Skilled players

[ProKsnNwk]

Every time i log on the site, i see a thread about Mara/sent being overpowered. seriously they are not overpowered and here why.

 

First of all if you're crying that you can't do anything against them well you're just soft because obviously its the player who is on the char fighting you that is well experiences. That being said go learn how to play because you can't win them all, i bet half of you are crying only because you keep going after the same guy in pvp and got own as a result so you come here saying "omg overpowered , plz Nerf Nerf Nerf" You can't win them all.

 

At the moment i am on the fatman leveling up another shadow and i am level 33 right non, i seen countless numbers of marauders/sent and i own them all and lost to some. (NO BIG DEAL THAT'S HOW IT WORKS YOU CAN'T WIN THEM ALL) seeing how i don't have my main skill at being level 33, simple thing i do all the time, i mod out my gears with Power/endurance/willpower.........i see a marauder while i am in stealth i mind stun him, then i do my other mind skill which is a dot effect, then i go in attack mode with simple rotations to build up my burst and i never use back stab until i get the proc. (project is your friend, force wave combo with tele is your friend------Make sure slow is always used.)

 

Its no big deal to fight them, many of you lose to them simply because you never use your procs at the right time. I always tell people this and they think i am joking, once you master "strafe" movement you're almost guarantee a win.

 

If you're a sorc healing spec or a sage, why the heck are you fighting a mara/sent? obviously you're spec healing so you have no place to complain about can't kill them or can't heal your friends. (umm if you can't heal your friends point fingers at them for failing to guard, point fingers at your self for being such a fail to be spotted. I can tell you this since most of you seem to forget, in any pvp a healer is always mark to focus fire on which is why you die fast. (simple strad of the opposite them, so stop point fingers at the one class when their doing their role.)

 

I love you you guys point fingers at sent/mara, when flipping snipers/gunslingers/power tech running around with 6k to 7k damage a shot.

 

Tips

Learn the diff between cloud of pain and undying rage so you don't stun them at the wrong moment/

save your skill for breaking out of stealth, you don't want them choking you.

if you're a melee class----strafe movement is req which i believe is "Q" and "E" mind is rebind though.

 

Gun class- you have the advantage, keep moving and spamming your shots.

 

Healers--just stay away or stun them to get away, and complain to your team how much of a fail they are.

 

And plz for god sake remember this at least.-------> Its not the class that's over powered, its the dam player who's controlling it.

Hey!

 

I read your post about you saying that Sent/Mar not being OP.

 

In my opinion, the Mar/Sent are totaly OP, the same as the Operative/Scoundrel (healer spec).

You just don't want your Mar/Sent nerfed, since your one of these guys that like to play only OP classes.

 

Think, why most of people stopped playing Sorcs/Sages, Commandos (healer).

It's because these classes are broke and not OP anymore!

 

At the moment at my server, just like on many others servers people started rolling Sentinels/Marauders, Scoundrel/Operative (healers) since they are OP classes.

 

I personally have Sentinel lvl 50 (Alt), on low lvl pvp I'm able to kill 1 vs 3.

It's not 1 vs 3 noobs, it's 1 vs 3 good players who are very skilled, and I kill them.

Since DoT spec is BURSTY SUSTAINED DPS, and you also have 4 defensive abilities, and to BOOST a ability that DAMAGE TAKEN REDUCED BY 99% for 6 SECONDS and FORCE CAMOUFLAGE!

Also in my opinion it have SUSTAINED BURSTY DPS since it hits like a truck without using any buffs.

Jedi Shadow have to use buffs to get hight damage and you get hight damage without buffs, but also you can sustain it since you build Focus, and Sentinels/Marauders builds it so fast it's ridiculous!

Also talk about Sentinels/Marauders not having any stuns is a eye-wash, since you have AoE stunn, Choke and Force Leap!!!

If it's not OP, then I ask you !.! is it then!?!?!?

 

Also you talk about Sages/Sorc not kiting.

You know even if they kite, they die in 5 seconds!!!

They only survive if they have at the same time Guard on them and they are Guarded by other people!

That kills all the fun in playing Sorcs/Sages!

Sorc/Sages got total Nerfed in 1.2 for healing, and even in DPS spec, they have it hard!!!

Why do you think all these people stopped playing Sorcs/Sages, from half population of Sorcs/Sages to almost non-existent!

It's because the class suck!

 

Why Scoundrel/Operative (healer) are OP?!

It's because they can out-heal like almost 2 burst dps attacking him at the same time!!!

To kill a Scoundrel/Operative healer, you have to spend every CD and and experience from gaming you have!!!

Even that gives you only 30% to 40% chance to killing the healer!!

I don't really know the Scoundrel very good yet, but when I see people who suck in playing doing GODLIKE things then I just feel like crying because of the unbalance in the PVP!

 

Also I'm quite good player, my main is Jedi Shadow, and I can be a nightmare to other players. Because of the my experience of playing with it, I got the rotation in my instincts!

Edited May 30, 2012 by ProKsnNwk

[ProKsnNwk]

Hey.

I'm going to start more discussion on the forums about the OP classes and the to much Nerfed class for PVP!

Because, It saddens me watching as community doesn't take any initiative to make the PVP more balanced and fun!

If you won't announce that something went wrong with the changes, then how Devs will know that classes need changes!

 

Also I would like to see more actions from the Devs side too,

because you implemented the changes to classes for PVE, and the feedback for PVP of it didn't interested you!

 

There are always problems when you want to change the class PVP or PVE wisely, bacause if you change something for PVP, the PVE part can surfer on it, and vice versa.

Edited May 30, 2012 by ProKsnNwk

[Armelle]

actually I've gotta own pretty bad by sorc while playing a marauder by a good player who knows what he was doing. lolz

 

he cc me then lightning, then he knock me back, lightning spam boom dead. sorc puts out some serious damage just so you know.

 

There's no way in hell a sorc killed your marauder with 2 just rounds of lightning while controlling you with only 1 stun and 1 knockback. Maybe you forgot to mention you were already 3/4 dead with cooldowns blown?

[Dayshadow]

actually I've gotta own pretty bad by sorc while playing a marauder by a good player who knows what he was doing. lolz

 

 

he cc me then lightning, then he knock me back, lightning spam boom dead. sorc puts out some serious damage just so you know.

 

LOL! I just run up an mash whatevers off CD and win 100% of the time. If a sorc ever beat my sentinel 1vs1 I would kill myself. No offense, but you suck pretty bad. The sorc wasn't great. You have all the tools you need to negate anything they can do. Try using your slow for a change and an ability other than assault:rolleyes: And believe it or not, you have some CC too. Now you know and knowing is half the battle

 

I have a sorc, just so you know. You cannot beat a competetent marauder with a sorc. The sheer DPS output of a sentinel will eat a sorc within 10s and can be dished out while moving. a Sorc has to come to a full stop to do any real DPS and even then it doesn't compare to a sentinel. If you lost 1vs1 to a sorc you should delete your marauder and cancel your account and never play an MMO ever again.

 

And there is no way in hell a sorc killed you that quick. No way. No how. I don't even think a Warhero sorc could just stand in place and lightning spam you to death if you wore recruit gear, unless you just sat there and let him. LOL @ LIARS.

[Giladd]

So many blatant lies and misinformation in this thread...

I've been playing a marauder since February, we're not OP. We're a strong 1v1 / healer harassment class, we have the worst utility in game, we are extremely squishy when CD's are not up, and we are the class that gets negated the easiest by CC, which is out of control with how much there is in this game.

 

Here is Terminology I'm going to use and define since some people really don't know what they're talking about and call a CC something a lot different than it is:

Stun - Abilities greyed out, cannot move.

Snare - Movement speed reduced, but above 0%

Root - movement speed reduced to 0%, able to still use abilities

Mez - Abilities greyed out, cannot move, broken on damage taken.

CC - Crowd Control, any of the abilities listed above are considered CC.

 

And apologies for the text wall, I have ~6 pages where I got the highlight quotes for.

I actually think Juggs good players are way more dangerous than Maras xD Still, I've rerolled a Mara for my 4th alt.... It's incredibly easy compared to Sorc / Oper... I haven't reached lvl 20 still but spammable slow for 50% that remains for 15 secs? ****.... And I wondered why all my purges couldn't do anything against them and had so many problems kitting in my Sorc Healer. I wouldn't say they are Op, but they require a lot less skill to play than other classes since you could't care less about resource management (everything you do builds it).

 

Anyway, you're also playing FOTM class yourself....

 

12 second slow that takes 2 rage to use. If you spam it, you're losing a lot of dps. And yes, before level 20 as a marauder is as faceroll easy as any other class in the game. Once you, you know, actually get it higher level you'll see how much more difficult it is then any other class in this game. Unlike any other class in the game outside of maybe healing, you have more than your standard 5 button rotation. You have ~15+ that you're going to be using and outside of the standard 7, are all situationally used and you have to second guess opponents to use them successfully.

 

Oh and also, you're flat out lieing if you say you can't cure their snare or dots. Every class in the game outside of possibly a dps sorc/sage can cure marauder DoTs / snares.

 

I think if you look at 10-49 on your server you can see the classes that are easy and effective being leveled by players . Certainly there are a ton of Marauders and Assassins being levelled on mine, pre-1.2 patch notes there were tons of Sorc, and at the start of the game there were tons of non-healing operatives.

 

Problem with DPS in warzone PvP is that Bioware has a tendency to try to make popular classes more skilful and harder to play in PvP. But the problem is the peeps prefer whatever easy mode classes are left in SWTOR , preferring the "slugger" PvP classes over the technical butterfly punching ones that are complicated to play in warzones.

 

In reality to balance PvP we need all the easier classes to be made "skilful" finally.

 

Until the ravage buff, marauders were terrible in lowbie pvp until ~46. The Ravage buff is a bit strong in lowbie pvp, but honestly who cares, it's lowbie pvp.

 

Actually this is the fourth thread on the frontpage about how marauders are not OP.

 

Like the other ones it has no arguments and wild numbers (Yes those PTs and snipers critting for 6k all the time... lets ignore relics/adrenals and cds needed for that).

 

Must be nice to be able to crit for over 5k when you pop all of your cooldowns. In rage spec, marauders can easily when they do that, but rage isn't really amazing unless working in tandem with a coordinated team. Annihilation marauders can crit for 5k on a person if they pop everything and find someone wearing less than recruit gear in expertise while being full BM or better themselves.

 

The OP must be very good at mathematics because he knows how to simplify things. He tells you do this, do that, and it is done. If you don't beat them, then 'l2p noob'. Nowhere in his post he states that marauders come in all shapes and sizes. Some even like to take 4k chunks of your hp with dots. They can stack up to 3 + 1 of these dots and the renewal of the dots is faster than your self cleanse if you are not a healer.

 

What the OP, yet again, fails to point out is that there are only a few ways of keeping the marauder off you and the cooldown is quite long. His post is not overly simplistic but also neglects other classes which suffer badly against a marauder. I, myself, have no complaint against marauders as I am a kinetic shadow with almost 1300 expertise but I see other classes simply having no chance against their attacks.

 

Just a few minutes ago, in alderaan, I pulled a marauder off someone whilst he was leaping to attack a squishy sage dps in my guild. The guy probably said *** when i caught him with my force pull halfway through his jump. With this move he picked someone on his own size and in a few seconds he popped his 'invisibility'. What he forgot is that I have it too with blackout and I found him. Then I stunned him in his undying rage and I killed him. Marauders are not OP, they are over arrogant and bullies. I got the bully whacker right here

 

4k DoT ticks, lies. It's more like 2.5k when you're against someone equally geared when the 4 DoTs crit. Not exactly OP since you know, you get 3k+ thrashes as a tank Assassin, let alone your hard hitting shocks.

Tank assassins are the only thing worse than a sniper for a marauder to face, since they can negate pretty much all of marauder damage by popping various cooldowns.

 

This class is one of the most least played class before 1.2. No one even whines about them. No one plays them. It is one of the reasons I rolled one. People that can play marauders well before were powerful and considered good. People that can't play were terrible at the class.

 

1.2 came in and mara/sensts got buffed. Suddenly, there is an influx of mara/sents whines in the forum. Lots of people suddenly rerolled mara/sents. Marauders were fine before. They were one of the best dps and healer killers in the game. You buff that kind of class, and it becomes overpowered.

 

Ya, the nerf to annihilation and the buff to the other two trees to bring them to the level of the nerfed annihilation = buff.

 

Without getting into whether marauders should be nerfed or not, lets not pretend they're any more difficult to play than most other classes.

 

Yeah you hit some more buttons in your dps rotation. This adds very little difficulty if any, the flow of the rotation seemed pretty natural to me (even when I was just leveling one and fiddling around, I have a 50 marauder now though that I WZ with on the side, mostly just log him in for the pvp daily). There's a good feel to it and any player vaguely serious about pvp is not going to have any problem performing well with a marauder.

 

The skill CEILING for marauders is pretty high, simply because with many great cooldowns comes many nuances in how you can best use them. But for average joe marauder who mainly plays his marauder and is an ordinary decent player? He'll do very well too. Having so many great cooldowns gives you many great options to handle situations. Whereas you get the opportunity to make great choices, other classes in quite a few situations don't have a good button to hit to make a great choice too.

 

It's true if you're absolutely hopeless, you're going to be hopeless on a marauder. We've all seen them. However that's the case with most AC/specs.

 

Marauders are harder to play than the other classes because they require you to be situationally aware and to know the intricates of your class and your opponents class to be remotely effective assuming two equally skilled players. No other class needs to know that to be effective in pvp.

 

I've got a 50 commando with BM/WH and a 48 sentinel. So, I'm obviously not super familiar with all the classes but here are my thoughts on sents/maras. There are 2 main problems, one of which can be fixed by the developers, the other should then (hopefully) fix itself.

 

1. Maras/Sents have too much utility compared to other classes. I would start listing all of the utility but anyone who really cares knows what I'm talking about.

2. The sheer volume of mara's is almost staggering at times(at least on my server). A pack of mara's can be a nightmare to deal with if you don't have the right team to counter them. Right now I see that being the biggest problem. I don't really see a team with one mara and the guy is running around like an unstoppable killing machine. The real issue is when you have 3 mara's leap to you and you are literally dead before you can move or get off a knockback. If the devs remove some utility then players might start playing different classes. As it is, it seems to me that team imbalance is being rewarded whereas a balanced team will often struggle(I'm referring to class balance).

 

I'm also very much in favor of limiting certain abilities such that they are PVE only (this is done somewhat already with certain abilities only affecting droids). This would make it such that the devs aren't having to juggle 2 variables when looking at nerfs. PVP may sound great to nerf mara/sents, but then you also have to think about PVE if you're the developer. Remove that portion from the equation and I believe balance will be achieved a lot faster in PVP.

 

Happy Hunting!

 

Lol, best utility in game, ya right. We have a channeled stun, being one of two ACs in the game that can have their stuns interrupted. We have an AoE mez, which is nice. In carnage, we have roots which are nice, but you trade massive survivability for that spec. Our predation is a nice buff, but we sacrifice a good amount of damage to use it. Bloodthirst is amazing the two times you can pop it a warzone, can't argue that that isn't one of the best buffs in the game atm. The best utility in the game award however goes to Sorcs or Powertechs. Sorcs have literally every CC ability in the game and they all fill lower resolve than other class equivalents... Their CC's really aren't weaker than other class CCs either is the kicker. I would say this applies only for dps sorcs, except a pvp spec'd healer sorc will have the CC as well, or at least good ones do.

 

I do agree though that in lowbie pvp, marauders are pretty OP when you have like 3 of them and they all hit ravage, pretty much an instant gibb. That isn't the game in upper end brackets though. 3 rage spec'd marauders would be pretty deadly in a warzone match if they were working together, but it's not much more powerful than 3 of most dps ACs working together in a warzone. And a 3v1 match, you should lose.

 

Hey!

 

I read your post about you saying that Sent/Mar not being OP.

 

In my opinion, the Mar/Sent are totaly OP, the same as the Operative/Scoundrel (healer spec).

You just don't want your Mar/Sent nerfed, since your one of these guys that like to play only OP classes.

 

Think, why most of people stopped playing Sorcs/Sages, Commandos (healer).

It's because these classes are broke and not OP anymore!

 

At the moment at my server, just like on many others servers people started rolling Sentinels/Marauders, Scoundrel/Operative (healers) since they are OP classes.

 

I personally have Sentinel lvl 50 (Alt), on low lvl pvp I'm able to kill 1 vs 3.

It's not 1 vs 3 noobs, it's 1 vs 3 good players who are very skilled, and I kill them.

Since DoT spec is BURSTY SUSTAINED DPS, and you also have 4 defensive abilities, and to BOOST a ability that DAMAGE TAKEN REDUCED BY 99% for 6 SECONDS and FORCE CAMOUFLAGE!

Also in my opinion it have SUSTAINED BURSTY DPS since it hits like a truck without using any buffs.

Jedi Shadow have to use buffs to get hight damage and you get hight damage without buffs, but also you can sustain it since you build Focus, and Sentinels/Marauders builds it so fast it's ridiculous!

Also talk about Sentinels/Marauders not having any stuns is a eye-wash, since you have AoE stunn, Choke and Force Leap!!!

If it's not OP, then I ask you !.! is it then!?!?!?

 

Also you talk about Sages/Sorc not kiting.

You know even if they kite, they die in 5 seconds!!!

They only survive if they have at the same time Guard on them and they are Guarded by other people!

That kills all the fun in playing Sorcs/Sages!

Sorc/Sages got total Nerfed in 1.2 for healing, and even in DPS spec, they have it hard!!!

Why do you think all these people stopped playing Sorcs/Sages, from half population of Sorcs/Sages to almost non-existent!

It's because the class suck!

 

Why Scoundrel/Operative (healer) are OP?!

It's because they can out-heal like almost 2 burst dps attacking him at the same time!!!

To kill a Scoundrel/Operative healer, you have to spend every CD and and experience from gaming you have!!!

Even that gives you only 30% to 40% chance to killing the healer!!

I don't really know the Scoundrel very good yet, but when I see people who suck in playing doing GODLIKE things then I just feel like crying because of the unbalance in the PVP!

 

Also I'm quite good player, my main is Jedi Shadow, and I can be a nightmare to other players. Because of the my experience of playing with it, I got the rotation in my instincts!

 

You will never 3v1 good players, ever. You will only 3v1 bad players with you being exceptional. Lol @ sorcs dieing in 5 seconds if they kite. Good sorcs will beat a marauder any day of the week since they can CC a marauder to death. If the marauder has a full resolve bar from a previous fight, then yes, the marauder has the potential to beat a good kiting sage. I would have to know if dps sages can cure physical or not, I'm not entirely sure, but if they can then they can just cure off most of the marauder damage and keep them far away from the sorc with CC abilites + force sprint.

 

LOL! I just run up an mash whatevers off CD and win 100% of the time. If a sorc ever beat my sentinel 1vs1 I would kill myself. No offense, but you suck pretty bad. The sorc wasn't great. You have all the tools you need to negate anything they can do. Try using your slow for a change and an ability other than assault:rolleyes: And believe it or not, you have some CC too. Now you know and knowing is half the battle

 

I have a sorc, just so you know. You cannot beat a competetent marauder with a sorc. The sheer DPS output of a sentinel will eat a sorc within 10s and can be dished out while moving. a Sorc has to come to a full stop to do any real DPS and even then it doesn't compare to a sentinel. If you lost 1vs1 to a sorc you should delete your marauder and cancel your account and never play an MMO ever again.

 

And there is no way in hell a sorc killed you that quick. No way. No how. I don't even think a Warhero sorc could just stand in place and lightning spam you to death if you wore recruit gear, unless you just sat there and let him. LOL @ LIARS.

 

A sorc will not kill you that quick, but against a competent dps sorc, which are very few and far between, you will lose as a marauder. Most sorcs, if you lose to them 1v1, ya, you're bad. The few exceptions out there will kill you though due to their massive CC and amazing kiting abilities.

[Orangerascal]

There's no way in hell a sorc killed your marauder with 2 just rounds of lightning while controlling you with only 1 stun and 1 knockback. Maybe you forgot to mention you were already 3/4 dead with cooldowns blown?

 

No wonder he thinks maruaders are bad, he's only running 7k hp's

Edited May 30, 2012 by Orangerascal

[Orangerascal]

we have the worst utility in game,

 

I stopped reading right here. By worst utility you mean:

 

- only group speed buff in game

- only group dps/hps buff in game

- aoe mez

- 3s channeling stun

- 5s complete invulnerability (at a 50% hp cost)

- 4s stealth/damage reduction

- 12s snare

- healing debuff

- 6s 90% accuracy debuff

- interrupt

- 20% damage reduction that is rebuke which in most cases lasts its full duration (30s)

- saber ward (50%/25% damage reduction for 12s)

- root on leap

- small group healing (not alot but enough for 1 full heal per person over the course fo the fight)

 

yep definitely the worst utility in the game

Edited May 30, 2012 by Orangerascal

[ProKsnNwk]

I stopped reading right here. By worst utility you mean:

 

- only group speed buff in game

- only group dps/hps buff in game

- aoe mez

- 3s channeling stun

- 5s complete invulnerability (at a 50% hp cost)

- 4s stealth/damage reduction

- 12s snare

- healing debuff

- 6s 90% accuracy debuff

- interrupt

- 20% damage reduction that is rebuke which in most cases lasts its full duration (30s)

- saber ward (50%/25% damage reduction for 12s)

- root on leap

- small group healing (not alot but enough for 1 full heal per person over the course fo the fight)

 

yep definitely the worst utility in the game

 

Yep I also stopped reading when I saw what the guy wrote in the 1st 3 sentences.

BTW Lacedeamon, Donnie, Hozzke, etc. are'nt bad players on Frostclaw.

They played with their alts, lvl 30 to 40.

I was lvl 40, and I facerolled them 1 vs 3, and I won!!!

 

The Sentinels are total OP, if you can't win against Sorcs with your Sentinel or MArauder then man YOU SUCK!

Even if your Abilities are on CD, you make BURST SUSTAINED DPS, MAN!

ALSO YOUR ABILITIES ARE "ONLY" THE DEFENSE ABILITIES (99% damage reduction for 6 second, and Force Camo (stealth))!

AND YOU SAY THAT SENTINELS HAVE BAD UTILITY!

WHICH IS TOTALY EYE-WASH!

Edited May 30, 2012 by ProKsnNwk

[Ewgal]

Marauder is up there with Powertech as overpowered PvP class. Bioware need to tone them down a little to balance the warzones better. Edited May 30, 2012 by Ewgal

[Giladd]

Yep I also stopped reading when I saw what the guy wrote in the 1st 3 sentences.

BTW Lacedeamon, Donnie, Hozzke, etc. are'nt bad players on Frostclaw.

They played with their alts, lvl 30 to 40.

I was lvl 40, and I facerolled them 1 vs 3, and I won!!!

 

The Sentinels are total OP, if you can't win against Sorcs with your Sentinel or MArauder then man YOU SUCK!

Even if your Abilities are on CD, you make BURST SUSTAINED DPS, MAN!

ALSO YOUR ABILITIES ARE "ONLY" THE DEFENSE ABILITIES (99% damage reduction for 6 second, and Force Camo (stealth))!

AND YOU SAY THAT SENTINELS HAVE BAD UTILITY!

WHICH IS TOTALY EYE-WASH!

 

I kill most sorcs np, however on my server there is one that knows how to play his class to the fullest that I cannot kill due to you know, speccing correctly and using his abilities to the fullest potential for kiting when he's in dps. With how much he's able to CC me and get free dps uptime it's ridiculous.

 

And frankly, if you 3v1'd them with everyone starting at full hp, then they're terrible players or playing classes that are terrible in lowbies. But you know, I also stated in my original post that lowbie pvp doesn't matter at all for balancing issues. So invalid point is invalid.

I stopped reading right here. By worst utility you mean:

 

- only group speed buff in game

- only group dps/hps buff in game

- aoe mez

- 3s channeling stun

- 5s complete invulnerability (at a 50% hp cost)

- 4s stealth/damage reduction

- 12s snare

- healing debuff

- 6s 90% accuracy debuff

- interrupt

- 20% damage reduction that is rebuke which in most cases lasts its full duration (30s)

- saber ward (50%/25% damage reduction for 12s)

- root on leap

- small group healing (not alot but enough for 1 full heal per person over the course fo the fight)

 

yep definitely the worst utility in the game

 

Since when do defensive cooldowns count as utility? Defensive Cooldowns are defensive cooldowns.

 

And by worst utility in the game I mean:

10 second speed buff that is only useful in combat unless you spec carnage. It's not a terrible ability, but the dps loss you gain from it is quite substantial. So for utility, you hurt yourself, unlike any other class with this ability. Carnage is the one tree where I'll give you that we don't have the worst utility in the game.

 

Berserk healing, ya, 6% once every what, 40 seconds or so for all teammates in range = amazing utility amirite?

 

AoE mez is a nice ability, I said so in my original post.

 

3 second 10m channeled stun, WOO HOO! You know, every other AC in the game outside of tank juggernauts don't get at a minimum a 4 second instant stun that they get free damage up-time with and can't have a teammate interrupt so they don't have to blow a CC break on it.

 

12s snare that any class with a cure outside of maybe dps sages can cure off. Sure it's spammable if you have the rage, but it's extremely situational when it's an actually a good ability to use for utility.

 

20% heal debuff is nice, I'll grant you that.

 

Accuracy debuff is nice when you use it for group utility, I'll grant you that.

 

Interrupt - Meh, not sure what to classify this as. If you want to say utility then alright. Every class in the game outside of mercs/commandos get one, nothing really special. Sure you get a 6 sec one if you spec anni, not terrible, not uber amazing either.

 

2 second root on leap, 3 if carnage and spec for it. Can be parried to make it completely void. Really only stands out as an above mediocre ability when there are multiple leapers doing in on a single target in tandem.

 

And since you forgot to add it like I did in my original post:

Bloodthirst - 15% damage increase for all people in your party that are in range for 15 seconds. Usable twice a game. This is a pretty awesome ability when used, no denying that. But it's also countered by only being useable twice a game.

 

If you're carnage spec'd you gain:

I don't remember the exact duration of the root, but it's a 3-5 second root on a 10m range every 15 seconds from deadly throw.

 

1 extra second to force leap root

 

3 second root on ravage assuming it doesn't get parried or interrupted via CC.

 

You lose:

Berserk healing, on noes.

 

Ok, so maybe you're right. Maybe operatives beat us out for the worst utility in the game, but if we're not at the bottom of the list, we're near it.

 

And for me personally, good CC, taunts, and pulls greatly outweigh marauder utility by a large margin. Oh, and sniper roots are pretty amazing utility as well. The defensive potential in warzones with them is amazing.

 

Final note on the matter:

It's not like I'm saying marauders are weak or underpowered, I'm simply stating that we're not this god mode overpowered that so many people think we are. Not a single class in this game is godmode. We're frankly balanced quite well with this game. We were as annihilation spec pre 1.2 as well, maybe a bit OP for people who don't have a cure button / didn't know what it was, but that tree was nerfed in 1.2 with the other two being brought in line with that nerfed tree for pvp.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Giladd

[JediDuckling]

another thread on another baddie trying to make mara's and sentinels sound fine lol

 

 

HAHAHAHAHA

 

sorry but they need a nerf badly they are far from what you are making out LOL

 

 

they are god mode and the dps is stupidly strong specialy with all these defense buffs

 

 

they need a nerf plain and simple.

[Giladd]

If it was almost anyone on the forum outside of Jediduckling, I would take it seriously. Man, you are like the worst pvp forum poster on here from what I've seen with your threads.

 

Marauders are not OP. Play one in 50 brackets and you'll see why we have what we have. It's a strong class, not OP, not UP, balanced.

[Shikyo]

I kill most sorcs np, however on my server there is one that knows how to play his class to the fullest that I cannot kill due to you know, speccing correctly and using his abilities to the fullest potential for kiting when he's in dps. With how much he's able to CC me and get free dps uptime it's ridiculous.

 

And frankly, if you 3v1'd them with everyone starting at full hp, then they're terrible players or playing classes that are terrible in lowbies. But you know, I also stated in my original post that lowbie pvp doesn't matter at all for balancing issues. So invalid point is invalid.

 

 

Since when do defensive cooldowns count as utility? Defensive Cooldowns are defensive cooldowns.

 

And by worst utility in the game I mean:

10 second speed buff that is only useful in combat unless you spec carnage. It's not a terrible ability, but the dps loss you gain from it is quite substantial. So for utility, you hurt yourself, unlike any other class with this ability. Carnage is the one tree where I'll give you that we don't have the worst utility in the game.

 

Berserk healing, ya, 6% once every what, 40 seconds or so for all teammates in range = amazing utility amirite?

 

AoE mez is a nice ability, I said so in my original post.

 

3 second 10m channeled stun, WOO HOO! You know, every other AC in the game outside of tank juggernauts don't get at a minimum a 4 second instant stun that they get free damage up-time with and can't have a teammate interrupt so they don't have to blow a CC break on it.

 

12s snare that any class with a cure outside of maybe dps sages can cure off. Sure it's spammable if you have the rage, but it's extremely situational when it's an actually a good ability to use for utility.

 

20% heal debuff is nice, I'll grant you that.

 

Accuracy debuff is nice when you use it for group utility, I'll grant you that.

 

Interrupt - Meh, not sure what to classify this as. If you want to say utility then alright. Every class in the game outside of mercs/commandos get one, nothing really special. Sure you get a 6 sec one if you spec anni, not terrible, not uber amazing either.

 

2 second root on leap, 3 if carnage and spec for it. Can be parried to make it completely void. Really only stands out as an above mediocre ability when there are multiple leapers doing in on a single target in tandem.

 

And since you forgot to add it like I did in my original post:

Bloodthirst - 15% damage increase for all people in your party that are in range for 15 seconds. Usable twice a game. This is a pretty awesome ability when used, no denying that. But it's also countered by only being useable twice a game.

 

If you're carnage spec'd you gain:

I don't remember the exact duration of the root, but it's a 3-5 second root on a 10m range every 15 seconds from deadly throw.

 

1 extra second to force leap root

 

3 second root on ravage assuming it doesn't get parried or interrupted via CC.

 

You lose:

Berserk healing, on noes.

 

Ok, so maybe you're right. Maybe operatives beat us out for the worst utility in the game, but if we're not at the bottom of the list, we're near it.

 

And for me personally, good CC, taunts, and pulls greatly outweigh marauder utility by a large margin. Oh, and sniper roots are pretty amazing utility as well. The defensive potential in warzones with them is amazing.

 

Final note on the matter:

It's not like I'm saying marauders are weak or underpowered, I'm simply stating that we're not this god mode overpowered that so many people think we are. Not a single class in this game is godmode. We're frankly balanced quite well with this game. We were as annihilation spec pre 1.2 as well, maybe a bit OP for people who don't have a cure button / didn't know what it was, but that tree was nerfed in 1.2 with the other two being brought in line with that nerfed tree for pvp.

 

Hi!

I think the real thing that happened here was that bioware made adjustments to the classes that changed the skill lvl required to play certain classes. I say this because the sage/sorc nerf. The nerf increased the required skill to play the class. Before a sage/sorc healer in a skilled players hands WAS OP bottom line. Now sorc/sage healers on my server are a rare breed with mostly the skilled players playing it now while everyone else jumped ship. (which being a sage/sorc healer I still do very well).

 

Now sent/maur got a buff. Before, in the hands of a skilled player sent/mara did very will but it took skill. The buff came, lowered the required skill to play thus making the unskilled stronger and the skilled now OP.

 

A class should not have to spec, specifically, to beat one other class. That is not balance. Pretty much the only kryptonite to a sent/mara is a class heavily spec'd into CC abilities, which Sage/sorcs can do but even then a skilled sent/Mara should still win(this is suggesting they are skilled).

 

TLDR:

Noob sent/mara = skilled any other class

Skilled sent/mara > anyone else (hence why they are viewed as OP)

Pre 1.2 noob sage/sorc healer = any other healer class (could be argued they were even still better)

Skilled sage/sorc healer > any other healer and unkillable to dps classes 1v1 (hence OP).

 

The changes were in required skill to play the classes. Bioware just didn't realize how many skilled sent/Mara existed that they buffed up to OP status.

Obviously this is just my opinion based on what I've seen and experienced in the game, but hopefully it shared a different perspective for you

Happy gaming!

[L-RANDLE]

If it was almost anyone on the forum outside of Jediduckling, I would take it seriously. Man, you are like the worst pvp forum poster on here from what I've seen with your threads..

This sooo much...

 

Marauders are not OP. Play one in 50 brackets and you'll see why we have what we have. It's a strong class, not OP, not UP, balanced.

This not so much...

BEST DPS + BEST DFCD= OP'D

Offense is your defense. Then add UDR to the mix and you have a faceroll cake. Any well geared Mara/Sent in the 50 bracket is silly strong. Do I care about the intense DPS though? No, it should be high.

Just give UDR a 3min CD and all is forgiven...

[Gorgzen]

marauders are the strongest 1v1 class because they didn't give us the same utility like other classes, pulls, knockbacks, guard, etc. In a group enviroment they aren't looking OP at all.

 

Everybody here pretends like the whole game is based upon 1v1 and that if you can't 1v1 every class something is wrong. What a joke.

 

I'm one of the best marauders there is. Just because anything but tanksins / shadows are absolute food doesn't mean that by making them worse for 1v1 fighting will balance them in an 8 man game. Please keep in mind that the game should be balanced as much as possible around 8 man vs 8 man, with the different things like CC, knockback, pull, blinds, stuns etc. meshing together to form balanced PVP, and not a game where every class needs to have the same tools so everybody can fairly 1v1 eachother.

[L-RANDLE]

marauders are the strongest 1v1 class because they didn't give us the same utility like other classes, pulls, knockbacks, guard, etc. In a group enviroment they aren't looking OP at all.

 

Everybody here pretends like the whole game is based upon 1v1 and that if you can't 1v1 every class something is wrong. What a joke.

 

I'm one of the best marauders there is. Just because anything but tanksins / shadows are absolute food doesn't mean that by making them worse for 1v1 fighting will balance them in an 8 man game. Please keep in mind that the game should be balanced as much as possible around 8 man vs 8 man, with the different things like CC, knockback, pull, blinds, stuns etc. meshing together to form balanced PVP, and not a game where every class needs to have the same tools so everybody can fairly 1v1 eachother.

 

Resolve kind of throws a monkey wrench in the cc parade, wouldn't you say?

[freakinandroid]

Someone gets owned and they come cry on the forums. The end. You think a class is OP? Shut up and go make one.

[Gorgzen]

Resolve kind of throws a monkey wrench in the cc parade, wouldn't you say?

 

no, nobody told you you could CC more than one person? also, it's not like those are the only things that make classes different and useful in groups.

[Giladd]

Hi!

I think the real thing that happened here was that bioware made adjustments to the classes that changed the skill lvl required to play certain classes. I say this because the sage/sorc nerf. The nerf increased the required skill to play the class. Before a sage/sorc healer in a skilled players hands WAS OP bottom line. Now sorc/sage healers on my server are a rare breed with mostly the skilled players playing it now while everyone else jumped ship. (which being a sage/sorc healer I still do very well).

 

Now sent/maur got a buff. Before, in the hands of a skilled player sent/mara did very will but it took skill. The buff came, lowered the required skill to play thus making the unskilled stronger and the skilled now OP.

 

A class should not have to spec, specifically, to beat one other class. That is not balance. Pretty much the only kryptonite to a sent/mara is a class heavily spec'd into CC abilities, which Sage/sorcs can do but even then a skilled sent/Mara should still win(this is suggesting they are skilled).

 

TLDR:

Noob sent/mara = skilled any other class

Skilled sent/mara > anyone else (hence why they are viewed as OP)

Pre 1.2 noob sage/sorc healer = any other healer class (could be argued they were even still better)

Skilled sage/sorc healer > any other healer and unkillable to dps classes 1v1 (hence OP).

 

The changes were in required skill to play the classes. Bioware just didn't realize how many skilled sent/Mara existed that they buffed up to OP status.

Obviously this is just my opinion based on what I've seen and experienced in the game, but hopefully it shared a different perspective for you

Happy gaming!

 

Quite possibly has changed skill wise, before if you were terrible at a mara/sent you were a completely wasted slot on the team. I still personally view it that way based off of my experiences on my server. And with that said, I can 1v1 just about anyone on my server, however one person that stands out that I can't is a sage named Hype. It's mainly due to his spec that I honestly don't see why you wouldn't run something similar on a sage for pvp as either healer or dps (he varies between specs per role he's looking to perform, but pretty much keeps the same utility regardless and is the top sage/sorc player on server regardless of the role he fills), But that's for pure pvp, if you PvE and obviously don't want to spend a lot respec'ing, I can see why people wouldn't roll it.

 

This sooo much...

 

 

This not so much...

BEST DPS + BEST DFCD= OP'D

Offense is your defense. Then add UDR to the mix and you have a faceroll cake. Any well geared Mara/Sent in the 50 bracket is silly strong. Do I care about the intense DPS though? No, it should be high.

Just give UDR a 3min CD and all is forgiven...

 

We have the same survivability as an operative out of stealth when we don't have DCD's up, so since we don't get stealth and have terrible CC, we get DCDs.

 

Resolve kind of throws a monkey wrench in the cc parade, wouldn't you say?

Roots ignore resolve and are as effective as a stun for marauders.

[L-RANDLE]

no, nobody told you you could CC more than one person? also, it's not like those are the only things that make classes different and useful in groups.

 

Well you give us ways to stop you, then tell us to not use them on you (or sparingly).

They are bulls in a china shop regardless of the situation. In objective based PvP, if you have someone keeping you up, 1 talented mar/sent can keep an entire team at bay. Group, solo, it don't matter. Having the best DFCD is a touch much, but just nerf the CD to 3mins...

[L-RANDLE]

Quite possibly has changed skill wise, before if you were terrible at a mara/sent you were a completely wasted slot on the team. I still personally view it that way based off of my experiences on my server. And with that said, I can 1v1 just about anyone on my server, however one person that stands out that I can't is a sage named Hype. It's mainly due to his spec that I honestly don't see why you wouldn't run something similar on a sage for pvp as either healer or dps (he varies between specs per role he's looking to perform, but pretty much keeps the same utility regardless and is the top sage/sorc player on server regardless of the role he fills), But that's for pure pvp, if you PvE and obviously don't want to spend a lot respec'ing, I can see why people wouldn't roll it.

 

 

 

We have the same survivability as an operative out of stealth when we don't have DCD's up, so since we don't get stealth and have terrible CC, we get DCDs.

 

 

Roots ignore resolve and are as effective as a stun for marauders.

 

Not all roots. And I see mara disappearing all the time. What is that?

Edited May 30, 2012 by L-RANDLE

[ProKsnNwk]

I kill most sorcs np, however on my server there is one that knows how to play his class to the fullest that I cannot kill due to you know, speccing correctly and using his abilities to the fullest potential for kiting when he's in dps. With how much he's able to CC me and get free dps uptime it's ridiculous.

 

And frankly, if you 3v1'd them with everyone starting at full hp, then they're terrible players or playing classes that are terrible in lowbies. But you know, I also stated in my original post that lowbie pvp doesn't matter at all for balancing issues. So invalid point is invalid.

 

 

Since when do defensive cooldowns count as utility? Defensive Cooldowns are defensive cooldowns.

 

And by worst utility in the game I mean:

10 second speed buff that is only useful in combat unless you spec carnage. It's not a terrible ability, but the dps loss you gain from it is quite substantial. So for utility, you hurt yourself, unlike any other class with this ability. Carnage is the one tree where I'll give you that we don't have the worst utility in the game.

 

Berserk healing, ya, 6% once every what, 40 seconds or so for all teammates in range = amazing utility amirite?

 

AoE mez is a nice ability, I said so in my original post.

 

3 second 10m channeled stun, WOO HOO! You know, every other AC in the game outside of tank juggernauts don't get at a minimum a 4 second instant stun that they get free damage up-time with and can't have a teammate interrupt so they don't have to blow a CC break on it.

 

12s snare that any class with a cure outside of maybe dps sages can cure off. Sure it's spammable if you have the rage, but it's extremely situational when it's an actually a good ability to use for utility.

 

20% heal debuff is nice, I'll grant you that.

 

Accuracy debuff is nice when you use it for group utility, I'll grant you that.

 

Interrupt - Meh, not sure what to classify this as. If you want to say utility then alright. Every class in the game outside of mercs/commandos get one, nothing really special. Sure you get a 6 sec one if you spec anni, not terrible, not uber amazing either.

 

2 second root on leap, 3 if carnage and spec for it. Can be parried to make it completely void. Really only stands out as an above mediocre ability when there are multiple leapers doing in on a single target in tandem.

 

And since you forgot to add it like I did in my original post:

Bloodthirst - 15% damage increase for all people in your party that are in range for 15 seconds. Usable twice a game. This is a pretty awesome ability when used, no denying that. But it's also countered by only being useable twice a game.

 

If you're carnage spec'd you gain:

I don't remember the exact duration of the root, but it's a 3-5 second root on a 10m range every 15 seconds from deadly throw.

 

1 extra second to force leap root

 

3 second root on ravage assuming it doesn't get parried or interrupted via CC.

 

You lose:

Berserk healing, on noes.

 

Ok, so maybe you're right. Maybe operatives beat us out for the worst utility in the game, but if we're not at the bottom of the list, we're near it.

 

And for me personally, good CC, taunts, and pulls greatly outweigh marauder utility by a large margin. Oh, and sniper roots are pretty amazing utility as well. The defensive potential in warzones with them is amazing.

 

Final note on the matter:

It's not like I'm saying marauders are weak or underpowered, I'm simply stating that we're not this god mode overpowered that so many people think we are. Not a single class in this game is godmode. We're frankly balanced quite well with this game. We were as annihilation spec pre 1.2 as well, maybe a bit OP for people who don't have a cure button / didn't know what it was, but that tree was nerfed in 1.2 with the other two being brought in line with that nerfed tree for pvp.

 

I was just saying about low lvl pvp, but on lvl 50 pvp I'm still able to kill 1 vs 2, and maybe sometimes 1 vs 3.

[Laksmanaya]

Anyone saying about utility on a marauder/sentinel, tell me how it's worse than a commando/merc. 1 CC, 1 Mez, no root, no pull, no leap, 1 defense CD, no interrupt. Play one and tell me how marauders suck.

[Tatebomb]

Anyone saying about utility on a marauder/sentinel, tell me how it's worse than a commando/merc. 1 CC, 1 Mez, no root, no pull, no leap, 1 defense CD, no interrupt. Play one and tell me how marauders suck.

 

Dont forget the KB's they have. One of em if talented flings you halfway across the map lol.

[Giladd]

Anyone saying about utility on a marauder/sentinel, tell me how it's worse than a commando/merc. 1 CC, 1 Mez, no root, no pull, no leap, 1 defense CD, no interrupt. Play one and tell me how marauders suck.

 

My first 50 was a merc actually. Gameplay of it was really boring to me so I rerolled in jan and got a 2nd 50 in feb. Still play it occasionally.

 

Heals are nice, 2 KBs are very nice, non-channeled stun, instant mez, 20% armor pen for your entire ops if arsenal, amazing snares in pyro, lackluster snares in arsenal.

 

Kbs are fairly undervalued, but they are quite nice for utility.

 

Although, I'll admit to being wrong with using the word Utility for what marauders severely lack, I probably should have said CC instead since that's what I lined up in my mind more so than utility. Still will have to say though that non-carnage spec'd marauders are one of the worst Utility classes in the game, but not the worst.

 

Not all roots. And I see mara disappearing all the time. What is that?

 

Roots aren't effected by resolve. Only time they don't go off is if they're on an ability that can be parried/dodged/etc.. which is what all the marauder roots are on. Roots are different than stuns / mezzes though, so make sure you have your terminology right.

 

Mara disappearing = Force Camo, 4 second invis that doesn't drop you out of combat, 45 second cooldown.

 

I was just saying about low lvl pvp, but on lvl 50 pvp I'm still able to kill 1 vs 2, and maybe sometimes 1 vs 3.

 

Then those players are terrible or you're exaggerating. I've 1v3'd / 1v2'd people on my marauder, but those players were terrible and if at least one of them were competent, I would have lost. But it's not like it's just marauders that can do that, I've seen PTs, Assassins, Juggs and even an exceptional sage and merc do it. 1v2 and 1v3 situations are dependent on player skill more than anything else, outside of a major gear gap like 300+ expertise for 1v2, 500+ for 1v3+.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Giladd