rpdowning Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 Where'd my post go comparing SWG to TOR? W T H forum mods? What's up with the sneaky post deletion? Throw it up again I want to read your post. This is a really lazy Sunday for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Htoob Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 It was quite hilarious to see Second Life top every MMO listed on the chart. I truly love how during SWG's final days not even 1000 people stuck around to see it end. A good example of the success of games that make you think is EVE online. Currently the game is based on a virtual economy and choices may have severe consequences. Currently it is sitting around 350k subs a little over the number of subs SWG had at its peak which is 300k. WoW is so easy a caveman can do it and is sitting at 10 million subscribers. Which format do you think a publisher will want to do? I love how people always pull the "WoW has 10 mil subs" example out of their arse without realizing the vast majority of those subs come from the asian market. North American and EU subs are not even 2 mil. WoW would be nothing if not for the huge asian market. A themepark mmo primarily aimed at NA and EU audiences is not going to get a huge amount of subs, and always ends up failing withing months of launch because people are tired of that mmo model/style. Just look at rift, AoC, aion, etc etc...and swtor is no exception. And don't expect the asian market to prop up this piss poor excuse of an mmo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalkingDinosaur Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 (edited) I love how people always pull the "WoW has 10 mil subs" example out of their arse without realizing the vast majority of those subs come from the asian market. North American and EU subs are not even 2 mil. WoW would be nothing if not for the huge asian market. A themepark mmo primarily aimed at NA and EU audiences is not going to get a huge amount of subs, and always ends up failing withing months of launch because people are tired of that mmo model/style. Just look at rift, AoC, aion, etc etc...and swtor is no exception. And don't expect the asian market to prop up this piss poor excuse of an mmo. 10 mil or 2 mil. It doesn't matter as it is still 6x times larger than SWG at peak. Which makes my point. QQ for SWG all you want, but no publisher will ever pick up SWG. SWGemu is all you got. Edited June 3, 2012 by TalkingDinosaur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluerodian Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 (edited) 10 mil or 2 mil. It doesn't matter as it is still 6x times larger than SWG at peak. Which makes my point. Your point is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. SWG still had more worthwhile content to do than TOR does and I would still rather be playing it. That's ultimately what it boils down to for the players that have played both. Some preferred the Pre-CU, some preferred the NGE, some preferred TOR. What the industry also needs to keep in mind is that when you take a game away from a segment of the population, they'll just happily take it right back and remove it from your control and deny you a potential profit stream.. Then again, people like that are well in to the minority considering the capitalist/consumerist mindset of the industry's players these days. Edited June 3, 2012 by Bluerodian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syylara Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 (edited) I love how people always pull the "WoW has 10 mil subs" example out of their arse without realizing the vast majority of those subs come from the asian market. North American and EU subs are not even 2 mil. WoW would be nothing if not for the huge asian market. A themepark mmo primarily aimed at NA and EU audiences is not going to get a huge amount of subs, and always ends up failing withing months of launch because people are tired of that mmo model/style. Just look at rift, AoC, aion, etc etc...and swtor is no exception. And don't expect the asian market to prop up this piss poor excuse of an mmo. Wrong. When WoW hit 10 million, the splits were 2 million EU, 2.5 million NA and 5.5 million in Asia. So that's 4.5 million, not 2 million. 55% is not a "vast" majority. So don't accuse others of misrepresenting stats if you're going to do so yourself. Edited June 3, 2012 by Syylara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomasgallant Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 Your point is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. SWG still had more worthwhile content to do than TOR does and I would still rather be playing it. That's ultimately what it boils down to for the players that have played both. Some preferred the Pre-CU, some preferred the NGE, some preferred TOR. What the industry also needs to keep in mind is that when you take a game away from a segment of the population, they'll just happily take it right back and remove it from your control and deny you a potential profit stream.. swg emu sucks.. if you are honestly so convinced it doesnt suck why are you still here.. the game was crap. the only thing it was good for was crafting . the rest was subpar at best. including the housing.. the implementation of the housing sucked. the building of them was good. the crafting, but the rest..horrible... but this game will never be swg..it will eventually get much better than swg ever was.. if you cant wait or pine for swg go emu it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluerodian Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 (edited) swg emu sucks.. if you are honestly so convinced it doesnt suck why are you still here.. the game was crap. the only thing it was good for was crafting . the rest was subpar at best. including the housing.. the implementation of the housing sucked. the building of them was good. the crafting, but the rest..horrible... but this game will never be swg..it will eventually get much better than swg ever was.. if you cant wait or pine for swg go emu it Nothing to do with the discussion or the post I made, which is people will simply take these games away from their respective publishers. Hell, there's already a TOR emu in development. The rest of your diatribe was opinion. Edited June 3, 2012 by Bluerodian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomasgallant Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 (edited) Nothing to do with the discussion or the post I made, which is people will simply take these games away from their respective publishers. Hell, there's already a TOR emu in development. i think its funny people are trying to 'take the games away' from their publishers... i think it will be even funnier when lucas decides to sue for intellectual property rights.. that will be funny. dont say he wont.. he nearly sued the 501 legion for wearing un authorized storm trooper uniforms to perform charity... i have no doubt he would sue anyone who tries to make an emulator for tor... with just reason in my opinion Edited June 3, 2012 by thomasgallant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eillack Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 Simple question. Prior to TORs release, did you ever think SWG would outlast it? Because, from where most realists are sitting, TORs not going to last as long as SWG did. It's a pretty mind-blowing concept, frankly. Especially considering how horrible most people think SWG was. Please do not replicate threads please. Keep this flame war generator in the General Chat where it already exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zainichi Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 It was quite hilarious to see Second Life top every MMO listed on the chart. I truly love how during SWG's final days not even 1000 people stuck around to see it end. A good example of the success of games that make you think is EVE online. Currently the game is based on a virtual economy and choices may have severe consequences. Currently it is sitting around 350k subs a little over the number of subs SWG had at its peak which is 300k. WoW is so easy a caveman can do it and is sitting at 10 million subscribers. Which format do you think a publisher will want to do? According to Wikipedia, Second Life had 1 million active subcribers as of 2011. It was released in 2003. More succesfull than EVE Online ever was. More succesfull than SWTOR is now. What format do publishers want to do? The WOW format? Why?? Every single MMO that came out after WOW and that was published in the same format as WOW has failed miserably compared to WOW. Why would a company spend 200 million US dollars in the same gamble? It is not the fact, that WOW is so easy that a caveman can play it, that has made WOW so succesfull. It's the fact that WOW has a playing system that makes the player "addicted" to the game. Once you start smoking a cigarette brand, you rarely EVER change that brand. If SWTOR wants to compete with WOW then they should have found a way to make people addicted in a whole new way. There are loads of cigarette brands out there on the market. I smoke my brand everyday. Everytime I go to buy a new pack I NEVER look at the other brands. Its hard to make a person addicted to 2 cigarette brands. I've never met someone who carried 2 different cigarette brands on them. No, they would have to make me addicted to something completely different. Bioware failed. End of story. P.S. I like cigarettes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpdowning Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 swg emu sucks.. if you are honestly so convinced it doesnt suck why are you still here.. the game was crap. the only thing it was good for was crafting . the rest was subpar at best. including the housing.. the implementation of the housing sucked. the building of them was good. the crafting, but the rest..horrible... but this game will never be swg..it will eventually get much better than swg ever was.. if you cant wait or pine for swg go emu it I'm convinced SWG does not suck. I'm still here cause I don't think this game sucks either. I can play both. If this game will eventually get much better than swg ever was..COOL. I'll be playing it. I liked the housing in SWG. A place to put the stuff you didn't want to sell. We get a cargo box in SWTOR but you got to admit, its kinda cool to display it right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Htoob Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 10 mil or 2 mil. It doesn't matter as it is still 6x times larger than SWG at peak. Which makes my point. QQ for SWG all you want, but no publisher will ever pick up SWG. SWGemu is all you got. No, it doesnt make your point. Without all that asian money to fuel it, it never would have been expanded as much as it had. Agian, as I said previously, WoW would be nothing had it not been for the fact that the asian market enjoys the gear on a stick treadmill mmo. So in that situation, it wouldnt have even come close to 2 mil subs with north american numbers. If a themepark mmo is going to succeed, it needs the asian market to support it. Otherwise, it starts to die right out of the gate like those examples I mentioned earlier. That's the truth of the matter, not my fault you can't think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluerodian Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 Please do not replicate threads please. Keep this flame war generator in the General Chat where it already exists. Same thread. It got moved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Htoob Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 Wrong. When WoW hit 10 million, the splits were 2 million EU, 2.5 million NA and 5.5 million in Asia. So that's 4.5 million, not 2 million. 55% is not a "vast" majority. So don't accuse others of misrepresenting stats if you're going to do so yourself. I don't buy that. NA/EU numbers around 2 mil, Asian 10 mil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalkingDinosaur Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 (edited) I don't buy that. NA/EU numbers around 2 mil, Asian 10 mil. How about a source instead of an opinion? Edited June 3, 2012 by TalkingDinosaur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syylara Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 No, it doesnt make your point. Without all that asian money to fuel it, it never would have been expanded as much as it had. Agian, as I said previously, WoW would be nothing had it not been for the fact that the asian market enjoys the gear on a stick treadmill mmo. So in that situation, it wouldnt have even come close to 2 mil subs with north american numbers. If a themepark mmo is going to succeed, it needs the asian market to support it. Otherwise, it starts to die right out of the gate like those examples I mentioned earlier. That's the truth of the matter, not my fault you can't think. Actually WoW was at or just over 2 million subs by June 2005 when it initially launched in China. Again, you really need to familiarize yourself with the actual facts instead of making things up to suit your narrative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Htoob Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 How about a source instead of an opinion? If people are going to demand one from me, then they should provide their own before even making demands. Otherwise..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syylara Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 I don't buy that. NA/EU numbers around 2 mil, Asian 10 mil. Blizzard Entertainment has announced that World of Warcraft has recently passed 10 million subscribers worldwide since its launch on November 23, 2004. According to Blizzard, WoW now hosts more than 2 million subscribers in Europe, more than 2.5 million in North America, and approximately 5.5 million in Asia. http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=17062 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rzacron Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 I didn't think it would outlast it, but I thought they would coincide... SWG was really picking up, it had reasonable subs, great content, NEW content and updates, history... It was looking good for SWG, then they turn around out of the blue and announce its demise, so sad. Then to top it all off TOR has been a disappointment (To me and 400,000-500,000 subscribers at least) Its a shame SWG had to die, to give life to this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Htoob Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=17062 Unless you can provide an actual official blizzard statement with those numbers, and not some little know 4 year old article from a unrelated site, then I'm not inclined to believe it. Like the old saying, "don't belive everything you read". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalkingDinosaur Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 (edited) Unless you can provide an actual official blizzard statement with those numbers, and not some little know 4 year old article from a unrelated site, then I'm not inclined to believe it. Like the old saying, "don't belive everything you read". Alright, let me just phone my BFF Mike Morhaime and ask him what WoW is sitting at at the moment. Edited June 3, 2012 by TalkingDinosaur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syylara Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 (edited) Unless you can provide an actual official blizzard statement with those numbers, and not some little know 4 year old article from a unrelated site, then I'm not inclined to believe it. Like the old saying, "don't belive everything you read". Gamasutra is a major game industry publication and that blurb matches the press release Blizzard made at the time. Funny how you still refuse to provide any support for your claims while sticking your fingers in your ears and refusing to acknowledge one that is provided. You just want to believe whatever reinforces your pre-determined narrative, regardless of evidence to the contrary. PARIS, France. – 22 January, 2008 -- Blizzard Entertainment, Inc. announced today that subscribership for World of Warcraft®, its award-winning massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG), has continued to climb, recently passing 10 million worldwide. Interest in the game has remained high in all regions, with thousands of new and returning players signing up through the holiday season. World of Warcraft now hosts more than 2 million subscribers in Europe, more than 2.5 million in North America, and approximately 5.5 million in Asia. http://eu.blizzard.com/en-gb/company/press/pressreleases.html?id=2443799 Just in case it didn't sink in: World of Warcraft now hosts more than 2 million subscribers in Europe, more than 2.5 million in North America, and approximately 5.5 million in Asia. It is one thing to be uninformed and make a mistake, quite another entirely to steadfastly refuse to become informed. Edited June 3, 2012 by Syylara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalkingDinosaur Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 I didn't think it would outlast it, but I thought they would coincide... SWG was really picking up, it had reasonable subs, great content, NEW content and updates, history... It was looking good for SWG, then they turn around out of the blue and announce its demise, so sad. Then to top it all off TOR has been a disappointment (To me and 400,000-500,000 subscribers at least) Its a shame SWG had to die, to give life to this Take a look at this chart. So by 400k players you mean 400? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalkingDinosaur Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 (edited) Gamasutra is a major game industry publication and that blurb matches the press release Blizzard made at the time. Funny how you still refuse to provide any support for your claims while sticking your fingers in your ears and refusing to acknowledge one that is provided. You just want to believe whatever reinforces your pre-determined narrative, regardless of evidence to the contrary. http://eu.blizzard.com/en-gb/company/press/pressreleases.html?id=2443799 Just in case it didn't sink in: World of Warcraft now hosts more than 2 million subscribers in Europe, more than 2.5 million in North America, and approximately 5.5 million in Asia. It is one thing to be uninformed and make a mistake, quite another entirely to steadfastly refuse to become informed. Psst. This may or may not help you communicate with him. Here ya go. Dem finely tuned ears. Edited June 3, 2012 by TalkingDinosaur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syylara Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 Take a look at this chart. So by 400k players you mean 400? He wasn't saying SWG had 400k players, he was saying that 4-500k players found TOR disappointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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