Backpeddling

[Izola]

I have a 50 healerr, 50 range DPS and a 50 melee DPS. I promise you there is NEVER a good time to backpeddle. There is no situation where you were better off having used move backward.

 

UNBIND it and i promise you will be a better player.

 

Like Swidgen says, your putting a 50% slow on yourself, and we've all heard "Mobility is King in PvP".

Trust me, if you backpeddle your doing it wrong and someone who does not will have an advantage over you.

 

Untoggle Smart Camera, and STOP BACKPEDDLING NOW, youll be better for it in the long run, I GUARANTEE IT!!

Edited June 5, 2012 by Izola

[Pistols]

Checkout taugrim.com, he has a guide for basic keymapping setups to learn to keybind and mouse turn for those that are not used to it. It's a good place to start and you can customize from there.

 

 

While I don't know of an specific vid on it the first thing you should do is start running around just using the mouse by depressing both the left and the right click buttons at the same time. All of your movement comes from a flick of the wrist. What I suggested to someone else having trouble with this is to simply run laps around the fleet, zigzag in and out of obstacles and other players alike. It shouldn't take more than 20 min or so to get a decent feeling of this. Once you do that then go find some trash pve mobs, where any mistakes are easily forgiven, and do the same thing. Run through the mob, get the feel of tab targeting and facing while moving, try and hit each enemy once before you hit the same d00d again.

 

After that then you are going to want to spend some time mapping out your keybinds. The idea behind it is this frees up your left hand completely from any movement aside from the odd strafe here and there. I use shift q + e for strafing and removed a, s and d altogether for movement purposes. That free's up good real estate for skills and abilities that are easily accessible with the left hand. If you are a class with some type of backstab (op or assassin) you will notice how much easier it is to get these abilities off just by not moving and turning with the keyboard.

 

Awesome, I'll check out the site and start gettin on this. I know the basics of it all, just never really practiced it. Bout time I do though.

[UGLYMRJ]

I'm not trying to flame you. But I don't think any of these points are valid. Here's why:

 

1. It's not quicker to backpeddle. Turning/Strafing is still faster. Furthermore, what do you do if your target happens to move closer to you (you can never know)? Since you're slower, you'll be further from your Leap than you were before.

 

2. It being harder doesn't mean it isn't more efficient.

 

3. This is true, to a point, but it's more of a philosophical argument. This is the argument "As long as you have fun playing the game, it is fine", just put differently. Which is fine, I can't argue with that. But it changes the rules of the discussion, which started out as "what is mathematically the BEST?" I still haven't heard any argument proving Backpeddling is in any way, at any possible moment, better than moving at full speed. The closest you get is a sorc that needs to cast Death Field while running away, but with enough skill this is still possible while kiting by jumpturning.

 

Not seeking to flame or anything, I just hope my points come over in the constructive way they were meant.

 

1. I should have clarified... I will only do this for a target that is not targeting me. But yes... for 1-2 steps, pretty damn sure it's quicker and in certain situations you do not have the option to strafe much, wall, traps, AOE's etc.

2. Pretty sure you didn't understand ANYTHING i was trying to say... because your reply makes no sense to me at all. Maybe I worded something wrong.

3. And yes... statistically it doesn't make sense, my point was only that there are situational events where on rare occasion a short 1-2 step back pedal can be effective. I don't see it being useful more than that nor do I recommend anyone getting in the habit of it... my point was only in response to anyone who used the word "NEVER". Personally I would replace that with "hardly ever"

[Izola]

1. I should have clarified... I will only do this for a target that is not targeting me. But yes... for 1-2 steps, pretty damn sure it's quicker and in certain situations you do not have the option to strafe much, wall, traps, AOE's etc.

2. Pretty sure you didn't understand ANYTHING i was trying to say... because your reply makes no sense to me at all. Maybe I worded something wrong.

3. And yes... statistically it doesn't make sense, my point was only that there are situational events where on rare occasion a short 1-2 step back pedal can be effective. I don't see it being useful more than that nor do I recommend anyone getting in the habit of it... my point was only in response to anyone who used the word "NEVER". Personally I would replace that with "hardly ever"

 

NEVER!!! NEVER EVER EVER EVER NEED TO BACKPEDDLE

 

Its quicker to strafe and mouse turn, you cant argue MATH.

 

MATH IS MATH, stop backpeddling!!

[cashogy]

there is a post somewhere on these forums that details why backpedaling is not always a bad thing. perhaps the OP shouldn't immediately dismiss strategies that he feels aren't worthy of his action.

 

backpedaling is ALWAYS a bad thing. saying otherwise instantly labels you as a baddie.

 

i suggest unbinding 's' altogether to break your habit cold turkey. you can strafe and attack at almost a 90 degree angle, so you can always be running at full speed

 

even more advanced, you could bind 's' to something else entirely. for instance, i have 's' bound to flamethower, since i rarely use it but dont want to waste time clicking the skill.

[UGLYMRJ]

NEVER!!! NEVER EVER EVER EVER NEED TO BACKPEDDLE

 

Its quicker to strafe and mouse turn, you cant argue MATH.

 

MATH IS MATH, stop backpeddling!!

 

Every post is always the same... I am right, everyone else is wrong. Did you even read it before you quoted it? I said it was a very RARE situation... and most importantly it's situational. Here's some math for you...

 

If a train is traveling 65 MPH and needs to go 346 miles... How long will it take that train to reach it's destination if it gets hit by a tornado?

 

See my point yet?

Edited June 6, 2012 by Arzhanin
Rude comments

[Izola]

Every post is always the same... I am right, everyone else is wrong. Did you even read it before you quoted it? I said it was a very RARE situation... and most importantly it's situational. Here's some math for you...

 

If a train is traveling 65 MPH and needs to go 346 miles... How long will it take that train to reach it's destination if it gets hit by a tornado?

 

See my point yet?

 

NO i dont agree with you, i read your post.

 

Backpeddle should NEVER be used. NEVER isnt "hardly ever", its NEVER!!!

 

im telling you to unbind it, your telling me there might be a situation to use it. I DISAGREE.

 

NEVER EVER NEVER BACKPEDDLE.

 

Put an important ability with a long cooldown on your old backpeddle keybind so when you hit it you penalize yourself and stop with the muscle memory

Edited June 6, 2012 by Arzhanin
Quoted removed content

[Astarica]

I love how all the people assume it takes them no time to turn around, even though if that was true then I should see people strafing while running away. After all, if you can turn around instantly, then you can run away at maximum speed while still facing the enemy (turning takes no time). And Marauders would be a pretty weak class if people can pull this off, since you can kite them fine if you can move away from them at full speed while still facing them.

 

It takes time to strafe, and the more perpendicular you are toward your enemy the easier it is for that guy to get behind you by moving forward, and once they get behind you, you got to make a 180 turn which takes some time. To further complicate things, you're not a machine and most likely won't turn exactly 180 degrees so your new path is now not exactly the same one you started with. It might even be the wrong path if you spin around too quickly. Strafing at a 45 degree angle is roughly 70% the speed compared to backpedaling at 50% (no idea if it's true, but sounds reasonable). It's faster but you're not exactly speedy gonzales and it's pretty easy for anyone to follow through. You probably should do it just because faster is still better but you're not really gaining much, if any, advantage here.

[cashogy]

I love how all the people assume it takes them no time to turn around, even though if that was true then I should see people strafing while running away. After all, if you can turn around instantly, then you can run away at maximum speed while still facing the enemy (turning takes no time). And Marauders would be a pretty weak class if people can pull this off, since you can kite them fine if you can move away from them at full speed while still facing them.

 

It takes time to strafe, and the more perpendicular you are toward your enemy the easier it is for that guy to get behind you by moving forward, and once they get behind you, you got to make a 180 turn which takes some time. To further complicate things, you're not a machine and most likely won't turn exactly 180 degrees so your new path is now not exactly the same one you started with. It might even be the wrong path if you spin around too quickly. Strafing at a 45 degree angle is roughly 70% the speed compared to backpedaling at 50% (no idea if it's true, but sounds reasonable). It's faster but you're not exactly speedy gonzales and it's pretty easy for anyone to follow through. You probably should do it just because faster is still better but you're not really gaining much, if any, advantage here.

 

it literally takes 0s to turn 180 degrees. your argument is invalid

[Groncho]

yep thats why i use a G-13 (and also use my mouse to turn) and i love destroying derps in mai shadow while im moving backwards bringing them to me and away from their healers

labeling ppl because they backpedall is pro

come at me son

Edited June 6, 2012 by Arzhanin
Quoted removed content

[TUXs]

I didn't read all 4 pages, but I do have that bad habit (and I do it often), I know there are better ways but haven't had a ton of MMO experience.

 

King of Bads. = (

 

I know ur kinda new to MMOs and probably not very good at PvP, so i'mma make this easy on you - hold down BOTH mouse buttons at all times! NEVER let go of them. EVER! Even if your casting, punch those bad boys down. Circle, circle, circle!!! It's like Nascar with a lightsaber! A little practice and you'll be moving like a TRUE Jedi Master in no time.

 

Edited June 5, 2012 by TUXs

[Astarica]

it literally takes 0s to turn 180 degrees. your argument is invalid

 

That's why Marauders are getting kited to death by any class with >4m range because it's clearly quite possible to kite them if it takes you no time to turn 180 degrees.

 

Honestly, you don't turn as fast you think, and you certainly won't turn 180 degrees accurately repeatedly which is what you need to do in these extremely stupid scenario people described where you start out facing perpendicular to the enemy so all he has to do is walk one step forward to get behind you. All the good players strafe at an angle as a compromise between speed and that turning requires nonzero time, and that turning is a manuever that needs to be minimized because you cannot repeatedly turn 180 degrees without any precision loss. In fact, this is why in very rare occasions you should backpedal because backpedal allows you to move 180 degrees in the opposite direction with complete precision.

Edited June 5, 2012 by Astarica

[Groncho]

I know ur kinda new to MMOs abd probably not very good at PvP, so i'mma make this easy on you - hold down BOTH mouse buttons at all times! NEVER let go of them. EVER! Even if your casting, punch those bad boys down. Circle, circle, circle!!! It's like Nascar with a lightsaber! A little practice and you'll be moving like a TRUE Jedi Master in no time.

 

 

yup pistols is like a newbie

lul

Edited June 5, 2012 by Groncho

[Gidoru]

I like to think of myself as a decent player and i get ranged classes are bad at this moment but why oh why does 95% of people playing ranged and melee in some cases back pedal? I counted through 9 games until i met someone who didn't back pedal. It is obvious that a lot of people playing are new to mmos can bioware make a video on how to strafe or even do the running away jumping instant cast technique (Didn't know how to phrase it) I am going to sounds arrogant here but i think it would benefit the pvp community if the people posting on here and in pvp were better at the game as face tanking shouldn't determine if a class is op and shouldn't be the way every ranged class plays 95% of the time.

 

To be on honest, backpeddling in this game isnt nearly as bad as it was in WoW. I cant say with 100% certainty but it seems to me like base movement speed in WoW is faster than it is in SWTOR(no sprint).

 

Secondly, kiting in this game is generally speaking not a viable strategy for most classes. At the very least kiting isnt nearly as practical as it is in WoW. Most of the ranged classes in this game lack the tools or mechanics to kite.

 

So yes id say backpeddling is still pretty bad in SWTOR, but its not as significant a disadvatange as it is in WoW.

[Maxipad]

yep thats why i use a G-13 (and also use my mouse to turn) and i love destroying derps in mai shadow while im moving backwards bringing them to me and away from their healers

labeling ppl because they backpedall is pro

come at me son

 

Ohh wow you use a G-13? You also don't keyboard turn?

 

Amazing player.

[cashogy]

I didn't read all 4 pages, but I do have that bad habit (and I do it often), I know there are better ways but haven't had a ton of MMO experience. I'm the one guy who does it the laughable way, but hey, I'd be willing to learn to not click and keyboard turn to better my gameplay...any chance there is a Youtube link or something that shows some basic movement binds and what not? I've always been a clicker, however I do have a handful of binds, but it's my movement habits that need work, and I will eventually get keybounding to all abilities. I'm not a pro player, but all I do is PvP so.

 

So yes, I want to get better, any help in this direction to some vids or sites be sweet.

 

Signed,

 

King of Bads. = (

 

i am the king of bads. you must strike me down in a real life honor duel if you want to dethrone me!

Edited June 5, 2012 by cashogy

[T-Assassin]

show your back to an Assassin or Operative, and you get what you deserve.

 

simple.

 

it's called tactics.

 

anyone that says backpeddling is bad, just for the sake of saying it, or comparing it to any situation in any other game, has no concept of combat and tactics.

 

also, there is much more to the question than just asking it.

 

situational circumstances, backpeddling might be a more efficient, as well as beneficial.

 

bout to finish off that Operative that cannot stab you in the back and need a 360* view of the battlefield...backpedal, while shooting and observing the battlefield...

 

it's situational, and definitely has a place in SWTOR.

[TUXs]

yup pistols is like a newbie

lul

 

I know he is, that's why it's always nice when one of the better PvPers in our community come in and offer solid PvP advice, like the OP was kind enough to do. Tell Pistols that when he reaches 50, not to panic, but he'll need to know more than left or right to succeed at PvP in this game. Over time, he'll develop the skillz necessary to make him a semi-decent PvPer...probably never on the level of someone like the OP, but certainly better than he is. Oh, also tell him that he may want to rebind things like his speeder being in the '1' position...as convenient as that may be for him when he pwns at PvE, he's probably better off putting an attack in that slot for PvP...just a suggestion

[Lithy]

NO i dont agree with you, i read your post.

 

Backpeddle should NEVER be used. NEVER isnt "hardly ever", its NEVER!!!

 

im telling you to unbind it, your telling me there might be a situation to use it. I DISAGREE.

 

NEVER EVER NEVER BACKPEDDLE.

 

Put an important ability with a long cooldown on your old backpeddle keybind so when you hit it you penalize yourself and stop with the muscle memory

 

Push back peddle once, then try to imitate it exactly into the same spot at the same speed efficiency. that's what he's saying. You don;t understand what he's saying, you really don't. 99.99999999999999999999% of times you never want to do that though... so w/e.

[Astarica]

To be on honest, backpeddling in this game isnt nearly as bad as it was in WoW. I cant say with 100% certainty but it seems to me like base movement speed in WoW is faster than it is in SWTOR(no sprint).

 

Secondly, kiting in this game is generally speaking not a viable strategy for most classes. At the very least kiting isnt nearly as practical as it is in WoW. Most of the ranged classes in this game lack the tools or mechanics to kite.

 

So yes id say backpeddling is still pretty bad in SWTOR, but its not as significant a disadvatange as it is in WoW.

 

Energy/Heat classes actually favor stop attacking at certain intervals to get to fast regen as opposed to constantly attack. SW archtype do not usually have any scenario they should backpedal at all. This leaves Sorc as the only class that is not resource-starved. Losing a GCD because someone got behind you is no big deal in SWTOR because you're waiting for your Force/Heat/Ammo/whatever to regen most of the time anyway.

 

At any rate neither backpedaling nor strafing is an effective defensive move. If someone can't follow you through either manuever they simply don't know how to pursue someone. Backpedalling is usually done for battlefield awareness reasons, because you presumably start out facing in a way that maximizes what you can see and there's a value in that. The more extreme the angle you strafe from, the less likely you'll see anything useful and that might come to haunt you later. For example, I try to always keep the Voidstar door in my sight so I will accept some disadvantage in manuevering to be able to see the door, since most of the time if I angle-strafe, that's when the stealthed guy popped out to bomb the door while I'm not looking at the direction of the door.

[Izola]

Push back peddle once, then try to imitate it exactly into the same spot at the same speed efficiency. that's what he's saying. You don;t understand what he's saying, you really don't. 99.99999999999999999999% of times you never want to do that though... so w/e.

 

NAH BRO, not 99.999999%......100% of the time.

 

NEVER is a definite term, there are no exceptions!!

 

If you make an excuse to backpeddle,, who knows what else you excuse in the name of good play.

[Lithy]

At any rate neither backpedaling nor strafing is an effective defensive move. If someone can't follow you through either manuever they simply don't know how to pursue someone. Backpedalling is usually done for battlefield awareness reasons, because you presumably start out facing in a way that maximizes what you can see and there's a value in that. The more extreme the angle you strafe from, the less likely you'll see anything useful and that might come to haunt you later. For example, I try to always keep the Voidstar door in my sight so I will accept some disadvantage in manuevering to be able to see the door, since most of the time if I angle-strafe, that's when the stealthed guy popped out to bomb the door while I'm not looking at the direction of the door.

 

I don't know what class you play but as a ranged take your target, then face your camera behind you at the door at zoom out. You'll be able to see people running right at you while still seeing behind you over your back to view the door, then just rotate, target something new, and put it back on the door, this allows me very easily to kill people who move too close to the center on the opposite door as me while still viewing my door to 100% efficiency and removes the need to backpeddle for visual purposes while on defence.

[kjpwv]

I unbound "s" for a few days, but then put it back because there are so many knock-backs, pulls, and pillars, there are plenty of times you just need a quick touch of the s key to get where you need to be.

 

You should almost never straight up backpedal in response to any attack, but having it here and there to give a quick tweak to your position is fine.

[Izola]

I don't know what class you play but as a ranged take your target, then face your camera behind you at the door at zoom out. You'll be able to see people running right at you while still seeing behind you over your back to view the door, then just rotate, target something new, and put it back on the door, this allows me very easily to kill people who move too close to the center on the opposite door as me while still viewing my door to 100% efficiency and removes the need to backpeddle for visual purposes while on defence.

 

Very well said.

[Motav]

If you MUST keyboard turn at least jump and turn so it's faster. Because you backpedal to stop my Mauls but I backpedal behind you and just laugh at your failure. Turn and face me like a man!