Styxx Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Bioware cannot rescue this game. Can I have your stuff, please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xandax Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 (edited) <snip>We can thank EA for that, they have a history of demanding deadlines that cant be met. <snip>. It's easy to blame EA , too easy. When we view this game compared to what was stated pre-launch/development by Bioware - I put much more blame in Bioware than I do EA. Combined with the experiences from their last couple of Single Player games of DA:2 and ME:3 - then I'd say this is much more a product of Bioware promising too much, and delivering something completely different. People blame EA due to ... well, it's bandwagon - however it was Bioware that said A and did B. There's no 'evidence' that it's EA's fault and that EA made deadlines that Bioware couldn't meet more than it was Bioware that couldn't do what they wanted or as we've seen now a couple of times - simply did PR lies about the product. However blame aside - It's possible this game can be 'rescued'. However it all comes down to how fast they get the merges and transfers into the game and how they handle it the population issue afterwards. Whether they'll be able to retain the customers that remains after the mergers enough that the game content works and can be expanded on - well, I'm not really optimistic. But the longer time before mergers/transfers; the worse issue it'll become. My server is not as empty as many others - but it is a huge issue still. Much of my guild is seemingly also waiting on GW2; and I'll properly follow - so while I could play both games - I'm tired of Bioware's ... "PR spin" and frankly am growing very impatient with them. GW2 will cost Bioware customers as well. Question is - how many is actually left once we look past the 1.3 million numbers last announced. How many are actually active compared to just having subs run out. How many will leave if their guild or friends goes to GW2 or another game. etc. Edited June 2, 2012 by xandax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkirus Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 The answer is simple. What's killed TOR is that it copied WoW. And what will make GW2 a raging success is that it didn't. Told you it was simple. Na. Tor is a lot different than WoW and it lacks many of the good features of WoW. If they tried to copy WoW, they failed big time..lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalekjs Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 You complain that people are making unfair comparisons to GW and GW2 due to them having fundamentally different mechanics but its perfectly okay to compare GW2 and SWTOR? Newsflash those also have fundamentally different mechanics. There's room for both games. GW1 and 2 are fundamentally different in the fact that one of them is basically an online rpg you can play with friends if you so choose, while the other one is an mmo. Swtor will be in direct competition with it when it releases. I dont believe they ever planned to have them, in fact i believe they planned the opposite and tried to make a game without them at all. Take Rift for example, it launched without a few of those things but had them in within 4 monhts of launch, because they either had them planned but couldnt get them in at launch or they knew they might need them and had a plan in place incase they did need the. Bioware tried to release a game to rival wow and for some reason thought they could do it without the features that help wow keep people playing . I have no idea if it was from lack of trying to figure out why people stay playing wow, or the arrogance of something their own way not because its a good way but because its just a different way. Dual specs, combat windows, macros and cross server lfg does not make a game a wow clone. It makes it a modern mmo ready to compete in the modern mmo market. I think swtor has everything esle it needs to compete with wow, they just failed and still fail to realize those key components. I can agree with this. I really find it too far fetched to believe that 1.2 mysteriously broke transfers. If they really did, then I lost all faith in BW for going ahead with it instead of delaying Legacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallorik Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 That's patently untrue. I wasn't grinding for gear in UO back in 1997... I wasn't grinding for gear in EQ... I wasn't grinding for gear in SWG... WoW was really the game that brought the gear grind into the spotlight, making OCD kids all over the world get on a treadmill so they could have the latest hot weapon or armour... and it's so RIDICULOUS as a game mechanic... it's fantastic that GW2 throws it out the window. Yeah i have to disagree with you there, all the major mmos have used the carrot on a stick mechanic for gear, and gear progression has always been what drives an mmo. I havent played GW2 yet ( i will next weekend) But i find it really hard to believe that they dont have some kind of gear progression as their main insentive. If they dont then that game doesnt stand a chance in hell with any pve people. As far as EQ1, if sitting in Lguk for hours a day every day for 2 weeks to get an FBSS wasnt grinding for gear then i dont know what is, and anyone who played eq pre velious did that grind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blur Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Na. Tor is a lot different than WoW and it lacks many of the good features of WoW. If they tried to copy WoW, they failed big time..lol. Come on... TOR is "WoW in Space". That's pretty much universally accepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mordresh Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 (edited) Seriously, you like GW2, that's fine, you're entitled to your opinion, but that's all it is. Stop throwing it around like its fact. Just do everyone here a favour and go to their forums or something. QFT. I've been browsing the general forum for a bit today and I swear the guy you quoted must be part of the GW2 marketing team or something. Edited June 2, 2012 by Mordresh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkirus Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Come on... TOR is "WoW in Space". That's pretty much universally accepted. Na....it is only that way in your own world and those who share that view. The WoW haters and bashers will say that..but never mention the things WoW does right such as dual specs..macros..combat logs and cross server LFG features. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northarrow Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 QFT. I've been browsing the general forum for a bit today and I swear the guy you quoted must be part of the GW2 marketing team or something. Sadly, it's not just this forum, I've seen them trolling on every gaming forum I've visited. They're everywhere, and if they're a general sign of what the community is going to be like, that game has no chance. Although it is entertaining to see them brag about that game, listening to them and you'll hear it all from no grind to peace in the Middle East because all the terrorists will be playing it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhysling Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 No, it's doomed, doomed, doomed, you'd better unsubscribe right now. Um, send me all your stuff first, though. Especially credits. "Dahail" on Rubat Crystal. If you come to my server you can have them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blur Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 (edited) Sadly, it's not just this forum, I've seen them trolling on every gaming forum I've visited. They're everywhere, and if they're a general sign of what the community is going to be like, that game has no chance. Yes, because if people like a game and want to point out it's better than another game, it's gotta be a conspiracy, right? Seriously... stop and listen to yourself. Sometimes games simply ARE better. And I can say in my experience, GW2 walks all over TOR. And doesn't even have a monthly fee. Edited June 2, 2012 by blur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt_Latency Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Sadly, it's not just this forum, I've seen them trolling on every gaming forum I've visited. They're everywhere, and if they're a general sign of what the community is going to be like, that game has no chance. Although it is entertaining to see them brag about that game, listening to them and you'll hear it all from no grind to peace in the Middle East because all the terrorists will be playing it oh it's the same with any game. In WoW people were talking about how SW:ToR was going to pwn it. On PC forums console players post about how pc sucks. On CoD fourms people post about how BF is better. People like talking about other games from the same gerne and comparing them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northarrow Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Yes, because if people like a game and want to point out it's better than another game, it's gotta be a conspiracy, right? Seriously... stop and listen to yourself. Sometimes games simply ARE better. And I can say in my experience, GW2 walks all over TOR. And doesn't even have a monthly fee. It's not a conspiracy, it's just immature. There are plenty of games I don't like and I don't troll their forums. And in my experience there are some things that GW2 does better than TOR, on the other hand there are some things that GW2 does vastly inferior to TOR. It's all opinion and yours in no more or less valid than anyone else's. Seriously...grow up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dezzi Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 It's all opinion and yours in no more or less valid than anyone else's. Seriously...grow up If opinion is opinion and all opinions are equal, why the need for your last comment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikphobos Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Actually, with GW2s WvWvW being a massive improvement on Dark Age of Camelot -- an ancient game that people are still paying a monthly fee to play -- it's pretty clear that people are going to play GW2 for many, many years to come. And most won't spend a cent after buying the box to do so. not going to spend a cent playing GW2? wow you defend it to much and you dont even know it have a cash shop? so dont tell me GW2 will be 100% free, because that is a lie, and how long will take them for make the cash shop to actually impact the game? because in GW1 the cash shop was very relevant dont come and tell me they wont have a need to use it, do you honestly think they will keep the servers up and in good shape for year and year, with just the box they sell? lol you are being naive or just lie to yourself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisftw Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Sadly, it's not just this forum, I've seen them trolling on every gaming forum I've visited. They're everywhere, and if they're a general sign of what the community is going to be like, that game has no chance. Although it is entertaining to see them brag about that game, listening to them and you'll hear it all from no grind to peace in the Middle East because all the terrorists will be playing it lol very true. GW2 according to the fanboys will change your entire life. your outlook on it and everything you will be a better person. girls/guys will like you more. you'll get a huge promotion at your job. blah blah blah. GW2 honestly has more hype than any game i've ever seen before it. EVER and i've been tracking games since planetscape Torment!! which was back in like 1998 or '99. I've NEVER seen this much hype for a game. and with this much hype failure is destined to happen because its not possible to meet the demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhysling Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Well most of the questions on my exit survey from SWTOR where about Free-to-Play. That might save it once this game goes F2P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthNuke Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Everyone knows this game is in trouble. EA knows, BioWare Knows, The media knows, We the subscribers know. Even the fanboys know. Everyone knows the game was launched unfinished and unrefined. We can thank EA for that, they have a history of demanding deadlines that cant be met. The result of EA's poor business ethos of quantity over quality. Anyway before I start going off the rails lets get back to topic. Do you the community think that BioWare can rescue this game? Or do you think there's nothing worth rescuing? Will the launch of Guild Wars 2 be the final nail in the coffin for SWTOR? What will it take for you to re-subscribe if you have already cancelled? Please answer for yourself not what you think everyone else is thinking. Personally I think BioWare can pull this back if something definitive happens in the next 2 weeks. I genuinely believe this game still has the potential to outshine everything else out there including the upcoming Guild Wars. The one and only thing that will get me to re-sub is server transfers/merges. If that doesn't happen before GW2 then I will probably never re-sub I only have time to invest in 1 MMO and that is usually the one that currently has my attention. Nope. There's too many customers have been treated too poorly, imo. This could be the fastest dying MMO in history. Even with transfers, a TON of us are still leaving, out of principle. Transfers will bring some people back short term...but they'll just quit again. My guess, in 6 months they'll have less than 200K subs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisftw Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Nope. There's too many customers have been treated too poorly, imo. This could be the fastest dying MMO in history. Even with transfers, a TON of us are still leaving, out of principle. Transfers will bring some people back short term...but they'll just quit again. My guess, in 6 months they'll have less than 200K subs. your bold claims to the fastest dying sub in history is pretty ignorant. considering that APB died in just 90 days. i'm talking all out the studio went out of business and the servers were closed. but you keep on going with how ONLY THIS GAME will be the fastest dying mmo in history. yep.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelflaed Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Sadly, it's not just this forum, I've seen them trolling on every gaming forum I've visited. They're everywhere, and if they're a general sign of what the community is going to be like, that game has no chance. Although it is entertaining to see them brag about that game, listening to them and you'll hear it all from no grind to peace in the Middle East because all the terrorists will be playing it I've noticed this - I wonder if games know how incredibly off-putting their dutiful minions can be. I've delayed trying several games because of such posts as Blur's. First, who hangs around the forums of games they don't like? No one whose opinion I would value. When I'm done with a game, I'm gone. (I haven't seen a WoW forum in years - only interest in the game could get me to endure these miserable spots, anyway) Clearly, they have motivation, and it isn't this game's best interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celebrus Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 (edited) To put it quite simply, no. They can't go back in time 6 months and execute their launch properly. It's really a matter of what could have been at this point, the game is never going to reach the level of popularity that it had the potential to reach before 6 months of complete and utter failure was forced on the player base. This isn't a case of the summer slump that mmos face or simply other game releases tearing people away, at it's core it's a flawed game with many many issues and concerns that will continue to force potential players away from the game, long after they have delivered us transfers, populations are going to continue to drop until they can fix the problems at the core of the game, such as lack of content, simplicity of content, lack of competitive pvp, no social interaction, no effort put forth towards simple things. I haven't seen anything from BW that indicates to me that this is a company capable of managing and supporting a MMO in the long term, and as far as EA goes, this game is following the same footsteps of other MMOs they have published. Edited June 2, 2012 by Celebrus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ravenhurst Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Someone needs to pay me if I should play a medieval Wowcrap game like GW2, stop advertising this trash here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trenter Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Why be so sarcastic when plenty of people have played it at this stage and we can tell you, from firsthand experience in beta weekends, that GW2 is a TON better than TOR? I'm that sarcastic because I have two good friends that tried GW2 (haven't myself) and according to them it wasn't all that good. They really didn't enjoy it very much, and I've seen plenty of other people saying the same thing, here, on mmorpg.com and elsewhere. I'm sure it'll be great for you, but surely you aren't expecting everyone to be a fan of your caliber? There'll be soooo much complaining... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMornard Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 If you come to my server you can have them. What's your server? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMornard Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Actually the game will be in much better shape when all the folks who are disappointed just move on. If that leaves us with 500K subscribers who like the game and are willing to be patient, then yes the game will be better off. This. If you don't like the game, fine. Doorknob, butt, hit, way out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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