Powertech Pyrotech deserve the HUGE nerf

[The_Bucket]

So i've skimmed through and come to 2 conclusions from this thread.

 

90% of people who don't play PT's seem they are OP.

100% who do play PT, say they are not.

 

Got it.. Thanks

[xBloodcrazed]

Yes, sticky grenade possibly has higher damage potential than assault plastique, though as an assault your job is to burst people down first and foremost. There are builds that forgo assault plastique for it however.

Personally, if I want an aoe build, I go for tactics anyhow, which I run most of the time now.

 

Don't try to berate me on a class that I play since day 1, you know full well assault doesn't use sticky grenade often, that's the spec we're talking about here.

 

Yes its situational just like all aoe, but if you aren't using sticky/MV/pulse cannon when people are grouped you're missing out since thats amazing burst dmg on all targets for only 3 abilities plus it doesnt hurt your single target burst rotation cept for AP.

Edited June 3, 2012 by xBloodcrazed

[Gidoru]

So i've skimmed through and come to 2 conclusions from this thread.

 

90% of people who don't play PT's seem they are OP.

100% who do play PT, say they are not.

 

Got it.. Thanks

 

That sums it up.

Anyone remember the Operatives are OP threads? Those 100% of ops said killing people in 3 seconds was completely fine and balanced for the same reasons.

 

1. Lack of survivability

2. "Its all they have"

 

Its like every single person on this forum that used to play an OP rerolled a Powertech and are using the same excuses.

 

Pity that the non terrible FOTM OPs that stuck with the class still destroy people in about 8 seconds, despite bads on the forums crying that they were overnerfed.

Edited June 3, 2012 by Gidoru

[Kirin]

That sums it up.

Anyone remember the Operatives are OP threads? Those 100% of ops said killing people in 3 seconds was completely fine and balanced for the same reasons.

 

1. Lack of survivability

2. "Its all they have"

 

Its like every single person on this forum that used to play an OP rerolled a Powertech and are using the same excuses.

 

Pity that the non terrible FOTM OPs that stuck with the class still destroy people in about 8 seconds, despite bads on the forums crying that they were overnerfed.

 

Dude, you still get killed by Ops? What class do you play? o.O

[Gidoru]

Dude, you still get killed by Ops? What class do you play? o.O

 

I would tell you but you'd just report my post.

Edited June 3, 2012 by Gidoru

[dcgregorya]

That sums it up.

Anyone remember the Operatives are OP threads? Those 100% of ops said killing people in 3 seconds was completely fine and balanced for the same reasons.

 

1. Lack of survivability

2. "Its all they have"

 

Its like every single person on this forum that used to play an OP rerolled a Powertech and are using the same excuses.

 

Pity that the non terrible FOTM OPs that stuck with the class still destroy people in about 8 seconds, despite bads on the forums crying that they were overnerfed.

 

If they did its because the nerf crybabies neutered the class. It is the hands down worst class in the game right now. Their 'stealth gap closer' relies on them being out of combat. As does their opener. Which means they can only apply full potential damage once every 2 minutes or so and when they do apply it, it is not enough damage to kill most competant people who will just blow cooldowns, survive the opener and proceed to 5 shot the operative.

 

I have a BM (post 1.2) scoundrel and he's by far the most gimped character I have. I can do 'ok' with him but I spend most of my time trying to get out of combat and doing everything I can to not die because their burst DPS without stealth is awful. I have to play 10x better than everyone else just to place mediocre on the leaderboard at the end of the match.

 

You're exactly the kind of baddie that ruins the forums by complaining about every other class being OP when the problem is that you're just not good enough to do 1vs1 combat. The type of person that comes onto the forums and complains about other people using tactics because you can't be bothered to time your stuns or debuffs or kite and you'll only be happy once every class besides yours is borderline unplayable.

Edited June 3, 2012 by dcgregorya

[Gidoru]

If they did its because the nerf crybabies neutered the class. It is the hands down worst class in the game right now. Their 'stealth gap closer' relies on them being out of combat. As does their opener. Which means they can only apply full potential damage once every 2 minutes or so and when they do apply it, it is not enough damage to kill most competant people who will just blow cooldowns, survive the opener and proceed to 5 shot the operative.

 

I have a BM (post 1.2) scoundrel and he's by far the most gimped character I have. I can do 'ok' with him but I spend most of my time trying to get out of combat and doing everything I can to not die because their burst DPS without stealth is awful. I have to play 10x better than everyone else just to place mediocre on the leaderboard at the end of the match.

 

Sorry but an OP on my server, who also happens to be one of the best PvPers easily kills most people in about 8 seconds.(Yes people inl WH/BM, No not terrible players) Yes he does die pretty quickly. Yes i think it would be better if they toned down Ops burst in exchange for rebalancing them with added survivability and or something like Shadow Step from WoW. But if you're going to deny that OPs still dont have insane burst, you simply dont know what you're doing or are playing agaisnt terrible Ops.

 

I have a BM (post 1.2) scoundrel and he's by far the most gimped character I have.

If you dont have a min/maxed remodded and augmented Op with WH gear your Op is hardly optimized and therefore you probably cant do the type of burst you should be doing.

 

If i make a new character with no legacy perks and just full BM i dont really expect to destroy people who have all the buffs, all the perks datacrons and WH gear. Gear and stats matter.

Edited June 3, 2012 by Gidoru

[dcgregorya]

Sorry but an OP on my server, who also happens to be one of the best PvPers easily kills most people in about 8 seconds.(Yes people inl WH/BM, No not terrible players) Yes he does die pretty quickly. Yes i think it would be better if they toned down Ops burst in exchange for rebalancing them with added survivability and or something like Shadow Step from WoW. But if you're going to deny that OPs still dont have insane burst, you simply dont know what you're doing or are playing agaisnt terrible Ops.

 

 

If you dont have a min/maxed remodded and augmented Op with WH gear your Op is hardly optimized and therefore you probably cant do the type of burst you should be doing.

 

Best PVP'er on the server and I'd bet dollars to donuts he gets outdamaged by a level 20 sorc. I know because I've been the scoundrel and I've been the level 20 sorc. You lose tons and tons of damage being in the respawn half the match or waiting to get out of combat or chasing after people that move faster than you because you don't have any gap closers or speed buffs. Can my scoundrel beat scrubs? All day long but the class is undeniably crippled and worthless after having been nerfed 3 times back to back without any love whatsoever.

Edited June 3, 2012 by dcgregorya

[The_Bucket]

That sums it up.

Anyone remember the Operatives are OP threads? Those 100% of ops said killing people in 3 seconds was completely fine and balanced for the same reasons.

 

1. Lack of survivability

2. "Its all they have"

 

Its like every single person on this forum that used to play an OP rerolled a Powertech and are using the same excuses.

 

Pity that the non terrible FOTM OPs that stuck with the class still destroy people in about 8 seconds, despite bads on the forums crying that they were overnerfed.

 

Well I have a severe lack of survivability against 2 PT's lol

[dcgregorya]

If i make a new character with no legacy perks and just full BM i dont really expect to destroy people who have all the buffs, all the perks datacrons and WH gear. Gear and stats matter.

 

Ah I see. So as an operative I should get fully augmented WH gear to kill scrubs and still spend half the match in the respawn. Clearly they need a nerf.

[Agooz]

That sums it up.

Anyone remember the Operatives are OP threads? Those 100% of ops said killing people in 3 seconds was completely fine and balanced for the same reasons.

 

1. Lack of survivability

2. "Its all they have"

 

Its like every single person on this forum that used to play an OP rerolled a Powertech and are using the same excuses.

 

Pity that the non terrible FOTM OPs that stuck with the class still destroy people in about 8 seconds, despite bads on the forums crying that they were overnerfed.

 

Obviously, you're one of those that QQd about Operatives and exaggerated just as much as other clueless QQers to the point where Operatives got so nerfed and now at the bottom of the food chain, and trying to do the same thing over again. The same people that QQd about Mercs, and now doing it to PTs, Marauders, Assassins. No AC is EVER safe from your type.

 

For god's sake BW, hire people to play the game full time instead of listening to exaggerated QQs. Were there ever class balance issues? Sure, but none of the drastic nerfs were EVER warranted to any AC. I swear it's people that come on these forums to complain about classes without knowing their mechanics that ruin this game.

[Gidoru]

Ah I see. So as an operative I should get fully augmented WH gear to kill scrubs and still spend half the match in the respawn. Clearly they need a nerf.

 

Or you should have comparable gear /stats to the people you are killing. If you cant kill people that undergear you its a problem with you not your class sorry.

[Gidoru]

Sure, but none of the drastic nerfs were EVER warranted to any AC.

Yes because Operatives killing people in 3-4 seconds within their opening stun was clearly fair and balanced.

Mercs only having to spam 1 button to kill most people and deal insane damage was also pretty fair and skillful. Get real.

 

Killing someone in a handful of seconds to the point that they can barely react and have no chance to counter what you're doing is neither balance nor is it fun. Spamming only 1 button to kill someone is no better.

 

Clearly you're one of those kids that just rolls every FOTM burst class because you fail utterly when not playing one.

Edited June 3, 2012 by Gidoru

[Jerro]

I wouldnt mind if my rng burst was toned down for more consistent dps, but then i think the advanced class probably need some survival tools and maybe a "oh crap" button.

[Agooz]

Yes because Operatives killing people in 3-4 seconds within their opening stun was clearly fair and balanced.

Mercs only having to spam 1 button to kill most people and deal insane damage was also pretty fair and skillful. Get real.

 

Killing someone in a handful of seconds to the point that they can barely react and have no chance to counter what you're doing is neither balance nor is it fun. Spamming only 1 button to kill someone is no better.

 

Clearly you're one of those kids that just rolls every FOTM burst class because you fail utterly when not playing one.

 

I said there were some balancing issues. But nerfing a class based on the exaggerated complaints led to making them awful.

[Jarfunkz]

If pyro/assault is nerfed, the other trees need a buff.

 

Also, you need to modify healing as well.

Next, you need to nerf the damage of mara, sniper, and tanksin.

Decrease the survivability of mara/tanksin

 

All of you can complain all you want about pyro/assault, but mara/tanksin are still far more op than pt/vg wishes it could be. With the way healing is in this game, there needs to be damage dealing classes.

 

A nerf should constitute the game as a whole, not because individuals can not figure out how to stay 10m away from a certain class.

[The_Bucket]

If pyro/assault is nerfed, the other trees need a buff.

 

Also, you need to modify healing as well.

Next, you need to nerf the damage of mara, sniper, and tanksin.

Decrease the survivability of mara/tanksin

 

All of you can complain all you want about pyro/assault, but mara/tanksin are still far more op than pt/vg wishes it could be. With the way healing is in this game, there needs to be damage dealing classes.

 

A nerf should constitute the game as a whole, not because individuals can not figure out how to stay 10m away from a certain class.

 

Yes because tanks should find ways to stand 10 meters from PT's... THAT'S the solution!!!

 

Wow.. Anything to protect something that is obviously inconsistently broken.

[Eszi]

Yes because tanks should find ways to stand 10 meters from PT's... THAT'S the solution!!!

 

Wow.. Anything to protect something that is obviously inconsistently broken.

 

Get used to it.

If it's broken in my favor = it's fine

[Jarfunkz]

Yes because tanks should find ways to stand 10 meters from PT's... THAT'S the solution!!!

 

Wow.. Anything to protect something that is obviously inconsistently broken.

 

You mentioned tank, which means that hib/rail hit is going to be reduced with the shield generator...

 

Next, there are these things called tactics... if you find yourself within 10m of a pyro... stun city baby. The cool thing about tactics, is that good ones, like this one, works.

 

Just go back to your game and mash buttons and get mad because you can't figure things out... then come on the forum and complain about how you can not cope with the fact you get killed by a class that half the classes counter this one fairly well. mara/sent counters well, tanksin, tank guardian, offensive op/sc, gs/snip...

 

Tactics seem to elude just about everyone.

[Sharee]

A nerf should constitute the game as a whole, not because individuals can not figure out how to stay 10m away from a certain class.

 

You do realize that the majority of classes have to stay within 10m of their target to function, right?

[Jarfunkz]

You do realize that the majority of classes have to stay within 10m of their target to function, right?

 

There is a time to be within 10m and a time to not... when you have your major rotation down, including dcd's... you stay away. It is called putting yourself in the best situation to win. Don't act like EVERY class do not have abilties to impede/defeat/evade a pyro/assault.

 

But there is a solution beyond this, it is called team work. This whole 1v1 thing is not a good way to balance classes. Besides, pyro/assault isn't the top 1v1... mara/sent and sin/shadow (both of whom primarily 10m classes) are much better 1v1. Sad part is that both classes also have 2x the utility as pt/vg as well.

[The_Bucket]

You mentioned tank, which means that hib/rail hit is going to be reduced with the shield generator...

 

Next, there are these things called tactics... if you find yourself within 10m of a pyro... stun city baby. The cool thing about tactics, is that good ones, like this one, works.

 

Just go back to your game and mash buttons and get mad because you can't figure things out... then come on the forum and complain about how you can not cope with the fact you get killed by a class that half the classes counter this one fairly well. mara/sent counters well, tanksin, tank guardian, offensive op/sc, gs/snip...

 

Tactics seem to elude just about everyone.

 

Oh wait.. So you mean I can use Force Stasis to delay you before you crit me for 4k of yellow damage which shields do not block or absorb?

 

You should learn all classes before making accusations. I have a PT as well, and if any class is easy mode faceroll 3 button rotation it's a PT. I have to wait for a 9sec cool down to use one of my best ability's.. 30 seconds for the other.

 

You can simply just spam your's and critical inconsistently w/ relics popped for crazy amounts of dmg. So what happens when resolve is full and you can't stun the PT who has been kept up by a healer that you can't kill because your Sent's get melted from the two PT assist train.. Although, we can't kill the "squishy" PT's because we have to keep range on them, and waste our stuns on the PT's and not the healer so we don't get face melted for 20k dmg in 5 seconds by 2 PT's. Your logic is flawed, and it's being proven right now.

 

My argument is valid because I actually play the two classes i'm disputing. You just defend the PT saying he's not broke when 90% of the population of people who don't play one think it is.

 

The best part about your argument is you are telling Melee classes to keep range on a class that can accel at range or close quarters. Do you not see an issue with that statement or just being naive?

 

Like I said. PT's are strong and if the did something to metigate their long range and short range abilities, and perhaps make their damage more consistent like the other classes running around then it wouldn't be an issue.

[KBSIP]

You do realize that the majority of classes have to stay within 10m of their target to function, right?

 

what classes MUST stay in 10 meters?

 

Marauders: capable of going toe to toe with powertechs in a straight DPS fight, always interesting, hard to predict winner

 

Assassins: DPS assassins are currently UP trees that need a buff when they look at messing with the tanking spec, many consider tanking spec OP, but ATM its their only highly viable tree. tanksins do rather well against pyro PT's

 

Operatives: if the operative opens from stealth, its a very very interesting fight, the operative can win if well played. If detected pre opener the operative is dead, but that's not a pyro thing, early detection is the bane of the operative from any AC.

 

Juggernauts: talking DPS here, I've never had the joy of fighting a DPS jugg/guardian. only tank specs on my server, more info on this appreciated.

 

tank classes (juggernaut and powertech): jugg and PT tanks can hold out against a PT matching cooldown for cooldown, though they will eventually be burned down. I've had quite a few close fights with a Jugg friend dueling, but that was for funsies and neither of us really gave it our all.

 

other powertechs: my personal favorite fights in the game, i LOVE beating other powertech DPS, pyro in particular. always an interesting fight, always very fast paced. haven't yet gotten to face off against a full AP/tactics tree, but I'm looking forward to it.

 

 

I don't have much for ranged classes, whenever I run into them I've ussually got the drop on em. getting the drop on a ranged class tends to = dead ranged class for the most part, though snipers are god awful to try and gank even with a surprise attack, very effective class, the only ones on my server seem to also be very good players. mercenaries and commandos I just feel bad for, pretty much each one i run in to is arsenal, and one interrupt shuts down their major DPS. their KB is their only real gap-maker too, with no mobility to help them out after a stun. I really really really think they need to add more utility and snares/roots to mercenaries in general. Sorcerers, well, its a spectrum. undergeared people melt, its hard to find a geared sorc on my server. My friend has one, but we've only fought in WZ's, usually with me picking him off after a team fight while he's low on health and I've just medpacced. I'll get around to dueling him and figuring out some stuff.

 

 

OVerall, all of the above is just 1v1 fighting, which ISNT how you balance warzones (teams are 8v8, almost never boils down to 1v1 fighting on perfectly even terms).

 

oh, while we're on this, the absolute most absofrickenlutely annoying class to try to burn down is an operative healer thanks to health reserves of instant casts and the abiltiy to cleanse my burning DoTs. They're probably the alt I'll level as a healer since they can be played very similar to the highly mobile pyro spec.

[The_Bucket]

There is a time to be within 10m and a time to not... when you have your major rotation down, including dcd's... you stay away. It is called putting yourself in the best situation to win. Don't act like EVERY class do not have abilties to impede/defeat/evade a pyro/assault.

 

But there is a solution beyond this, it is called team work. This whole 1v1 thing is not a good way to balance classes. Besides, pyro/assault isn't the top 1v1... mara/sent and sin/shadow (both of whom primarily 10m classes) are much better 1v1. Sad part is that both classes also have 2x the utility as pt/vg as well.

 

I see what you're doing now.. You are now defending the PT by saying it's a team based game. So what happens when there is 3 PT's and one healer? How is that team worked assembled?

 

There is a reason why my server alone went from 1-2 PT's a WZ to 2-3 in weeks. Who needs survivability when you can have a dedicated healer and just melt who groups in 1 minute. I would much rather fight against 2 mara's then even one fully surged PT.

 

I'm done with this thread though. Blind will lead the blind and defend their class at all costs no matter how many times you contradict them.

 

There is video's of PT DPS PvP all over youtube and you can see them hitting a whole 3 button rotation w/ the occasional AoE DfO ability w/ relics.

[KBSIP]

follow up:

 

here's a few fixes I think powertech players and general players would be okay with. I'm not going beyond these:

 

1) treat railshot the way the finisher on mercs is treated, only usable on opponents suffering from one of YOUR DoT's / stuns. prevents ranged openers from pyro teams being unreasonable, as they each have to apply a DoT, and then each put up their railshot only once their DoT is up on their target.

 

2) make the DoT from CGC a physical effect, and thus cleanable by all healers/cleanse abilities.

 

3) make the cleanse apply an immunity to the cleansed DoT effect for up to half of its cooldown (just going off the top of my head here), to prevent instant reapplications and to force most burned GCD's reapplying. <- don't think this one will work very well because other classes are DoT reliant (anni marauders, sorcs, etc).