Daniel Erickson thinks X-Server LFG is last resort

[Senatsu]

I think we can all agree that this solution is the best compromise between the two. We have instant teleport and automated group queue, but no cross-server. Similar to how Aion's LFG system works.

[Bloodstealer]

You are just totally wrong.

How can you make such a wild accusation.. the very fact some are for it and some are against it, with both sides having viable reasons.. suggests noone can be totally wrong....

First of all did I never have a rude ninja, troll or dps meter nerd in any of my groups at Vanilla and TBC. If you did form a group you knew everyone that did apply. In that way you knew who you invite, so that those rude people never got in any groups.

OK on same server LFG I think I can see what your saying and to some extent I agree.. but its very valid for others to say that a X-Server LFG brings in many more players outside of your comfort zone and with 8 alts on every server (max 50 I think), then I really think keeping abreast of who you have in your grp starts to get a bit thin... the same can also be said for Same Server tools - it comes down to the uncontrollable factor - HUMANS!.. we are your best friends and your worst enemies all in one.. but when your sat on a dead server and you just want players to join you so you can finnaly run that flashpoint or Heroic 4+, the selective qualities we like to think we have start to wear thin and less attention given to it - cos we want to play the game not stand around spamming General Chat over and over for an hour or more

 

This did lead to the result, that they had to behave - after all they also wanted to play the game.

And you dont think the 100's and 1000's stuck on underpopulated servers dont want to reacxh out their local server or X-Server communities to "PLAY THE GAME" ... You have a few tools you can use, but its never going to be a 100% idiot or jerk proof for all the same reasons already stated above.. but that's all you can do... and to claim that all your grps will always have butterlfies and kisses rather than the odd A-Hole is simply not the case becuae by their very nature will always have that unknown element.... and I can tell ya now, you can also get the same kinda people in guild, channel, static groups, depending on what kinda day they ands you have had...

 

Also keep in mind, that the content must be adjusted to random groups now. This will lead to boring grind & zerg, like at every wow dungeon today. Tanks run in, mages nuke with AOE and 1 second later all mobs are dead. Not fun at all, so also this does affect those who dislike the tool and want to have fun without it.

The whole game will be adjusted so that it can be beaten in a pug, all those who form their own groups or play with friends have no content anymore.

Sorry I find this a tough one to accept.. just cos the game needs more group play and implements an LFG tool you think the game will water down the already carebear driven quest designs to accomadate PUG's.. NO, NO, NO - If anything it should be upscaled or a difficulty choice provided before entering....

Your idea that somehow quests become watered down because of randoms grps is simply boggling...

Dungeons, Quests, Raids etc simply loose the challenge factor because players get better, they gear better, they build better, they become aware of what works tactically and what doesn't.. that is not the fault of a PUG thats the fault of a game being designed lacking any random element... repetition just makes it all easier the more times you run it..... whether you run in PUG, Guild, Channel, Solo, Static.. that never changes... why do you think players learn how to solo a vast majority of the content in any MMO...

 

Second fact is, that everyone is forced to use the tool. It will give bonus rewards, it will make you queue as often as you want, no more insance locks.

How are you forced to use any kind of grouping tool... you have many options.. Guild run, Static Grp, Solo, Channel or yes a group finder... there is no forcing of anything upon anyone... and raids are on timers as are heroics / flashpoints so not sure what you mean... normal quests can be repeated anyhow so a group finder makes no differnence ... I am confused by your logic sorry... I think your just making noise for the sake of it without anything solid to base your assumptions on

At wow you MUST use it to be able to gather points, it wont be any different at Tor. Lets face it, the tool does only work if people get high profit by queueing for it, else no one would take that torture.

 

We are not playing WoW.. why are you basing everything off WoW..,... If you miss it so much, hop back over there.

I play DDO as my chosen MMO over the last 7 yrs... it has lots of great features, a great community and challenging mechanics and goals but it does not mean they would work or have the same effect in SWTOR... you need to consider the major factor we want any kind of LFG is to get the very simplest of rewards.. GROUP ACTION for dead server populations... of course players should use the tool as much as possible... what do you use it for in WoW or any MMO... the fact SWTOR lacks one to start with is the mind boggling fact I see....the very fact it doesn't forces players to spam general chat repetively to try and get grps to do things whilst competing with other General chat dross... I think you need to think through what it is your really trying to say here.. cos you lost me, seriously

Edited May 28, 2012 by Bloodstealer

[Mallorik]

That is a very common misconception "You aren't forced to use the tool". Actually we are. Indirectly, because 99% of the playerbase will be using it then the only way to get a group is to actually use it. And no, that doesn't mean 99% of the playerbase think it's good, it means that the playerbase can't be bothered to do it the hard way because they are lazy. We are human, we have always been trying to find quicker way to do things, except in this case it's destructive to the greater good. I'm almost completely sure you will not understand anything I have written here, but that's okay, I'm used to ignorant people by now.

 

In wow and rift now there are many people who dont just start with the lfg tool, i for one always lfm atleast once or twice before queing. I havent played wow for over a year so i dont know if thats still the trend there but in rift it was the easiest and quickest way to fill a group and considered pretty much common place.

 

People dont want an lfg tool because they are "lazy" they want one because putting a time sink barrier infront of doing something as menial as running a 4 man instance is STUPID and adds nothing to the game, only takes from it.

[EcrirTwyLar]

We are not playing WoW.. why are you basing everything off WoW..,... If you miss it so much, hop back over there.

I play DDO as my chosen MMO over the last 7 yrs... it has lots of great features, a great community and challenging mechanics and goals but it does not mean they would work or have the same effect in SWTOR... you need to consider the major factor we want any kind of LFG is to get the very simplest of rewards.. GROUP ACTION for dead server populations... of course players should use the tool as much as possible... what do you use it for in WoW or any MMO... the fact SWTOR lacks one to start with is the mind boggling fact I see....the very fact it doesn't forces players to spam general chat repetively to try and get grps to do things whilst competing with other General chat dross... I think you need to think through what it is your really trying to say here.. cos you lost me, seriously

 

Actually, if you liked DDO so much, why don't you go back to it. Many of us are using WoW as an example of what NOT to do. Don't get me wrong, I had a lot of fun playing there over the years, but that doesn't mean I want to turn SWTOR into WoW.

 

I think the Developers are doing the right thing. They need to try and fix the server population issues first. Then put in the non X-Server LFG tool in. If they think that wasn't enough, then add a X-Server option in the LFG tool. That way, everyone can choose for themselves whether or not they want to group with just people from their own server or people from other servers as well. If they don't like the queue times maybe they will choose to turn on the x-server option.

 

The problem is that these things take time. The developers are working on a LFG tool and everyone is in a panic because they want things fixed NOW. Unfortunately things aren't going to get fixed NOW. That is a fact that we all have to accept or move on. I'm going to wait it out and see what happens because I think this game has potential. I think Bioware has the ability to fix this game as long as they don't listen to the suits at EA and LA.

[kernelsanderz]

I agree the WoW community went downhill fast after LFG. Saw some of the worst behavior imagineable. Buuuuut.. it allowed you to get stuff done. You didn't have to fight tooth and nail to get a group.

 

I see people on my fleet desperately begging for a tank for x flashpoint and willing to pay up to y credits for one. Similar scenarios are happening on every server that isn't completely dead and it just shouldn't be.

 

My gf and I play a tank and healer and lo and behold we've had to fight to get DPS. The EASIEST role to fill. I've used my old TBC tactics looking up classes with the who feature and whispering potential level appropriate people and rarely even get a response. Thats simply unacceptable. Some server community huh? And some of you are fighting to preserve that?

 

Look if it comes down to either running a FP or not for the sake of preserving community I and many others would just prefer to run the dang instance. That's what it comes down to. Do you want to run the content or simply skip it cause you don't have the playerbase and tools to gather them together? Sometimes I just wanna get a run done w/o having to fight for DPS.

 

Cross server LFG plz kthx BW.

Edited May 28, 2012 by kernelsanderz

[Mallorik]

I would really like to know what anti cross server people are trying to accomplish, the obvious fact is that bioware will implement whatever it takes to let the majority of players get into flashpoints fast enough that they dont get discouraged, log off and eventually quit the game.

 

I can only see two options, cross server lfg or massive servers. they will go with one of those because lets face it, same server lfg has never worked, and with both of those options you lose what you are fighting for, a tight knit community that you can hold ninjas/a-holes accountable for their actions in.

[EcrirTwyLar]

I agree the WoW community went downhill fast after LFG. Saw some of the worst behavior imagineable. Buuuuut.. it allowed you to get stuff done. You didn't have to fight tooth and nail to get a group.

 

I see people on my fleet desperately begging for a tank for x flashpoint and willing to pay up to y credits for one. Similar scenarios are happening on every server that isn't completely dead and it just shouldn't be.

 

My gf and I play a tank and healer and lo and behold we've had to fight to get DPS. The EASIEST role to fill. I've used my old TBC tactics looking up classes with the who feature and whispering potentinal level appropriate people and rarely even get a response. Thats simply unacceptable. Some server community huh? And some of you are fighting to preserve that?

 

Look if it comes down to either running a FP or not for the sake of preserving community I and many others would just prefer to run the dang instance. That's what it comes down to. Do you want to run the content or simply skip it cause you don't have the playerbase and tools to gather them together? Sometimes I just wanna get a run done w/o having to fight for DPS.

 

Cross server LFG plz kthx BW.

 

Actually... Even though I hate to see a x-server tool. This is a good point. I have to admit that I've seen this as well. I do however think that the first step is for Bioware to try and fix the server populations.

 

*Edit*

Btw, anyone else notice that this game seems to have WAY more healers than most MMO's?

Edited May 28, 2012 by EcrirTwyLar

[Bloodstealer]

Actually, if you liked DDO so much, why don't you go back to it. Many of us are using WoW as an example of what NOT to do. Don't get me wrong, I had a lot of fun playing there over the years, but that doesn't mean I want to turn SWTOR into WoW.

 

I think the Developers are doing the right thing. They need to try and fix the server population issues first. Then put in the non X-Server LFG tool in. If they think that wasn't enough, then add a X-Server option in the LFG tool. That way, everyone can choose for themselves whether or not they want to group with just people from their own server or people from other servers as well. If they don't like the queue times maybe they will choose to turn on the x-server option.

 

The problem is that these things take time. The developers are working on a LFG tool and everyone is in a panic because they want things fixed NOW. Unfortunately things aren't going to get fixed NOW. That is a fact that we all have to accept or move on. I'm going to wait it out and see what happens because I think this game has potential. I think Bioware has the ability to fix this game as long as they don't listen to the suits at EA and LA.

 

Huh.. me thinks you might wanna read the bit where I said.. the features that DDO have or WoW might be good,but that does not mean they would have the same effect or even work in SWTOR... and actually I still still play DDO when I have time.... I am not the one advocating that every MMO should be a WoW or a DDO clone....

You might be trying to avoid WoW features becoming the new SWTOR way forward, as am I but some are hell bent on having an even bigger WoW clone..... and maybe read my previous postings.. you seem to be stating the same things I am... so not sure where your attitude came from !!

Edited May 28, 2012 by Bloodstealer

[vsalcedo]

Because then no one would use the local one. I don't necessarily agree with the devs on this one, but if they are dead set on creating some sort of server community than they can't give cross server options. I would be more in line with this philosophy if we were to condense servers dramatically so that servers actually could support such a community.

 

Some people don't want to play in a super packed server thought there is such a thing as a medium server where there are less annoying people. Guild and I are planning to do that and move out of Fatman because Fatmans too packed.

[Drakkip]

In wow and rift now there are many people who dont just start with the lfg tool, i for one always lfm atleast once or twice before queing. I havent played wow for over a year so i dont know if thats still the trend there but in rift it was the easiest and quickest way to fill a group and considered pretty much common place.

 

People dont want an lfg tool because they are "lazy" they want one because putting a time sink barrier infront of doing something as menial as running a 4 man instance is STUPID and adds nothing to the game, only takes from it.

 

I remember in several games either sitting at the zone line waiting for a - Healer, Tank, CC-class, OR having to travel back to the main "hub" and spam for minutes to nearly an hour to fill that one role you needed filled. You would often spend more time just trying to put the group together and keep it together than you would doing content. I have yet to see a compelling reason as to how not having an LFD adds to the game or builds the community.

 

I'm with you 100% on this one. Time sinks in front of doing dungeons are stupid and add nothing to the game. Heck I know, let's turn off all forms of zone chat and whispers, so the only way to talk to someone is if you are within close proximity of them and they can hear you in /say <rolls eyes> Might as well add in bare feet and broken glass too why stop short now...

[EcrirTwyLar]

Huh.. me thinks you might wanna read the bit where I said.. the features that DDO have or WoW might be good,but that does not mean they would have the same effect or even work in SWTOR... and actually I still still play DDO when I have time.... I am not the one advocating that every MMO should be a WoW or a DDO clone....

You might be trying to avoid WoW features becoming the new SWTOR way forward, as am I but some are hell bent on having an even bigger WoW clone..... and maybe read my previous postings.. you seem to be stating the same things I am... so not sure where your attitude came from !!

 

Because you were using the whole "If you like it so much, go back there" argument. Which is pointless and doesn't contribute to the debate.

[Mallorik]

Actually... Even though I hate to see a x-server tool. This is a good point. I have to admit that I've seen this as well. I do however think that the first step is for Bioware to try and fix the server populations.

 

I dont think you will find anyone pro or agaisnt x server lfg tool that wont agree they need to not just try but to fix the server pops no matter what else they do.

 

My only fear with them "trying" a same server lfg tool first is that they are already way behind schedule, rift barely pulled out of its nose dive with its x-server tool and it was in much faster. And its not like they dont have examples to look at to figure out if a same server tool will work or not.

 

I would just hate to see another Vanguard, that game was great, but it crashed and burned and took them a long time to fix it all. They did fix it and it is really one of the best mmos out there , but it never did recover its players.

[Phinion]

Why don't they give you two options. LFG (same server only) and LFG (Xserver). Why they have to settle for one or the other is beyond me. More options>less options

 

Isn't that what an MMO is supposed to be about? Choices.

[gorstram]

I haven't gone through all 14 pages of this thread, but the reason I support an X-server tool is:

 

1) I'm a DPS player. We are by in large, the highest population of player type on the server. Statistically speaking trying to get into an FP group on a limited pop server is an exercise in futility.

 

2) I am a PUG player, I do not have a guild. My play time does not make me active enough for any active guild, and joining a less active guild makes it about as impossible to get into a group as I stated in point #1.

 

3) I am interested in getting stuff done. It's great to hang out and talk to people in general, crack jokes, bust balls, etc, but I play an MMO for the tangible benefits it provides, in this case, gear. It makes no sense to sit around waiting for an hour and a half to do one 20-30 minute flash point.

 

An x-server LFG tool cuts a 1.5-2 hour wait down to about 15-20 minutes depending on how large the player pool is. I am willing to guess that there are a fair number of players like myself out there, and that even players who are not like me, would be pleased at swallowing the occasional bad experience in order to avoid having to waste one's entire play time to get into only one flash point, or none at all if one is playing during non-peak hours.

[Skidrowbro]

Stop playing MMORPG's if all your worried about is time. There are a lot of other MMO's to choose from. Why do people need to plague every game with these so called "quality of life" elements?

[Limedust]

Stop playing MMORPG's if all your worried about is time. There are a lot of other MMO's to choose from. Why do people need to plague every game with these so called "quality of life" elements?

 

So they get a game they feel is worth playing?

[Mallorik]

Stop playing MMORPG's if all your worried about is time. There are a lot of other MMO's to choose from. Why do people need to plague every game with these so called "quality of life" elements?

 

Yeah go away, we dont need you hundreds of thousands of players who dont have time to waste 2 hours to find a group for something as menial as a 4 man flahspoint! we will do just fine with us super dorks who live in our moms basements and have nothing better to do than play an mmoRPG 10 hours a day.

 

And by the way, what do you think RPG stands for, Pointless time barrier to play the game? cause i cant get the letters to match up.

Edited May 28, 2012 by Mallorik

[Gungan]

We are not playing WoW.. why are you basing everything off WoW..,... If you miss it so much, hop back over there.

I play DDO as my chosen MMO over the last 7 yrs... it has lots of great features, a great community and challenging mechanics and goals but it does not mean they would work or have the same effect in SWTOR... you need to consider the major factor we want any kind of LFG is to get the very simplest of rewards.. GROUP ACTION for dead server populations... of course players should use the tool as much as possible... what do you use it for in WoW or any MMO... the fact SWTOR lacks one to start with is the mind boggling fact I see....the very fact it doesn't forces players to spam general chat repetively to try and get grps to do things whilst competing with other General chat dross... I think you need to think through what it is your really trying to say here.. cos you lost me, seriously

 

Pretty sure people base it on WoW because according to the devs' own admissions in writing that they borrow heavily from WoW.

[Skidrowbro]

Yeah go away, we dont need you hundreds of thousands of players who dont have time to waste 2 hours to find a group for something as menial as a 4 man flahspoint! we will do just fine with us super dorks who live in our moms basements and have nothing better to do than play an mmoRPG 10 hours a day.

 

It has nothing to do with how many hours people play. It has everything to do with the RPG aspect of the game. Does WoW even have a story anymore? Do people even know why they are going into dungeons in WoW anymore? I raided in WoW because my quest lines pointed me in that direction not becasue I wanted to show off my epeen with dps meters and how fast we could complete the raid.

[Drakkip]

I agree the WoW community went downhill fast after LFG. Saw some of the worst behavior imagineable. Buuuuut.. it allowed you to get stuff done. You didn't have to fight tooth and nail to get a group.

 

 

While I agree with most of your points, I often hear how the community went downhill fast. Is this suggesting that good natured people suddenly lost their minds and went crazy? I mean from all appearances you are a rational person, are you saying you went crazy and became a ninja looter or something? I highly doubt that, just as I higly doubt other good people went crazy as well.

 

In terms of the X-server LFD, what I noticed was that I would run 1-3 dungeons per night before LFD, and out of that about a couple of times a week I would run into some moron in the group. After LFD I would run more like 5-10 dungeons a night and it seemed like every other day I was running into some moron. In my mind it had more to do with the fact that the frequency that I was running content increased, so did the frequency of my exposure to other people ergo, I was running into more morons by virtue of doing more.

[Bloodstealer]

Stop playing MMORPG's if all your worried about is time. There are a lot of other MMO's to choose from. Why do people need to plague every game with these so called "quality of life" elements?

 

Much understanding you lack..

Quality of life means different things to differnt players, just because your perfect world doesnt need one for others its pretty important... epsecially when getting a grp at all in SWTOR is a serious time sync for a large proportion of the game community and has been for months now... unless of course your gunna turn round and say thats all pie in the sky as well.

[Gungan]

It has nothing to do with how many hours people play. It has everything to do with the RPG aspect of the game. Does WoW even have a story anymore? Do people even know why they are going into dungeons in WoW anymore? I raided in WoW because my quest lines pointed me in that direction not becasue I wanted to show off my epeen with dps meters and how fast we could complete the raid.

 

Yes, actually. WoW's story is better now than it ever was.

[Ratajack]

Yeah go away, we dont need you hundreds of thousands of players who dont have time to waste 2 hours to find a group for something as menial as a 4 man flahspoint! we will do just fine with us super dorks who live in our moms basements and have nothing better to do than play an mmoRPG 10 hours a day.

 

If you want to play a "Don't make me work for anything, I want it all now." game, I'm sure there are plenty of them out there. There are those of us who do not wish to see this game dumbed down to the point of some other games. A little effort and time spent will not kill anyone, but getting the "entitled" masses to understand that is impossible.

[Senatsu]

While I agree with most of your points, I often hear how the community went downhill fast. Is this suggesting that good natured people suddenly lost their minds and went crazy? I mean from all appearances you are a rational person, are you saying you went crazy and became a ninja looter or something? I highly doubt that, just as I higly doubt other good people went crazy as well.

 

In terms of the X-server LFD, what I noticed was that I would run 1-3 dungeons per night before LFD, and out of that about a couple of times a week I would run into some moron in the group. After LFD I would run more like 5-10 dungeons a night and it seemed like every other day I was running into some moron. In my mind it had more to do with the fact that the frequency that I was running content increased, so did the frequency of my exposure to other people ergo, I was running into more morons by virtue of doing more.

 

That is very true, it does increase your exposure by a great deal, but you also bring up another good point. From a game designer and dev stand point, a x-server automated LFG tool let's people get groups fast, PUG groups, which means content will have to be dumbed down extremely or else people will whine and complain like there's no tomorrow. Which in turn means content will be even easier to do and thus faster, allowing people to get bored from the content a lot faster than they would otherwise. I'm not saying that this wouldn't happen for a single-server LFG system, but the exposure of idiots with a x-server LFG tool is immense compared to single-server.

[JeramieCrowe]

While I agree with most of your points, I often hear how the community went downhill fast. Is this suggesting that good natured people suddenly lost their minds and went crazy? I mean from all appearances you are a rational person, are you saying you went crazy and became a ninja looter or something? I highly doubt that, just as I higly doubt other good people went crazy as well.

 

When guns were invented, suddenly there was a spike in shooting deaths. Does this mean good-natured people suddenly lost their minds and went crazy?

 

No, it means the roaches in the woodwork now had a means to come out in full force.

 

Does this mean, though, that guns are the problem? Nope. But it does mean that some restrictions and control need to be in place.