Powertech Pyrotech deserve the HUGE nerf

[MobiusZero]

So what I am gathering from this, is that PT's seemingly get shredded by Maras with ease constantly, and are always dying every WZ, and not getting awesome DPS.

 

And I'm sick of all this crap about you being tied to "melee range." I play a Lethality Op, which actually DOES need melee range for its burst (10m /= melee range.), and I STILL fight at range half the time in a WZ (30m). Why? Because I'm squishy myself, and can't afford to run in and risk getting focused. Not being able to use 1 of my burst abilities from range does not suddenly make me worthless, considering the fact I have plenty of other skills at my disposal (less than PT, actually.).

 

Then, when the opportunity is right, I can go in and burst with Cull.

 

You'll get absolutely NO sympathy from me in this regard, because my class has the same weaknesses as you, but does not have the overpowered burst that you do, from range (10m = range.).

 

Can a Mara shred me? Absolutely. Can I shred a mara even more easily than they can shred me, if he's not attacking me personally? Absolutely. Welcome to multiplayer WZ's, where 1v1 skills aren't what makes a class overpowered!

 

When I get a mara trying to 1v1 me, I'll just stun and run. I don't just stand there and try to take them on toe to toe, because that's not my role. Though if there's a skill difference, I certainly can.

 

The point is, just because 1 or 2 classes is able to beat you 1v1, does not mean that you are not overpowered. Even if you die a couple times per game to Maras, you're still going to, most of the time, be able to use your crazy burst damage without issues.

 

And as I said earlier...just because Maras are OP, doesn't mean PT's can't be OP.

[Varicite]

So Sorcs that die face tanking melees should be buffed due to their under performance?

 

I don't think BW will be changing PTs based on l2p issues with the marauder player base.

 

Eh, my fiancee plays a Marauder, and she's very good at it. We duel every day, all day, and I use a spec that (to the best of my knowledge) no one has ever really tried before. It's not that Maras are weak, it's just like I said, they don't know how to fight me thanks to the influx of Pyro PTs.

 

But yeah, I doubt that they will nerf PT on the basis that Advanced Prototype is OP, lol.

[TapSumBatt]

You do realize that NONE of the melee ACs are able to be interrupted during their main channels?

 

Warriors can't be interrupted from Ravage anymore.

 

Assassins can protect their Force Lightning channel.

 

Powertechs can protect their Flamethrower channel.

 

I don't think that Bioware would suddenly change their design philosophy and make PT depend on an interruptable channel for a main ability.

 

BTW, Pyro still uses Unload, which can be interrupted, as well as Death From Above.

 

There's a big difference between Can protect your activation and Does not have need to protect your activation, because you don't use any.

 

If you did not now, here is a list of the core abilities of Pyro dps:

 

Flame burst

Inc missile

Rail Gun

Rocket Punch

TD

 

All those are instants and most likely 99% of any PT/VG's dps. Unload? Sure, if you wanna get fancy every now and then. Combustible Gas does an insane amount of damage but is simply the stance - more skill involved.

 

Btw, typing in color doesn't make your opinion more valid, you only look like you're in dire need of attention

[Twor]

You know that merc can be pyro too, right?

 

1,5 secs power shot, channeled unload, 1,5 secs fusion missile.

 

Like stated. Merc is a stationarly second line class. Vanguard is a frontline class. You are comparing two completely different working classes here.

Also this thread is about PT pyros.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Twor

[TapSumBatt]

Like stated. Merc is a stationarly second line class. Vanguard is a frontline class. You are comparing two completely different working classes here.

Also this thread is about PT pyros.

 

Where does it say that?

[Hethroin]

Where does it say that?

 

In the title.

[TapSumBatt]

In the title.

 

Duh, about line roles.

[Twor]

Where does it say that?

 

If you mean where does it say which role the classes are, the Vanguard is well... he guards the van. Frontline soldier is the name of the german class for example.

The mercs funcinoality is based around channeled abilities. Channeled abilities are only rely viable from the second row. Some classes are balanced around stealth, some around moving, some around 2nd line casting.

You don't expect a sorc to be standing in the front either?

 

It doesn't "say so" anywhere, its something you see when you look how the classes are played and designed for..

 

If you meant the third point, the thread is titled Powertech pyrotech

Edited May 30, 2012 by Twor

[TapSumBatt]

If you mean where does it say which role the classes are, the Vanguard is well... he guards the van. Frontline soldier is the name of the german class for example.

The mercs funcinoality is based around channeled abilities. Channeled abilities are only rely viable from the second row. Some classes are balanced around stealth, some around moving, some around 2nd line casting.

You don't expect a sorc to be standing in the front either?

 

It doesn't "say so" anywhere, its something you see when you look how the classes are played and designed for..

 

If you meant the third point, the thread is titled Powertech pyrotech

 

So you mean that is your personal opinion? No, I was looking for a title pointer

[Twor]

So you mean that is your personal opinion? No, I was looking for a title pointer

 

More like common knowledge.

 

http://www.torhead.com/class/cx6MWii/bounty-hunter

Edited May 30, 2012 by Twor

[Varicite]

There's a big difference between Can protect your activation and Does not have need to protect your activation, because you don't use any.

 

If you did not now, here is a list of the core abilities of Pyro dps:

 

Flame burst

Inc missile

Rail Gun

Rocket Punch

TD

 

All those are instants and most likely 99% of any PT/VG's dps. Unload? Sure, if you wanna get fancy every now and then. Combustible Gas does an insane amount of damage but is simply the stance - more skill involved.

 

Btw, typing in color doesn't make your opinion more valid, you only look like you're in dire need of attention

 

I've played a Powertech since early January, I know what abilities I use. : )

 

Unload is a good button to push when at range, and it's buffed by Pyro talents and will usually proc the CGC, like you said. Sure, some PTs don't use it, but I think they are simply gimping their potential, as it can be useful in some situations.

 

Death From Above is also pretty hard-hitting, and should likely be interrupted early on if you get the chance. Otherwise, just move out of the circle.

 

Also, I'm sorry that you hate colour. I don't.

[Daecollo]

I've played a Powertech since early January, I know what abilities I use. : )

 

Unload is a good button to push when at range, and it's buffed by Pyro talents and will usually proc the CGC, like you said. Sure, some PTs don't use it, but I think they are simply gimping their potential, as it can be useful in some situations.

 

Death From Above is also pretty hard-hitting, and should likely be interrupted early on if you get the chance. Otherwise, just move out of the circle.

 

Also, I'm sorry that you hate colour. I don't.

 

No good Powertech should ever touch the unload spell, Rapid Shots is same damage/can proc Pyro's Burn.

Death From Above sucks now, Its range makes it useless/the ammo cost is too much to what little damage it has, Its mostly used to prevent people from capping.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Daecollo

[Varicite]

No good Powertech should ever touch the unload spell.

Death From Above sucks now.

 

Okay, you can continue not using them. : )

 

I'll continue using them at range when RS is on cd. I don't like to put myself in harm's way unnecessarily, especially when I can easily do the job w/ Unload or DFA.

 

/shrug

 

Rapid Shots doesn't do as much damage as Unload for me, and definitely not as much as DFA. (You're right that I use DFA more as a "get out of this spot" move, but it's decent damage if they won't move)

Edited May 30, 2012 by Varicite

[Twor]

Okay, you can continue not using them. : )

 

I'll continue using them at range when RS is on cd. I don't like to put myself in harm's way unnecessarily, especially when I can easily do the job w/ Unload or DFA.

 

/shrug

 

Rapid Shots doesn't do as much damage as Unload for me, and definitely not as much as DFA. (You're right that I use DFA more as a "get out of this spot" move, but it's decent damage if they won't move)

 

Its situational. Since its white damage even more so. I use it as a last resort if everything else is on CD and I am out of range. As its better than rapid shots like you say. I like its animation very much though

[Esiqual]

Any melee worth his weight will never try to engage a PT pyro 1v1 (exception maybe marurder in annialation) because of our ability to kite and due to our instant cast design. Most melee classes are designed to close the gap and shut down casting designed ACs. This is where melee should be focused. If you are melee and not doing this 90% of the time its a L2P issue nothing more.

 

Any ranged class should almost exclusively target mid range mobile fighters FIRST such as PT or Van in any dps spec and shadows/assassins in dps specs. These specs are designed to be mobile and do high dmg at mid range but with very limited defensive cds making them prone to any form of focus fire from any range dps specs.

 

Also any class in dps spec that also has taunts and uses them effectively can shut down alot of dps against imcompetent pugs, but it also screams focus me. If you and your team are not focusing players that know how to effectively taunt it is also a L2P issue for pugs and premades alike.

[DimeStax]

*shrug* If you wish to take it that way and also ignore that every melee class has the means to keep you (as a pyro) in melee range once you are in it your theorycrafting (and its nothing more than that, try staying between 4 and 10meters for some time) is partially valid. You also asked in your original post explicitly if we used stockstrike so you didn't account for anything. I just answered your question.

 

Yes, you answered my question but also offered an analysis of my post by claiming my facts were wrong. That is where you were wrong. And just because a a melee has ways of keeping you in melee range, that doesn't make you a melee class. Melee can keep my Sniper at close range too, that doesn't make my Sniper a melee class.

[KBSIP]

Yes, you answered my question but also offered an analysis of my post by claiming my facts were wrong. That is where you were wrong. And just because a a melee has ways of keeping you in melee range, that doesn't make you a melee class. Melee can keep my Sniper at close range too, that doesn't make my Sniper a melee class.

 

question; can you engage the T& Z fight without swapping targets and survive without failing the enrage timer?

 

answer - no; you're melee

answer - yes; you're ranged

 

guess powertechs are melee.

[DimeStax]

question; can you engage the T& Z fight without swapping targets and survive without failing the enrage timer?

 

answer - no; you're melee

answer - yes; you're ranged

 

guess powertechs are melee.

 

That's the sadest attempt and failure of reasoning I have ever heard for any MMO. Congrats.

Edited May 30, 2012 by DimeStax

[Sneakypepper]

troll post. Rail shot ignores 60 % armor if speced.

 

your suggestions made me laugh though thx.

 

Um yeah, you should probably take that foot out of your mouth. Its 90% i think. 60% from one talent and 30% from another, PLUS +6% increased damage from another separate talent.

 

You made me laugh though, at your silly lack of knowledge.

[MobiusZero]

Any melee worth his weight will never try to engage a PT pyro 1v1 (exception maybe marurder in annialation) because of our ability to kite and due to our instant cast design.

 

I agree. I think most of the complaints about being weak to melee is not true. Sure, most melee have gap closers, stuns, and slows, but they still need to be at 4m to deal damage.

 

PT gets a PERMA SLOW! Even if melee gets tools to be able to catch you, they still won't be able to hit you 100% of the fight, because their tools are limited in comparison to the perma slow that they will have on them.

 

As many people have stated - If you are having problems getting killed by melee as a PT, learn to kite. Your class is ridiculous in 1v1.

 

Granted, Maras are still OP. But not compared to PT's.

[vonklaun]

To the genius that is spouting off about all the 30m abilities pt pyros have:

 

Ok, hello, let me share something that is KEY to this stupid debate that I haven't really read being brought up yet- so lemme just be plain and direct:

 

FACT: The effectiveness/DPS of the pt pyro revolve around RAILSHOT PROCS.

To get RAILSHOT PROCS, you have to be within at least TEN METERS.

And... if you don't get railshot procs- you can only use railshot every 16 seconds.

 

You need to understand that the pyrotech spec for powertech bounty hunters is build around firing off a railshot every six seconds after the first two. This is what it's about, ladies and gentlemen. With both a thermal detonator and an incendary missile already on your opponent as you close in- the whole BURST DAM THANG requires you to railshot/railshot again while doing your rotation AND kiting your opponent. This is build around a tree'd skill called 'Prototype Particle Accelerator'- which gives flame burst (lowish chance) and rocket punch (60% I think) the chance to proc your railshot/make it free with a minimum 6 second interval.

 

The 30m range argument breaks completely down given that flame burst or rocket punch (the higher proc %) are 10m and melee range respectively.

 

You could only ever get 1 railshot off at 30m- by hitting them with incendary missile first, for example. You can do burst still- but most any geared player will survive with just a TD, IM and a single railshot hitting them.

 

And the pt pyros 'railshot ignoring armor thing' was built into the freaking skill tree on purpose by bw. It's not some overlooked OP'd thing- it's been this way since launch. It's a tree'd mechanic of RAILSHOT, which- like I have said- is the central ability upon which pt pyros rely on.

[vonklaun]

Oh- and another thing:

 

Playing the pt pyro spec requires a ton of skill to to dominate in WZs. True- people who aren't team players and just attack evrything on the opposing team until they die, respawn and do it again and again can pull some decent total DAM numbers. But that's not what it's about if you're a top player, doing premades, tight teamwork with your guild, etc.

 

You know the whole thing about pt pyros being 'squishy'? This is where skill comes in- Unless I'm getting FF'd, I dance in and through the opposition and take motherf#@kers down without dying myself. That is one of the hardest, most improvisational kiting rotations in the entire game.

 

People that attack and attack and attack like *******es and just keep ghetting stomped tend not to have really good #s, like the 450k average I've been doing in tough, guild v guild WZs.

[Varicite]

I agree. I think most of the complaints about being weak to melee is not true. Sure, most melee have gap closers, stuns, and slows, but they still need to be at 4m to deal damage.

 

PT gets a PERMA SLOW! Even if melee gets tools to be able to catch you, they still won't be able to hit you 100% of the fight, because their tools are limited in comparison to the perma slow that they will have on them.

 

As many people have stated - If you are having problems getting killed by melee as a PT, learn to kite. Your class is ridiculous in 1v1.

 

Granted, Maras are still OP. But not compared to PT's.

 

I seriously lol'd at this.

 

Will you please just stop talking about classes you don't understand?

 

The snare is 2 seconds. It's not perma-anything. Nobody just spams Flame Bursts as Pyro, especially since 1.2.

[MobiusZero]

To the genius that is spouting off about all the 30m abilities pt pyros have:

 

You just said so yourself, that you don't even need to be at 10m to use Railshot. So YES, I'd call that being pretty effective at range.

 

Also, to repeat myself for the umteenth time:

 

30m = range

10m = range

4m = melee

 

My Cull has 10m range, and compared to the 4m requirement on Shiv, it feels very much like a ranged attack when I use it. Because it is.

 

I seriously lol'd at this.

 

Will you please just stop talking about classes you don't understand?

 

The snare is 2 seconds. It's not perma-anything. Nobody just spams Flame Bursts as Pyro, especially since 1.2.

 

Hmmm, maybe it's you who don't understand your class? You only need to flame burst once to perma snare.

[Scoloplastic]

Hmmm, maybe it's you who don't understand your class? You only need to flame burst once to perma snare.

 

Heh, I guess 2 seconds seem like a long time to those of lesser intelligence