Kryogenique Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 So my alt Tankassin was mainly PvE until now. I've bought both the Survivor & Stalker recruit sets. I also have full Rakata Survivor & Stalker, with a few Black Hole tanking mods/implants. Which would make me more of an asset to a team? Rakata/Black hole mix, or full recruit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lijahrobinson Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 In PvP expertise is king. If you have queues popping at a half-way decent rate you will have full Battle Master Gear pretty quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishtim Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 For PVP please please please don't use PVE gear, PVP requires expertise since PVE gear doesn't have it you would just be a burden to your team Buy recruit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmasterr Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 So my alt Tankassin was mainly PvE until now. I've bought both the Survivor & Stalker recruit sets. I also have full Rakata Survivor & Stalker, with a few Black Hole tanking mods/implants. Which would make me more of an asset to a team? Rakata/Black hole mix, or full recruit? Until you are sitting above ~1100 expertise you can not afford to have 1 single pve item (maybe matrix cube). All your extra damage from stats gets negated by enemy player expertise, and you just melt when attacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryogenique Posted June 6, 2012 Author Share Posted June 6, 2012 Thanks guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Until you are sitting above ~1100 expertise you can not afford to have 1 single pve item (maybe matrix cube). All your extra damage from stats gets negated by enemy player expertise, and you just melt when attacked. Pretty much this. You are hurting your self and your team. I know when I see a weak link in a warzone I just take them out and usually its pretty quick and pretty ugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetou Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 To be honest, probably a combination. You need about 800 Expertise as an absolute minimum but beyond that you may get more mileage out of the PVE gear - especially the weapon and offhand. Looking at the amount of Expertise on the pure recruit gear, I'd suggest that something like all-recruit except for your rakata main hand and one other slot (probably a relic) is where you should be starting off if you have no comms saved up to get BM bits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timadan Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 hmmm I would think if you are going to play the role of guard stick with the rakata, in the recruit gear you are going to sit at 14k tops, with the rakata you are going to be well over the 20k mark no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zunayson Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 my concealment op seems to do more damage with Columi enforcer gear than bm healer gear >.< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Philar Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) I've found that Recruit gear is a waste of money if you are already in top end PvE gear. It is designed for fresh 50s who have crappy green/blue leveling gear so they don't melt when they get into a Warzone. If you want to start working on your PvP set you should be fine using your top end PvE gear as a starter set. You will replace items very quickly anyway, so again, the Recruit is just a waste of money for you. The lack of Expertise will hurt a little, but the higher endurance and higher base stats from your top end PvE gear will mitigate some of that making Recruit not really worth the credits. Before I start getting all the snarky "Expertise is god" responses, please note that I'm only saying Recruit isn't worth it if you have top end PvE gear. Anything less and you should absolutely buy the Recruit gear. Edited June 6, 2012 by Darth_Philar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmasterr Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I've found that Recruit gear is a waste of money if you are already in top end PvE gear. It is designed for fresh 50s who have crappy green/blue leveling gear so they don't melt when they get into a Warzone. If you want to start working on your PvP set you should be fine using your top end PvE gear as a starter set. You will replace items very quickly anyway, so again, the Recruit is just a waste of money for you. The lack of Expertise will hurt a little, but the higher endurance and higher base stats from your top end PvE gear will mitigate some of that making Recruit not really worth the credits. Before I start getting all the snarky "Expertise is god" responses, please note that I'm only saying Recruit isn't worth it if you have top end PvE gear. Anything less and you should absolutely buy the Recruit gear. Even if you are full denova gear, recruit is better. WHY? because while you might do more damage, you get 2 shotted by focus fire. And will spend most of your time in WZ, behind the ress door, where you will do a grand total of 0 damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aehgo Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I've found that Recruit gear is a waste of money if you are already in top end PvE gear. It is designed for fresh 50s who have crappy green/blue leveling gear so they don't melt when they get into a Warzone. If you want to start working on your PvP set you should be fine using your top end PvE gear as a starter set. You will replace items very quickly anyway, so again, the Recruit is just a waste of money for you. The lack of Expertise will hurt a little, but the higher endurance and higher base stats from your top end PvE gear will mitigate some of that making Recruit not really worth the credits. Before I start getting all the snarky "Expertise is god" responses, please note that I'm only saying Recruit isn't worth it if you have top end PvE gear. Anything less and you should absolutely buy the Recruit gear. Its people like you that ruin pvp for me.YOU CAN'T PVP IN PVE GEAR.FINAL. It doesn't matter if you have 25k,if you go 1V1 with a person in full recruit I'd bet on the recruit gear.Expertise is everything in PVP its the PVP STAT.I've been in games with a shadow tank in black hole pve with 25k health get annihilated in seconds.In pve gear you wont hurt BM,you will bruise recruit and you will tickle Warheros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Philar Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Even if you are full denova gear, recruit is better. WHY? because while you might do more damage, you get 2 shotted by focus fire. And will spend most of your time in WZ, behind the ress door, where you will do a grand total of 0 damage. Not really, the Endurance increase from top end PvE gear offsets a pretty large portion of the increased damage you will be taking. Compared to Recruit it is pretty close to a statistical wash. If you have top end PvE gear, you are already practically in Recruit gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felli Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 That guy in recruit gear is going to tear through your 25k hp cause he's doing +12% additional damage to you and taking 10% less damage from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishtim Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Not really, the Endurance increase from top end PvE gear offsets a pretty large portion of the increased damage you will be taking. Compared to Recruit it is pretty close to a statistical wash. If you have top end PvE gear, you are already practically in Recruit gear. Extra endurance means squat in PVP if you don't have the expertise to back it up anyone with any PVP gear will destroy you hands down unless they really suck Also found this nice post on another thread that pretty much sums un expertise and why it's needed Expertise does three things, all them in PVP only: a) Increases the damage you do to other players, b) decreases the damage you take from other players and c) increases the healing you do in pvp, if applicable. Expertise is tuned so two players with the same expertise will cancel each other out. The percent bonus may look uneven, but due to the order of the calculations it's actually a wash. This may make Expertise sound unimportant but nothing could be further from the truth: Expertise is essential for pvp. If you into endgame PVP without expertise gear, you will get melted and it will suck. Luckily, there is a recruit set available from the recruit pvp vendor for a relatively small amount of credits. Once you hit level 50, do all the bonus missions on Belsavis, Ilum and Corellia and you'll have more than enough for this set. Note that you don't really need expertise if you're doing pvp pre-level 50. The game "bolsters" your stats to level 49 to make everyone more or less even. Now, if you dig a little deeper you'll notice that Expertise gear has lower main stats than comparable PVE gear. This is done intentionally to make the PVP gear only viable in PVP, and converely the PVE gear is only viable in PVE. Bioware wants the progression and rewards for doing the two different types of content to be separate. You may disagree with this philosophy, but the reality is that this is the case and attempts to game the system will backfire. TL;DR: Get your recruit set from the PVP Recruit vendor before you join your first level 50 warzone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achyllis Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Yes expertise matters. Last night someone named Sushmita (sp?) lost 4 WZs in a row steadfastly claiming her 400 expertise didn't matter. "Do the math you imbecile" she said. She got no heals. Bonus wisdom - be nice to your healers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digtahk Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I know when I see a weak link in a warzone I just take them out and usually its pretty quick and pretty ugly. Doesn't take much skill to spot the weak link in a WZ....it is spotting someone with a modicum of skill that is difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cempa Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 So my alt Tankassin was mainly PvE until now. I've bought both the Survivor & Stalker recruit sets. I also have full Rakata Survivor & Stalker, with a few Black Hole tanking mods/implants. Which would make me more of an asset to a team? Rakata/Black hole mix, or full recruit? Calculate theoretical health pool and then come up with a damage/healing number. You might find a mix is best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Philar Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Its people like you that ruin pvp for me.YOU CAN'T PVP IN PVE GEAR.FINAL. It doesn't matter if you have 25k,if you go 1V1 with a person in full recruit I'd bet on the recruit gear.Expertise is everything in PVP its the PVP STAT.I've been in games with a shadow tank in black hole pve with 25k health get annihilated in seconds.In pve gear you wont hurt BM,you will bruise recruit and you will tickle Warheros. I just ran the numbers comparing full Recruit to full Black Hole (no Relics, Datacrons, or Buffs) for a Sorcerer. Black Hole gear has the following statistical advantages over Recruit (note that the PvP Expertise Bonuses have already been taken into account) Bonus Damage - 4.18% Bonus Healing - 23.09% Health - 33.11% Damage Reduction - 10.01% My facts crit your anecdote for 100% health. Your argument dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RefugeASSASSIN Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Yes expertise matters. Last night someone named Sushmita (sp?) lost 4 WZs in a row steadfastly claiming her 400 expertise didn't matter. "Do the math you imbecile" she said. She got no heals. Bonus wisdom - be nice to your healers. This. Your also gimping your healers because its harder for them to keep you up as you mitigate 10% of the healing done to you as well so you get less, and they get less credit for it. most healers I know wont even look at you if your not in PVP gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jherad Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) To those who don't understand why expertise is better than a bigger health pool, try to look at it this way (using arbitrary numbers): Remembering that expertise improves your damage output, and reduces your incoming damage... Say I have lots of expertise, and have 16khp. You do 4k damage per attack to me. You have no expertise, and have 20k hp. I do 5k damage per attack to you. We both kill each other in 4 attacks - all evens out, right? Wrong. We have each have a pocket healer... Guess which one has to work harder? Now scale that up to a full warzone, with multiple healers, and people attacking you at any one time (albeit with lower average attack numbers) and the problem multiplies. The extra health is not helping you to survive any longer (as you die in the same amount of hits), and your lack of expertise just makes the healers you have work harder (which is why many will simply ignore people in PvE gear). The disparity widens considerably when you move up the tiers of PvP gear. Hope this helps. Edited June 6, 2012 by Jherad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) Its people like you that ruin pvp for me.YOU CAN'T PVP IN PVE GEAR.FINAL. It doesn't matter if you have 25k,if you go 1V1 with a person in full recruit I'd bet on the recruit gear.Expertise is everything in PVP its the PVP STAT.I've been in games with a shadow tank in black hole pve with 25k health get annihilated in seconds.In pve gear you wont hurt BM,you will bruise recruit and you will tickle Warheros. Wrong. I bet you grief people about it too. SMH..... Follow the link read note 262, if you care to see a real comparision. Not really, the Endurance increase from top end PvE gear offsets a pretty large portion of the increased damage you will be taking. Compared to Recruit it is pretty close to a statistical wash. If you have top end PvE gear, you are already practically in Recruit gear. Right. Actually Tio/Columi is pretty close to recruit gear and with the legacy belts/bracers available, you are fine in 51/56 epics... Recruit gear is for people who: 1. Don't raid 2. Don't want to do dailies for FREE enhancements/mods/Armor. They are swiss cheese and claiming "gains" in expertise does not make them swiss cheese to ANYONE is a lie. I can facetank recruit geared Mar in my "PvE"(600EXP) gear..... Edited June 6, 2012 by L-RANDLE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achyllis Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Wrong. I bet you grief people about it too. SMH..... Follow the link read note 262, if you care to see a real comparision. Right. Actually Tio/Columi is pretty close to recruit gear and with the legacy belts/bracers available, you are fine in 51/56 epics... Recruit gear is for people who: 1. Don't raid 2. Don't want to do dailies for FREE enhancements/mods/Armor. They are swiss cheese and claiming "gains" in expertise does not make them swiss cheese to ANYONE is a lie. I can facetank recruit geared Mar in my "PvE"(600EXP) gear..... So it's far better than new level 50 PvE greens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anwg Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I wouldn't wear PvE gear in the visible slots just for the aggro factor alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 So it's far better than new level 50 PvE greens. Somewhat, but some are actually worst than LvL 49 Epics, especially if you are: A: Crafting them yourself B: Critting one... So Recruit pieces to replace those are pretty much a waste of creds too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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