Rolling alts = a dead economy

[KantaUO]

Not that the economy or crafting is good at all on this game, but the legacy feature which supports the rolling of multiple alts makes too many players self sufficient .

 

My 1st char is bio 400 analysis and diplomacy

My main is cyber 400 scavenging and ut

My newest alt lv40 is 400 armormech 300 slice and treasure hunting.

 

I don't really have a need to purchase anything from anyone else as I am self sufficient. I am sure others with 4+ chars fair even better than myself.

 

As bw makes crafters better and better the more self sufficient I become.

 

 

The whole augment item thing+ soon to come aug tables make people like myself even less reliant on others. Bioware has been in a hole and i don't see a way out for them based on their game play

Model of really encouraging the rolling of alternate chars.

[evanfardreamer]

Not that the economy or crafting is good at all on this game, but the legacy feature which supports the rolling of multiple alts makes too many players self sufficient .

 

I don't really have a need to purchase anything from anyone else as I am self sufficient. I am sure others with 4+ chars fair even better than myself.

 

As bw makes crafters better and better the more self sufficient I become.

 

 

Model of really encouraging the rolling of alternate chars.

 

Did you ever think that perhaps it was intentional?

 

That maybe Bioware (and I don't presume to think for them) is trying to do exactly that... make it more appealing to folks to roll what they needed, and focus on their own legacy, with minimal need for other products?

 

To compare the game with the large MMO everyone else does, my mage was an enchanter. It required an item to even use the skill at high levels - that had to be made by a blacksmith. If you didn't know one, you could go a week without seeing a smith in trade chat who had the pattern, or have one crop up on the AH, during which time you could not level the enchanting skill. It could be incredibly frustrating.

 

If I could have easily and quickly leveled someone else with the needed skill, I would gladly have done so. Here, I have that option - and do so.

[KantaUO]

Hmm based on their discussions regarding biochem in particular tO reduce re Isabel's etc and make the economy more robust, I did not think it was intentional to make every Player self sufficient

[Grayseven]

If you can roll alts, you can become self-sufficient. A lot of people don't care to have more than a couple of characters so those are the people you are targeting.

 

I had multiple crafters in SWG (2 accounts, 2 characters per account per server when I stopped playing, not sure if that ever changed) in order to cover multiple needs.

 

If someone takes the time to level up alts and crew skills, they deserve self-sufficiency. Even though I have multiple characters with max crafting on one server (with the exception of Armstech which will be done at some point) I still buy things from others either because I don't have the schematics or I haven't proc'd an augment or I haven't got the materials.

 

Game economies...and this is only my opinion here...aren't that important. I see Crew Skills not as a credit earner, but as a tool with which I can get gear. If I happen to make a few credits (and boy, have I), that's fine but that isn't the reason I leveled up those skills.

 

If crafting were a major game play component such as they were with SWG, then I could see your issue, but then crafting could be fixed so that no one could cover all of the basis with their 8 characters per server through such things as specialization (Synthweaving, specialization in Heavy Armor would reduce materials needed and increase chance of RE proc's and crafting criticals as well as decrease crafting, for example). Crafting in SWTOR isn't a major focus. Like space combat, it seems little more than a mini-game.

 

Now, that could change in the future, but for now I don't think it's really a big worry. Credits are easily earned through other avenues and there is still enough of an economy to let someone willing to fill the gaps on the GTN earn a sizable chunk of credits.

[Lady_Alyria]

I have 4 characters, one of each class, so I have a cybertech, biochemist, armormech, and artificer. I spend TONS of money on the GTN. I buy crafting materials, the stuff the other two crafting classes make, crafting missions, etc. Crafting may make you money, but it also costs lots and lots of money. And while having 4 characters means you can make more of your own gear, you also need to outfit 8 people (character and main companion) regularly. That's a crapton of gear and unless you have 6 characters you'lll need something from someone, and even if you can make everything unless you have buckets of time to grind mats you still end up buying off the GTN. Edited June 3, 2012 by Lady_Alyria

[Heezdedjim]

Alts are also a huge source of demand. People get sick of waiting even an hour or a minute for stuff the second time around, or the third, or the eighth, so they just open their main's fat wallet and buy whatever they want for their new little toons, at whatever price they have to pay. On my first character, I ran every quest, on every planet, used all my quest greens, and when I hit 50, went straight to the PvP vendors and bought a full set of Recruit gear. Then I started grinding dailies and raiding to get my "real" gear. I never once even opened the GTN before 50, and it might as well not even have existed for me. This character has maxed synthweaving, and I didn't even bother to make armor for myself while leveling, so I was "self-supplying" even when I crafted nothing.

 

Now that I have one level 50 who can make money as needed by running dailies, to fund whatever else I want to do, I buy tons of stuff on the GTN for alts. I would buy more if it was available. I even buy augments for one alt who has armormech and should be able to make them, but hasn't farmed the schematics up yet, or I haven't been able to get them on the GTN. I also make and sell stuff regularly, now that I have a cash flow to fund regular farming of materials, and I am slowly amassing a full collection of all orange schematics for my synthweaver, so that I can make anything people want. (That, btw, is the real "work" of maxing out a crafter; maxing the skill means nothing, and it takes a LOT of time and credits to get a full set of orange patterns for your skill, at least for the armor ones.)

[Aedey]

I agree with the OP. To me it doesn't really help the community to be self reliant. Then crafters have nothing to do when they have 8 50s. Bioware, I think, isn't looking long term as much as they should with this. Things on this game doesn't really shout to me that is has a strong economy.. especially when on my server I find it tough to get a hold of some nice gear on the GTN for any of my toons. I, like some, can't be bothered to craft stuff. I prefer to support those who do. It's easier for me & they get a reward for doing it.

Yet more people are doing the alt thing (me too, but as I explained not one line above..) & they make what they need basically for free, granted they have the schems.

From my experience on SWG, when the crafters leave the server.. **** goes down hill fast. There are many people like myself that don't really enjoy crafting, & we get left in the dark due to this. Yeah you can go say "Blah blah blah stop being lazy" Well tbh idc. The game is what we make it, & if that's what I (we) want then go suck an egg.

 

Either way, economies are fragile... I just hope Bioware knows what they are doing & can see if an economics crash is upon us. I can tell you right now, if that happens.. bugs will be the least of the community's worries. The subs will fall more than Bioware could throw a stone at.

Edited June 3, 2012 by Aedey

[Glower]

I have 4 characters, one of each class, so I have a cybertech, biochemist, armormech, and artificer. I spend TONS of money on the GTN. I buy crafting materials, the stuff the other two crafting classes make, crafting missions, etc. Crafting may make you money, but it also costs lots and lots of money. And while having 4 characters means you can make more of your own gear, you also need to outfit 8 people (character and main companion) regularly. That's a crapton of gear and unless you have 6 characters you'lll need something from someone, and even if you can make everything unless you have buckets of time to grind mats you still end up buying off the GTN.

 

^this!

[Kakachan]

While lvling an alt it is much cheaper to buy an item from AH instead of try to learn that schemetic with another alt and try to craft it; at endgame there is no way you may know all columi and black hole scemetics with all of your chars, so I cant agree to topic.

[Yogol]

Alts are also a huge source of demand.

 

Indeed. It's true that you CAN become ''self-sufficient'' with alts, but selling to low-level alts is also a huge opportunity for sellers: someone that levels up their very first character doesn't have alot of money, but with their second/third alt, they got a main character that has millions of credits, credits players spend to buy the hilts/barrels/armoring for their alts.

 

I think the biggest market in the game is NOT the main of people, but their alts.

[Blackardin]

Not that the economy or crafting is good at all on this game, but the legacy feature which supports the rolling of multiple alts makes too many players self sufficient .

 

Anyone tried to gear alt with other alts yet? Quite the adventure. Blues will take you about 5 hours for two levels worth of gear, purples are off the charts with time and cost. You can reduce the cost by farming mats in different areas, but the time will remain the same. For a system that is suppose to support this, its doing a hell a bad job at it. ;p

Edited June 3, 2012 by Blackardin

[Gwena]

Hmm, I kinda see what you mean about self-sufficiency. Crafting is great for gearing leveling characters!

 

Though, crafting can be a pain if you don't like that sort of thing. After doing cybertech on my first character, on my second character I just wanted to be able to buy stuff I needed, so I didn't do any crafting skill at all! It was a lot simpler, and even without help from my main I would have been ok in terms of credits.

 

But population issues make for an anemic GTN, which makes self suficiency far more appealing. My newest character is a synthweaver in part because of this.

 

I think the biggest market in the game is NOT the main of people, but their alts.

 

Excellent point. On my main, I didn't have a lot of extra credits to spend and though I did buy a few things on the GTN, I was thrifty out of necessity. But now that I have a level 50, I can buy things for my alts that they don't really "need" but that make questing easier and make them look nicer. Like a purple here and there, the most up-to-date implants possible, a random blue chest piece that is totally not needed but that looks awesome, etc.

 

Now if only that kind of stuff was still regularly available on the GTN. xD WTB implants, color crystals, and gear for my companion!

[uniz]

Not that the economy or crafting is good at all on this game, but the legacy feature which supports the rolling of multiple alts makes too many players self sufficient .

 

My 1st char is bio 400 analysis and diplomacy

My main is cyber 400 scavenging and ut

My newest alt lv40 is 400 armormech 300 slice and treasure hunting.

 

I don't really have a need to purchase anything from anyone else as I am self sufficient. I am sure others with 4+ chars fair even better than myself.

 

As bw makes crafters better and better the more self sufficient I become.

 

 

The whole augment item thing+ soon to come aug tables make people like myself even less reliant on others. Bioware has been in a hole and i don't see a way out for them based on their game play

Model of really encouraging the rolling of alternate chars.

 

bioware didnt CREATE this. it has been around in mmos for years. the more you play these games and go to the market, ah or gtn and NOT find what you want the more you realize that doing it yourself is far easier and faster. also the prices some people are asking just pushes people to do this. these crewskills are stupid easy to level up which is a common theme in wow clone mmos over the years. it goes hand in hand with the stupid easy and fast leveling mmo models most companies now make. if the tradeskilling was slower and more difficult you wouldn't be seeing so many people having every crewskill.

 

so the root of this problem isnt bioware but rather what people have proven over the years that they want fast and easy tradeskilling with thier fast and easy leveling. there are games out there that have slower and more difficult leveling and tradeskilling promoting a economy and a community that most people now want. however they are not all that popular and not a money maker that every company now demands.

 

BUT there is one thing that bioware could do. that is have a means to stop gaining exp on alts AND have tiered pvp warfronts: like 10-19, 20-29, 30-39, 40-49 and 50. this way pvpers will 'twink" up thier alts and buy more lower level blue/purple gear made by players. but you must have BOTH tiered pvp AND a means to turn off exp for this to work. will it fix the problem the op feels the game is creating? i doubt it for the above reasons. but it will help all crewskills and put more items back on the gtn for people to sell and buy. this idea wont work now with the server population issue but is something for them to think about months down the road.

[KaptKaos]

I started out trying to get all of my characters to be proficient in various professions. I have 3 level 50s and I find it far easier to have my new alts simple gather mats and sell them on the GTN for cash and buy what I need. It takes me way too long to create purple level items for my new toons. Its faster in general to buy what I need. However, with the recent downturn in population on my server (Lord Praven) I really have a hard time finding useful gear for my little alts, which forces me back to trying to make gear.

 

So I can see both sides of this, and I like neither.

[LarryRow]

Anyone tried to gear alt with other alts yet? Quite the adventure. Blues will take you about 5 hours for two levels worth of gear, purples are off the charts with time and cost. You can reduce the cost by farming mats in different areas, but the time will remain the same. For a system that is suppose to support this, its doing a hell a bad job at it. ;p

 

But why would you bother? That's the real question. The most efficient use of your time is to run content on your alt. You'll outlevel anything your main might make for your lowbie alt pretty quick. It's not like you need blues and purples to progress.

 

The only thing your main should be focused on is getting the key endgame schematics.

[Darlgon]

Pft.. .the purple stuff, while nice.. is out-leveled too quickly for the anemic returns of the purple mats from missions.

 

I make up to blue level and then sell on the GTN. Heck, my low levels would love to have stuff available to buy, even green trash drops, but those are just not available. People are not posting anything under 45 any more on my server it seems. So. I am being forced to be self-reliant with my 6 guys across factions. I did a search the other day for ear pieces from 1-45 and came back with 3, all STR, useless for my Corso.

 

If your 50 is bored, and you are worried about the economy, get some of the lower level recipes up to blue and sell away. People, as someone above said, crack out their wallet for their 2-3-4-xth alt through so they can level faster with harder mobs without dying.

[Veluthurk]

For me the equation is Rolling alts + smaller world populations = a dead economy

 

I'm on Ebon Hawk and I find myself at the GTN wondering where the stuff is. This is with both factions.

 

I'm leveling 3 and more often than not there is nothing available. This is especially true under 'item modification' category. When stuff does appear it is priced like it was personally hand made in platinum. This has made me spend credits I would have gladly spent on the GTN to level crew skills. This situation has it to where the only one I need which I don't have yet covered is armstech, for the aim barrels Akaavi needs.

 

I'm all for balance but between lower server population and lack of viable crafting the GTN suffers. This forces people to roll another alt and level the necessary crewskill which leads to less need of the GTN which leads to ...