Turned off lvl 50 pvp straight away

[LarryRow]

And yet it still doesnt make a difference /shrug

 

As the pvp tiers get higher the beginners are left in the dirt. My point is that its just not fun to be facerolled over and over again. Pvp would be much better off just getting rid of expertise altogether.

 

Nope, as the tiers get higher, the bottom tier will be upgraded and more easy to obtain to normalize the discrepancy with the new highest tier.

 

Note: just like the OP, mine has a lot of "tiers"

[Whizle]

This thread seems ridiculous to me. I hit 50 on Thursday and started doing pvp because several people told me it was the quickest way to gear up. I did get owned while playing, but a kind soul whispered that I needed to go get some recruit gear if I wanted to live. So I drop my bankroll on a full recruit suit (no big deal, money is cheap when you're 50 and I made it all back in a day). Played through memorial day weekend and I'm more than half way to full battlemaster. Not only do I feel like I can compete, I feel I can contribute to my team's victory. If you have a substantial amount of battlemaster gear and still can't hold your own, then you probably need to rethink tactics/strategy while in game. The difference between me with high 40s pve gear and a recruit set was night and day. Plus, I can see the difference with each battlemaster piece I add.

[LiveandDieinLA]

I've seen plenty of players get their alt to 50, use the comms they had to buy some bm and fill out the rest with recruit and do 300k damage plus in the first game.

 

The real problem for fresh 50s is that they are used to stomping level 20s with no idea how to pvp.

 

It's the shock of going from being the biggest and baddest guy in the wz to being the softest.

[Sookster]

Exactly. I have 2 toons that hit 50 AFTER 1.2 hit and both started PvPing vs WH people in recruits.

I (again thats me) didnt have any issue fighting WH people, I win some I lose some and took me very little time compare to pre-1.2 when I geared up my main.

 

Like many other posters said, I think even if you got fully augmented WH gear you will probably still get steamrolled by most people with lesser gear than you do. BUT I am not saying you have no skill. I made the assumption simply based on the competent PvPers I know never complained about recruit and are thankful its in game and can be brought as soon as turning 50.

 

But then again, you dont think skill matters in game... so I guess when you lose with better gear (and you are going to) it must be because...

1. They have better gear (which is not the case so go to 2)

2. They play an OPed class (if this happens to be same class as your own then go to 3)

3. They must hack and use cheat programs.

 

There's 2 assassins and a marauder I know that are in full WH augmented gear and they're merging with my guild, they hit like a truck in pvp and steal aggro from tanks in HM/operations all the time, they regularly do 4500-6000 damage hits, you won't get damage like that in recruit and you'll have to pop the best adrenals and relics as BM to match them.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Sookster

[laiboch]

Thats fine they can get gear for pvp. But im not going to waste days of getting my face stamped into the ground. I want player vs player... Not player vs gear. Im talking about the expertise. There is no longer skill involved. Its just another grind for gear and hope u have more expertise then the next guy. Ifthata te way swtor wants to head. Thats fine but im not going to waste my time.

 

I wanted to enjoy pvp in this game but apparently its not for me. I guess the gear grinders can have fun with the same people over and over again....

 

What you want will NEVER happen in a gear centric game. Period. MMO's are almost all gear driven. So he who has the best gear will always have an advantage. The changes to Expertise were a really really bad idea. No DR means that players on servers with a good queue time will have a massive advantage when/if they add rated war zones.

[EternalMarvel]

I've gotten two characters to 50 recently, having leveled up almost entirely through warzones. I bought up my recruit gear and went into my first couple of 50 warzone matches cringing because from some of the things I've read on these forums, I was worried I'd just be getting destroyed instantly. But as it turned out, I did just fine and felt like a useful member of the team. Not as good as I was as a level 40+ playing against low levels, but still effective in performing my role. And I got the first of my 50's to full BM in a couple of weeks. I'm not that keen on 50 pvp for other reasons, but I don't find the gear gap to be much of an issue.

[truchaos]

I am going to put forth the argument that having the tiers of gear actually forces players to develop more skills than this mythical 'level playing field' notion. Here is why:

 

1. Harder, better, faster, stronger.

-As a 'new' 50 coming into a warzone with recruit gear you have to employ cunning, learn the immeasurable value of teamwork, and outclass those who have 'better' gear and more experience than you. In short, you have to out skill your enemy. They have swords, you have a stick- learn to beat them with that stick and you will own them when you have earned your sword.

 

2. Tempering the blade.

-This is the time that pot metal is being separated from steel. Endure it, learn, become better: true skill is noticed far more on 'lesser geared' or 'new' 50's than you might realize. Those of us who have been there, done that... take note when a new player shows that spark of greatness despite their gear level. Those at the top have run this gauntlet already, it is your turn now and how you face it will mark you out to us.

 

3. The nature of victory.

-The manner in which a warrior deals with defeat is a truer mark of his mettle than his comportment in victory. You can chose to roll over and show your belly like a whipped dog OR step up and fight harder/better. That choice is yours and yours alone.

[Jalal]

Or they could just bolster everyone to certain stats regardless of gear making it mainly cosmetic...

 

But since there is no real world or persistent objective pvp why would people continue to play if not for the gear treadmill???

[Leafy_Bug]

I have a main char I pvp on with over 9000 expertise and a low level sentinel (had it at level 28 since february, maybe one day it will reach 50). The 10-49 bracket is chaos and mayhem. People attack because its pvp and not because x or y is a healer. If by pure happenstance someone attacks a healer then we need to mark it down as fringe event as it will never happen again.

 

Playing with my sentinel shows me who will join us in the level 50 pvp and sometimes the results are quite worrying. I see level 49 republic players winning duels because they have more skills unlocked. I see a similar thing for the imperials. Most of them, level 40+, gank lowbies like myself. They chase me around the pit and bolt me to death because, hey, he is level 49 and I am just 28. They call this PVP, I call this 'see ya when you hit 50 bro where I will snap you in half in a few seconds'. So bottom line, the difference in this type of PVP comes from the number of skills you have unlocked and higher level gear you use for pvp.

 

 

In level 50 territory, gear plays an integral part but so does skill. I have a guildie who has too much free time on his hands and has hit 50 with his 6th character. He decided to go against the flow and rolled a sage healer for pvp. The guy has 700 expertise, wearing level 41 implants and recruit gear. Now some of you would totally ignore him and would not take him in your premade. He even showed us screenshots where people told him to quit the wz as he had crap gear. At the end when he healed almost like a good geared healer people thought it was pure luck. We always take him in a wz with us and make sure I have a backup tank to take over with his protection when I get killed. The guy heals 400k with his current gear between wh and bm imps! This is a good example where skill and playing smart can compensate to a certain extent lack of gear. When this guy will be full BM, he will be on everyone's radar as the numbers he crunches are huge. We call him the first 'melee' healer as he comes where the party is not caring he may get one shot. He never does because he has two wh tanks watching his sage bum.

 

 

 

 

OP,

 

I come to you again and remind you that some of us have been in pvp since the game launched. We had time to get our gear, learn our characters, strategies and weaknesses. We also check youtube videos and stay up to date with the latest patches. I have become an expert at killing 'op marauders' because of 1.2. Before 1.2 I never paid any attention to them as I never got pestered. Now, they are the first to go

Edited May 29, 2012 by Leafy_Bug

[YanksfanJP]

Pvp would be much better off just getting rid of expertise altogether.

 

No, it wouldn't. You'd have the same gear disadvantage as a fresh player only now, you'd be getting your butt kicked by full Nightmare Mode gear raiders instead of full War Hero gear PvPers.

 

Plus, you don't actually have to be good at PvP to catch up in gear to the War Hero gear people. All it takes is time and patience. However, you would have to be good at PvE, and also find 7 other people who are, too, in order to catch up to the best in slot raid gear people because you're not beating Nightmare raids without a semblance of a clue.

[ShadowOfVey]

And yet we who keep making level 50 alts somehow find a way to do well in the new system buying recruit gear and playing the games for the daily.

 

Why do you suppose that is?

[PalihoJ]

Or they could just bolster everyone to certain stats regardless of gear making it mainly cosmetic...

 

But since there is no real world or persistent objective pvp why would people continue to play if not for the gear treadmill???

 

Does nobody play these games simply because they enjoy them? Why does everything (PvP and PvE) have to have an objective (gear grind...even the name implies it is a chore) other than enjoyment?

At the end of the day this is just a game and if people need to achieve objectives they should maybe try achieving RL objectives then they may, just may, start playing games for fun again.

If you have had a full day of achieveing RL objectives and you sit down for a bit of relaxing PvP and you die repeatedly it is far easier to put it all into perspective and laugh it off and learn from it.

[Khoraji]

As a fresh 50 with full recruit gear... Pvp is still depressing. I really enjoyed pvp while leveling... But at 50 i did not enjoy going in and not even be able to put a dint in the opposition. Being facerolle in pvp because everyone out gears you is not fun and just a turnoff.

 

Pvp should be about skill... Having pvp gear that mitigates player dmg etc destroys that concept. As a fresh 50 im not expecting to faceroll people but a fair fight would be nice.

 

First of all, even in recruit gear you can do OK

 

Secondly, it takes less than 2 weeks to get full BM. In fact, you can have 5 pieces of BM gear the moment you hit 50 if you do it right.

 

l2p

[Ahhmyface]

Again making the assumption that i havnt pvped in this game. I pvped while leveling and it was a very fun and enjoyable experience that wasnt focused on how much gea you had, but on how well you played. The only thing that seperates lvl 50 pvp from pre 50 is the gear... Its exactly the same game, same arenas, same skills, same classes...

 

That is so wrong it's not even funny.

 

Do you know who has all the best gear? The best players. Why? Because you get gear from winning. Blaming the gear just isn't looking back far enough. How did they get the gear? They won. In some cases, they lost, A LOT. Either way, they paid their dues. You didn't.

 

Somewhere along the line you assumed that pvp meant skill vs skill. It's not. It's your level, your datacrons, your gear, your battle skill, your crafting, your spec, your mod choices, your consumables, and your teammates. In fact, it's everything. MMO pvp is a sandbox. Your job is to rule the sandbox. Now, figure out how. There are no limits. If you don't enjoy unrestrained combat, if you prefer artificial little instanced zero-progression games with no variety, I suggest you find one.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Ahhmyface

[ProfessorWalsh]

If by "fair" you mean a guy who just dinged 50 has the same gear as a guy who has done 15 days in a warzone? No.

 

You dont actually want "fair" you want to instantly be on a level playing field with those who have invested more time. That is by definition, not fair. PvP is fair, you put in the time like we did (which is nothing now, my guildie got full BM in 2 days flat at the weekend from fresh 50), you get the same gear- then we can have an equal fight based on skill.

 

Again, only somebody who doesnt actually understand PvP in this game would complain about expertise, since as i explained you can remove that and you would still get smashed. What you guys want is PvP with no stats at all- im sorry but thats not a RPG or MMO anymore, so its not going to happen.

 

Simply put, if you dont want any player to ever have a statistical numbers advantage over you? better play Street Fighter.

 

Edit: the time it took you to come here and complain you could have earned a BM item...

 

Unfortunately your buddy could only do that because his guild carried him in PVP and let him amass a ton of wins. If you win then it is easy to get BM in 2-3 days. If you lose but try, as what happens to many fresh 50's, they get 20 maybe 30 commendations. At 30 commendations a Warzone at the average of 20 minutes per pop, that is around 50 matches, or 24+ hours non-stop for just the BM chest piece alone.

 

Edit:

And note: I'm in fully augment slotted full PVP gear. I've done my time and even I don't think it is fair.

Edited May 29, 2012 by ProfessorWalsh

[TriviumIsGOAT]

The difference between full recruit gear and full war hero is not that big. Two people in recruit gear should easily be able to take out a person in full war hero.

 

If you're getting stomped it's probably because you're running into premades with good communication and class balance.

are you joking the difference between Recruit and BM is huge, the difference between bm and War hero is not, I can heal through 4 people in recruit gear, its so easy its laughable.

[kitsinni]

Unfortunately your buddy could only do that because his guild carried him in PVP and let him amass a ton of wins. If you win then it is easy to get BM in 2-3 days. If you lose but try, as what happens to many fresh 50's, they get 20 maybe 30 commendations. At 30 commendations a Warzone at the average of 20 minutes per pop, that is around 50 matches, or 24+ hours non-stop for just the BM chest piece alone,

 

I have yet to ever play a level 50 WZ and get as low as 30 commendations ever. I have been in them for less than 2 minutes and got more than that. I don't even know if it is possible to get that low.

[ShadowOfVey]

Fortunately BM gear is very cheap to get and the main gear hop comes from recruit to BM gear, not BM gear to WH gear.

 

So pvp for a little bit and get the BM gear. Even losing for a couple hours will buy you a BM item and lets not pretend you're going to lose every game.

[Smashbrother]

Ur right i want a level playing field... It called player vs player that should be pitting raw skill mano e mano against another person. No stats purely cosmetic gear as rewards would be perfect. Gear and stats is the way of the past. New mmos are trying to bring the skill concept back to the genre... Look at the secret world as a perfect example!

 

Pvpers are just scared that they wont have their expertise and higher stats to hide behind anymore if tha goes. They wont be as good as they are now. Heaven forbid tey will actually have to try in pvp again. I remember a time before resilience (and pvp gear for that matter) in wow. It was amazing.

 

And yet you were not on the forums complaining about being a lvl 40+ playing against lvl 20s and below. There is more of a disparity between a level 49 fighting a level 10 than a recruit vs. WH.

 

Sounds like you enjoyed being the big fish in a little pond, but now your the little fish in a big pond and all you can do is QQ.

[Redbeaver]

Secret World is made by Funcom, which means it will be a broken piece of crap. For such a seasoned MMO vet, I would think you'd know this.

[Jetflair]

I don't think its just gear. I've leveled both Trooper and Jedi Knight to level 50.

 

Far as I've tested different talent trees in pvp I've noticed that until you get full sets above recruits gear it can be pointless to use 2/3 talent trees you have.

 

WIth Trooper it was useless to try to use Assault with when getting gear. Only way to get something done was for me playing tactician and running with Ion Shield. Tank would not scratch anything and Assault would not survive enough long.

 

With Jedi Knight tank spec is even more useless with less than battle master gear. Vigilance would be good but it lacks the burst big deal, it seems to scale well with good gear but not with beginners gear. Taking Force there seems to only viable option since crit and damage can rise lot faster to heights where you actually can hurt people.

 

So check the talent trees you choose when starting pvp they are NOT necessarily anyway equal or viable until you get full BM set.

[Astarica]

2 guys in Centurion gear can easily defeat 1 person in BM gear, and I'd say the difference between those two tiers is greater than the difference between Recruit and WH. Besides, even if not, you still had to put some effort to get full Centurion but certainly not Recruit.

 

We had a top player switch side and he played identical class as he did before (so no skill/class issue)and he was still putting up pretty decent numbers in Recruit gear compared to full WH. Of course those numbers are less but it's not like he went from top of list to bottom of list. He used to be top in damage and now he might be #3 during this transition period, and I see nothing wrong with that. Besides, the transition didn't last very long anyway.

[looneybinjim]

As a fresh 50 with full recruit gear... Pvp is still depressing. I really enjoyed pvp while leveling... But at 50 i did not enjoy going in and not even be able to put a dint in the opposition. Being facerolle in pvp because everyone out gears you is not fun and just a turnoff.

 

Pvp should be about skill... Having pvp gear that mitigates player dmg etc destroys that concept. As a fresh 50 im not expecting to faceroll people but a fair fight would be nice.

 

same old dead horse flogged again and again by people too lazy to play a week or so to get kitted out.

Edited May 29, 2012 by looneybinjim

[Blloodbane]

As a fresh 50 with full recruit gear... Pvp is still depressing. I really enjoyed pvp while leveling... But at 50 i did not enjoy going in and not even be able to put a dint in the opposition. Being facerolle in pvp because everyone out gears you is not fun and just a turnoff.

 

Pvp should be about skill... Having pvp gear that mitigates player dmg etc destroys that concept. As a fresh 50 im not expecting to faceroll people but a fair fight would be nice.

 

Go play Halo or Battfield, or Gears of War or some console PVP game if you want pure skill..

 

News Flash, MMO is about gear and if you think otherwise, your doing it wrong. It doesnt matter if its PVE or PVP...

 

Let me guess you just dinged 50 and should be able to do Hardmode Denova now as well?

[cycao]

I can honestly say this is so much better than the old system. You are guaranteed to get gear in this new system of gear grind which is now a time sink than anything. Having full champ gear and trying to get BM gear was praying you would get a token out of 20 bags which was over a week of grinding you could get nothing. I was on the BM grind for almost a month and when 1.2 hit I had 4 pieces which wore the result of buying most of the tokens with 1k commendations.

 

1.2 went live and within a week I was full BM. Its not that hard to do. One WH piece takes about a week of casual playing.