ToR is a success, dont feed no trolls.

[Typeslice]

Such a perfect example of my previous statement.

 

Your original statement is that "we gotta admit there are a lot of haters on the forums".

 

So, on the same token, I will say that we also have to admit there are a lot of fanboys on the forums, who will ignore all problems, call all complainers "haters" and defend a dying game to the last breath. The author of that article is one of those people.

 

So please, leave these great mediocre attempts at placating the masses through rampant fanboyism and ignorance of fact out of here, thanks!

 

Just because someone enjoys the game and doesn't believe the hate on the forums is indicative of the true state of the game doesn't make them a fanboi. And why does everyone always try to state "facts" in their posts when 99% are blatant opinions and presumptions?

 

Simple answer? It's probably not as bad or as good as either side thinks.

[hulkweazel]

Only played each Rakghoul one once, and to me, they were enjoyable. And Denova is not boring. It probably boild down the fact that we're part of different player bases - TBH, story takes a back-burner to me as long as the content/gameplay is solid. Denova bosses are fun and offer more of a challenge than the previous tier - works for me.

...And this is why you think they are enjoyable.

 

I enjoyed all the FPs, all the Operations, the first time. Maybe even the second or third time as well. But Bowser is completely right. They just become a boring, mindless grind after that. There is no challenge other than "tank and spank, don't stand in the bad". There is no variation from one fight to another. And besides that, you still had to trudge through a billion trash mob pulls that weren't even difficult, they were just trash.

 

Lost Island was a step in the right direction. But that's just it, it's just a step. Denova, after clearing it several times is just boring now.

[daveydiablo]

OP, the title implies that everyone who does not share the opinion that TOR is a success, is a troll.

 

That doesn't seem like a particularly enlightened point of view.

 

Rather than criticise the splendidly bias article that you reposted I'd like to comment on your own input.

 

http://torwars.com/2012/05/23/open-tor-policy-the-trolled-republic/

EDIT: i agree with those who say, that complaining is not trolling, i have never said i agree with every part of this article.

On the BF3 forum i was complaining all the time beacuse of the false marketing etc....

But we gotta admit that there are a lot of haters on the forums, not only here but on every forum who only use the forums they post in to generate hate.

 

It appears when you have issues with something that it's ok to complain.

At what point does complaining become trolling?

At what level of frustration is it ok for players who feel cheated by false marketing, to start being negative at the broad spectrum of other problems that a game has, and eventually spell out doom for what they see as a sorely missed opportunity?

 

As for admitting that there are a lot of "haters" on the forums, I feel that the most ignorant, abusive and downright ****** posts have come from players stubbornly defending the game beyond all sense and reason.

[Evironrage]

Did some recon this morning just to see how populated some servers were. I conducted these from about 9:45am-10:05am PST. These are a mix of both west coast and east coast servers. The incoming numbers are server wide.

Fatman repub PvP- 100

Jedi Covenant repub PvE- 100

Mask of Nihilus repub PvE- 47 (home server and I was surprised there were this many on)

Soresu emp PvE- 60

Kaiburr Crystal emp PvE- 50

Wall of Light emp PvE- 45

Kath Hound repub RP- 73

Ven Zallow repub RP-PvP- 50

Rakata Mind Prison emp PvP- 50

Veela emp PvP- 24

I say per server this game needs a minimum of 10-20 times those numbers to be viable or you just won't find enough players to do heroics or lvl appropriate FPs with. Can this game return to those numbers? With a few tweeks and some painful choices the answer is yes.

Condense servers now before it is too late BW.

[Typeslice]

...And this is why you think they are enjoyable.

 

I enjoyed all the FPs, all the Operations, the first time. Maybe even the second or third time as well. But Bowser is completely right. They just become a boring, mindless grind after that. There is no challenge other than "tank and spank, don't stand in the bad". There is no variation from one fight to another. And besides that, you still had to trudge through a billion trash mob pulls that weren't even difficult, they were just trash.

 

Lost Island was a step in the right direction. But that's just it, it's just a step. Denova, after clearing it several times is just boring now.

 

Run Denova on hard, bro.

[Urael]

It appears when you have issues with something that it's ok to complain.

At what point does complaining become trolling?

At what level of frustration is it ok for players who feel cheated by false marketing, to start being negative at the broad spectrum of other problems that a game has, and eventually spell out doom for what they see as a sorely missed opportunity?

 

As for admitting that there are a lot of "haters" on the forums, I feel that the most ignorant, abusive and downright ****** posts have come from players stubbornly defending the game beyond all sense and reason.

 

QFT!

 

Agree!

 

This one is wise!

[TUXs]

You will soon. And morale will start to increase, and along with that an influx of subs.

 

Here's why:

 

The original plan was to open a plethora of servers to make launch go smooth. Worked like a charm. Best launch in MMO history. The next step of that plan was to use the server transfer software BioWare had ready since beta to cull the servers back a few months later.

 

Enter the QA failure: An element of Legacy, probably a "last-minute addition" talked about in TOR's podcast, broke the server transfer software they were going to implement shortly after 1.2. BioWare is now left with a decision: completely pull 1.2 and all its content and Legacy to rework the issue and go ahead with transfers, or leave it as is, and scramble to rebuild the server transfer software.

 

Neither decision is a good one. They chose to leave 1.2 in and rebuild the server transfer software.

 

That left us with too many servers still open way past their intended life span. Which results in LOTS of players with decaying morales, which causes these low-morale players to have decreased tolerance of other bugs and annoying lack of desired features, leading to cancelled subs which further exacerbates the whole issue.

 

The resulting low morale is having very far-reaching effects into the rest of the game. For example, people are thinking there isn't any content, when TOR actually has more endgame content than even Rift did at 5 months old.

 

However, had they decided to pull 1.2 and go on with server transfers, the result would arguably not be much different than it is now.

 

I suspect that's why the QA department is experiencing a restructure.

 

That would be a fine theory...if the staff working on the game was only a handful of people. But they have/had 600+ employees this week...IF something in Legacy broke the character transfer that you seem to think was in beta (I was in beta and don't recall it), why not have 100 employees stop what they're doing and fix it?!

 

Maybe you're right...but given the sheer number of employees they had, I can't believe it for even a moment.

 

However...I'm very fond of you link to all of the QA openings THANK GOD!!!!! THAT gives me hope tbh.

[Typeslice]

...And this is why you think they are enjoyable.

 

I enjoyed all the FPs, all the Operations, the first time. Maybe even the second or third time as well. But Bowser is completely right. They just become a boring, mindless grind after that. There is no challenge other than "tank and spank, don't stand in the bad". There is no variation from one fight to another. And besides that, you still had to trudge through a billion trash mob pulls that weren't even difficult, they were just trash.

 

Lost Island was a step in the right direction. But that's just it, it's just a step. Denova, after clearing it several times is just boring now.

 

Also, I had no reason to re-run them - but if friends/guildies asked to, I would.

[vaknyuszi]

...And this is why you think they are enjoyable.

 

I enjoyed all the FPs, all the Operations, the first time. Maybe even the second or third time as well. But Bowser is completely right. They just become a boring, mindless grind after that. There is no challenge other than "tank and spank, don't stand in the bad". There is no variation from one fight to another. And besides that, you still had to trudge through a billion trash mob pulls that weren't even difficult, they were just trash.

 

Lost Island was a step in the right direction. But that's just it, it's just a step. Denova, after clearing it several times is just boring now.

i think it is a subjective thing, who enjoys what

[Tenceriker]

Nice try OP but no amount of spin can make TOR into a success with its current content, bugs, population issues, etc. If Biowware only learned from our friends at RIFT maybe this game would have stood a chance.

[Lurchy]

community manager has just been fired so i hope thats an answer for you

 

I am perfectly aware that SR got canned but you know, the idea of firing a guy that you think was doing his job badly is to immediately put somebody (even a caretaker role) in the position to do what was not being done/being done badly

[mcburly]

good article, totally true. This game reminds me of another mmo that had a rocky start and that mmo is now boasting 10+million subs. SWTOR will be fine.

[vincent-]

Was swg a success? Probably not but 8 years worth of subs made up and regained profit I don't know how the system of were money goes works?

 

But just because this game made a lot of money at the start doesn't matter if the longevity goes down. I haven't even logged in for weeks I have been playing bastion.

 

Which I need to finish and messing around with portal twos test chamber maker. Now I got diablo to mess with heck is see the flaws in that game and I still had a bit of more fun with that than this game as of the moment.

[JeramieCrowe]

and that has what to do with the rest of my post.....

 

Because if it's actually 150 million, your math is off. Wasn't that obvious?

[TUXs]

They are. Maybe not at the Thee-content-patches-a-month-RIT-NOA! Speed that you want, but they are.

 

If I saw the toxic spew and lies that frequently fly around the GD I wouldn't want to talk to you guys either...

 

If they set specific dates then if that date gets pushed by a weekend then the forums will fill to the brim with "Serious Discussion: TOR patch moved back three days. Are you staying subbed?" dribble. Best to be get a general time frame like "early summer" and when the patch arrives in early summer they have fulfilled their promise.

 

You do matter... you matter roughly $15 a month. That is $0.50 a day. I have taken a friend out for dinner before and spent more on his alcohol than what this game costs a month. If you paid them thousands of dollars a month then you can jump on a soapbox and demand restitution. Until then pipe down.

 

I want what they promised

"We have our Update 1.2 coming in the next week and then after that it's going to continue to roll out month after month. It's exciting"

 

and this

 

"stunning Open World PVP on Ilum; when you get to the high levels prepare to be blown away! In addition to that high level PVP content, expect new Warzones and new PvP features on a regular basis."

 

The way people act here is no different than ANY other game forum. Getting their feelings hurt is no excuse to ignore their customers. Mods do a great job of keeping most threads and posts within the rules. Fake praise HURTS the game more than negative opinions.

 

You're wrong. You've been proven wrong as well. They told us they'd have ranked WZ's in 1.2...the day they were pulled, there was a LOT of understanding. 6 weeks since, with not ONE word on the topic, of course people are frustrated. We've been lied to.

 

Don't tell me to "pipe down" lol. My views on this game are just as valid as any other players and I assure you I'm a helluva lot more open minded than most. I'm well aware of how the community feels right now and SOMETHING needs to happen SOON!

[JeramieCrowe]

That would be a fine theory...if the staff working on the game was only a handful of people. But they have/had 600+ employees this week...IF something in Legacy broke the character transfer that you seem to think was in beta (I was in beta and don't recall it), why not have 100 employees stop what they're doing and fix it?!

 

Maybe you're right...but given the sheer number of employees they had, I can't believe it for even a moment.

 

However...I'm very fond of you link to all of the QA openings THANK GOD!!!!! THAT gives me hope tbh.

 

Wait, what? They had transfer software since beta, not in beta. What are you talking about? I really think you need to reread my post carefully. You obviously misunderstood it.

 

The server transfer software wasn't broken until after 1.2 was rolled out, and by 1.2. Thus the quandary that put BioWare in that I lined out in my post, which doesn't matter how many they had to work on it.

 

And it's not a theory, it actually happened.

Edited May 24, 2012 by JeramieCrowe

[Mallorik]

OP, the title implies that everyone who does not share the opinion that TOR is a success, is a troll.

 

That doesn't seem like a particularly enlightened point of view.

 

Rather than criticise the splendidly bias article that you reposted I'd like to comment on your own input.

 

 

 

It appears when you have issues with something that it's ok to complain.

At what point does complaining become trolling?

At what level of frustration is it ok for players who feel cheated by false marketing, to start being negative at the broad spectrum of other problems that a game has, and eventually spell out doom for what they see as a sorely missed opportunity?

 

As for admitting that there are a lot of "haters" on the forums, I feel that the most ignorant, abusive and downright ****** posts have come from players stubbornly defending the game beyond all sense and reason.

 

Just blew that article out of the water.

 

I dont think this game is dead yet, i dont think that bioware has lost money yet and even though this game has been pretty much unplayable for me for the last month i dont really feel cheated. I think theyre trying to fix it but i think they released with a very poor understanding of the mmo genre.

 

Also if they didnt have the star wars ip i would have definately just left this game months ago, but if they are going to keep the ip tied up for years and years it better not be in a crappy half dead mmo on life support like swg , keeping another more competent game company from making a good star wars mmo.

Edited May 24, 2012 by Mallorik

[Neloth]

Yea from any kind of objective measurement such as financials TOR is a great success, despite the recent downturn in subs, the subjective criteria for various forum members migt not agree, not that it matters much really, the forums is a hotspot for whiners while the satisfied folks play the game.

[JeramieCrowe]

I want what they promised

"We have our Update 1.2 coming in the next week and then after that it's going to continue to roll out month after month. It's exciting"

 

and this

 

At the time they made that statement, they didn't know that the 1.2 coming out "next week" was going break server transfers and wreak havoc. Now, if they didn't change their priorities after that happened, that would be bad.

[Jett-Rinn]

good article, totally true. This game reminds me of another mmo that had a rocky start and that mmo is now boasting 10+million subs. SWTOR will be fine.

 

It will be, but I know it will never see WoW's numbers, I think one of the biggest detriments to the game are those people that spend eight to sixteen hours a day bashing it. I'm not talking about those who criticize because the want the game to do better...further I think one of the reasons Stephen was let go was because he was way too soft on these guys.

 

I do think that we are about to see some changes not only in upcoming features but also how Bioware handles TORchan.

 

It should be interesting to say the least.

[vaknyuszi]

Yea from any kind of objective measurement such as financials TOR is a great success, despite the recent downturn in subs, the subjective criteria for various forum members migt not agree, not that it matters much really, the forums is a hotspot for whiners while the satisfied folks play the game.

 

exactly but sometime those who enjoy the game and play it come to the forums and post something positive

[MajikMyst]

You bring up great points, but don't discount Quarterly Earnings reports, and EA's forecasts that were largely based around SWTOR. These are numbers that don't lie.

 

If you actually think that TOR is the only think that effect EA stock.. Sorry.. But you have a very limited view of stocks, profit, and what effects what..

 

No.. The numbers don't lie.. You just don't know how to read them..

[TUXs]

At the time they made that statement, they didn't know that the 1.2 coming out "next week" was going break server transfers and wreak havoc. Now, if they didn't change their priorities after that happened, that would be bad.

 

Is that just a guess on your part? Why do you think that? Can you link me what you've based that assumption off of?! They did all the EU servers manually I thought...why do you think there was some secret tool?

[JeramieCrowe]

That would be a fine theory...if the staff working on the game was only a handful of people. But they have/had 600+ employees this week...IF something in Legacy broke the character transfer that you seem to think was in beta (I was in beta and don't recall it), why not have 100 employees stop what they're doing and fix it?!

 

Maybe you're right...but given the sheer number of employees they had, I can't believe it for even a moment.

 

However...I'm very fond of you link to all of the QA openings THANK GOD!!!!! THAT gives me hope tbh.

 

Also, forgot to add that BioWare doesn't have a zero-sum dev team. It would them no good to stop other teams to work on rebuilding transfer software because it wouldn't help. In fact, too many would probably actually hinder it. Too many cooks, and all that.

[Mallorik]

It will be, but I know it will never see WoW's numbers, I think one of the biggest detriments to the game are those people that spend eight to sixteen hours a day bashing it. I'm not talking about those who criticize because the want the game to do better...further I think one of the reasons Stephen was let go was because he was way too soft on these guys.

 

I do think that we are about to see some changes not only in upcoming features but also how Bioware handles TORchan.

 

It should be interesting to say the least.

 

If swtor broke into the chinese market like wow did i would expect 10m, i dont care if swtor ever does, a game doesnt need 10m to do very well. Wow has around 4-5m subs in north america and the EU, i think swtor was definately heading that way at launch and is totaly capable as an ip to surpass that, now its all on bioware.