Tricky-Ha Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 (edited) How do you test something like this? Would they set up a brand new live server & then send out an announcement to all the servers asking all US players to use a character transfer service to port over to it & then do the same thing at peak playtimes for EU players, like some kind of live beta test? I have no idea how it could properly be tested with the low number of players that voluntarily choose to test new content on the PTS, so I kind of foresee a massive bit of failure when the server mergers finally do reach the live servers because they just didn't have enough players to test them to capacity..but of course I am quite uneducated on what other options for testing there are so I'd be happy if anyone could help fill in my gaps of misinformation. Edited May 31, 2012 by Tricky-Ha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holden_Dissent Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 they aren't doing a server merger so I'm not sure why they would bother testing that. pretty easy tho. build 2 servers, have 20 developers create multiple toons. Insta level them to differing legacies and levels. Then merge. booyah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ha Posted May 31, 2012 Author Share Posted May 31, 2012 (edited) It's really that simple? Dev tools to create 1000's of botted characters, basically just NPC's? Well if it works, it works. I was hoping for some kind of community involvement in the testing for server mergers, but if they don't need us, then that kinda sucks. Edited May 31, 2012 by Tricky-Ha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holden_Dissent Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 I was being very basic. I'm sure they would all need varying: quests completed, achievements acquired, gear sets, matching names, valor levels, etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shifty_Al Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 They already pulled off mass transfers to Asia/Pacific servers so they have experience. Those servers were "new" as will be the "super servers" so the process should be very similar though on a grander scale. So thank the Aussies. They tested the system for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThiborF Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 How do you test something like this? Would they set up a brand new live server & then send out an announcement to all the servers asking all US players to use a character transfer service to port over to it & then do the same thing at peak playtimes for EU players, like some kind of live beta test? I have no idea how it could properly be tested with the low number of players that voluntarily choose to test new content on the PTS, so I kind of foresee a massive bit of failure when the server mergers finally do reach the live servers because they just didn't have enough players to test them to capacity..but of course I am quite uneducated on what other options for testing there are so I'd be happy if anyone could help fill in my gaps of misinformation. Clone existing backup data and move it to new hardware and test internally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakkip Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 I think it is a fairly complicated technical process. First they have to entice one hamster into the other cage, then move the wheel over, find a way to have both wheels power one new server... oh wait a minute... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ha Posted May 31, 2012 Author Share Posted May 31, 2012 (edited) They already pulled off mass transfers to Asia/Pacific servers so they have experience. Those servers were "new" as will be the "super servers" so the process should be very similar though on a grander scale. So thank the Aussies. They tested the system for us. Oh, alright, thanks Aussies & Asians. Did those transfers works nicely without any major problems meaning that our planned server mergers should be basically worry free? I suppose they did cause if there was a massive uproar I possibly would've heard about it. Thanks for helping me understand better Shifty, much appreciated. Edited May 31, 2012 by Tricky-Ha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenjaminminU Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 I was being very basic. I'm sure they would all need varying: quests completed, achievements acquired, gear sets, matching names, valor levels, etc etc. Pretty sure all of that can be randomised or they could go about it by picking and copying random players progress to these test characters. So sometime in the future there could be a mirialan bounty hunter with the exact quest progress and gear as my mercenary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoiks Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 How do you test something like this? Would they set up a brand new live server & then send out an announcement to all the servers asking all US players to use a character transfer service to port over to it & then do the same thing at peak playtimes for EU players, like some kind of live beta test? I have no idea how it could properly be tested with the low number of players that voluntarily choose to test new content on the PTS, so I kind of foresee a massive bit of failure when the server mergers finally do reach the live servers because they just didn't have enough players to test them to capacity..but of course I am quite uneducated on what other options for testing there are so I'd be happy if anyone could help fill in my gaps of misinformation. They don't need us to test it. After running tests of whatever special cases they can think of, they could then copy the data from two or more of the live servers and merge them onto a test server to see what happens, have some of the QA people play some of the characters to make sure things work and run db comparisons between the original servers and the test server to ensure no data was lost. But as others have said, we have no reason to believe they will be doing mergers at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ha Posted May 31, 2012 Author Share Posted May 31, 2012 They don't need us to test it. After running tests of whatever special cases they can think of, they could then copy the data from two or more of the live servers and merge them onto a test server to see what happens, have some of the QA people play some of the characters to make sure things work and run db comparisons between the original servers and the test server to ensure no data was lost. But as others have said, we have no reason to believe they will be doing mergers at this point. Ok, that makes sense. As far as the belief that there's no reason to think that mergers are happening...am I using the wrong word? Should it be server "transfers" then cause we know for a fact that is happening, right? I was using "mergers" in relation to Erickson's talk about increasing servers capacities, the whole "super server" thing & I figure some are unsure if or when this will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naej Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 I think their main problem is that transfers have to be done manually (i.e. you send a request and some guy does the transfer) and that they are looking into a way to do it automatically (i.e. you send a request and the system transfers you without having anybody doing anything). With the number of people they have to transfer (virtually, everyone on the US servers), can you imagine the man-power requested to do such a thing manually? Really, I can understand why they want to implement their auto-transfer tool first. I think we should all take a chill-pill and wait for them to be ready. It's coming, we all know it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shifty_Al Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Oh, alright, thanks Aussies & Asians. Did those transfers works nicely without any major problems meaning that our planned server mergers should be basically worry free? I suppose they did cause if there was a massive uproar I possibly would've heard about it. Thanks for helping me understand better Shifty, much appreciated. Np. Don't get me wrong. There WERE issues that I read about during the pacific server transfers. Problems with reserving names and such. But they got it done successfully. And BW undoubtedly learned a lot as they went through this process. I personally think this is the primary reason that they want transfers to new servers rather than existing servers. They feel they know what they are doing and what to expect after doing it once already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoiks Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Ok, that makes sense. As far as the belief that there's no reason to think that mergers are happening...am I using the wrong word? Should it be server "transfers" then cause we know for a fact that is happening, right? I was using "mergers" in relation to Erickson's talk about increasing servers capacities, the whole "super server" thing & I figure some are unsure if or when this will happen. Yes, saying transfers would be better. That's merging data on a much smaller scale, the player must instigate it, and it requires the player has some level of understanding of what they're getting into when they do it. It should also be easy to test without using the playerbase, again they still have all of our data to copy and use for testing purposes. As for "super servers", not really sure why he said that comment about greatly increasing server capacity when talking about transfers. It obviously gives the impression of server mergers instead. Maybe because it'll allow them to offer transfers to even the most currently full servers, I don't know. In the end, it's just semantics though, I'm sure as some servers are abandoned to the point of nearly being completely emptied they will have mandatory transfers off of them in order to shut those empty servers down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 They'll do large scale testing when they release 1.3 to the test server. They'll clone our characters using the new 'technology'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanaDark Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 (edited) My current career is close (I test software for machines that function on the micron level). What I would do as a tester would be to create two servers (This is a software thing, totally independent from hardware. Game servers are not correlated to hardware servers on a 1 to 1). Basically I would develop a script to add characters and fill their attributes etc. to another server. Then I would go to the LAST character added and check them and work my way up till I had a reasonable position to stop. This depends entirely on the idea that they have developed the ability to move one character from one server to another. If they have not, then that processes is to be developed and tested first. After that, it is a matter of running a simple script. Professionally (Being a software engineer myself by trade), I would say it'd take ONE person a week to develop, then another 4 people two weeks to test COMPLETELY (If it goes live and messes up, its game over, TEST TEST TEST TEST TEST... and then TEST). Anything longer than that means they are NOT taking it seriously at all. This is most likely the case. Keep in mind this game is NOT their main money maker nor is it the sole money maker. Because of that, I would add 2 months to each step. This is my professional opinion. Edited May 31, 2012 by DanaDark I sux at spelling today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZudetGambeous Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 I think it is a fairly complicated technical process. First they have to entice one hamster into the other cage, then move the wheel over, find a way to have both wheels power one new server... oh wait a minute... Don't be silly... the whole point of server mergers is so they don't have to pay as many hamsters. They fire the old hamsters and work the new ones twice as hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SajmanPeetee Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 With the number of people they have to transfer (virtually, everyone on the US servers), can you imagine the man-power requested to do such a thing manually? Really, I can understand why they want to implement their auto-transfer tool first. Not virtually everyone, for sure everyone. Fatman is not going to stay on its max 3000 pop server, it needs to be moved to a super server like everyone else. The Asian/Pacific transfers were done manually because there was only a couple thousand to do. Their not going to do 1.3 million transfers manually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoiks Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Don't be silly... the whole point of server mergers is so they don't have to pay as many hamsters. They fire the old hamsters and work the new ones twice as hard. You guys are wrong on so many levels... First of all, SWTOR servers don't use a hamster, they use a space dog. Second, in order to merge servers Kirk takes each space dog out of its server and hands it to Spock Spock then must take each server's space dog and place them onto a transporter pad. Scotty then transports them onto a single pad, and voila! Finally, Spock then hands the newly merged space dog to Kirk, who places the space dog back into the server. Why do they use Star Trek characters to do this in a Star Wars game? Sci-fi union rules, my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanaDark Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Not virtually everyone, for sure everyone. Fatman is not going to stay on its max 3000 pop server, it needs to be moved to a super server like everyone else. The Asian/Pacific transfers were done manually because there was only a couple thousand to do. Their not going to do 1.3 million transfers manually. No. The math behind it is no. (Studied math in college as well as computer science). Even if Fatman is the most populated server and EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER decides to transfer to it, you are not looking at "everyone" as logically the people already on Fatman will not be moving to the same server. Additionally, that also assumes that everyone will want to move to Fatman. Believe it or not, I am certain there are players that DO NOT want to go there. I for one recently started playing, and knew about Fatman and made the conscious decision to NOT roll my characters there. If they already have the ability to transfer a character from one server to another, it would take a grand total of one person a week to design a fully automated way to merge servers completely (all of them into different varying types). It would take less than that to automate the transfer process outright. From my understanding, they are mostly concerned about the different levels of the servers (Wealth, abundance of gear, balance, etc) than they are with the actual software behind merging. And for the love of god, next person that thinks 1 in game server = 1 real life computer server will make my head explode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LilSaihah Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 (edited) Take some old backups of server data, copy them into new server infrastructure and then mash them together. Sift through the wreckage to try to find bugs. Edited May 31, 2012 by LilSaihah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ha Posted May 31, 2012 Author Share Posted May 31, 2012 Well thanks everyone for all the informative & fun replies, it's certainly filled in my gaps in knowledge, curbed a few fears I had & put some smiles on my face. I'm glad I never made a habit of bad-mouthing this forum community. I find the constant trolling & stuff quite entertaining but I've always noticed that if help if asked in the right manner it's genuinely offered. I'm back to lurk mode then as I watch the days tick by on my still active sub as I wait for either the PTS for 1.3 to start up or server transfers to start up, whichever happens 1st. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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