Why TOR's storyline is so disappointing?

[Gordoma]

I'm most definitely not disappointed with the class story-lines. Although its hard to see the long term ramifications of your decisions without replaying, I've noticed several without rerolling the same class. I think the Sith Warrior has some clear decisions were certain conversation options completely alter later encounters to make them easier or harder. There is a a decision in the SI story that has me really puzzled as to how it impacts the future story (I was lightside).

[USMCjv]

your jedi knight killing the emporer and not effecting the story outside of your bubble????

 

we all lost our imortal emporer because of you and had to put down one of our best darth lords because of that little incedent you roll your eyes at. now we have that pathetic sith serivan [i think hes in charge now??? ] from voss in charge and hes a idot and horrible sith [seriously who wrote this guy he acts more like a moff then a sith]

 

 

edit: six months after release its up to people who dont want story spoiled to stay out of threads that are about story. I feel no obligation to hide spoilers this far after release. people are resposible for them selves and do not need to be coddled

Some people play multiple alts which takes a lot more time to level or are just new to the game, and don't want to read spoilers in general forums they have a specific sub thread in the story and lore forums for spoilers http://www.swtor.com/community/forumdisplay.php?f=248.

[Vis-Tecum]

Some people play multiple alts which takes a lot more time to level or are just new to the game, and don't want to read spoilers in general forums they have a specific sub thread in the story and lore forums for spoilers http://www.swtor.com/community/forumdisplay.php?f=248.

 

then stay out of threads discussing the games story. but dont worry the moderators are there to walk you to school and make sure you wear your helmet and pin your mittens to your coat too

 

I guess people are not responsible for themselves and need to be coddled

Edited June 5, 2012 by Vis-Tecum

[USMCjv]

then stay out of threads discussing the games story. but dont worry the moderators are there to walk you to school and make sure you wear your helmet and pin your mittens to your coat too

 

I guess people are not responsible for themselves and need to be coddled

I've already seen that storyline but there is a specific thread for posting spoilers, not to mention how easy it is to add spoiler tags. No need to ruin the game for someone who doesn't play exactly as you do or just bought it.

[Lordgeneral]

It is simply because it has no consequences for whatever actions you choose. It doesn't really matter which option you pick, the next part of the story ends the exact same way for every choice. And it doesn't really matter which dialogue option you choose either, all you *maybe* get is a different response.

 

I mean you never get different gear, special items, credits, or anything of that sort based on storyline options, i think it's just kinda bland for a game that is a carbon copy of WOW (except the voiceovers ofcourse) to just have it stall out completely once u pick ur different option.

 

I mean if you are going to imbed story into an MMO or any game, for that matter, atleast make it feel like it's important right?

 

And don't even get me started on dark/light side... the only benefits too this are equipping RELICS? Or looking sick if ur too far into the darkside?

 

 

I remember in an interview prior too the games release, one of the developers was like... *You will be able too choose different options for your storyline in flashpoints, that will affect what *BOSSES* you fight inside it... And the only flashpoint for which it's available is in Black Talon LOL! 1 stinky boss with 0 twists too it anyway, making it such a joke too even implement and talk about honestly.

 

 

I mean so much hype about TOR's storyline, i just don't even see how it's impressive at all, doesn't even feel like it matters (which it doesn't apparently).

 

And for those who say, too give it time. It won't have ANY time or chance too improve if it's DEAD now will it? I think it's pretty obvious that thier first impression was what mattered most...

 

 

Oh your the guy that made a "i'm quitting look at me!" thread not long ago XD, stayed around did we?

[Caspian_Rho]

I've seen less predictable storylines in Barney.... It was never going to be any good anyway, just looking at the conveyor belt of cliches Bioware is pumping out the last few years. Story by numbers, typical borefest lines, shock horror haven't seen that twist since 1997. Every quest, mechanic in this game is just a regurgitation of something they've done in the last few years.

 

Below average yawnarama that is a one trick donkey. And why does Mako give you minus points for making Bounty Hunter decisions when you're a Bounty Hunter??

Edited June 5, 2012 by Zilrota
removed inappropriate

[revial]

No video game story has consequences. Some are simply better at hiding the fact that it's all pre-scripted and pre-ordained better than others, is all.

 

Whining over this issue is so silly.

[Kaisernick]

The story tries too hard.

My Jedi Knight solo killing the Sith Emperor and never effects the course of events outside my own little story world and getting a little 2 minute celebration at the end? Yeah I was really enthralled with that one.......

 

the false emperor ties directally into what happens with the knight story.

[Jandi]

I've seen less predictable storylines in Barney.... It was never going to be any good anyway, just looking at the conveyor belt of cliches Bioware is pumping out the last few years. Story by numbers, typical borefest lines, shock horror haven't seen that twist since 1997. Every quest, mechanic in this game is just a regurgitation of something they've done in the last few years.

 

Below average yawnarama that is a one trick donkey. And why does Mako give you minus points for making Bounty Hunter decisions when you're a Bounty Hunter??

 

You do realize that every fathomable story has been told centuries ago, right? Every possible twist, plot, scenario and event has been depicted before countless times. Do you know why that is? Because coherent sequence of events only has so many variables before it becomes nonsense.

 

There hasn't been a single "new and interesting" fictional story since the times of Plato. Get real. Or even better, go to the library and read something really, really old.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Jandi

[Oggthebase]

to the OP: stop spacebarring through the game zipping to level 50.

A story is told through the eyes of the viewer, that is you. Maybe you should remove whatever is in your eyes, so you can see better.

 

Of course the main story arc will stay the same for everyone, but the journey is more important than the destination. You're waving the word "consequence" every sentence, but I'm not sure you understand what it means. There ARE consequences in this game.

- some will be acknowledged, other will not, but it's a game, activate your brain, use your imagination and make up the consequences of your own decisions if the game does not write it out for you.

- some will have no impact on the storyline, but some will. Why would choosing the colour of your socks in the morning impact the way political events unfold in the galaxy?

- some will have little impact, some will change it significantly from a background point of view. If you have not encountered any it's because you spacebarred too fast.

 

A few NPCs will tell you in the dialogue that it will be helpful to do this or that. It's not part of his mission, but if you do listen then it is often a bonus mission that unlocks. Sometimes you'll unlock it just "because you're destroying everything in sight". Sometimes you'll have to go out of your way. But there are consequences. The NPC will acknowledge that you did indeed complete the bonus mission.

[Mutive]

You know, to be fair, I *do* think that TOR has a less good story (in general) than most single player games. With that said, I'm in awe as to how good a lot of the stories are, considering the restraints. Let's be fair and take into consideration:

 

1. Every game has to end with the same world, a world that is pretty much unchanged for most players no matter which choices you make. So any "big decision" you make still has to feed into an identical end game. (And even identical mid-game.)

 

2. Each class has to follow the same order of planets (roughly) and give you enough xp that you're not ahead of or behind other classes. This is part of why every class I've played has some slow spots. The writer just couldn't figure out why you had to go to say, Balmorra or Tatooine, so came up with a not so great excuse to get you there. (SW is a particular offender with it's "Well, we're looking for a Jedi on Aldaraan...but why don't you hit all these other planets first just because.")

 

3. Stories have to "feel" like the Star Wars class they represent. People did not want to play a Sith Warrior who picked flowers and wrote love poetry or a Jedi Knight who confronted the big bad and said, "Nah, you can win. It's okay." This removes a lot of freedom from the writers. Smuggler has to feel vaguely Han Solo, Sith Warrior faintly Vader, Jedi Knight somewhat Luke Skywalker, etc. etc. The only ones with much freedom at all are agent and trooper.

 

4. Each class is written for multiple species (or at least a human/alien division), two genders, and multiple alignments. And all of these factors need to be kept track of, in addition to any choices that your character makes within the game.

A point that comes to mind is sparing Ardun Kothe just to have him later return and play an important part in the agent storyline. I can't even imagine what a pain that was to program in, esp. as only a portion of characters kept him around. And that was one character. If you tried to do this for every plot point, it would be chaos, esp. over 8 character classes, two genders, a bunch of species, two alignments, etc.

 

 

5. The story lines need to tie in together. (Some do this better than others.) You can't have this big event happening in one story, yet it being totally ignored by everyone else. I honestly think TOR excels at this. I crack up *every time* I hear about Garza Imperial side or about what Baras' little apprentice is doing.

Oh, and Doc's personal quest? Yeah...I'm still convinced that was the best thing ever.

 

 

And yet, despite all these challenges, I've found most of the classes have still been fairly entertaining and coherent. Yeah, if you really want a single player game, TOR probably isn't going to have the best story because of the limitations inherent in an MMO. (You have to be the same place as other players at your level + you can't make any world changing decisions that give you a different world than everyone else.) But with that in mind, I thought the writers did a remarkable job. The world is fairly consistent (not perfectly, but fairly). Stuff that happens in one story line makes sense within the rest. I felt like I had *some* control over the fate of my character and the universe. Yeah, if I wanted a splashy, single player game, there are others that I think are better story-line wise. (Or I could, you know, read a book, most of which have better writing than any game.) But for an MMO, I think TOR did a remarkable job.

[Claybirdious]

Have you played the Imp Agents storyline fully? It's pretty awesome.

[Heweyblade]

This

 

This

[LarryRow]

Of course your story doesn't have a huge impact on the game world. This isn't Dragon Age Origins where

 

You can allow a major city to fall and it's deserted for the rest of the game, or install one drawven ruler over another

 

 

If your choice affected one of the planets, it would have to look one way for you and another way for the guy next to you, which would be nuts.

 

The only way around this is to have your decisions matter in a small, incremental way, and there is a large aggregate effect on the server. For example, a repeatable quest on Belsavis where you either side with the prisoners and help them escape or side with the wardens and help prevent their escape. The degree to which the planet is overrun with escaped prisoners will be decided by the sum total of player choices on this quest.

[wavyhill]

It is simply because it has no consequences for whatever actions you choose. It doesn't really matter which option you pick, the next part of the story ends the exact same way for every choice. And it doesn't really matter which dialogue option you choose either, all you *maybe* get is a different response.

 

I mean if you are going to imbed story into an MMO or any game, for that matter, atleast make it feel like it's important right?

There are lots of reasons to be disappointed with SWTOR beyond the abuse of the patented Bioware "nothing you do matters beyond the next line of dialogue" method of 'player choice.' Poor pacing, lack of scope, short length, uneven writing, annoying characters, and other things abound. Personally, I find that the most consistently disappointing aspect to be how at odds the plot is with the game mechanics.

 

What I mean by that is that the structure of the leveling game, i.e. quest hubs sprinkled around with bread crumbs leading the player from one hub to the next, is not especially conductive to telling a strong story. What happens is that it gets muddled with all the other little stories that you have to pick up at these hubs so that you can advance properly. It's very easy to lose interest in a story if you keep having to dip in and out of it all the bloody time and can almost never really immerse yourself within it for any real length of time.

 

I mean, look at all the crap you have to keep straight when you're leveling: the class story, the planet story, a story for each of your pets, a story for every dungeon, and a story for damn near all of the incidental quests you have to pick up along the way. Having to pick up and drop stories so damn often is a lot to ask of someone in any medium, but even more so in a video game because you already have to drop in and out of the story a lot since video game stories are almost entirely told via cut scenes anymore. The part where you run around killing everything in sight rarely helps to move the plot along.

 

All this track switching all the bloody time is not a task many people excel at. For a good example go watch the ending of Ep. 1, which has 4 bloody concurrent plot threads for the audience to keep track of. As a result they don't ever get to spend too much time on any one thread and the audience never really gets to be immersed in any one part of the story. It's always switching back and forth between crap that should[/i, in theory,] be interesting, but isn't because they can never become engrossed in any one segment long enough to form any sort of emotional connection to it.

 

So we have that crap going on almost the entire length of the leveling game in SWTOR. It's one of the major reasons that the non-planet quests you typically get near the end of the chapters tend to feel so much better than the ones you get on the planets as part of your allotment of xp grinding. There are certainly other issues with the game, but I feel that this is probably the biggest one. Most of the others can be mostly forgiven due to how infrequently they appear or excused as personal taste, but I don't believe this issue can be hand waved with such excuses.

 

Also, I find they did bend the truth a bit prior to launch with their "its gonna be 8 games! 8 full stories like kotor 3+4+5+ etc"...its 2 full stories, republic and imperial...then there are 6 more shortstories coming along with 90% story you arlready know.

Yes. Expectation management, both for the developers and the players, has obviously been way out of whack for a long, long time with this game. I mean, even with ~6 years and their hundreds of millions of dollars they still had to cut a lot of crap and scramble to launch when they did with what they had.

 

The sort of rampant, runaway hype that their marketing people cultivated years back is absolutely toxic to both developing and playing games and I have trouble fathoming why the industry still encourages it.

 

No video game story has consequences. Some are simply better at hiding the fact that it's all pre-scripted and pre-ordained better than others, is all.

 

Whining over this issue is so silly.

How predictably pedantic. The illusion of choice is still important, especially when it's one of the major taglines used to sell the bloody game.

 

You do realize that every fathomable story has been told centuries ago, right? Every possible twist, plot, scenario and event has been depicted before countless times. Do you know why that is? Because coherent sequence of events only has so many variables before it becomes nonsense.

 

There hasn't been a single "new and interesting" fictional story since the times of Plato. Get real. Or even better, go to the library and read something really, really old.

You do realize that most people don't actually expect that every facet of a story be absolutely and utterly original, right? There are good reasons for things like genres and tropes to exist. Mostly people just want an engaging tale. Part of being engaging is not being too predictable because that's boring as hell. Unfortunately, not being predictable isn't something Bioware is very good at. They're typically much better at making interesting characters than interesting plots and the writing is uneven at best (ref. the 'payment in kisses' issue.)

 

to the OP: stop spacebarring through the game zipping to level 50.

And people think I'm insulting. Has it occurred to you that maybe, just maybe some of us have done all that jazz and still found the whole vaunted 'Fourth Pillar' to be, shall we say, underwhelming?

 

Of course your story doesn't have a huge impact on the game world. This isn't Dragon Age Origins where

 

You can allow a major city to fall and it's deserted for the rest of the game, or install one drawven ruler over another

 

 

If your choice affected one of the planets, it would have to look one way for you and another way for the guy next to you, which would be nuts.

Maybe, but that doesn't explain why there is so very little carryover from one instanced area to another. There are a couple of nice touches here and there, but by and large it feels unimpressive and exceedingly minor to me.

[JediElf]

Personally I'm quite happy with how the stories have turned out in TOR. While I may have some issues here, and there, overall I find the experience to be quite enjoyable, and heck, it beats out the tired old MMO text boxes any day.

 

I understand that they had to make some concessions, in order for the story to work in an exterior world that can't change too drastically, but I think that with the story instances it is handled very well.

 

So far, so good...at least for me.

 

[LarryRow]

What I mean by that is that the structure of the leveling game, i.e. quest hubs sprinkled around with bread crumbs leading the player from one hub to the next, is not especially conductive to telling a strong story. What happens is that it gets muddled with all the other little stories that you have to pick up at these hubs so that you can advance properly. It's very easy to lose interest in a story if you keep having to dip in and out of it all the bloody time and can almost never really immerse yourself within it for any real length of time.

 

Quoted the paragraph that best encapsulated your point, although your whole post was very good. Indeed, there have been many times where I've felt like this, and many times where even the game makes you feel like this. The story is racing along, you're really into it, and then you're all but forced to step away from it to side quest.

 

The most egregious example has got to be Jedi Prisoner / Call to Arms. On the republic side, for example, you do this awesome story-driven flashpoint Taral V at level ~33, and the story builds this huge sense of urgency, catapulting you into Maelstrom Prison. Oh, but wait. Maelstrom Prison is like level 37. Guess I won't be rescuing that Jedi prisoner for a few days. Is that OK, Master Oteg, I mean, there's no rush, right?

[Deylan]

It is simply because it has no consequences for whatever actions you choose. It doesn't really matter which option you pick, the next part of the story ends the exact same way for every choice. And it doesn't really matter which dialogue option you choose either, all you *maybe* get is a different response.

 

I mean you never get different gear, special items, credits, or anything of that sort based on storyline options, i think it's just kinda bland for a game that is a carbon copy of WOW (except the voiceovers ofcourse) to just have it stall out completely once u pick ur different option.

 

I mean if you are going to imbed story into an MMO or any game, for that matter, atleast make it feel like it's important right?

 

And don't even get me started on dark/light side... the only benefits too this are equipping RELICS? Or looking sick if ur too far into the darkside?

 

 

I remember in an interview prior too the games release, one of the developers was like... *You will be able too choose different options for your storyline in flashpoints, that will affect what *BOSSES* you fight inside it... And the only flashpoint for which it's available is in Black Talon LOL! 1 stinky boss with 0 twists too it anyway, making it such a joke too even implement and talk about honestly.

 

 

I mean so much hype about TOR's storyline, i just don't even see how it's impressive at all, doesn't even feel like it matters (which it doesn't apparently).

 

And for those who say, too give it time. It won't have ANY time or chance too improve if it's DEAD now will it? I think it's pretty obvious that thier first impression was what mattered most...

 

I guess if you're speaking from the perspective of items/equipment, then yes. But I think the story is quite rich and conversational options add a nice dimension to character progression.

 

That being said I would like to see choice-specific equipment implemented into the end-game.

[aeterno]

TORs overall story is epic.

 

That's its main problem. It's too epic.

 

The main story concludes and then there is a void. TOR lore is missing a certain something at this stage. It's like the writers didnt really think things through long term enoug.

 

 

The villans they build up all end up dead in the latter parts of the story. Malgus takes a tumble. Emperor gets knighted. The war seems all but wrapped up after corellia somehow.

 

 

There is nothing substantional to look forward to lore wise in the SWTOR universe.

 

I mean who really gives a flip about the hutts invading planets, really.

 

Where is TORs Lich king? Deathwing? Some red line personality that will make players want to buy an expansion just to eventually stick it to him in an epic fight? Or even a MOP style focus on faction conflict?

There is nothing of that sort. What they built up in promo material and during the game they tore down in flashpoints and class quests. The universe is so bland at this stage it's sad. Like they jumped the shark right after getting out of the gate.

 

A big writing blunder imo. Great SPRPG stuff, baaaad for MMO. The first expansion has a mountain to climb.

Edited June 8, 2012 by aeterno

[Mutive]

TORs overall story is epic.

 

That's its main problem. It's too epic.

 

The main story concludes and then there is a void. TOR lore is missing a certain something at this stage. It's like the writers didnt really think things through long term enoug.

 

 

IDK, depends on the story. Agent felt like it was just starting. (And almost all of the "villains" could be and/or are still alive.)

 

Plus, new villains can be created - or resurrected. So I'm not all that worried.

[Ranadiel_Marius]

TORs overall story is epic.

 

That's its main problem. It's too epic.

 

The main story concludes and then there is a void. TOR lore is missing a certain something at this stage. It's like the writers didnt really think things through long term enoug.

 

 

The villans they build up all end up dead in the latter parts of the story. Malgus takes a tumble. Emperor gets knighted. The war seems all but wrapped up after corellia somehow.

 

 

There is nothing substantional to look forward to lore wise in the SWTOR universe.

 

I mean who really gives a flip about the hutts invading planets, really.

 

Where is TORs Lich king? Deathwing? Some red line personality that will make players want to buy an expansion just to eventually stick it to him in an epic fight? Or even a MOP style focus on faction conflict?

There is nothing of that sort. What they built up in promo material and during the game they tore down in flashpoints and class quests. The universe is so bland at this stage it's sad. Like they jumped the shark right after getting out of the gate.

 

A big writing blunder imo. Great SPRPG stuff, baaaad for MMO. The first expansion has a mountain to climb.

 

 

For starters the Emperor is still alive. Malgus probably is still alive. As for future enemies, we know that the Dread Masters are going to be the villians in a few upcoming quests from leaks/datamining.

 

As for the Hutts, they basically represent the underworld and are the closest thing to a third faction that exists in the universe at this time. So I would think people should care about them invading lanets.

 

[SgtWalt]

You're speaking only for yourself, I'm afraid. I don't find the storyline disappointing at all. I'm rather impressed by it, actually. The game has a few flaws, but the story isn't one of them. For me, anyway.

 

He is speaking for more than just himself. The story lines are way to linear, and he is right, no choice matters at all. The end result is always the same and makes for nothing but a dead story for any other class you choose.

Edited June 9, 2012 by SgtWalt

[SgtWalt]

The (class) stories are pretty good and stuff.

 

I agree that its disappointing that none of the converstation options really have any consequence worth mentioning. Also, I find they did bend the truth a bit prior to launch with their "its gonna be 8 games! 8 full stories like kotor 3+4+5+ etc"...its 2 full stories, republic and imperial...then there are 6 more shortstories coming along with 90% story you arlready know.

 

Completely agree.

[SgtWalt]

There are actually many consequences. Have you even gotten to level 50? You're presented a big choice no matter what, and your payments, ds/ls points, affection (how well your companions work(, and, once again, rewards, are affected.

 

Twice I have gotten to lvl 50 and close to a 3rd time now. There is nothing you pick that effects the end game of your class. When you win you win, end of story and its very very linear. None of your choices have any effect on the game world as far as your character is concerned. If you have a choice on wether or not to save someone and sacrifice another, that someone still dies as well as the other in that quest. There is nothing you can do that will change your story at all.

[Flyceratops]

I love the story!

 

The decisions you make in the story, are not so much about changing the outcome of your story, rather it is about the emotion behind those decisions.

 

There has been a lot of times while playing that I found myself stuck on a hard choice ('do I kill him, or let him go'). No matter what, that choice is not gong to alter the direction of the game or the story...but it allowed me to give my character a voice.

Actually, the IA storyline does change a whole lot depending on your answers in some of the key scenes, and there are 3-5 different IA endings. So it can alter the direction of the whole story, though the IA storyline was probably the most blatant one for the 'affect your own destiny' thing.