Powertech Pyrotech deserve the HUGE nerf

[LoKiei]

Degauss.

 

And pyros and prolly the only tree in game that has a slow that procs off his basic attacks, also the only tree in game that melds its slow with its most powerful spam attack. All other classes (there are exceptions, like marauder speced to slow on dot) must use low or no damage skills to kite and theese skils often cost a gcd and resources. Pyros can slow people while killing them, theres no effort to kite while im on my assault vanguard, i just kit hitting them with hammer shots and ion pulse and they eventually are left behind by how easy plasma cell reapllies and slows my targets over and over and over and over.

 

To say that pyros cant kite is to deny reality.

 

lol you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

Degauss removes the effects once when you activate energy shield(which with energy rebounder is at most once a minute). They can be reapplied right after, furthmore you don't wait to activate energy shield until half way into the fight - you activate it at the begining.

 

For a target to be snared permanetly only flameburst can be used, which leads to overheating. I would rather have a snare that lasted 8-10s that cost 1gcd then a snare that lasts 2secs but does damage at the same time.

 

Lastly like I said before all melee in this game have a gap closer and PT doesn't have any type of knockback

 

The 2 second snare has one and only one use and that is to prevent people from running away, not kiteing.

Edited May 29, 2012 by LoKiei

[Scoobings]

Degauss.

 

And pyros and prolly the only tree in game that has a slow that procs off his basic attacks, also the only tree in game that melds its slow with its most powerful spam attack. All other classes (there are exceptions, like marauder speced to slow on dot) must use low or no damage skills to kite and theese skils often cost a gcd and resources. Pyros can slow people while killing them, theres no effort to kite while im on my assault vanguard, i just kit hitting them with hammer shots and ion pulse and they eventually are left behind by how easy plasma cell reapllies and slows my targets over and over and over and over.

 

To say that pyros cant kite is to deny reality.

 

They can, and I have on my PT. I actually do it all the time. However, if the other person has the slightest clue what they're doing the PT won't be able to kite. Degauss is one snare removal in the fight. If you ever get kited as a maurader, you're not very good, and should work on your opener.

 

Also, as far as survivability goes, all the classes you mentioned that all crumple under focus fire have around 4x as many escape/survival tools as powertechs. We have one defensive cooldown and that's it. My sniper at level 40 has more utility and survivability than my powertech (if he's pyro). You're not going to win the survivability arguement, that's just silly.

 

Powertechs have crazy burst because of time delay moves in combination with their hard hitting moves. IM -> TD -> FB > RS is no different than Legshot > EP > Ambush > Followthrough (especially if you have a proc for ambush). Actually, the Sniper's rotation is Burstier and their target can't move for the entirety of the combo. People need to stop crying and learn the strengths and weaknesses of their class.

[MobiusZero]

Lastly like I said before all melee in this game have a gap closer and PT doesn't have any type of knockback

 

I didn't realize IA's have gap closers (though I guess if you are a team of stunlocking operatives, you don't need one anyways.).

Edited May 29, 2012 by MobiusZero

[Varicite]

Degauss.

 

And pyros and prolly the only tree in game that has a slow that procs off his basic attacks, also the only tree in game that melds its slow with its most powerful spam attack. All other classes (there are exceptions, like marauder speced to slow on dot) must use low or no damage skills to kite and theese skils often cost a gcd and resources. Pyros can slow people while killing them, theres no effort to kite while im on my assault vanguard, i just kit hitting them with hammer shots and ion pulse and they eventually are left behind by how easy plasma cell reapllies and slows my targets over and over and over and over.

 

To say that pyros cant kite is to deny reality.

 

Really? Your argument is Degauss, a talent that I've never seen anyone seriously spec into for more than a week before realizing how terrible it is?

 

One of the squishier DPS classes (which has been brought up over and over in this thread) is going to use its ONLY real defensive cooldown to break 1 snare every 1-2 minutes?

 

You really should have stuck w/ Flame Burst spam.... at least then, it sounded like you knew what you were talking about.

 

Or are you saying that YOU take that terrible talent? Please, tell me that's not the case. <.<

Edited May 29, 2012 by Varicite

[LoKiei]

I didn't realize IA's have gap closers (though I guess if you are a team of stunlocking operatives, you don't need one anyways.).

 

Stealth.

 

You must be a terrible operative.

[Fdzzaigl]

Degauss.

 

And pyros and prolly the only tree in game that has a slow that procs off his basic attacks, also the only tree in game that melds its slow with its most powerful spam attack. All other classes (there are exceptions, like marauder speced to slow on dot) must use low or no damage skills to kite and theese skils often cost a gcd and resources. Pyros can slow people while killing them, theres no effort to kite while im on my assault vanguard, i just kit hitting them with hammer shots and ion pulse and they eventually are left behind by how easy plasma cell reapllies and slows my targets over and over and over and over.

 

To say that pyros cant kite is to deny reality.

 

As opposed to applying an 18s 50% slow as a marauder for minimal resources and similar abilities for other classes? At least PT's / Vanguards will easily blow through their resources by spamming, as well as your slow having at least a 1 second downtime when using any other ability that doesn't reapply (2s slow + other = 2x GCD= 3 seconds).

If you can't beat a powertech who's kiting, you should re-evaluate what you're doing (except for classes /specs that lack escape abilities and slows, like commandos).

 

BioWare hands out slows like free candy on the carnival, any player who played a kiting class in another game should have a field day at both kiting and countering kiting in this game.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Fdzzaigl

[Asukaa]

Lol, you're the one that jumped in trying to say that PT's are not overpowered simply because you can top the DPS charts as a commando. I was pointing out that the same could be said about almost any DPS class played by a skilled/smart player.

 

And sorry, I didn't realize that only Fatman has skilled PvPers

 

Fatman is where the majority rerolled. So if you're on a dead server, your argument is invalid because you don't see enough wz's to actually know what's overpowered and what's not. Stop posting and reroll.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Asukaa

[MobiusZero]

Powertechs have crazy burst because of time delay moves in combination with their hard hitting moves. IM -> TD -> FB > RS is no different than Legshot > EP > Ambush > Followthrough (especially if you have a proc for ambush). Actually, the Sniper's rotation is Burstier and their target can't move for the entirety of the combo. People need to stop crying and learn the strengths and weaknesses of their class.

 

Again with the snipers...

 

A sniper must be an immobile turret to do their DPS. They also have the worst weakness in the game...Walls! And let's compare the damages of their rotations when you factor in their top damage moves being interrupted, thanks to them having casting times.

[Scoobings]

lol you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

Degauss removes the effects once when you activate energy shield(which with energy rebounder is at most once a minute). They can be reapplied right after, furthmore you don't wait to activate energy shield until half way into the fight - you activate it at the begining.

 

For a target to be snared permanetly only flameburst can be used, which leads to overheating. I would rather have a snare that lasted 8-10s that cost 1gcd then a snare that lasts 2secs but does damage at the same time.

 

Lastly like I said before all melee in this game have a gap closer and PT doesn't have any type of knockback

 

The 2 second snare has one and only one use and that is to prevent people from running away, not kiteing.

 

Your point about the Combustable procs isn't entirely true. If you use railshot while combustable is already on them then it reapplies the dot, and reapplies the snare. Still, you're right, only idiots get kited by powertechs. Idiots and people who have over-extended.

[MobiusZero]

Stealth.

 

You must be a terrible operative.

 

Lol, funny how I was 100% sure you were going to respond with this.

 

Stealth /= gap closer.

[Frunzenshnapp]

Guys, stop reiterating the same conversation over and over. Sure, every class can pull as much damage, as a PT.

But.

At the moment lvl 50 pvp is a dps race. It's not about who's got more heals or more overall hp. It's just about who puts out more burst. And that's where PT's really stick out. And that's why we're having all this problems with PT's only after 1.2 an stat/TTK changes. PTs are the only dps class in the game, who have an unmitigatable, instant, barely range dependent massive burst. And that's all you really need. Every other classes have something, keeping their bursts in check. Lots of preparations, dependence on range/stealth/positioning etc. Our dearly beloved snipers are checked and mitigated by every defensive possible. But anyone can pull of a pt's burst. That's where i see the real problem with PT. Their burst should be either harder to do, or softer, therefore actually separating a skilled player from another FOTM kid.

So please, stop using 1v1 as a balance model, it's not about that. PT die quick when focused. But what if we meet 4 PTs in ranked? While we focus one, other 2 will have enough time to eat all of our healers. It's gona be a huge issue, when ranked wz's will hit.

[LoKiei]

Lol, funny how I was 100% sure you were going to respond with this.

 

Stealth /= gap closer.

 

Actually it is. You can't kite or attack someone who is stealthed.

 

I think you're mad that operatives did end up getting their much needed nerf.

[KBSIP]

Guys, stop reiterating the same conversation over and over. Sure, every class can pull as much damage, as a PT.

But.

At the moment lvl 50 pvp is a dps race. It's not about who's got more heals or more overall hp. It's just about who puts out more burst. And that's where PT's really stick out. And that's why we're having all this problems with PT's only after 1.2 an stat/TTK changes. PTs are the only dps class in the game, who have an unmitigatable, instant, barely range dependent massive burst. And that's all you really need. Every other classes have something, keeping their bursts in check. Lots of preparations, dependence on range/stealth/positioning etc. Our dearly beloved snipers are checked and mitigated by every defensive possible. But anyone can pull of a pt's burst. That's where i see the real problem with PT. Their burst should be either harder to do, or softer, therefore actually separating a skilled player from another FOTM kid.

So please, stop using 1v1 as a balance model, it's not about that. PT die quick when focused. But what if we meet 4 PTs in ranked? While we focus one, other 2 will have enough time to eat all of our healers. It's gona be a huge issue, when ranked wz's will hit.

 

 

you're wrong about PT burst. Railshot is the primary method of damaging, and is subject to accuracy versus defense checks. The only thing that unbalances this is critical hits ignoring all defense, and that SHOULD be addressed for every class in the game in order to make defense tanking gear and defense based cooldowns more viable. A deflected railshot with saber ward = directly prevented burst, a cleansed dot = another GCD waste reapplying it

[MobiusZero]

Actually it is. You can't kite or attack someone who is stealthed.

 

I think you're mad that operatives did end up getting their much needed nerf.

 

Not really, since I switched to Lethality back when I thought Concealment was OP, and have stuck with it ever since. I don't like playing OP classes...it's not in my nature.

 

And the term "gap closer" refers to an ability that allows you to close a medium to long range distance instantly or very quickly. Stealth does not fall into that category.

Edited May 29, 2012 by MobiusZero

[Scoobings]

Guys, stop reiterating the same conversation over and over. Sure, every class can pull as much damage, as a PT.

But.

At the moment lvl 50 pvp is a dps race. It's not about who's got more heals or more overall hp. It's just about who puts out more burst. And that's where PT's really stick out. And that's why we're having all this problems with PT's only after 1.2 an stat/TTK changes. PTs are the only dps class in the game, who have an unmitigatable, instant, barely range dependent massive burst. And that's all you really need. Every other classes have something, keeping their bursts in check. Lots of preparations, dependence on range/stealth/positioning etc. Our dearly beloved snipers are checked and mitigated by every defensive possible. But anyone can pull of a pt's burst. That's where i see the real problem with PT. Their burst should be either harder to do, or softer, therefore actually separating a skilled player from another FOTM kid.

So please, stop using 1v1 as a balance model, it's not about that. PT die quick when focused. But what if we meet 4 PTs in ranked? While we focus one, other 2 will have enough time to eat all of our healers. It's gona be a huge issue, when ranked wz's will hit.

 

Cleanse, and any move that mitigates white damage mitigates railshot.

 

As soon as I get some utility as a full pyrotech you can talk about lumping PTs in with the other classes. They trade ease of use for utility.

[Varicite]

Guys, stop reiterating the same conversation over and over. Sure, every class can pull as much damage, as a PT.

But.

At the moment lvl 50 pvp is a dps race. It's not about who's got more heals or more overall hp. It's just about who puts out more burst. And that's where PT's really stick out. And that's why we're having all this problems with PT's only after 1.2 an stat/TTK changes. PTs are the only dps class in the game, who have an unmitigatable, instant, barely range dependent massive burst. And that's all you really need. Every other classes have something, keeping their bursts in check. Lots of preparations, dependence on range/stealth/positioning etc. Our dearly beloved snipers are checked and mitigated by every defensive possible. But anyone can pull of a pt's burst. That's where i see the real problem with PT. Their burst should be either harder to do, or softer, therefore actually separating a skilled player from another FOTM kid.

So please, stop using 1v1 as a balance model, it's not about that. PT die quick when focused. But what if we meet 4 PTs in ranked? While we focus one, other 2 will have enough time to eat all of our healers. It's gona be a huge issue, when ranked wz's will hit.

 

You obviously don't really know what you're talking about, so I'll be brief.

 

Somebody has told you wrong about Rail Shot, it's subject to MORE mitigation checks than almost any other ability in the game, because it is ranged white damage. It means it hits armor (10%), defense (may miss completely), and shields (part of its damage can be absorbed) before it ever gets to YOU.

 

Also, to your last paragraph, 1 competent tank nullifies that entire argument. Especially since you are talking about multiple healers.

[MobiusZero]

You obviously don't really know what you're talking about, so I'll be brief.

 

Somebody has told you wrong about Rail Shot, it's subject to MORE mitigation checks than almost any other ability in the game, because it is ranged white damage. It means it hits armor (10%), defense (may miss completely), and shields (part of its damage can be absorbed) before it ever gets to YOU.

 

If you play a PT, you know full well that this is not really an issue.

 

My Cull is white damage too and it's never been a problem for me.

[Vodrin]

Guardian: Freezing Force, Force Push, Endure, Force Leap, and Guardian Leap all seem to have fallen off of your list for this guy. Hmm.

 

Assassin: Spike, Force Speed, Overload, and Whirlwind all seem to have escaped your notice here even though they are listed for Sage and are BASE class abilities besides Spike. Oyeah, and decent self-healing (Only 3% less healing than Kolto Overload, on a 6 second cooldown.)

 

Sage: Heals, Overload, Force Slow, and Extricate have all been tossed by the wayside here for some strange reason.

 

Sniper: I'm not sure how Cover didn't make this list, but you did nail most of the non-spec dependent defenses here. You still seem to have missed Leg Shot, which is probably their best ability though. Along w/ that, there are the extremely awesome Entrench and marginally less awesome Ballistic Shield.

 

 

 

Want to rethink this a bit?

He also missed a number of specable passives for the sniper. Ballistic dampers being the best of them. That is good for 8-10K heals on a game where the opposing team is being aggressive about targeting you (assuming you relocate as frequently as you should anyways).

[Winkywinky]

Guys, stop reiterating the same conversation over and over. Sure, every class can pull as much damage, as a PT.

But.

At the moment lvl 50 pvp is a dps race. It's not about who's got more heals or more overall hp. It's just about who puts out more burst. And that's where PT's really stick out. And that's why we're having all this problems with PT's only after 1.2 an stat/TTK changes. PTs are the only dps class in the game, who have an unmitigatable, instant, barely range dependent massive burst. And that's all you really need. Every other classes have something, keeping their bursts in check. Lots of preparations, dependence on range/stealth/positioning etc. Our dearly beloved snipers are checked and mitigated by every defensive possible. But anyone can pull of a pt's burst. That's where i see the real problem with PT. Their burst should be either harder to do, or softer, therefore actually separating a skilled player from another FOTM kid.

So please, stop using 1v1 as a balance model, it's not about that. PT die quick when focused. But what if we meet 4 PTs in ranked? While we focus one, other 2 will have enough time to eat all of our healers. It's gona be a huge issue, when ranked wz's will hit.

 

you are only 1/2 right..

 

its burst damage And defense cooldowns which is why you see people complain about maras/sents and tank assin/shadows...which is 2 class's that should never lose to a pyor/assault PT/Van...

 

the only class's PT/Van destroy are the old FTOM class's/specs which i might add that some do need buffs like the merc/commando ....

 

people are bored and have rerolled on new servers are tried something new or rerolling a alt which is why we have a influx of PT/Vans at the moment just like snipers..lol

[Scoobings]

If you play a PT, you know full well that this is not really an issue.

 

My Cull is white damage too and it's never been a problem for me.

 

Eh, I tend to avoid tanks on my PT because of the nasty shield generator, but you're right the armor isn't really an issue and there's so much $@#%ing accuracy on our gear that railshot almost never misses (at least it's good for something I guess). Still the shield generator is kind of a big deal.

 

On my sniper I avoid tanks too, they're a pain in the ***. I'm not lethality on him though, so yeah, all white damage comin out.

[ChickenWangs]

This thread is amusing. People who don't play a class posting about others who don't play a class posting about others. What happened to crying about Marauders? They are the top dps in the game currently. If you advocate for a nerf without playing a level 50 of that character you are completely wrong and should stop making these threads. All classes are currently balanced for their roll (except maybe Gunslingers). L2P you class. I die to Assassins, Operatives, Sorcerers, Mercs, and Marauders. But I do way better than a ton of people BECAUSE I KNOW HOW TO PLAY MY CLASS. The only people who kill me Know how to play their class. This thread will die in a hole just like all of the other nerf threads. Unfortunately a spew of nerf threads will emerge when ranked wzs come out. *sigh*

[Fdzzaigl]

Guys, stop reiterating the same conversation over and over. Sure, every class can pull as much damage, as a PT.

But.

At the moment lvl 50 pvp is a dps race. It's not about who's got more heals or more overall hp. It's just about who puts out more burst. And that's where PT's really stick out. And that's why we're having all this problems with PT's only after 1.2 an stat/TTK changes. PTs are the only dps class in the game, who have an unmitigatable, instant, barely range dependent massive burst. And that's all you really need. Every other classes have something, keeping their bursts in check. Lots of preparations, dependence on range/stealth/positioning etc. Our dearly beloved snipers are checked and mitigated by every defensive possible. But anyone can pull of a pt's burst. That's where i see the real problem with PT. Their burst should be either harder to do, or softer, therefore actually separating a skilled player from another FOTM kid.

So please, stop using 1v1 as a balance model, it's not about that. PT die quick when focused. But what if we meet 4 PTs in ranked? While we focus one, other 2 will have enough time to eat all of our healers. It's gona be a huge issue, when ranked wz's will hit.

 

Burst is too high, I agree.

 

But this kind of ******** posts about PT's / Vanguards having crazy defences as well as high burst, while being able to pull it all off from ranged and having infinite permasnares should stop.

 

There is high initial burst from range: they will apply incendiary round, then apply assault plastique, then HiB.

All of this together can do ~ 8-11k damage, if everything crits. If they want the "blow you up sky high" effect, they will need to close in to stockstrike you, which has a 60% chance to reset HiB for another high hit.

After that the PT / vanguard will be at low ammo / high heat.

They will need to be in 10m range to have a chance at doing any decent damage for the next 15 seconds after that.

 

Is this burst too high? Yes

 

But that should be placed in a PvP situation with a very low TTK, where several other classes can pull off 8-11k+ damage in just a few seconds as well, some of which also have defensive cooldowns to avoid said damage from the other team.

 

A powertech does NOT have those cooldowns.

 

A powertech does NOT have permasnares that he can put on someone and forget about afterwards.

[Varicite]

If you play a PT, you know full well that this is not really an issue.

 

My Cull is white damage too and it's never been a problem for me.

 

You must be very lucky to play against Marauders who never use Obfuscate or Saber Ward, Juggernauts who also never use Saber Ward, Assassins that never use Deflection, PT tanks that don't drop Oil Slicks, Snipers who don't toss a Diversion at you, Operatives who just didn't bother to train Dodge, etc.

 

I do play a PT, so I also know full well just how easy a Rail Shot combo is to predict. Even moreso if they are cookie-cutter 5/5/31, which makes having your Rail Shots dodged/deflected an issue.

 

On my server, there are some people who not only know how to predict a Rail Shot, but will smash you to little bits before you ever have the opportunity to drop your combo on them. That's part of the reason I made the switch to a hybrid that nobody else that I know of has ever played.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Varicite

[MobiusZero]

This thread is amusing. People who don't play a class posting about others who don't play a class posting about others. What happened to crying about Marauders? They are the top dps in the game currently. If you advocate for a nerf without playing a level 50 of that character you are completely wrong and should stop making these threads. All classes are currently balanced for their roll (except maybe Gunslingers). L2P you class. I die to Assassins, Operatives, Sorcerers, Mercs, and Marauders. But I do way better than a ton of people BECAUSE I KNOW HOW TO PLAY MY CLASS. The only people who kill me Know how to play their class. This thread will die in a hole just like all of the other nerf threads. Unfortunately a spew of nerf threads will emerge when ranked wzs come out. *sigh*

 

God forbid people want a more balanced game!! A healthy MMORPG, is a constantly balancing MMORPG. There will never be perfect balance in any game, ever, so there is always room for improvement.

 

Both Maras and PT's need a nerf.

[Frunzenshnapp]

You obviously don't really know what you're talking about, so I'll be brief.

 

Somebody has told you wrong about Rail Shot, it's subject to MORE mitigation checks than almost any other ability in the game, because it is ranged white damage. It means it hits armor (10%), defense (may miss completely), and shields (part of its damage can be absorbed) before it ever gets to YOU.

 

1. It's not like PT have only rail shot for dps

2. White damage still hits very often.

3. Basically it's the only white damage shot PTs have.

4. Forgot in my main post. You don't have to watch your dots to maximize your dps. They just reapply all the time by default. Too easy to play. PT are the last shelter for incompetence, since mercs got changed.

P.S. I'm deliberately not mentiong stupid assassin tanks, considering their opnees out of question at this point.