Backpeddling

[KBSIP]

Backpeddling is only looked down upon because of guys in wow like Swifty who have a habit of saying things like "LOLZ Derp Backpeddler!" I don't have anything against the guy, but alot of WoW pvpers have made him and his opinions into god's gospel. This isn't WoW. Don't get mad when i kill you while walking backwards.... derp.

 

^ this. people see backpedallers who are keyboard warrior vets of WoW's even lower quality PVP and instantly think fresh pickings, until they realize its a baiting mechanic and they've charged a superior geared/skilled player and allowed themselves to take considerable damage while charging.

 

developing over-generalizations is the sign of a weak mind.

[Diplomaticus]

Backpeddling is only looked down upon because of guys in wow like Swifty who have a habit of saying things like "LOLZ Derp Backpeddler!" I don't have anything against the guy, but alot of WoW pvpers have made him and his opinions into god's gospel. This isn't WoW. Don't get mad when i kill you while walking backwards.... derp.

 

I've never heard of this guy. I never had to be taught that Backpeddling isn't worthwhile, I pretty much figured that out myself.

 

I don't hate on the people who backpeddle though, as there is some logic to thinking that, if you want to move away from your target while still facing him, walking backwards would be the way to go. But it just isn't how it works mathematically. You move faster while still keeping LoS when you strafe. There is no way you can argue around this.

Edited June 5, 2012 by Diplomaticus

[Yeochins]

Backpedaling isn't bad. In fact it is good in some situations.

1. Goading the baddies who dismiss backpedaling away from objectives.
   
2. Efficiency over your keyboard - press one button without having to fidget with your camera freeing your cursor to better target multiple opponents.
   
3. Avoiding network lag - if your strafing and you need to adjust your camera there is a good chance the first 1/10th of a second of the beginning of your strafe you are pointed the wrong way on the server. This is catastrophic near edges of maps in say voidstar and huttball. You position yourself on the edges so people who jump to you actually land in mid air. Backpedalling is the safest way not to fall.
   

 

 

Number 3 is particularly important for those of you who have 100ms ping to the server.

Edited June 5, 2012 by Yeochins

[CharterMonkKent]

I sort of disagree, but from a "tank" in pvp perspective. I try to draw folks away from places sometimes. The other night in Voidstar I happened to notice it working while I back pedaled. I had a trio of people after me. One melee 2 ranged. I'd back up, while slowly popping defensive abilities/relics/heals and they came right along with me, the ranged taking a few steps, shooting, the melee (he was pretty undergeared I am guessing) kept after me. I kept backing away slowly.

 

Slowly...

 

Slowly...

 

I bet they thought "hey look at this back pedaling nooblet" and had a good laugh until another stealther from my team slid in and bombed the door.

 

I do the same quite often. As a tank backpedal is a literal taunt.

 

Also, I've backpedaled out of quite a few fire pits after a little grapple action

[Zepidel]

Strafing and backpedalling do the same thing. The only question you should be asking yourself is if you purposefully want to move at 50% speed. If there's no reason for you to be moving so slowly then you shouldn't be backpedalling. It's like questioning wether walking is better then the default run, unless you're a role-player and you want to move slowly it never is.

[WickedImage]

I like to think of myself as a decent player and i get ranged classes are bad at this moment but why oh why does 95% of people playing ranged and melee in some cases back pedal? I counted through 9 games until i met someone who didn't back pedal. It is obvious that a lot of people playing are new to mmos can bioware make a video on how to strafe or even do the running away jumping instant cast technique (Didn't know how to phrase it) I am going to sounds arrogant here but i think it would benefit the pvp community if the people posting on here and in pvp were better at the game as face tanking shouldn't determine if a class is op and shouldn't be the way every ranged class plays 95% of the time.

 

I back pedal all the time. I win all the time. Back pedaling has nothing to do with how good/bad someone is. I win 8-9 out of 10 1 v1 confrontations. Back pedaling is particularly useful in 1v2 or worse scenarios. It's called moving to where I can use the map to LoS people. Telling people "if you back pedal you are bad" is ignorant, at best. It's about as logical as telling them they are bad if they use their abilities during combat.....

Why do so many players mistake back pedaling for poor play? So ignorant.....

Edited June 5, 2012 by WickedImage

[Maximumbob_UK]

I dont back pedal often.. however, I do use it now and again. Mostly for getting into position to strafe behind a pillar to break LoS on casters whilst continuing to use instants. A second time is when i am dpsing and want to move the camera to cover an objective/door etc. - the way my keybinds and mouse keys are set up its easier to hold the 's' key and continue to dps and observe than mess around with the camera angle and disrupt my dps.

 

I suppose if i set up my keys slightly differently I could use the camera move option and strafe more.. but i dont think in these situations it puts you at a disadvantage

[Zepidel]

It's about as logical as telling them they are bad if they use their abilities during combat.....

.

 

That's not an appropriate analogy, it would be comparable if you said that it's as logical as telling them they are

bad if they use less effective abilities in a situation where considerably more effective abilities are available.

[WickedImage]

That's not an appropriate analogy, it would be comparable if you said that it's as logical as telling them they are

bad if they use less effective abilities in a situation where considerably more effective abilities are available.

no

/5c

[Astarica]

Walking backward takes the shortest time to move an enemy (assuming you're being pursued).

 

Let's say there's an objective and you hit someone 10m away from south. Then you strafe east for 10m and were followed. The guy is now 14m away from the objective.

 

If you just keep on walk backwards for 10m the pursuer is now 20m away from the objective.

 

6m may not sound like a lot, but it can be the difference of putting the pursuer out of the healing range of the healers hiding behind him.

 

Otherwise there's certainly no advantage to walk backwards, but there really isn't a strong penalty anyway. I'd rather not wear out my wrist unless it's an absolutely crucial battle.

[Zepidel]

no

/5c

 

Yes

 

because 95% of the time that's exactly what you're doing, you're using a less effective ability (backpedaling) in a situation where you have a more effective ability available to you (strafing+panning camera). Unless you really want to move at 50% speed there's no reason to backpedal, it offers no advantage over strafing.

 

It's like if I were to on my scrapper stealth in, position myself behind a sorc, then open with backblast. Why would I ever do that when I can use shoot first?

[lifewontwait]

It's probably more common in this game because there is a lot still wrong with the game.

 

Tab targeting is terrible, so you have to click on your targets, which is easier if you're backpedaling.

 

Also, the camera spins around to face your front as soon as you let off your mouse, so if you're running away from someone you can't see behind you and target (or at least I haven't found a way to get it to not rotate).

 

And if you're a scoundrel or operative, people shouldn't be showing their back or side to you.

[Zepidel]

Walking backward takes the shortest time to move an enemy (assuming you're being pursued).

 

Let's say there's an objective and you hit someone 10m away from south. Then you strafe east for 10m and were followed. The guy is now 14m away from the objective.

 

If you just keep on walk backwards for 10m the pursuer is now 20m away from the objective.

 

6m may not sound like a lot, but it can be the difference of putting the pursuer out of the healing range of the healers hiding behind him.

 

Otherwise there's certainly no advantage to walk backwards, but there really isn't a strong penalty anyway. I'd rather not wear out my wrist unless it's an absolutely crucial battle.

 

First of all if you're going to use numbers you're going to need to factor in that backpedaling is twice as slow as strafing. So in your example the difference would be only 1m not 6m.

 

Second of all that is not the strafing this thread is advocating, you can strafe directly backwards while still hitting an enemy in front of you. So in your situation where you backpedal 10m to the south of an objective you could have instead strafed 20m south of the objective in the same amount of time.

[Pistols]

I didn't read all 4 pages, but I do have that bad habit (and I do it often), I know there are better ways but haven't had a ton of MMO experience. I'm the one guy who does it the laughable way, but hey, I'd be willing to learn to not click and keyboard turn to better my gameplay...any chance there is a Youtube link or something that shows some basic movement binds and what not? I've always been a clicker, however I do have a handful of binds, but it's my movement habits that need work, and I will eventually get keybounding to all abilities. I'm not a pro player, but all I do is PvP so.

 

So yes, I want to get better, any help in this direction to some vids or sites be sweet.

 

Signed,

 

King of Bads. = (

[Zepidel]

Tab targeting is terrible, so you have to click on your targets, which is easier if you're backpedaling.

 

That is true, tab targeting is so horrendous in this game that it can sometimes be difficult to acquire your desired target while strafing.

 

And if you're a scoundrel or operative, people shouldn't be showing their back or side to you.

 

As a scoundrel myself I can say that backpedaling away from me does almost nothing to prevent me from getting off a positional. All I have to do is strafe after them while facing them and I can get off a backblast as soon as I'm next to them, which will be soon because I'm moving quite a bit faster then they are.

[Astarica]

First of all if you're going to use numbers you're going to need to factor in that backpedaling is twice as slow as strafing. So in your example the difference would be only 1m not 6m.

 

Second of all that is not the strafing this thread is advocating, you can strafe directly backwards while still hitting an enemy in front of you. So in your situation where you backpedal 10m to the south of an objective you could have instead strafed 20m south of the objective in the same amount of time.

 

If you're strafing south while facing perpendicular (i.e. facing east) to a pursuer all he has to do is walk west 1m and he'll now be behind you and that'd be worse than backpedaling because you can't hit someone behind you.

 

Realistically you'll be strafing toward south at an angle, and depending on what that angle is it might actually take you longer to move south than just walking backwards. Besides, the pursuer will only follow if he's sure he's faster than you (I assume you have a range advantage, or they wouldn't even follow you to begin iwth). If you immedaitely turn around and strafe away at maximum speed, the pursuer will just turn around too if he's not faster than you.

[UGLYMRJ]

Few things...

 

1. You can't say backpeddling should NEVER be used.... hardly ever yes, but never? With my marauder if I know I need just 1-2 feet to use my force charge, it's quicker to backpeddle a step or two than it is to strafe. There IS the rare situation where it does come in handy. It's rare, but it does. I know you are talking more ranged classes and in that case... NO. I also have a ranged DPS and I can't think of any situations where backpeddling is valuable. Just wanted to make a point for anyone who says "NEVER".

 

2. The strafe keys are by default in an awkward place... Personally I prefer to replace A & D with my strafe keys and use the mouse to turn. Pretty sure this is common since I had a more experienced MMO player show me this one a long time ago but thought I'd mention it in case it hasn't been yet. Didn't read the entire thread.

 

3. It's all perspective and what works for some won't work for others... there really is not right or wrong. Just what is right or wrong for YOU.

Edited June 5, 2012 by UGLYMRJ

[Swidgin]

LOL, the fact that people can't understand this is BLOWING MY MIND.

 

I have a SLOW that cost Force that I use in PVP. I would like to have this SLOW on ALL my targets. This is of course not possible but if I had my way my 50% slow would be on EVERYONE.

 

You are putting it on yourself then saying that is a normal thing to do.

 

Um...

 

Like I said before Play however you want to it's your 15 bucks...

 

Just know that END-Game PVPers will ROFL @ you.

 

If you don't mind that then I say POWER to you.

Edited June 5, 2012 by Swidgin

[AmorphousCro]

My personal best backpeddling kills is 4. Lined up 4 melee and used concussion charge to knock the bunch into a fire pit.

 

I've lined up 5 for an acid swim, but only 2 died..... derp.

[Diplomaticus]

Few things...

 

1. You can't say backpeddling should NEVER be used.... hardly ever yes, but never? With my marauder if I know I need just 1-2 feet to use my force charge, it's quicker to backpeddle a step or two than it is to strafe. There IS the rare situation where it does come in handy. It's rare, but it does. I know you are talking more ranged classes and in that case... NO. I also have a ranged DPS and I can't think of any situations where backpeddling is valuable. Just wanted to make a point for anyone who says "NEVER".

 

2. The strafe keys are by default in an awkward place... Personally I prefer to replace A & D with my strafe keys and use the mouse to turn. Pretty sure this is common since I had a more experienced MMO player show me this one a long time ago but thought I'd mention it in case it hasn't been yet. Didn't read the entire thread.

 

3. It's all perspective and what works for some won't work for others... there really is not right or wrong. Just what is right or wrong for YOU.

 

I'm not trying to flame you. But I don't think any of these points are valid. Here's why:

 

1. It's not quicker to backpeddle. Turning/Strafing is still faster. Furthermore, what do you do if your target happens to move closer to you (you can never know)? Since you're slower, you'll be further from your Leap than you were before.

 

2. It being harder doesn't mean it isn't more efficient.

 

3. This is true, to a point, but it's more of a philosophical argument. This is the argument "As long as you have fun playing the game, it is fine", just put differently. Which is fine, I can't argue with that. But it changes the rules of the discussion, which started out as "what is mathematically the BEST?" I still haven't heard any argument proving Backpeddling is in any way, at any possible moment, better than moving at full speed. The closest you get is a sorc that needs to cast Death Field while running away, but with enough skill this is still possible while kiting by jumpturning.

 

Not seeking to flame or anything, I just hope my points come over in the constructive way they were meant.

[Vodrin]

there is a post somewhere on these forums that details why backpedaling is not always a bad thing. perhaps the OP shouldn't immediately dismiss strategies that he feels aren't worthy of his action.

 

The problem with this statement is that strafing is always better than backpedaling. As a matter of fact I do not even have a backpedaling key bound in my setup. You can strafe almost directly away from your target, move faster than you were backpedaling, and still hit your target. Considering those facts why would you ever backpedal?

[Vodrin]

I didn't read all 4 pages, but I do have that bad habit (and I do it often), I know there are better ways but haven't had a ton of MMO experience. I'm the one guy who does it the laughable way, but hey, I'd be willing to learn to not click and keyboard turn to better my gameplay...any chance there is a Youtube link or something that shows some basic movement binds and what not? I've always been a clicker, however I do have a handful of binds, but it's my movement habits that need work, and I will eventually get keybounding to all abilities. I'm not a pro player, but all I do is PvP so.

 

So yes, I want to get better, any help in this direction to some vids or sites be sweet.

 

Signed,

 

King of Bads. = (

 

Checkout taugrim.com, he has a guide for basic keymapping setups to learn to keybind and mouse turn for those that are not used to it. It's a good place to start and you can customize from there.

[Eldrimner]

With B4 it's just easier on the knees.

[Ridickilis]

I didn't read all 4 pages, but I do have that bad habit (and I do it often), I know there are better ways but haven't had a ton of MMO experience. I'm the one guy who does it the laughable way, but hey, I'd be willing to learn to not click and keyboard turn to better my gameplay...any chance there is a Youtube link or something that shows some basic movement binds and what not? I've always been a clicker, however I do have a handful of binds, but it's my movement habits that need work, and I will eventually get keybounding to all abilities. I'm not a pro player, but all I do is PvP so.

 

So yes, I want to get better, any help in this direction to some vids or sites be sweet.

 

Signed,

 

King of Bads. = (

 

While I don't know of an specific vid on it the first thing you should do is start running around just using the mouse by depressing both the left and the right click buttons at the same time. All of your movement comes from a flick of the wrist. What I suggested to someone else having trouble with this is to simply run laps around the fleet, zigzag in and out of obstacles and other players alike. It shouldn't take more than 20 min or so to get a decent feeling of this. Once you do that then go find some trash pve mobs, where any mistakes are easily forgiven, and do the same thing. Run through the mob, get the feel of tab targeting and facing while moving, try and hit each enemy once before you hit the same d00d again.

 

After that then you are going to want to spend some time mapping out your keybinds. The idea behind it is this frees up your left hand completely from any movement aside from the odd strafe here and there. I use shift q + e for strafing and removed a, s and d altogether for movement purposes. That free's up good real estate for skills and abilities that are easily accessible with the left hand. If you are a class with some type of backstab (op or assassin) you will notice how much easier it is to get these abilities off just by not moving and turning with the keyboard.

[Astarica]

What's with these exaggerated claims about how wide the frontal arc is? Let's say a guy is directly north of you and you're trying to move him to south. According to people, you'd run in facing west, hit the guy directly north of you (even though your arc isn't that wide). And if that guy mere takes a step to the east and get behind you, then you're supposed to instantly make a 180 degree turn to turn east instead while continuing strafing south.

 

This would mean I ought to see some good players that strafe one direction while their character is furiously turning around in a circle. But there's no one I know of that does this, good or bad. If you need to move someone in one direction, you walk backwards because it's the only thing works. If you face perpendicular to the target you usually won't even have the frontal arc on him and he's only one step away from being completely behind you.

 

Now it's actually not very common to need to move a particular enemy in a certain direction so you use strafe in any situation where there's no advantage to be gained by moving the battlefield.

 

By the way, in the 'establish 10m charge distance' scenario, if you strafe the target you're trying to leap to can strafe in the exact direction and it's easier to follow strafe on strafe (same speed), then forward versus backward (the guy moving forward is way faster and would have to stop moving at some point). In reality you need to both strafe and backpedal to re-establish the charge distance against someone who is watching you closely. Just doing one almost never works, and in particular just doing strafe never works because you can always follow strafe with strafe.