The evolution of SWTOR: Unrealistic expectations or bad company policy ?

[JeramieCrowe]

actually I think the best thing for the doctors would be to buy their company back from ea. honestly.

 

from hating ea to giving them another chance I now hate them even more.

 

in the past they killed so many studios who were among the best gaming had to offer like bullfrog westwood, origin systems, mythic and many more.

 

for a while I thought they learned their lesson, next thing they pee on origin systems dead corpse in giving the name to that horrible distribution platform that only they wanted in the first place. then they mutilated good bioware titles like dragon age2 and next thing they forced origin on every mass effect fan.

with swtor it must be also somehow their fault. the ones responsible should go, however they are most probably still there to do more harm to another company that I grew to love because of the beautiful games they made, but the times of baldrus gate are clearly over now.

 

so please please please with sugar ontop, dear bw doctors rescue your company and buy it back from ea (and then look for a better publisher)

 

Alas, BioWare didn't have the choice to be sold to EA in the first place. I doubt they have the choice to extricate themselves.

[Jedlosson]

When I pre-ordered the game back in the day, I did so with great excitement. Star Wars The Old Republic would be BioWare's most ambitious game yet, a game with thousands of players all doing their quests and advancing through their own personal, epic BioWare-story which was to be fully voiced utilizing a huge cast of god-tier voiceactors. It was a dream come true! And I dare say: BioWare delivered! I think they did an amazing job and many, many, many kudos to them!

 

I completely agree with this.

 

However... expectations were raised that this game would be the BioWare-story that would never end. Content would continuously be rolled out to advance the storyline. Except.... this hasn't happened. We are close to having seen three major content updates, none of which have had new world quests, new class quests or new companion quests. Personally, I'm into this game because of the BioWare-story (I love Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Jade Empire etc) so the prospect of a never-ending BioWare game was very appealing to me.

 

I am disappointed to see there is are no stories/quests/planets too. To be honest, I do not care whether they add a new operation or flashpoint or not, I play this game mainly for the story. I do not say they have to make a new chapter but one new planet would certainly be doable.

 

Moving into the present, my interest in the game is in decline. Without any new stories to immerse myself in, there is very little reason for me to play. I don't have the time or willpower to do hardcore PvE (5 Years of hardcore raiding in WoW is enough) and I don't like to PvP in MMORPGs.

 

Luckily, I have yet to feel the decline in interest. So far, Bioware is safe because of the fact that there are still classes (with their own stories) I have not played yet.

 

So I've been thinking and I've come up with the following question(s): Was my expectation of having new class/world/companion/sidequests with every major content update unrealistic or did BioWare just not deliver what was promised/hyped up ?

 

I guess that only time will tell.

[Holden_Dissent]

Everytime someone says the game is broken

Everytime someone says the game failed (started day 1)

Everytime someone says there's nothing to do at end game

Everytime someone says The game is dying/dead (some servers themselves I understand, but the game?)

 

These rumormongers have nothing to do with company policy. They either have unrealistic expectations or a hidden agenda. And yes, they do effect the moral of the gamers that enjoy playing the game. I quit WoW twice because of the Warlock forums. So I know personally that the forums have an effect on moral.

[Raeln]

Everytime someone says the game is broken

Everytime someone says the game failed (started day 1)

Everytime someone says there's nothing to do at end game

Everytime someone says The game is dying/dead (some servers themselves I understand, but the game?)

 

These rumormongers have nothing to do with company policy. They either have unrealistic expectations or a hidden agenda. And yes, they do effect the moral of the gamers that enjoy playing the game. I quit WoW twice because of the Warlock forums. So I know personally that the forums have an effect on moral.

 

I'm almost of the opinion these days that MMO developers should probably close their forums down to just a customer service forum and do the rest of their communication through a developer blog and fan-sites. It's obvious to me that competition-planted viral marketing is growing in frequency at an astronomical rate.

Edited May 23, 2012 by Raeln

[theskurGe]

Everytime someone says the game is broken

Everytime someone says the game failed (started day 1)

Everytime someone says there's nothing to do at end game

Everytime someone says The game is dying/dead (some servers themselves I understand, but the game?)

 

These rumormongers have nothing to do with company policy. They either have unrealistic expectations or a hidden agenda. And yes, they do effect the moral of the gamers that enjoy playing the game. I quit WoW twice because of the Warlock forums. So I know personally that the forums have an effect on moral.

 

The empty servers have more effect on morale than the people discussing how disappointed they are with a game they payed and continue to pay good money to play.

 

I'm almost of the opinion these days that MMO developers should probably close their forums down to just a customer service forum and do the rest of their communication through a developer blog and fan-sites. It's obvious to me that competition-planted viral marketing is growing in frequency at an astronomical rate.

True, there is probably some of that going on, but EA is a huge part of the problem too. They pay people to give positive reviews of their products on product pages that allow user reviews. They employ PR people to post positively in social media and game forums. They outright buy positive reviews for their games.

They have their PR guys give negative reviews of competing products, and stir up trouble.

So if someone uses their own dirty tricks against them, then it's karma.

 

 

That being said, most of the issues people have with this game are valid.

If you are a consumer, you have a right to voice your opinion.

Edited May 23, 2012 by theskurGe

[Holden_Dissent]

I'm almost of the opinion these days that MMO developers should probably close their forums down to just a customer service forum and do the rest of their communication through a developer blog and fan-sites. It's obvious to me that competition-planted viral marketing is growing in frequency at an astronomical rate.

 

CS Technical forum, a suggestion forum, and individual server forums.

 

That should be IT! haha

[Kyneris]

or a hidden agenda.

 

*grabs a tinfoil hat.*

[Gruug]

I look at it from the other end of the spectrum

 

Some might say EQ had the challange of breaking open the market Until then the MMORPG market was largely unproven... Heck I still had dial up when I started playing everquest, and the concept of paying every month to play a game seemed odd and awkward when most games you just dropped 50 bucks and get to play it.

 

SWTOR has the advantage of coming into a market that is proven to draw customers who are willing to pay monthly subscriptions.

 

Advantage or curse....it works both ways today. Expectations are sometimes more the what is possible and what is provided is almost always going to be a lot less then what is expected. In fact, I think that because most people over expect what they will get out of an MMO anymore, they are more prone to be disappointed. I knew when I saw all the "speculation" as to what SWTOR was going to be "in their opinion" that there were going to be a lot of people falling into that disappointment category.

[discosoc]

Both. Bioware made TOR out to be some great leap in MMO design, but it turned out to actually lack most features of an MMO. The voice over part was pretty neat, but everything else feels like a step backwards.

 

And we believed them.

[Drakkip]

Where did you possibly ascertain from my post that I was anti-cross server LFG?

 

Re-reading it from this morning... I don't know where I got that idea either... lack of caffine and reading 3 threads at once is probable.

 

Re-reading it my point I was attempting to get across was that the issues they face right now in SWTOR the games you cited didn't have. You didn't need a LFG in EQ at launch because there were thousands upon thousands of people on your server, and grouping wasn't as much of a problem as when there are 15-20 people of your level range online on the entire server.

 

Yes, you are asking for every feature at launch. There is no reason for a MMORPG that is not built on a megaserver type system to contain a LFG group-finder at launch. The server populations will not support it and it will only cause havoc when the first max level players try to use it. Group-finders require a mature playerbase to utilize on independent server style game worlds.

 

This paragraph however is still not clear to me exactly what you are articulating. Do you mean that a game like SWTOR should or should not have an LFG system at launch? That it can't work because the players don't know how to use it... just not sure exactly what you are getting at.

[Raeln]

Re-reading it from this morning... I don't know where I got that idea either... lack of caffine and reading 3 threads at once is probable.

 

Re-reading it my point I was attempting to get across was that the issues they face right now in SWTOR the games you cited didn't have. You didn't need a LFG in EQ at launch because there were thousands upon thousands of people on your server, and grouping wasn't as much of a problem as when there are 15-20 people of your level range online on the entire server.

 

I'm not sure when you actually played EQ1. I started playing around late-Velious and exited about mid-way through Gates of Discord. Leveling up was frustrating - some nights I might get lucky and get in an exp group that would stick together for hours, other nights I might be in 15 groups that couldn't stick together for 10 mins at a time. Sometimes the best exp areas were taken, leaving the group I was in with a terrible or dangerous spot.

 

My point is, the game was fun at the time because there was relatively nothing to compare it to. With the evolution of MMORPGs, I won't even play EQ1 and it's F2P. I downloaded it a couple months ago just to check up on my character and it sat on my hard drive since - I've never even launched it.

 

Yes, EQ1 could have benefit greatly from a LFG system - for me, most nights ended up going from zone to zone yelling to join a group. This went on until I began progression raiding, then I had an active guild to use and attunements to locked zones (another wonderful idea).

 

This paragraph however is still not clear to me exactly what you are articulating. Do you mean that a game like SWTOR should or should not have an LFG system at launch? That it can't work because the players don't know how to use it... just not sure exactly what you are getting at.

 

A game that launches with an independent server system, where there are distinct servers and a player's characters are located only on that specific server cannot support a LFG system at launch. Contrary to popular opinion, the bulk of the playerbase levels very slowly. A LFG group-forming system will not work on this type of server setup until the game has aged for a few months so there is a healthy population of max level players.

 

A game that is built on megaserver technology, where everyone is visible to everyone and they are simply cordoned off in virtual instances can support a LFG system at launch because statistically speaking, there should be enough population at any level range region-wise to form groups without having devastatingly long queue times.

Edited May 24, 2012 by Raeln

[nartiuslightlord]

Many who come to to play TOR come from other MMOs. they assume for the most part this has all the years worth of content that Wow has.

 

Most who are quitting the game base the reason on what they expect end game to be like. these people only care about ranks in PVP and what loot the boss dropped. instead they find out this game is NOT like Wow in the sense everyone has the same goals.

 

Many people I know could really give a spit about PVP or raiding opts. We want the journey to be the focus not a carrot people race to 50 to attain so they can feel good sitting arounf fleet showing us how awesome they are for getting there before we do.

 

It's my hope the majority of adults who play don't get a back seat to Wow crowd who demand daily they get features to help them get to the end faster and circuvent having to walk 10 meters or ride there.

 

I expect a great game with a deep story driven quest system, and I don't expect BW to hand me everything on a plate. I want complex and a learning curve.

 

If i wanted a simple game that hands me the best the final content has I would sub to Wow and be given all the epics i wanted so I could fly around the AH with 400 other people who look like my twin.

[theskurGe]

Many who come to to play TOR come from other MMOs. they assume for the most part this has all the years worth of content that Wow has.

 

Most who are quitting the game base the reason on what they expect end game to be like. these people only care about ranks in PVP and what loot the boss dropped. instead they find out this game is NOT like Wow in the sense everyone has the same goals.

 

Many people I know could really give a spit about PVP or raiding opts. We want the journey to be the focus not a carrot people race to 50 to attain so they can feel good sitting arounf fleet showing us how awesome they are for getting there before we do.

 

It's my hope the majority of adults who play don't get a back seat to Wow crowd who demand daily they get features to help them get to the end faster and circuvent having to walk 10 meters or ride there.

 

I expect a great game with a deep story driven quest system, and I don't expect BW to hand me everything on a plate. I want complex and a learning curve.

 

If i wanted a simple game that hands me the best the final content has I would sub to Wow and be given all the epics i wanted so I could fly around the AH with 400 other people who look like my twin.

 

Most people expected an MMO, not empty, desolate wastelands where you are lucky to see another player if you are not in your Factions Fleet.

[Adderdin]

Apples vs oranges?

 

 

No, Doom is a FPS and HF2 is a FPS, if you use the weight system invented by SWTOR Biodrone Fanbois

 

Half Life 2 shouldnt have jumping, vehicles, mouse aiming, dialogues, characters with voices and so on, because Doom did not have those at the launch.

 

Thats how they compare bad SWTOR start to Warcraft all those years ago.

Edited May 24, 2012 by Adderdin

[CygnusMX]

People are still debateing the undebatable I see.

Your hoseing mud uphill trying to convince people who like the game to not like it.

Your hoseing mud uphill trying to convince people who dont like the game to like it.

[mattgyver]

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5017972#5017972

 

This interview is making me suspect that more on the rails is the best they can do. This is fail.

[JeramieCrowe]

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5017972#5017972

 

This interview is making me suspect that more on the rails is the best they can do. This is fail.

 

Are you talking about:

 

MMORPG: We haven’t seen much in regards to Space Combat since launch. What can you share with us about your plans for space in 2012?

Daniel Erickson: In the short term: New end game space missions and they’re hard. A bit further out: some entirely new ideas of what it means to have a space game.

 

How do you get "rails is the best they can do"?

Edited May 25, 2012 by JeramieCrowe

[mattgyver]

Are you talking about:

 

 

 

How do you get "rails is the best they can do"?

 

I'm depressed bro.

[BradTheImpaler]

Many who come to to play TOR come from other MMOs. they assume for the most part this has all the years worth of content that Wow has.

 

Most who are quitting the game base the reason on what they expect end game to be like. these people only care about ranks in PVP and what loot the boss dropped. instead they find out this game is NOT like Wow in the sense everyone has the same goals.

 

Many people I know could really give a spit about PVP or raiding opts. We want the journey to be the focus not a carrot people race to 50 to attain so they can feel good sitting arounf fleet showing us how awesome they are for getting there before we do.

 

It's my hope the majority of adults who play don't get a back seat to Wow crowd who demand daily they get features to help them get to the end faster and circuvent having to walk 10 meters or ride there.

 

I expect a great game with a deep story driven quest system, and I don't expect BW to hand me everything on a plate. I want complex and a learning curve.

 

If i wanted a simple game that hands me the best the final content has I would sub to Wow and be given all the epics i wanted so I could fly around the AH with 400 other people who look like my twin.

 

nartiuslightlord, you're a wonderful human being.

[BradTheImpaler]

People are still debateing the undebatable I see.

Your hoseing mud uphill trying to convince people who like the game to not like it.

Your hoseing mud uphill trying to convince people who dont like the game to like it.

 

No, just trying to encourage people to have realistic expectations and some patience.

[Drakkip]

I'm not sure when you actually played EQ1. I started playing around late-Velious and exited about mid-way through Gates of Discord. Leveling up was frustrating - some nights I might get lucky and get in an exp group that would stick together for hours, other nights I might be in 15 groups that couldn't stick together for 10 mins at a time. Sometimes the best exp areas were taken, leaving the group I was in with a terrible or dangerous spot.

 

My point is, the game was fun at the time because there was relatively nothing to compare it to. With the evolution of MMORPGs, I won't even play EQ1 and it's F2P. I downloaded it a couple months ago just to check up on my character and it sat on my hard drive since - I've never even launched it.

 

Yes, EQ1 could have benefit greatly from a LFG system - for me, most nights ended up going from zone to zone yelling to join a group. This went on until I began progression raiding, then I had an active guild to use and attunements to locked zones (another wonderful idea).

 

 

 

A game that launches with an independent server system, where there are distinct servers and a player's characters are located only on that specific server cannot support a LFG system at launch. Contrary to popular opinion, the bulk of the playerbase levels very slowly. A LFG group-forming system will not work on this type of server setup until the game has aged for a few months so there is a healthy population of max level players.

 

A game that is built on megaserver technology, where everyone is visible to everyone and they are simply cordoned off in virtual instances can support a LFG system at launch because statistically speaking, there should be enough population at any level range region-wise to form groups without having devastatingly long queue times.

 

I started playing shortly after release, through Kunark, and all the subsequent expansions up to and including PoP. Right up to raiding Po-Time in PoP. I played an enchanter, and developed a good group of friends that I leveled with, so it was less of an issue. I guess what I was getting at is that games like that didn't have need it as the server pops were higher, however, no other games that I am aware of had that sort of tool, so the gaming population at large wouldn't be expecting to have something that hadn't really been invented yet =)

 

I see you point now on the server differences. I think you're point has merit however, I disagree in that players attempting to do low level dungeons/FP's still benefit from an LFD tool. Certainly in WoW on alts I used it all the time, and had it been available at launch I would have used it for SWTOR. I guess it depends on how you look at the tool, if it is more for the max level players or a tool for all ages

Edited May 25, 2012 by Drakkip

[JeramieCrowe]

I'm depressed bro.

 

Sorry to hear.

[TheNegotiator]

The game was over-hyped but well-done regardless. If you played an agent you would know what a really good story-based game is all about.

 

I remember reading the forums several years ago. The hype was just flowing, it seemed everywhere I looked there was some fan boy asking people to join his dark side whatever guild.

 

All the overdone cinematic trailers only fueled the hype, sending the armies of fan boys off frothing at the mouth about how the game was going to be "epic".

 

As the majority of players finished their single player content and were forced to move to flash points and ops, the cracks in the foundation started to show. 1.2 caused some to quit, lower pops cause others to quit...there is a domino effect.

 

As to myself, I had no plans of playing the game once I learned the combat mechanics were wow clone (was quite sick of the holy trinity games), but a friend bought the game and encouraged me to buy it also. He quit once his class story finished and I'm still playing, I generally like most things about the game.

 

So I think the game was just over-hyped, not that complicated really.

[Lu_Bei]

There's just so much walking/biking/fighting between stories. If you've already biked, walked, and fought through this planet and seen all its quests, what is your motivation for rerolling a new character? For the ~20 minutes of class content per world?

[JeramieCrowe]

There's just so much walking/biking/fighting between stories. If you've already biked, walked, and fought through this planet and seen all its quests, what is your motivation for rerolling a new character? For the ~20 minutes of class content per world?

 

Since you ask, my motive is to play all of it again.

 

Then again, I've played KotOR 12 times, KotOR2 8 times, Mass Effect 5 times and ME2 4 times. Replaying ME and ME2 for ME3, so it'll make it 6 and 5 times, respectively.

 

I enjoy a good story, what can I say. I have books on my shelf that I've read upwards of 20 times, such as "The Walking Drum". And I have movies on blu-ray that I own that I've seen.... couldn't even begin to tell you. The Bourne Trilogy, Avatar, Star Wars I-VI, Batman Begins and The Dark Knight, etc.

 

Replaying in TOR is no different than that for me.