Mara/Sent final thoughts

[HurricaneXXIV]

Currently using 24 on my vanguard. That count does not include mark target 1-4, target nearest ally (for quick guard switches) and the like, nor does it include pure PvE skills like Bliz.. It does include auto attack as Vanguards must manage their ressources in ways marauders never ever bothered.

 

 

Tanks in this game are either a small bush or an impassable wall. In this game tanks are one of the best support classes there is. They do quite a bit of target swapping. I think a great tank is one of the hardest things in this game to play.

[BoMbY]

If some of them I've fought the last two days aren't cheating, the class is way OP and needs an urgent nerf.

[criminalheretic]

The problem with all the nerf cries for Sent/Maras is that they are full of anecdotal feedback, about "this one time I was fighting a Marauder and...". BW doesn't look at data like that. They are gonna run a data analysis program.

 

That program will show that Marauders die as often if not more than any other class.

 

That program will show that their total DPS is on par with or slightly higher than Sins, Sorcs, and Snipers, and perhaps even lower on average, than PT's and Vanguards.

 

That program will show that Marauder heavy teams don't have a higher winning % than teams heavy in any other class.

 

Statistically Marauders are not OP, despite all the stories about "this one time a Marauder took out my whole team in 3 seconds."

 

Someone complains that he can't kill a Marauder, a Marauder says L2P.

 

A Marauder such as myself says "I die all the time", everyone else says "You must be a horrible Marauder, L2P".

 

The only thing I would ask, is whenever you are sure you're about to kill a Marauder, and he pops UR or Camo, and you rage because he "stole your kill" or went into "Godmode". Look at the death totals at the end of the match. See that he died as much as the other members of his team (Not you or your team). You see a Marauder with 1 death while the other 7 people on his team died 8-10 times each? By all means come on here and rage, post a screenshot. But don't rage about an individual fight, in a WZ that invloves 53 individual fights.

[criminalheretic]

Why shouldn't the non stealth melee class with the lowest mitigation not have the best defensive cool downs? At the end of matches Mara's still die the same amount as anyone else.

 

In this game range is still the best defense.

 

Haven't you heard? Armor doesn't count. Neither does range apparently. People don't seem to get that anytime you are attacking someone that can't hit you back, you are technically using an ability with 100% damage mitigation.

[Twor]

The problem with all the nerf cries for Sent/Maras is that they are full of anecdotal feedback, about "this one time I was fighting a Marauder and...". BW doesn't look at data like that. They are gonna run a data analysis program.

 

That program will show that Marauders die as often if not more than any other class.

 

That program will show that their total DPS is on par with or slightly higher than Sins, Sorcs, and Snipers, and perhaps even lower on average, than PT's and Vanguards.

 

That program will show that Marauder heavy teams don't have a higher winning % than teams heavy in any other class.

 

Statistically Marauders are not OP, despite all the stories about "this one time a Marauder took out my whole team in 3 seconds."

 

Someone complains that he can't kill a Marauder, a Marauder says L2P.

 

A Marauder such as myself says "I die all the time", everyone else says "You must be a horrible Marauder, L2P".

 

The only thing I would ask, is whenever you are sure you're about to kill a Marauder, and he pops UR or Camo, and you rage because he "stole your kill" or went into "Godmode". Look at the death totals at the end of the match. See that he died as much as the other members of his team (Not you or your team). You see a Marauder with 1 death while the other 7 people on his team died 8-10 times each? By all means come on here and rage, post a screenshot. But don't rage about an individual fight, in a WZ that invloves 53 individual fights.

 

Or someone just looks at the defensive skills of sents/marauders, realizes that with the rising damage that was introduced with expertise buff low cd defensive abilities influence (e.g. your "analysis program" runs ttl while in combat without recieving outside healing) has risen sigificantly That program will probably also be able to calculate damage reduced/absorbed by abilities, and see how much damage is needed to kill a marauder (again without outside healing). Do you think the number of actual damage needed to kill a marauder with full CDs is anynthing that any other class could eat without dying atleast twice?

 

You die all the time, but any other class in a situation you die in would have been dead a long time before you as no class has an comparable amount of defensive CDs.

 

And damagewise Marauders usually are top3 in the charts on my server. And their damage is single target damage if they are not focus equivalent specced. Something else you data program will notify.

 

*edit* and at your armor argument, in another thread someone provided the difference between wh medium and heavy armor. 8% on two damage types.

Edited May 27, 2012 by Twor

[Zepidel]

Ah the old "marauders are balanced because they have to use lots of hotkeys" argument.

I use close to 30 hotkeys on my scrapper, can I have survivability now?

[Twor]

Ah the old "marauders are balanced because they have to use lots of hotkeys" argument.

I use close to 30 hotkeys on my scrapper, can I have survivability now?

 

Hush, OPs get another nerf in 1.3 probably

[crrypto]

Please tell me the other class that manages 22+ situational hotkeys.

 

I'm so sick of hearing this tired argument.

 

My Pyro Merc has 22 class abilities hot keyed that I use regularly. I have a total of 36 hot keys that I use regularly including this grenades, adrenals, relics, medpacs, etc.

Edited May 27, 2012 by crrypto

[criminalheretic]

Or someone just looks at the defensive skills of sents/marauders, realizes that with the rising damage that was introduced with expertise buff low cd defensive abilities influence (e.g. your "analysis program" runs ttl while in combat without recieving outside healing) has risen sigificantly That program will probably also be able to calculate damage reduced/absorbed by abilities, and see how much damage is needed to kill a marauder (again without outside healing). Do you think the number of actual damage needed to kill a marauder with full CDs is anynthing that any other class could eat without dying atleast twice?

 

Yet as I said, we still die as much as other classes. Take away those defensive CD's we die 2x as much as other classes, we die 2x as much as other classes we drop from "top 3" in damage to top 6, for a "Pure DPS" class, that's balance? Forgetting for a second that the amount of damage we eat is nowhere near what a healer eats, stating that we eat 2x as much ignores the fact that WE HAVE TO. Marauders have to put themselves in a position to take damage, to deal damage.

 

You die all the time, but any other class in a situation you die in would have been dead a long time before you as no class has an comparable amount of defensive CDs.

 

Yet once again, despite the fact that every other class would die twice as much in the same situation, at the end of the WZ, every other class has NOT died 2x as much. So now you're actually saying we SHOULD die 2x as much as other classes? "Any other class in a situation you die in" The operative word being "situation". So yes if a sniper charges into melee range of 5 people, yes they will die 2x as much as a Marauder. Yes you're right.

 

And damagewise Marauders usually are top3 in the charts on my server. And their damage is single target damage if they are not focus equivalent specced. Something else you data program will notify.

 

Yes, pure damage class with no protect, or healing, should defintely be at least top three in damage, we're not gonna be top 3 in healing... But you are alluding to the popular misconception, that "600k damage is nice for stats, but doesn't really 'count' towards winning a WZ". Math disagrees. People have a finite number of hitpoints. You take away 600k, you are greatly contributing to many many people dying, even if you don't get the personal satisfaction of seeing them fall before you. This is the archers softening the field before the cavalry, not as "glorious" but no less vital.

 

*edit* and at your armor argument, in another thread someone provided the difference between wh medium and heavy armor. 8% on two damage types.

 

8%, all match long, no CD OR Activation, plus whichever ability they were granted at the level when we were granted our corresponding defensive CD

[Fdzzaigl]

I am so tired of arrogant Marauder players saying you "should roll one, because it requires so much more skill than class XYZ", for the love of...

 

Get over your superiority complex and maybe roll a damn other class yourself and then try to beat a skilled mara in actual PvP, then try not to be irritated when you face teams with 3-4 mara's who can hold out on a point basically forever as you try to peel their layers of defense.

 

For the record, your class doesn't even have the most "buttons to press", assassins have more for example. And buttons to press in your rotation doesn't even begin to equal skill.

 

Seeing the numbers of players who actually rolled Mara's and are now swarming warzones with them, your argument of "roll one yourself" is just incredibly hollow when faced with people who actually didn't go for FOTM.

Edited May 27, 2012 by Fdzzaigl

[Shadenuat]

I rolled mara myself, in a spec that is supposed to be not "overpowered" (Carnage). I murder people, and my two combos consist of two buttons (Gore > Ravage; Berserk > Massacre) and one regain (BA). It's supposed to be spec which proves that, if you can play it well, you are a better marauder. Of course, there are fillers/shields/jump/camo/finishers, but that's what every other class has.

I also do well on huttball when save my jump/predation. What am I doing wrong, why it's not hard 2Play?

Edited May 27, 2012 by Shadenuat

[RenegadeSLX]

I rolled mara myself, in a spec that is supposed to be not "overpowered" (Carnage). I murder people, and my two combos consist of two buttons (Gore > Ravage; Berserk > Massacre) and one regain (BA). It's supposed to be spec which proves that, if you can play it well, you are a better marauder. Of course, there are fillers/shields/jump/camo/finishers, but that's what every other class has.

I also do well on huttball when save my jump/predation. What am I doing wrong, why it's not hard 2Play?

 

This game is easy. Every class is easy. We just have some TERRIBLE pvpers.

[Drayu]

Please tell me the other class that manages 22+ situational hotkeys.

 

Hi, I play a assault commando. I have:

 

25 in combat class abilities binded, which I use frequently on cooldown.

This doesn't include: recuperate, buffs, "auras", combat ress, and few abilities I don't use in pvp.

 

+1 for medpack

+2 for relics

+1 for adrenal

+1 for passing in hutball

 

So that's 30, for a class that everyone labels as "free kill".

 

Maybe if you played other classes you would realize everyone has about the same amount of abilities to deal with.

[Omega-one]

I am so tired of arrogant Marauder players saying you "should roll one, because it requires so much more skill than class XYZ", for the love of...

 

Get over your superiority complex and maybe roll a damn other class yourself and then try to beat a skilled mara in actual PvP, then try not to be irritated when you face teams with 3-4 mara's who can hold out on a point basically forever as you try to peel their layers of defense.

 

For the record, your class doesn't even have the most "buttons to press", assassins have more for example. And buttons to press in your rotation doesn't even begin to equal skill.

 

Seeing the numbers of players who actually rolled Mara's and are now swarming warzones with them, your argument of "roll one yourself" is just incredibly hollow when faced with people who actually didn't go for FOTM.

 

i have a 50 BM sage, a 50 BM BH, and my sentinal. I have played extensively on my brother in laws shadow and operative.

 

the only class that comes close to being difficult in operative.

 

 

sadly, the only reason i still play this game is becuase i found sentinel to actually be a slight challenge. that is quickly fading.

[Twor]

8%, all match long, no CD OR Activation, plus whichever ability they were granted at the level when we were granted our corresponding defensive CD

 

Please don't twist my words (In reagrds of the text you put in the qoute). I said that marauders take far more damage on the average to get killed than any other class. Nothing that they should die twice as often or such.

 

Ever tried playing a melee class that doesn't have so many oh s*it buttons, that has to choose their encounters and to think carefully about them? Thats something marauders don't need too bother with.

 

The 8% are, again, on 2 damagetypes.

And my answer with damageoutput was to your argument that their damage is not that high. Which now you somehow think it is.

Edited May 28, 2012 by Twor

[Orangerascal]

Please tell me the other class that manages 22+ situational hotkeys.

 

Please .... every class uses a lot of keybinds and using that as the basis of your argument just proves how much "fail" the argument is:

 

The '3 button sage' the OP mentioned earlier actually requires these keybinds: (using my build 2/21/18 build)

 

DPS

1) Weaken Mind

2) Force in Balance

3) Force Quake

4) Disturbance

5) Mind Crush

6) Project

7) Telekenitic Throw

8) Tekekinetic Wave

 

Heals/Shields

9) Benevolence

10) Force Armor

11) Deliverance

 

Utility

12) Rescue

13) Restoration

14) Force Slow

15) Mind Snap

16) Noble Sacrifice

17) Force Potency

18) Force Stun

19) Force Lift

20) Force Wave

21) Mental Alacrity

22) Force of Will

23) Force Speed

 

Consumables

24) Relic 1

25) Relic 2

26) PVP Medpac

27) PVP Adrenal

 

So I have 23 keybind (27 counting stims and relics)... 1 more than you, does this mean you're a scrub since your definition of skill = more keybinds ?

 

P.S. I have even more keybinds on my scoundrel

Edited May 28, 2012 by Orangerascal