DarthNuke Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Any idea how soon we will learn about the so needed balancing of tank assassins? Not soon enough. I play a Shadow tank. I rolled the class specifically to run the Infiltration tree. Found out quickly that tree in not functional and had to run Tank spec out of necessity. But looks like KC may take a nerf and Infiltration will get a buff. It's gonna be awesome. 6K crits flying around like hotcakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilikaa Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 How anyone can even attempt to argue that Tank Assassin is not op is beyond me. Shadow/Assassin tanks are not OP. No nerfs are kriffing needed! If the Shadow is wearing DPS armor then they will do higher damage but that is no reason to nerf the class. All BW has to do is limit tanks to tank gear, i.e. the BM/WH Survivors gear. that's what I use on my Shadow tank. Should I be nerfed because of people using DPS gear on a tank spec? HELL NO! Leave Shadow/Assassin alone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missandei Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) Shields can only have a chance (based on shield chance) to negate melee/ranged attacks (white damage) that don't happen to crit (or so I've been told and honestly haven't seen any evidence to dispute this) and since most people tend to have ~ 37-42% crit rating, even that white damage can easily go unmitigated by shields (particularly if someone pops a crit relic and/or adrenal to further boost that crit chance). Considering most tank gear has shield/absorbtion modifiers, and/or defense chance modifiers (which only tend to be effective if you have a high base defense chance prior to modifiers from gear in combination either with an ability to debuff a target accuracy or a method to significantly increase your defense chances via talented abilities and/or defensive cooldown to further modify it - but this will also only apply to melee/ranged attacks). Furthermore, tank specs in tank gear tend to dish out terrible damage. You tend to lose very little survivability as a tank if you switch to DPS gear ("best defense is a good offense" rings true since you take no damage from enemies that are dead; thus, killing people more quickly tends to have a much more significant impact). One day, I'll get around to stacking some additional defense chance on my assassin once I respec him back to tankassin (which has a 16% defense chance before modifiers) to check whether or not its increased survivability will outweigh the loss to damage output, but that'll be a good ways down the road for me. I agree with what you're saying. But correct me if I'm wrong, it looks like you're looking at this in a 1v1 context. In which case, you're probably right. But the point of a tank is to go in with your team and mitigate damage being done to them using guard, taunts, etc. Anyone rolling a tank with the intention to spec as a tank should not expect to do a lot of damage because frankly, that' not their role on a team. Leave that to the DPS. Think of how imbalanced tanks would be if they could dish out close to or as much damage as a DPS. That would be scary. The problem with nerf cryiers is their twisted logic. First, they cry because they cant faceroll tanksin like any other class.. So the nerfcry begins - «the tanksins are OP, i cant beat them in 1v1!!!» Second, they propose to make a some PvP-dummy out of TankSins that WILL NOT BE ABLE KILL ANYONE and saying that «this is the destined role of Tanks!» So, nerfcriers WANT to BEAT 1v1 ANY CLASS (sure this is their role in PvP) and the same time DENYING the possibility for Tanksins to kill ANYONE in PvP.. Thats really ridiculous.. Either you accept YOUR ROLE and then demand the tanks behave accordingly, or DONT CRY for to make all other classes nerfed BECAUSE YOU WANT TO BE OP. As for now, TankSins cant beat Healers. Tanksins are not very good against ranged classes.. (at least against players that playing their ranged classes as RANGED classes and not going into melee to be facerolled) If we are to follow the logic of nerfcriers, TankSins have to be buffed to be able to kill Healers... The WZs is a abuot TEAMPLAY.. As tanksins im VERY RARELY going to hunt the enemy Healer.. I know my limitations.. I know my weaknesses.. I have basic knowledge of the other classes abilities.. Thats making me a little above average player in PvP.. Not the fact im playing Tanksins.. TBH i think Jugs Tanks are more intresting and usefull class to play in PvP.. Pity that my Alt(Jugg Tank) is not as well geared as my main (ShadowTank) So why the classes that cant beat Tanksins engaging them? Just to go to the forums after and cry for ners due to the lack of skill??! NERFING THE OTHER CLASSES WILL NOT MAKE A SKILLED PLAYER OUT OF YOU! Edited June 6, 2012 by Missandei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missandei Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) Good tankins with optimized gear can crit 4k+ and top wz damage charts while guarding the healer... LOL.. This is not good tanksins.. This is just team they play against wear green gear with no expertise.. IN REAL WORLD (where teams are geared equally) the tanksins will do no more than 3.5K crits.. And this crits are from SpinningStrike(Assasinate) that is useable ONLY on targets below 30% health.. Edited June 6, 2012 by Missandei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruloss Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Lets see: Shield like a Sage but are a tank so better. Cast DoTs like a Sage and Lighting also. Stealth like a Opertive but has a speed burst of a Sage also in Stealth. Self heals that crit for pretty good numbers like a Sent or Maur. Stuns and mez that other tanks lack. And DPS very close to a full DPS spec but with better self heals. Yea sure not OP in any way. I wanna smoke what ever you have been smoking. shields like a Sage?? dots like sage? how can even say dps even close to mara/sent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WobblyBits_X Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Some mod is playing asassin, he removed my post where i suggested that being able to activate force shroud and 50% deflection at the same time is overpowered. erm... whats Guarded By The Force...? force shroud is up to 5 secs of tech/force immunity. deflection only affects ranged/melee attacks (most of mara and jugg, half of ssin dps and some of every other dps class). mara and jugg can both leap to target anywhere in los within 30m. ssin is restricted to the ground and its barriers. as for the self heals, battle readiness heals 10% max health (affected by pvp combat debuff and expertise buff), telekenetic throw heals 3% per tick up to 4 ticks, requires 3 stacks from abilities on 6 and 8 sec CD and can be interrupted by a stun or knock. these heals do NOT crit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaroneus Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Well nerf criers, you got your wish: http://www.swtor.com/blog/class-changes-and-balance-game-update-1.3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mournblood Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Well nerf criers, you got your wish: http://www.swtor.com/blog/class-changes-and-balance-game-update-1.3 And there was much rejoicing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTomorrow Posted June 6, 2012 Author Share Posted June 6, 2012 Congratulations everyone! We did it! I was tired of being BS by Tank assassins how they are balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kawiki Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 As i understand, it first rolls for crit, then if its not crit, the tank rolls for shield.. Congrats. You don't even know how the game mechanics work but yet you cry for nerfs... Classic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTomorrow Posted June 6, 2012 Author Share Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) Congrats. You don't even know how the game mechanics work but yet you cry for nerfs... Classic. Crit supersedes the shield. If it crits, the shield roll has absolutely no importance as the attack will not be shielded. So technically, crit is rolled first. Edited June 6, 2012 by NoTomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveandDieinLA Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Good call NoTomorrow, you hit the nail on the head with our original post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neoforcer Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) Any idea how soon we will learn about the so needed balancing of tank assassins? good sin/shadow will still kill you as it not the class that's op it's the skill of the player we good players will adapt and kill you feeding off your tears you can not nerf skill. Edited June 6, 2012 by Neoforcer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kawiki Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Crit supersedes the shield. If it crits, the shield roll has absolutely no importance as the attack will not be shielded. So technically, crit is rolled first. ummm... no. Crit and shield are on the same roll. 1 roll the only thing that changes is the chance of each. Seriously dude, learn the game before crying for nerfs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kawiki Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 good sin/shadow will still kill you as it not the class that's op it the skill of the player we good players will adapt and kill you feed offf your tears you can not nerf skill. Exactly. And Frankly this will have very little effect on PvP. PvE is where shadows got bent over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahhmyface Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) I am so confused by the patch notes. Ignoring whiny forum bads, tankasins were a solid class, with lots of utility. Nothing about them needed a nerf. Edited June 6, 2012 by Ahhmyface Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Exactly. And Frankly this will have very little effect on PvP. PvE is where shadows got bent over. LoL well put. I really feel for PvE tanks I am glad I gave that up a long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bpotux Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 First Sorcs, now Sins, didn't you learn on your mistakes BW? You don't nerf all three things at the same time leave the class broken in PVE or PVP for months to come until you realize you overdid it. This will hurt PVE much much more then it will "balance" PVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WobblyBits_X Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) shadow tank armour being reduced 14%. already had lower armour rating in equivalent gear to guardian and vanguard. the reasoning behind this change is invalid. the only issue with tank classes was threat generation for guardian. i managed to hold aggro against a campaign geared sentinel in my columi shadow tank set without guarding him just a couple days ago. in pvp i havnt noticed any imbalance between tank classes, there is even a particular vanguard i cant stand against. shadow was not an issue, it did what a tank is meant to do in pvp; lower group damage, slow targets and hold its own against 2 or 3 dps for a time. not to mention the nerf to telekinetic throw (which could be interrupted with a knock or stun). what really needs a nerf is the stun capability of operative/scoundrel and the unusual survivability of sentinel/marauder. an operative shouldnt be able to take a tank down on its own just because it can stunlock for 30 seconds. and a pure dps class shouldnt be able to tank 8 people for 20 seconds while jumping around as carrier in huttball. Edited June 7, 2012 by WobblyBits_X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arunav Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Lets see: Shield like a Sage but are a tank so better. Cast DoTs like a Sage and Lighting also. Stealth like a Opertive but has a speed burst of a Sage also in Stealth. Self heals that crit for pretty good numbers like a Sent or Maur. Stuns and mez that other tanks lack. And DPS very close to a full DPS spec but with better self heals. Yea sure not OP in any way. Have you considered that most of these skills are in place for PVE, the stated focus by BW of this game? All of you people whining about Shadows/Assassins in PVP has now rendered the classes essentially useless for tanking in high-end Ops with the changes put in place for 1.3. Though, I should note, it's actually BW responding to said whining. Kind of like they did with adding all of those necessary servers 6 months ago. That worked out well, right folks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthiel Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 ummm... no. Crit and shield are on the same roll. 1 roll the only thing that changes is the chance of each. Seriously dude, learn the game before crying for nerfs. they may be on the same role but if you crit the shield cannot happen crit bypasses shields. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WobblyBits_X Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) Stuns and mez that other tanks lack. Yea sure not OP in any way. how about sentinels lacking a knockback where other dps have them? oh noes, my scoundrel is not ranged dps. i want Inspriation on my mercenary. mngmmmngngn L2P your damn classes people! Edited June 7, 2012 by WobblyBits_X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Acherus Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 how about sentinels lacking a knockback where other dps have them? oh noes, my scoundrel is not ranged dps. i want Inspriation on my mercenary. mngmmmngngn L2P your damn classes people! Well, I'm never touching my shadow and sin ever again after this patch hits. Why play deception when an op does what you do better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoKiei Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 After some thought reducing damage output would have been a better change but regardless it will still balance tanksins more. Also the change to relics is an added nerf to tanksins because their 5s of tech immunity becomes less significant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WobblyBits_X Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) Well, I'm never touching my shadow and sin ever again after this patch hits. Why play deception when an op does what you do better? i ditched deception/infiltration back in feb... fell in love with tank spec shadow, now theyre destroying it. why would u want the tank with highest threat gen to also have the worst survivability? might as well tank with a gunslinger using saboteur. After some thought reducing damage output would have been a better change but regardless it will still balance tanksins more. Also the change to relics is an added nerf to tanksins because their 5s of tech immunity becomes less significant. that doesnt really affect shadows specifically, and there will be replacement relics with passive effects instead. i think the -5% damage bonus on combat tech shouldve been increased a little instead of nerfing the survivability. maybe 8% or 10%? surely that wouldve made all the whiners happy... Edited June 7, 2012 by WobblyBits_X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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