give you due cause to cut off my posting privileges. That's not how I want my participation in this community to be. I really don't.

 

But without something to go on, it's all I am left with. Please think about what I have said. Put it aside, let it sink in, come back, and read it again. I mean it in the best possible way. But I need something in return.

 

-- [signed with my actual name]

aka Uluain

[LordShanon]

I assure you, staying cool-headed is not an easy thing!

 

I have the greatest respect for Uluain and Natashina I just make a lot of noise.

 

Make more noise! lol.