A new level cap just might be the gamebreaker for me

[Kourage]

All his raid gear is about to become inferior to green questing rewards and random mob drops! Not any time soon mind you, but eventually! Show some heart people! Edited June 5, 2012 by Kourage

[Mynden]

 

EDIT: just found out it's only a 4 level cap raise and the update isn't due for about 2 months. Still bad, but not as much possibility for error as i thought. Good luck, Bioware.

 

Where did you see this

[KennethHoover]

I've been playing MMOs for about 13 years now. It's the same conundrum, and developers can't really win. On one hand, the folks at the endgame want new content and goals. On the other hand when they get them, they complain that all that time spent getting what they had was wasted. I've been through it myself.

 

The secret to enjoying a MMO is simple.

 

If it's not fun, don't do it.

 

I'm not being snarky or condescending either. It's a lesson I learned by wasting hour after hour in digital worlds.

 

If you the only thing you enjoyed about grinding was the gear you got from it, then stop grinding.

 

If you're sick of the same PvP, stop PvPing.

 

No piece of gear or title will ever be enough to make up for a journey you didn't enjoy to get it. The journey IS the point, not the reward at the end of it.

 

Very well said and cogent. Wish more people would view all games with this perspective.

[Captain_Zone]

Raised level cap = More story content = New gear. This is the way of things. The way of MMOs.

 

Now, when these things hit the servers, you will have three choices.

 

1. Continue whining that your gear grind is useless.

 

2. Quit the game, whine about it on the forums until your sub is up, then leave and whine in a different MMO later on when they do the same thing.

 

3. Suck it up, drive on, and enjoy the new story content along with the new gear.

 

I'll go with Option 3. Thank you.

[Drkstrider]

I've been playing MMOs for about 13 years now. It's the same conundrum, and developers can't really win. On one hand, the folks at the endgame want new content and goals. On the other hand when they get them, they complain that all that time spent getting what they had was wasted. I've been through it myself.

 

The secret to enjoying a MMO is simple.

 

If it's not fun, don't do it.

 

I'm not being snarky or condescending either. It's a lesson I learned by wasting hour after hour in digital worlds.

 

If you the only thing you enjoyed about grinding was the gear you got from it, then stop grinding.

 

If you're sick of the same PvP, stop PvPing.

 

No piece of gear or title will ever be enough to make up for a journey you didn't enjoy to get it. The journey IS the point, not the reward at the end of it.

 

diito ^ this

[Goretzu]

I've been playing MMOs for about 13 years now. It's the same conundrum, and developers can't really win..

 

 

The MMORPG standard of a level increase approximately every 18 months is a vastly different beast to the level increase after 7 months being proposed for SWTOR.

 

A gear reset every 7 months is an insane endless grind.

[Mynden]

The MMORPG standard of a level increase approximately every 18 months is a vastly different beast to the level increase after 7 months being proposed for SWTOR.

 

A gear reset every 7 months is an insane endless grind.

 

So where is the patch? Games been out 7 months and my gear isnt reset and the level cap isnt raised. The exaggerations regarding this issue are already getting annoying

[Goretzu]

So where is the patch? Games been out 7 months and my gear isnt reset and the level cap isnt raised. The exaggerations regarding this issue are already getting annoying

 

It's been out not quite 7 months yet.

 

It depends when the level increase comes out, next month or two is far too soon....... even December 2012 is exceedingly quick for a subscription based MMORPG (even for a F2P/P2W MMORPG).

 

I highly doubt that it's been announced now and not coming out till summer 2013 which would take it to the standard 18 months per level increase.

 

So where is the exageration?

[NasherUK]

I agree with the OP. I don't see why they are upping the level cap so early, a lot of people haven't finished all of the end-game level 50 content yet. Most haven't leveled more than a couple of alts either. I don't see why they can't just add more content while keeping the cap the same, that way we end up with tonnes of end-game content (which is good).

 

Upping the cap means all the current content becomes obsolete and we have a single Ops raid and a handful of FPs at the new cap, so even less content than before. All because some people wanted a couple of days more worth of level grinding :/

Edited June 5, 2012 by NasherUK

[vincent-]

Contradicted yourself a tad there.. You don't like the level cap idea, explain why it's bad then in the same post you write:

 

" but in a game already lacking player activity this just doesn't feel like a good idea"

 

You do realise that out of the steaming pile of updates, the one thing to arise from the stench that might actually bring players back is a new level to get to?

 

You must be out of your bloody mind! The thing I'm sick of is level caps being raised. Only problems that brings is new abilities and skills that makes it harder to even balance what we got going until that is fixed first. Than you have developers TIME spend on fixing this balance were other areas of the game needs more importance and content.

 

This game lacks so much just too see this BS come around the corner to keep a single carrot dangling, that seems like a method for these kinds of MMO games. Yet my motivation in past games was what my armor looked like. getting decor for my building, looting new ship parts to train the rookies, or hell helping others get cool vehicles that can only be crafted in certain high dangerous areas.

[Monoth]

I've been playing this game without getting involved in the doomsaying or complaints for a long time now even while I watche activity on the server slowly melt away. But I got to say the anouncment of a raised level cap absolutely stunned me. Unless I'm missing something here it seems the worst possible move. Right now the servers suffer from players waiting till things get fixed. In my experience the anouncement of raised level caps usualy slowed down current raiding to a crawl since everyone knows their equip will be outdated within two levels anyway.

In my case my current motivation was working on all my crafting profesions, reverse engineering so I could outfit all my companions with purple gear (this is already inferior to just raiding and using leftover Columni but I just PVP..) but what's the point now? It's a ton of work to reverse engineer just the right purples and now I know they won't be good for long. I'm not even sure it is worth grinding PVP for War Hero gear now as I asume there will be new sets at the new cap.

I will say that I'm looking forward to more story but essentialy these news tell me "sit back, wait for the expansion to hit."

This is always the case with such anouncement but in a game already lacking player activity this just doesn't feel like a good idea.

 

It's 5 levels, hardly game breaking..... not to mention there is not a major stat difference between sets of gear anymore.... I'm not even sure Black Hole gear is any better then Rakata, seems to take away your main stat and increase your endurance, so more life but less damage dealing..... Only Campaign gear gives you a noticeable advantage over Rakata and even that is a really small advantage....

 

As for Crafting, well yeah thats a joke always has been.... Theme Park games are setup for Loot Drops / Rewards, crafting is a novelty at best... Only time Crafting is a serious component of a MMO is when it's a sandbox design.

[Monoth]

You must be out of your bloody mind! The thing I'm sick of is level caps being raised. Only problems that brings is new abilities and skills that makes it harder to even balance what we got going until that is fixed first. Than you have developers TIME spend on fixing this balance were other areas of the game needs more importance and content.

 

This game lacks so much just too see this BS come around the corner to keep a single carrot dangling, that seems like a method for these kinds of MMO games. Yet my motivation in past games was what my armor looked like. getting decor for my building, looting new ship parts to train the rookies, or hell helping others get cool vehicles that can only be crafted in certain high dangerous areas.

 

SWTOR is NEVER going to be SWG 2.0 or any version of a sandbox game.... Bioware has set it's course and there going that direction no matter what.... This is a 100% theme park MMO and thats not going to change, to think otherwise is only going to keep setting yourself up for disappointment. As much as I would of have loved a SWG 2.0 i've accepted the reality of what SWTOR is and that is a Theme Park MMO.

[asbalana]

I see an increase in cap as an oppertunity for BW to take a close look at the game and address some issues with design and content.

 

They could build new worlds that are open and have life and are non linear. Advannced cap worlds could be built to encourge exploring. They can build varied multiple quest lines. They could move away from the concept that everything has to be voice acted (like the dailies in Corellia which come from a mission terminal). They can extend crafting so that it actually has some meaning at cap and bring crafters back into the game and so stimulate the economy. They could buid interesting and varied dailies at cap and provide content for the non raiders. They can take a look at gear and it's stat and visual design.

 

I do see the issues that face players with an increase in cap in that the old rewards become meaningless other than as the entry to the new content, but an increase in cap can provide the oppertunity (if done correctly in the light of the feedback that has been recieved) to bring things to where they should have been. An increase in cap will draw in many old and unsubbed players (especially if it is well done) and breath life back into the game.

[Monoth]

It's been out not quite 7 months yet.

 

It depends when the level increase comes out, next month or two is far too soon....... even December 2012 is exceedingly quick for a subscription based MMORPG (even for a F2P/P2W MMORPG).

 

I highly doubt that it's been announced now and not coming out till summer 2013 which would take it to the standard 18 months per level increase.

 

So where is the exageration?

 

Where do you come up with this standrad of 18 months? Every MMO i've played has raised the level cap about every 12 months... and usally its 10 levels and not the 5 that Bioware is going to do.... Not to mention that its easier then hell to level in this game, I could understand if this was a grind heavy game and 5 more levels was going to take months, but people will hit that 5 level increase in ONE day.... The average person will only probably take 3-4 days max to hit it...

Edited June 5, 2012 by Monoth

[JaxonLuxor]

No. Just more levels. Which is what I wrote. Please spare me the automated fanbot defense.

I'm perfectly fine with more skills and items. Adding more levels though means everything you can do in the endgame now is essentialy a waste of time (as much as that can be said in a game anyway). The inner collector in me doesn't get hooked by the though of working hard to finish sets that I know will not be usable anymore within a short span of time. The new stuff might be absolutely awesome but it does kill my motviation to play in the endgame right now. And I think that will be true for a lot of raiders. This won't help with the already low activity at all.

 

I don't think that this is an automated response. I seriously doubt that they would raise level caps without a path to get there. The higher caps means additional skills, more content and more opportunity to reengage in the game. All are good things.

[JeramieCrowe]

The MMORPG standard of a level increase approximately every 18 months is a vastly different beast to the level increase after 7 months being proposed for SWTOR.

 

A gear reset every 7 months is an insane endless grind.

 

Actually, this is what's going to be by December. One year. Not 7 months. And it's only a 5 level raise.

Edited June 5, 2012 by JeramieCrowe

[Shadyshaw]

Really upset about the level cap increase, I think I am done playing this game forever. I cant sit around while they focus on things I feel are less important.....There are so many things wrong with this "Star Wars" game it is mind blowing.... Please get on the right path before its too late. You may have fanboys defending you now, but that will not last long. I liked you at one point Bioware, then you removed the Korrealis Speeders..... After that you lost my support forever.... I see the future of this game... and its not bright...

[vincent-]

SWTOR is NEVER going to be SWG 2.0 or any version of a sandbox game.... Bioware has set it's course and there going that direction no matter what.... This is a 100% theme park MMO and thats not going to change, to think otherwise is only going to keep setting yourself up for disappointment. As much as I would of have loved a SWG 2.0 i've accepted the reality of what SWTOR is and that is a Theme Park MMO.

 

OH trust me nothing has made me even doubt not re-subbing. I will actually have to tell my friends this is a true bust. I also know this isn't a sandbox but pazak small arenas world pvp that's not hard to implement. The things that can keep people into this game or even showing promise to how a game can be done is possible but if it's going to repeat the same crap over and over again.

 

I will spend my money else were. I told them in beta what would have been better it might have pushed this game back some but at least you wouldn't have seen so many dead servers.

[Muskaan]

I think the reason they are upping the level cap is--

 

They are adding a new planet with new character story progress. They actually want people to do those quests. Without a motivation of increasing your level cap, people will just ignore the planet altogether since the rewards will be lukewarm compared to what they can get or already have from Ops gear.

 

However, it does add to their end game dilemma. By increasing the level cap, they are also effectively voiding their current end game content. And with a game with such limited end game content in the first place, this will be a major let down for a lot of people.

 

So, the design question is--

 

How do you interest people to play the new class storyline in Makeb without voiding the current end game content?

[Captain_Tenneal]

[quote=asbalana;4544482

 

I. An increase in cap will draw in many old and unsubbed players (especially if it is well done) and breath life back into the game.

 

7 months in and people are worried about sub numbers not a good thing. weather you think its good or bad to raise cap, it does kinda feel like a stop gap measure rather than a planned and calculated move. Anyway you look at swtor the omens aren't looking too favorable. I think this is another one of those decisions that in the end will break even, it will run off as many as it brings in.

Edited June 5, 2012 by Captain_Tenneal

[netskink]

I am in total agreement with the original poster. A new level cap will probably turn me off to this game.

 

As it is now, I can't get into my guild into any hm's past FE cause we dont have enough people who play. My pal and I have worked with multiple dps off and on as they get lvl 50 and then quit. I try to pull in other lvl 50s and they are poorly geared or just don't know anything.

 

D3 killed our guild/server. So with no one online, I do my best to solo play doing dailies hoping for the upcoming 40s to help us at 50. I hope to epic gear my toon with daily commendation gear since its be the best I can do.

 

New levels with just kill the existing content and no one will ever want to do them. My lvl 49 epics I crafted will become worthless. All the legacy stuff I have unlocked is really only good for solo play. rocket boots help me to get my dailes done nothing else.

[banecolton]

ANd you needed your very own special thread to tell us your history of issues with mmo's??

 

And you needed to add your very own special comment to it to tell us how you completely missed the point of what the OP was saying while trying to look witty on the internets?

 

[rymah]

My thoughts exactly.

 

How can adding more levels and content be a game breaker?

 

I am guessing the OP also quites other MMO's when they launch an expansion because it adds more levels and content.

 

Gotta agree here, the OP doesn't get the dynamic between more content and higher levels, both gear grind and power scaling are nothing new in an mmo, especially one that puts new content every couple months to add to the game. You do the quest, to kill the mob, to get the gear, to do the next quest, to kill the next mob, to get the better gear...and so on. If more levels and content are game breakers, games like everquest and world of warcraft are beyond broken.

[Celebrus]

Actually, this is what's going to be by December. One year. Not 7 months. And it's only a 5 level raise.

 

They've done nothing but follow the WoW model of MMO.

 

If anything, this move pretty much solidifies this game's status as "WoW in space".

 

Not really a joke anymore, it's fairly accurate now.

 

It's funny that people view this as "adding more levels and thus more content" when in reality it means the effective obsoletion of ALL current end game content, or the recycling of ALL current end game content. It's not going to add much content and it's going to effectively remove much more than it adds, or it's just going to be a cheap recycle, either way it's pretty pathetic.

Edited June 5, 2012 by Celebrus

[arestesian]

I have to heavily disagree with ... actualy I don't disagree with your points at all. I do disagree that new levels are needed for any of that though. First of all I would love more story, even fi I do not gain any levels from it. If they need a sense of progresion, equipment, new companions etc. could do the job. Last but not least you do not need to increase a level cap to introduce new skills. But that is a completly different topic. I'd recommend Taugrim's excellent explanation of vertical vs. horizontal scaling on how classic leveling could be replaced.

 

I looked at it, but from what I got out of it it's the same grind with different wallpaper.

Here’s how would progression could work in a horizontal scaling system:

 

Take achievements to the next level, so that the game tracks performance at a granular level…

- What’s my fastest time-to-clear for this instance (because this instance is never outdated)?

- What’s my fastest TTC for this boss fight?

- What’s my fastest Huttball match win ever?…and then have these stats feed into Leaderboards…- Which players / guilds have the fastest TTC for this boss for this week / the past x weeks / all-time?

- Who had the highest DPS on this boss fight this week / month / all-time?

 

That encourages hellish amounts of grinding and min/maxing. From what I got out of the link it seems like they want to abolish levels (which is fine) but keep all the grindy detriments of leveling (not so good)