1.3: Mercenary DPS still the weakest PvP class

[Serpieri]

Soo... Are you gonna post logs or link the ones you have? Edited June 14, 2012 by Serpieri

[RoJackal]

Those numbers seem very low, how were you equiped/buffed when you did these?

 

Just BH buff and Rakata Reflex Stim (http://db.darthhater.com/items/26575/rakata_reflex_stim/)

 

You can see the stats in the pictures :

 

PTS :

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/109/screenshot2012060623444.jpg/

Live :

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/585/screenshot2012060700115.jpg/

Edited June 14, 2012 by RoJackal

[Omegaman]

 

@ you.

 

i've posted EVERYTHING supporting my numbers, performance, and playstyle...

 

the only thing i haven't brought in the forums is video evidence...

 

for anyone that thinks i am trolling, i have one HONEST thing to say to you.

 

have you ever considered it is you?

 

i come in here attempting to help the Merc community...i explain my playstyle, rotations, how to 1v1 opponents, etc. and you call me a troll...

 

maybe i'll just stop posting here...

 

p.s. and, i can see you lack reading comprehension. i wasn't speaking on PTS performance...i'm talking live...i didn't come right out and say that, but i did say "well, i was pretty anxious to see how i would do post server merges, with 300+ people on the fleet and a large batch of new opponents." which should have been easy to understand and comprehend.

 

Its not that people think your trolling, everyone kinda thinks your full of it in a way. kinda like one of those i am perfect in what ever i do kinda guys. Just cause you feel one thing does not mean its true and the same goes to everyone else. Everyone basicaly feels the Class is BROKEN and you dont. Let me ask you this, You pay to play the game and you enjoy playing PYRO and not Arsenal. Just cause you can put your unholy ungodly supernatural no one else can do numbers up does that mean those that enjoys playing Arsenal and not pyro be forced to play PYRO because arsenal is so BROKEN ? Hell no... We pay to play the spec we enjoy to play just like you do, So stop going around acting like the class is not Broken because it is and you know it. So get over your holyer then tho attitude and actually help the comunity and stop hindering it. the proposed fix to the class for 1.3 is an offical Bioware/EA splap i nthe face and they think the high number of unsubs was bad for 1.2 just wait till they fire yet another high ranking member of there staff due to unsubs and the mistaken direction they are taken the game into. This game has truned into yet anotehr Conan game with a bit of a delay in the mass ejection of subs and you play a huge part in it. , Nuff said..Good Day.. ( BTW Devs this is as constructive and nice as i get due to your staffs inability to do there job correctly so remove the post if you wish)

[randprin]

 

i love the "there's a free kill merc" dudes...i really wish you coulda seen the SW/JK RUNNING from me!! yes, running...i had a couple guys in vent w/ me...we were loving it..

 

and i'll tell ya this...i had a sniper follow me around, we killed EVERYONE and EVERYTHING <5 seconds. or just CC'd on def CD's.

 

also, grouped w/ a DPS jugg tore schizer up!!

 

again, i'm not sayin merc is "fine", but way too many people underestimate it's ACTUAL effectiveness...

 

here's an example...me vs. that pesky WH VG/AS.

 

he IR, HiB, AP, IP as he charged in. i IM, RS, TD, RaS(kiting)...

 

i JB'd him away before he could SS me...followed by TSO, Rapid Scan, rakata stim/KO, WHILE i was kiting, jumped over a sandbag wall thingy. (by the tents in NC)

 

so, we were even in HP thru our initial burst. then, i'm at full HP in <3sec, and he is ~70% (TD is about to go off)...

 

he yanks me back, i insta-stun him...i was expecting that...

 

RP, RaS(kiting), PS, RS(kiting), FM, RaS(kiting). when he died i was 98% HP and about 20m away. while kiting, i was using terrain, jumping over and around...

 

i really like the challenge of 1v1, and love a good fight...

 

so, you fought another clueless guy who picked up his gear by farming WZ 24/7.

 

you'll forgive me for using the BH terms (i have both PT and merc) but, no carbonize? interrupts, 0 using terrain on his part. etc

 

in short, you're fighting clueless people, and coming around to boast about it on the forums. we'll have this chat again when the ranked WZ hit live...

[T-Assassin]

Let me ask you this, You pay to play the game and you enjoy playing PYRO and not Arsenal. Just cause you can put your unholy ungodly supernatural no one else can do numbers up does that mean those that enjoys playing Arsenal and not pyro be forced to play PYRO because arsenal is so BROKEN ? Hell no... We pay to play the spec we enjoy to play just like you do, So stop going around acting like the class is not Broken because it is and you know it

 

you lost me there.

 

i've posted, several times in fact, AGREEING how borked Arsenal is in PvP. i even spec'd for a day of PvP and some dailies just so i caould gain some insight and perhaps assist those in constructive complaints...

 

you must have missed all those posts.

 

you must have also missed the posts stating and equally skilled/geared PT/VG SW/JK JS/SI SHOULD beat a merc. i have a VG/AS...i know how bursty and unstoppable they are...

 

reading comprehension is far from abundant around here.

 

i wonder if the 18 people that have PM'd me, thanking me for assisting them on IMPROVING as a Merc/PT think i'm in here just to boast about beating on "bads"...

 

no, i post these to encourage people to continue to play the class, make constructive criticism, and actually have fun in pvp...i do!!!

 

haters gonna hate...

Edited June 15, 2012 by T-Assassin

[T-Assassin]

so, you fought another clueless guy who picked up his gear by farming WZ 24/7.

 

you'll forgive me for using the BH terms (i have both PT and merc) but, no carbonize? interrupts, 0 using terrain on his part. etc

 

in short, you're fighting clueless people, and coming around to boast about it on the forums. we'll have this chat again when the ranked WZ hit live...

 

i'm looking forward to it...

 

after all, i was called a MZL PvP Legend last night in Vent (bring on the PvE, bluebie, carebear server hate...)

Edited June 15, 2012 by T-Assassin

[Archaar]

So I was under the general impression that Merc's were very poor when it comes to DPS, I came across a Merc last night in huttball, this merc was hitting me harder than ANY other class I've come across before in PvP, I mean his damage output was insane. He was definitely Arsenal Spec as he was using tracers / Heat Seeker, how was he hitting people so hard? He was killing my scoundrel in under 10 seconds.

[Hartburn]

So I was under the general impression that Merc's were very poor when it comes to DPS, I came across a Merc last night in huttball, this merc was hitting me harder than ANY other class I've come across before in PvP, I mean his damage output was insane. He was definitely Arsenal Spec as he was using tracers / Heat Seeker, how was he hitting people so hard? He was killing my scoundrel in under 10 seconds.

 

If you stand there and take it, any class will probably die in that amount of time. Tracer hits for ~2k, and Heatseeker for ~5k on a good crit. A full Unload channel will tear into your health. In other words, if you don't los or interupt, and just take the damage, you'll die. Arsenal Merc's weakness isn't necessarily the damage they deal, but how gimped they are in dealing it.

[fujeo-finel]

So I was under the general impression that Merc's were very poor when it comes to DPS, I came across a Merc last night in huttball, this merc was hitting me harder than ANY other class I've come across before in PvP, I mean his damage output was insane. He was definitely Arsenal Spec as he was using tracers / Heat Seeker, how was he hitting people so hard? He was killing my scoundrel in under 10 seconds.

 

Yea, sorry about that.

[T-Assassin]

So I was under the general impression that Merc's were very poor when it comes to DPS, I came across a Merc last night in huttball, this merc was hitting me harder than ANY other class I've come across before in PvP, I mean his damage output was insane. He was definitely Arsenal Spec as he was using tracers / Heat Seeker, how was he hitting people so hard? He was killing my scoundrel in under 10 seconds.

 

like the others have said, it not damage that is the issue...

 

my Merc/PT rips through people. i've just recently been grouping w/ and Jugg. all he does is chocke and stun opponents while i kill them in <5 seconds.

 

and when i was spec'd arsenal (for the one whole day ) i did >100 DPS on average...

 

the damage is there (if you don't get interrupted, LoS, stunned, KB'd, etc.) thing is, that if usually depends on underskilled players.

 

or, very skilled BH's.

[N_inja]

So I was under the general impression that Merc's were very poor when it comes to DPS, I came across a Merc last night in huttball, this merc was hitting me harder than ANY other class I've come across before in PvP, I mean his damage output was insane. He was definitely Arsenal Spec as he was using tracers / Heat Seeker, how was he hitting people so hard? He was killing my scoundrel in under 10 seconds.

 

No one is complaining about Mercs DPS, they are complaining about the Mercs lack of CC tools to use when they get attacked. I'll agree with you that Merc is probably the best class to have if no one is attacking them. If I knew going into a WZ that no one would attack me, I'd want to bring a merc.

[T-Assassin]

No one is complaining about Mercs DPS, they are complaining about the Mercs lack of CC tools to use when they get attacked. I'll agree with you that Merc is probably the best class to have if no one is attacking them. If I knew going into a WZ that no one would attack me, I'd want to bring a merc.

 

which is why befriending a sniper or jugg is invaluable...

 

jugg chokes em i waste em. or sniper and i can stand side by side and cc, kb, root, and annihilate anything.

 

i wouldn't count out a good merc kickin tail in ranked WZ's...

[MisterWiseGuy]

They really should come up with some fixes for Arsenal merc's too. In today's wz's the damage that i take from melee classes seems to be WAY more than our tracer missile damage was in 1.1.

 

Face it bioware, if you don't fix the mercenary arsenal class, you'll be facing alot more unsubs in the future.

[Swaggz]

like the others have said, it not damage that is the issue...

 

my Merc/PT rips through people. i've just recently been grouping w/ and Jugg. all he does is chocke and stun opponents while i kill them in <5 seconds.

 

and when i was spec'd arsenal (for the one whole day ) i did >100 DPS on average...

 

the damage is there (if you don't get interrupted, LoS, stunned, KB'd, etc.) thing is, that if usually depends on underskilled players.

 

or, very skilled BH's.

 

I'll agree with Assassin that damage is not the issue at all. Lack of CC, slows, an interupt, etc is the problem. It would be nice if our cleanse would actually cleanse every debuff we get, but we all know that's not the case. Back to the damage part. Yes, us mercs can pretty much out damage most people in any WZ, but what Assassin fails to show in his screen shots (and this is by no way calling him out..since I agree with quite a bit he posts) is the actual medals earned or even the types of kills we get. Example...today I played about 15 WZ's. Yes, I came out on top or at least top 2 in just about each and every one in total damage done, but what's not being shown is the amount of kills. There have been plenty of matches where I would get credit for 45-60+ kills, yet would be lucky to get 15 KB's. All this shows, as PT Mercs, is that we can put out damage. It doesn't really relate to if we can actually burst folks down (which we can). It just show's that we did a lot of damage, which we all know is some what overrated when it comes to WZ's. Screen shots are nice when they show damage, but if you don't show anything else (KB's, Solo kills, what medals earned, etc) it doesn't really mean much. Now as a PT Merc, yes, I've solo'd people in CW to get a turret, yes I've killed healers, but what it comes down to is the basic fact that us as Merc's, barring any survival changes, will always be out classed by most all classes.

[NoTomorrow]

My Opinion On What Mercs Need To Be Viable For PvP:

Merc CC/Utility.

-Rocket punch should come with a root after-effect

-10M range interupt at least (Interrupt meaning lockout, not rocket-punch "interrupt")

-Jetboost roots you in place for 2 seconds

-Concussion missile is instant cast with talents for dps specs, every other class has this instant cast on 1-3 targets

-Unload needs to be non-interruptable just like marauders ravege and or root the target in place for its duration

-Tracer Missile Needs to Apply a burning dot (optional)

-Pyro Mercs are to easily cleansable by healers. Cleanse the fire dot and laugh at them. Sniper dot isn't cleansable, why is BHs cleansable? We need fire dot to do railshot...it's retarded.

-We are interrupted just to easily and can fall behind in damage 1v1 very quickly, even with attempts to fake cast, we don't have much hope unless we use a knockback to run behind an obsticle and heal, then do 1-2 casts, knockback, run, heal. We are 2 much of a liability against players who use interrupts frequently.

 

Why does a light armor class --- sorcs dps -- have higher survivability than a heavy armor class mercs?

They pre-bubble + re-bubble when their 1st bubble breaks + interrupt slow, instant cast cc and sprint heal.

Mercs cannot do anything like this, or snipers who can root and run.

 

Substitute the ability to off-heal a little bit for doing alot less utility/damage? ***? We only heal to get our 2.5 medal or maybe like 2 heals after we kill someone till we get out of combat to recharge energy. If you even count swapping cylinders to auto attack heal a ball carrier for barely anything as a use of competitive utility, thats messed up, it takes like 3 seconds to cast swapping cylinders and then 3 seconds to swap back. Essentially, this class was just a knockback support, and they nerfed that in 1.2

 

Serious Question: Did BW fire the BH class designers or lock them in a dungeon or something? How is this class falling behind by so much?

The sniper dots are uncleansable because Cull is their main damaging ability. Without poisons, cull is useless. Cull is channeled, railshot is instant. Incendiary missle costs less to reapply than the 2 sniper poisons.

[Sookster]

No one is complaining about Mercs DPS, they are complaining about the Mercs lack of CC tools to use when they get attacked. I'll agree with you that Merc is probably the best class to have if no one is attacking them. If I knew going into a WZ that no one would attack me, I'd want to bring a merc.

 

The lack of interrupt is the biggest issue, the amount of CC is about the same as most other classes- knockback (optinally 2), stun, sleep, snare (although very minor) and jet boost. At least merc gets a stun while marauder doesn't.

Edited June 16, 2012 by Sookster

[Jayshames]

I do enjoy watching people post a thread in every section claiming their class is the weakest.

[T-Assassin]

I'll agree with Assassin that damage is not the issue at all. Lack of CC, slows, an interupt, etc is the problem. It would be nice if our cleanse would actually cleanse every debuff we get, but we all know that's not the case. Back to the damage part. Yes, us mercs can pretty much out damage most people in any WZ, but what Assassin fails to show in his screen shots (and this is by no way calling him out..since I agree with quite a bit he posts) is the actual medals earned or even the types of kills we get. Example...today I played about 15 WZ's. Yes, I came out on top or at least top 2 in just about each and every one in total damage done, but what's not being shown is the amount of kills. There have been plenty of matches where I would get credit for 45-60+ kills, yet would be lucky to get 15 KB's. All this shows, as PT Mercs, is that we can put out damage. It doesn't really relate to if we can actually burst folks down (which we can). It just show's that we did a lot of damage, which we all know is some what overrated when it comes to WZ's. Screen shots are nice when they show damage, but if you don't show anything else (KB's, Solo kills, what medals earned, etc) it doesn't really mean much. Now as a PT Merc, yes, I've solo'd people in CW to get a turret, yes I've killed healers, but what it comes down to is the basic fact that us as Merc's, barring any survival changes, will always be out classed by most all classes.

 

i usually do not find it hard gettin 10-12 medals on average...killing blows are not an issue, especially in HB. (in a 74 kill match yesterday, i killed about 10 people in hazards!!! i was on fire...wait..well, they were on fire (and slimy)...i just got them there)

 

on killing blows, FM, TD, RS, even IM <30%...i seriously have have no issues closing the deal...

 

but, another form of "CC" (i would like a root...an interrupr would be sexy, but i kinda like surprising healers when they get to 40...back up to 90-100%, then i put it on em...they have to interrupt me (which isn't too hard) or run, if they want to survive.

 

it's the DoT'n SI/JS and the well played JK/SW that really prove difficult..

 

right now, stick by a sniper or get a CC friendly class to hang with.

 

their time will come.

 

and PT/VG...unless i am OUT of CD's, they are easy to kill...kite >10m...they are pretty useless. (gotta save your CC's for escape/kiting, cleanse the DoT's)

[Quantemoq]

alright i have my arsenal merc on the pts and compared it to the one on normal game server.

 

both dpsing on the pvp dummy (medium armor) over a perion of 4 min, using all cd and no adrenals.

 

also i uncrafted all my augmentations of my merc on the game server, since i do not have them either on my pts merc.

 

the results were 1387 on pts

vs1443 dps

so overall a decrease in dps ~4% (i reapeated it a couple of times and the decrease in was betwen 3.7% to 4.1% )

Edited June 16, 2012 by Quantemoq

[Azrienov]

What do you expect when Gabe from Mythic is in charge?

 

LOLOLOL ah Mythic... the only company that could take Warhammer and @#^! it up.

[Azrienov]

At least merc gets a stun while marauder doesn't.

 

Erm, well... not entirely true, but not entirely false. See, a good Mara that applies his DoTs can use force choke to lock you out of cleansing the damage those things can do. If he uses it on you while DoT ticks and locks you down for the kill, I'd call that a stun. Thankfully, few people have this presence of mind, but the ones that do are the ones that you don't win against.

[Artichokey]

Everyone just save yourself the heartache of waiting for buffs that are not coming and re roll to power tech. Do not play as Mercenary unless you intend to heal. The other two trees might as well be blank for all the good they are.

 

Stick to the classes that are powerful and ditch Merc. I play a merc and still mean every letter of every word in this rant. The class is all but dead PVP wise and only shines in PVE where you are not as bad off being the turret that we all are.

 

We got what we paid for when Mythic was included in class balance. It shows without a doubt. Stupidity in its highest form.

 

If anything all our abilities need a 30%-40% damage increase. If we cant have survivability, utility and mobility then i will take glass cannon instead.

Edited June 17, 2012 by Artichokey

[T-Assassin]

If anything all our abilities need a 30%-40% damage increase. If we cant have survivability, utility and mobility then i will take glass cannon instead.

 

i FULLY support this damage increase proposal!!

 

[Swaggz]

i usually do not find it hard gettin 10-12 medals on average...killing blows are not an issue, especially in HB. (in a 74 kill match yesterday, i killed about 10 people in hazards!!! i was on fire...wait..well, they were on fire (and slimy)...i just got them there)

 

on killing blows, FM, TD, RS, even IM <30%...i seriously have have no issues closing the deal...

 

Medals are easy to get. Been finding myself getting 12+ quite a bit as of late. The more I was playing the other night, the more I have begun to think that while I'd like to a little more ooomph to my attacks, I think the lack of utility in locking someone down is what bothered me more. Sure, it's easy to get a JC/SI healer right to around 30-35%, stun them, then finish them off, but not not having a slow or interupt is getting a bit old.

 

but, another form of "CC" (i would like a root...an interrupr would be sexy, but i kinda like surprising healers when they get to 40...back up to 90-100%, then i put it on em...they have to interrupt me (which isn't too hard) or run, if they want to survive.

 

it's the DoT'n SI/JS and the well played JK/SW that really prove difficult..

 

Root or interupt would be sexy, but if it's too difficult for them to give us a new ability, then I would be cool with our Cleanse being able to remove EVERY slow and root at the very least. At least this would make it easier to kite (esp those Shadow's/SIn's)

 

I would like to see something that has a 100% chance to apply our CGC DoT. Maybe dropping the heat on Missile Blast to 16 and letting it apply the DoT 100% of the time would be nice and would actually make that ability useful.

[Gyronamics]

So I was under the general impression that Merc's were very poor when it comes to DPS, I came across a Merc last night in huttball, this merc was hitting me harder than ANY other class I've come across before in PvP, I mean his damage output was insane. He was definitely Arsenal Spec as he was using tracers / Heat Seeker, how was he hitting people so hard? He was killing my scoundrel in under 10 seconds.

 

10 seconds is a hell of a long time.

 

When you look at high geared merc dps figures that's only sustained damage.

 

Burst damage is massively more because you're not in a long fight, you don't want to be in a long fight. If the fight goes on too long the target will run off, find cover, friends, heal...

 

Mercs can have "lower dps" in fights where you literally pull up next to the raid boss, park your *** and dps for 5 mins.

 

That kind of fight doesn't show up melee for their weaknesses.

 

In a WZ where the best target to attack might swap rapidly (because the one you were on threw up a billion shields and is being healed by god) being a melee sucks. You have to get your *** over to that new target before you can do anything.

 

Any map with obstacles that mess with melee is great for casters.

Edited June 17, 2012 by Gyronamics