Project is getting fixed!!!!!

[Kovaos]

That is for shadows, you may notice this is consular forums so sages are here too.

 

The same would apply for sages too eh? Force Slow is just so Force efficient.

[Dyvim]

It specifically says they're changing it so the skills are mirrored better. I'd just like to know what they officially decided to do. Are they going to use force burst? The force push animation? Speed up the current iteration? Or are they slowing down Shock? Any of those solve the delay problem, although some are distinctly lacking "cool factor." Also, if they're scrapping the current rock animation, are they changing the others like TK throw and kinetic ward?

 

Some kind of official word, or even an official "leaning this way" would be greatly appreciated.

 

I agree completely. The devil is in the details at this point. I really hope they dont mess up shock in some stupid effort to keep jedi junk throwing...I hope they have been paying attention...oh well, we will see.

[DarthOvertone]

We just wanted to give you all a quick thanks for your feedback, opinions, and suggestions regarding the Project animation. Please know that we are always listening and are always reading the forums, so never hesitate to leave constructive feedback or opinions for us.

 

Only took 6 months or so, longer if you include the feedback in Beta. Better late than never I guess.

 

Now about that Force Wave animation...

Edited May 24, 2012 by DarthOvertone

[Aurojiin]

Deeper in that thread, there is a lot of good commentary by many of the more active and competent Shadows in the game with respect to PVP. It would be nice to have some changes for 1.3, as the class and spec were virtually untouched in 1.2.

My healing sage got "touched" in 1.2.

 

Be careful what you wish for

[Lugh]

http://www.darthhater.com/articles/swtor-news/20452-darth-hater-interview-game-update-1-3-with-swtor

 

Scroll down and the speccifacky mention shock and project. So they are listening.

 

PS This won't be the first time that they claim that this is fixed so...don't hold your breath.

[Underpowered]

The same would apply for sages too eh? Force Slow is just so Force efficient.

 

Force Slow is phenomenal for Sages. The Stalker set bonus is also phenomenal for Sages too. All of it. 35m instant slow? Suck it melee.

[Sireene]

Hey everybody!

 

Our recent Community Q&A blog has gone live, and there is some additional information regarding Project that we thought you all might find relevant to this discussion:

 

Ximix: Are there any plans to revisit ability animation issues between mirror classes? For example, several "instant" Sage abilities actually have 1-2 second activations while Sorcerer abilities activate and deal damage instantly. Just like the Commando vs Bounty Hunter animations, in PvP these discrepancies can be huge.

 

Austin Peckenpaugh (Senior Designer): Whenever you use an "instant" ability, the server receives and process that action without any animation dependency (read: instantly), but the impact VFX and flytext are synced to the attack animation on your client. This is done to make the game look good and give attacks a sense of weight and impact without affecting timing or balance.

 

There are some notable exceptions to this that are real delays and real discrepancies that we're aware of and are addressing. In the case of Shock and Project, there is a real delay (on the server) before Project deals its damage, and that's something we're fixing in 1.3. The other real delays that we're aware of are in Smash and Force Sweep, but we don't yet have a fix for those.

 

If you believe additional abilities have delays or are not mirrored, you'd have to point them out specifically. With the exception of the abilities I've already mentioned, so far our investigations have shown that the discrepancies being reported are the intentional ones that make the game look good and feel right and, to reiterate, do not impact timing or balance.

 

Please feel free to read through the rest of the answers here:

 

Community Q&A: May 25th, 2012 – Special Edition: Game Update 1.3

 

Thanks and may the Force be with you!

Edited May 25, 2012 by Sireene

[NeverRose]

It's not a project "fix" it's a direct nerf to our burst.

 

 

Bad news.

[Dyvim]

It's not a project "fix" it's a direct nerf to our burst.

 

 

Bad news.

 

That burst is a broken mechanic that allows people to "cheat" the GCD, and it is of questionable use, anyway. Even at its best, there are marked tradeoffs.

 

It does sound like they have indeed realized the magnitude of the delay, and will work to remove it, hopefully, instead of buggering up shock. Still no word as to what kind of fix we can look forward to, though...will they take into acct community feedback to get away from junk throwing, or just speed up the junk?

Edited May 26, 2012 by Dyvim

[Ximix]

Woot! They answered my question.

[Nazban]

I'm not sure anyone brought it up in this thread, but what about the fact that (for sages) project has a chance to deliver another 'rock throw' (in the sage's balance tree if i'm not mistaken).

The question on my mind is, if they are fixing the animation for that, that animation should be able to immediately run again without looking weird. (does force pushing a guy just after already force pushing him sound nice? )

[Dyvim]

I'm not sure anyone brought it up in this thread, but what about the fact that (for sages) project has a chance to deliver another 'rock throw' (in the sage's balance tree if i'm not mistaken).

The question on my mind is, if they are fixing the animation for that, that animation should be able to immediately run again without looking weird. (does force pushing a guy just after already force pushing him sound nice? )

 

Yes, sages and shadows have the same talent, its called upheaval. It has been brought up multiple times in the suggestion thread. Assuming they get rid of the junk, and dont just speed it up or tick the damage before the junk hits - crappy solutions - and go with a replacement animation, then yes, it will have to double up, exactly like shock does....with a saber throw replacement, it could be a quick boomerang motion back to the target for a double hit. With the force burst ani's again, it would be just like shock with a double pump and a double impact...really no big deal.

Edited May 26, 2012 by Dyvim

[Nazban]

Yes, sages and shadows have the same talent, its called upheaval. It has been brought up multiple times in the suggestion thread. Assuming they get rid of the junk, and dont just speed it up or tick the damage before the junk hits - crappy solutions - and go with a replacement animation, then yes, it will have to double up, exactly like shock does....with a saber throw replacement, it could be a quick boomerang motion back to the target for a double hit. With the force burst ani's again, it would be just like shock with a double pump and a double impact...really no big deal.

Oh I didnt find any post like that! My bad. The only thing I liked about the project animation is the double throwing, but ofcourse the delay is too much, glad they finally acknowledged this

[Knockerz]

I hope it's called kinetic shock lol like imp version only instead of lightning it throws kinetic energy and is that white bright color instead of purple.

[Dyvim]

I hope it's called kinetic shock lol like imp version only instead of lightning it throws kinetic energy and is that white bright color instead of purple.

 

Yep, you are pretty much describing Force Burst, again here is a picture of Force Burst side by side with Shock...

 

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/8731/forceburstvsshock.jpg

[SlickAWG]

Yes, sages and shadows have the same talent, its called upheaval. It has been brought up multiple times in the suggestion thread. Assuming they get rid of the junk, and dont just speed it up or tick the damage before the junk hits - crappy solutions - and go with a replacement animation, then yes, it will have to double up, exactly like shock does....with a saber throw replacement, it could be a quick boomerang motion back to the target for a double hit. With the force burst ani's again, it would be just like shock with a double pump and a double impact...really no big deal.

 

Saber Throw is too much to hope for. I mean, yes, it would be amazing, but I doubt it's going to happen. Same thing with a "Force Burst", which would be only slightly less cool than a lightsaber throw, and still cooler than Project in its current form. I imagine they're going to just speed up the animation, which is kind of disappointing.

 

Sidenote: Does anyone remember the Beta, where Force Wave pushed enemies away the same distance as the Jedi Knight's Force Push? Can we all start commenting on that after Project is changed, so that ability becomes cool and worthwhile again?

[Dyvim]

Saber Throw is too much to hope for. I mean, yes, it would be amazing, but I doubt it's going to happen. Same thing with a "Force Burst", which would be only slightly less cool than a lightsaber throw, and still cooler than Project in its current form. I imagine they're going to just speed up the animation, which is kind of disappointing.

 

Sidenote: Does anyone remember the Beta, where Force Wave pushed enemies away the same distance as the Jedi Knight's Force Push? Can we all start commenting on that after Project is changed, so that ability becomes cool and worthwhile again?

 

Well, hopefully they read the forums and are going to take some of the suggestions to heart, as they claim they do. Junk throwing just doesnt cut it, not for Project and Throw. Enough with the "debris"...its craptastic. And not particularly jedi-like.

 

I believe the reason they nerfed FW was because they nerfed the range for consulars and shadows, so it didnt make sense for FW to knock targets out of the range of their "ranged" attacks.

Edited May 31, 2012 by Dyvim

[Halkyon]

Well, hopefully they read the forums and are going to take some of the suggestions to heart, as they claim they do. Junk throwing just doesnt cut it, not for Project and Throw. Enough with the "debirs"...its craptastic. And not particularly jedi-like.

 

I vehemently disagree with this entire statement and will be very sad if they remove the animation, because it's probably my favorite-looking consular ability. I'm inclined to agree too, since they made the Consular Legacy skill a Super Project.

[dronepilot]

Ximix: Are there any plans to revisit ability animation issues between mirror classes? For example, several "instant" Sage abilities actually have 1-2 second activations while Sorcerer abilities activate and deal damage instantly. Just like the Commando vs Bounty Hunter animations, in PvP these discrepancies can be huge.

 

Austin Peckenpaugh (Senior Designer): Whenever you use an "instant" ability, the server receives and process that action without any animation dependency (read: instantly), but the impact VFX and flytext are synced to the attack animation on your client. This is done to make the game look good and give attacks a sense of weight and impact without affecting timing or balance.

 

There are some notable exceptions to this that are real delays and real discrepancies that we're aware of and are addressing. In the case of Shock and Project, there is a real delay (on the server) before Project deals its damage, and that's something we're fixing in 1.3. The other real delays that we're aware of are in Smash and Force Sweep, but we don't yet have a fix for those.

 

If you believe additional abilities have delays or are not mirrored, you'd have to point them out specifically. With the exception of the abilities I've already mentioned, so far our investigations have shown that the discrepancies being reported are the intentional ones that make the game look good and feel right and, to reiterate, do not impact timing or balance.

 

After reading, this, I take back anything I said earlier about this. Really does seem they are fixing the Project/Shock problem after all for 1.3

[Dyvim]

I vehemently disagree with this entire statement and will be very sad if they remove the animation, because it's probably my favorite-looking consular ability. I'm inclined to agree too, since they made the Consular Legacy skill a Super Project.

 

You like it. That I understand. Purely personal taste and all. But the facts clearly show if someone is going to throw junk at somebody with the force, they should be SITH. First time we see junk thrown...Vader in ESB. Number of sith that throw junk at targets? All of them. Number of times sith throw junk in six movies? 15+...Vader, Maul, Dooku, Palpitane...all of them chunk junk. In fact, sith throw junk MORE than they use lightning, MORE than they choke, MORE than any other ranged attack. Number of times jedi throw things in six movies? once or twice, depending on how you view Anakin's darth vader preview in aotc and yoda throwing back ONE car, one of the 7 or more cars palpitane threw at him. Number of times jedi threw a rock in six movies...ONCE, Luke throws a ROCK WITH HIS HAND...lol. Jedi ranged skills CLEARLY should be based off of a force push/shockwave concept, LIKE, exactly like, Force Burst.

 

So when I say it isnt particularly jedi-like, I am dead on accurate with a butt load of solid facts from the ultimate canon of the movies to back me up. Beyond the movies, you have the official games, where junk throwing has NEVER been classified as a lightside skill, but has been classified as a DARKSIDE skill. No one can reasonably watch the movies and think that junk throwing would be a signature jedi move instead of a signature sith move, if THEY ARE HONEST.

 

Now, in addition to the lore problems and the ACKNOWLEDGED delay problem, the project animation has other problems. It is ignorant of the environment. We all know this one...it pulls up junk that couldnt possibly be where you are at, therefore it is comic relief...like a joke. Rocks out of starships decks, etc. If I want to watch star wars jokes, I'll stick with robot chicken. They do it better. Then as an aside, each client rolls on the random table separately (try this if you are side by side with another player)...when you pull up a droid chassis, on your opponents screen it could well be a rock or that ridiculous tri-legged stone cauldron, etc. It cheats the environment and it cheats the player, since what you think you are hitting with, you are not. It is mega lame. Unspeakably lame.

 

So you may like it, but you do so inspite of the lore, and inspite of its craptastic implementation and mechanics. Some people like the crappy pebblestorm of Throw, too. I have seen people say they like it because they think it embarrasses their enemy to die from pebbles...yeah, wonderful. The hallmark of a great jedi animation...lol...but different...So you have to ask the obvious question, WHY? Because I can't come up with a good reason, outside of some earth shaman fetish or some attachment to some other superhero game or abilities which HAVE NOTHING to do with star wars, but I have seen other players reference.

Edited May 27, 2012 by Dyvim

[eclipce]

Since BioWare is reading this thread I'll go ahead and say that can we please get some cooler animations on project, pebble-throw and kinetic ward (kinetic combat) - kinetic ward is just meh, looks like a silly fantasy game ability.

 

That and give us some mirror class sith side stuff if we are dark.. that would be excellent

 

thank you for listening

[ACLucius]

I like Project honestly. It would be nice if it was more environment friendly, but it at least makes our abilities look different. For Sith, they shoot lightning, then lightning, then some more lightning, and finish you off with a little shock of lightning.

 

If they would just fix Telekinetic Throw to be something better, such as along the lines of

, it would actually be a very cool skill. As it is, I just make my own jokes about it in mumble as a hybrid DPS saying I am spamming my pebbles of doom. Really though, it would be nice if it was more like that animation, or maybe that animation but combined with Disturbance visuals.

[Daiyukie]

"A Jedi uses the Force to defend, never to attack" - Yoda

 

With that preface, all Jedi should only Push enemies over and actually only do damage with their sabers if you want to be true to lore, but for the purposes of the game, Force Burst would be a great Project replacement, not to mention it's instant. TKT is trickier, but I was thinking something like an offensive Mind Trick where you pull up a bunch of glowing spikes/small projectiles to surround the target, then they all pelt the target one after the other lightning-fast, so it creates kind of a cage. Think of the way Vergil's floating light-sword attacks from Devil May Cry are animated. Better than pebbles but it keeps the "flavor" of the ability /shrug

 

Visual:

If the video doesn't jump to the appropriate time, skip to 5:35. Edited June 1, 2012 by Daiyukie

[Xienive]

Project with upheaval is one of the coolest animations in the game imo.

[Metalmac]

When Bio Ware says fixed they mean that it performs according to some off the wall spec of a concept.

 

It does not mean in any way what we would call "fixed"

 

Like Lightning hits instantly for Sorcerer yet our Telekinetic Throw is still slow as hell, and no mention of this.

Nor do they even attempt to address that while using Telekinetic Throw and then Project that targets get out of range, but if you are not using Telekinetic Throw before Project that same range works. Explain that one?