No Gear Check in the LFG tool?

[Blackardin]

Even if you run the first dungeon, people will measure you and exclude you from groups. Go play wow in its current state, if you dont wear BoA gear you are removed from most groups and we are talking about gear that is not necessary + highly nerfed lvl up dungeons.

 

A gear check does only work, if the kickvote is disabled. If kickvote and gearchecks are done, new players will run into walls, just like they do at wow these days.

 

There has to be a gating mechanism no different then that for planets, hard modes.

 

There should be no visible gear check or measuring device that the pseudo elitist can use as a tool for anti-social behavior..

 

Unlike wow, the LFG tool will be server only. Those that seek elitist stature can be contained and ignored by the community at large. This is where accountability comes into play. Water will seek its own level.

 

I honestly see a whole lot of worrying over nothing here.

[EcrirTwyLar]

I guess some people are to lazy to check the players gear after the invite?

 

What does this have to do with the LFG tool? The LFG tool places 4 players into a group. It should pick people who are able to complete the content.

 

Of course if you invite someone to your group, you should look them over and determine if they have a chance to survive the content. But that has little to do with this thread.

[AshlaBoga]

TL;DR

 

I did not read the entire thread as it was giving me a headache on the first page.

 

I have played this game since beta. I only have one character at 50.. This is the exact reason I don't go and do dalies and FP's or Ops.. This snobbish attitude about gear. I have never pvp'ed and just stuck to the normal content.

 

I want to do Ops and FPs but I am made to feel like an idiot because I do not know MMO's inside and out and am ignorant to what gear is needed for what, this is content I have barely touched... When I started playing I did not know what DPS, TANK etc even mean't.. I guess I will never get to do the op's because I don't know what to do, what I need or how to get it... I will be stuck on normal content forever..Because when I do ask I am made to feel like an idiot... and trust me.. that is not a good feeling..

 

So get down off your high horse and instead of demanding a gear check in LFG tool, help the ones who don't have the gear and EDUCATE them to what they do need. There are a lot of capable players out there like myself who what to do this content but don't know where the hell to start and it just takes a couple of helpful people from the community to get a leg up and help.

 

Thing is MOST of us are reluctant to kick people who aren't either adequately skilled or geared. I remember my first time in an Op as a pug. I was clearly not geared well enough - purple 49 and some blue 50 - but they wouldn't kick me because I was new to mmos and they didn't want to hurt my feelings. I wish they had, they would have actually finished Story KP that night.

Edited June 7, 2012 by AshlaBoga

[SentinelThain]

elitism: something I don't like or don't understand.

100% agree.Cant be bothered with people that want to exclude and look down on others because of gear.How are they meant to get it if they cant get into groups in the first place.Hate stupid little leet gamer attitudes.Get a life.

[EcrirTwyLar]

TL;DR

 

I did not read the entire thread as it was giving me a headache on the first page.

 

I have played this game since beta. I only have one character at 50.. This is the exact reason I don't go and do dalies and FP's or Ops.. This snobbish attitude about gear. I have never pvp'ed and just stuck to the normal content.

 

I want to do Ops and FPs but I am made to feel like an idiot because I do not know MMO's inside and out and am ignorant to what gear is needed for what, this is content I have barely touched... When I started playing I did not know what DPS, TANK etc even mean't.. I guess I will never get to do the op's because I don't know what to do, what I need or how to get it... I will be stuck on normal content forever..Because when I do ask I am made to feel like an idiot... and trust me.. that is not a good feeling..

 

So get down off your high horse and instead of demanding a gear check in LFG tool, help the ones who don't have the gear and EDUCATE them to what they do need. There are a lot of capable players out there like myself who what to do this content but don't know where the hell to start and it just takes a couple of helpful people from the community to get a leg up and help.

 

And you fail at the forums because you won't read the thread. A gear check in LFG tool has nothing to do with elitism. It's about making sure that everyone who queues for a flashpoint is able to complete the content.

[Seraphynn]

Quote: Originally Posted by cyvaris

So it will be the same issue PvP already deals with then? Idiots not bothering to acquire their gear....sigh.

 

Please do not assume that these people are idiots.. that is such a blanket statement. A lot like myself, this is there first MMO, they don't know the first thing about gear and where to acquire it. Educate them, a friendly whisper and point in the right direction is usually all it takes.

 

We all want this to be a community, well make it one.. Help people that don't know the first things about MMO's. You want people correctly geared for Ops and if someone in your group is not correctly geared instead of just kicking and making them feel like crap, say to them "Okay you don't have the right gear for this op, you need to goto this place and collect this gear Do these dalies and so forth....This website will give you more info..." There is that so hard?

 

If we all commit to doing things like this instead of making people like me scared to even ask without the fear of being attacked a gear check tool would not even be needed in the LFG. Then maybe we can start building a community.

Edited June 7, 2012 by Seraphynn

[EcrirTwyLar]

Please do not assume that these people are idiots.. that is such a blanket statement. A lot like myself, this is there first MMO, they don't know the first thing about gear and where to acquire it. Educate them, a friendly whisper and point in the right direction is usually all it takes.

 

We all want this to be a community, well make it one.. Help people that don't know the first things about MMO's. You want people correctly geared for Ops and if someone in your group is not correctly geared instead of just kicking and making them feel like crap, say to them "Okay you don't have the right gear for this op, you need to goto this place and collect this gear Do these dalies and so forth....This website will give you more info..." There is that so hard?

 

If we all commit to doing things like this instead of making people like me scared to even ask without the fear of being attacked a gear check tool would not even be needed in the LFG. Then maybe we can start building a community.

 

Except that if the LFG tool HAS a gear check, it will HELP people queue for the appropriate content they NEED to acquire the next tier of gear. Make sense?

[Seraphynn]

And you fail at the forums because you won't read the thread. A gear check in LFG tool has nothing to do with elitism. It's about making sure that everyone who queues for a flashpoint is able to complete the content.

 

Then you fail at the whole meaning of what I posted. I see exactly what was being asked and I don't need to read through 12 pages of attacks and arguments for and against. The OP asked and I answered to why I feel its not needed. Instead of getting angry at people for not having the right gear, group up and inform them... Don't just kick them, otherwise people will never LEARN what is needed to run these ops. I pay the same money and the same content should be open to me as it is too you. I don't need someone just kicking me for the wrong gear. I would rather be informed to what I need.

[dardack]

100% agree.Cant be bothered with people that want to exclude and look down on others because of gear.How are they meant to get it if they cant get into groups in the first place.Hate stupid little leet gamer attitudes.Get a life.

 

It's not about looking down and being elitist (I know that does exist like In WOW it did people looking for ilvl's that totally outgeared the instance for a quick run) it's about being able to complete the instance in a timely fashion or at all. Go get all orange/green/blue gear for a fresh 50, tank/healers/dps and try HM LI. Let me know how that goes. Can't even do that place in all tionese. And try Story Mode EC in tionese, let me know how that goes.

 

I dont' want to see content nerfed because people are q'ing into instances they have no business being in with their gear. Do the progression. Dailies/normal 4 mans, HM 4mans (except LI)/STory mode EV/KP, SM EC/HM LI

 

They can get into groups for the content DESIGNED for their current gear level. The dev's have put in gear check instances/fights. It's a matter of you can't beat the fight without certain gear. Deal with it. It's not elitist to expect every one in the group to have put in the work to get the gear required by the fight.

 

If there is no gear check for Normal Mode 4 mans, fine, slight for SM EV/KP fine, Columni+ for HM LI/SM EC. That's not elitist and if you think it is, you're just plain wrong and don't understand the mechanics of the game.

[EcrirTwyLar]

Then you fail at the whole meaning of what I posted. I see exactly what was being asked and I don't need to read through 12 pages of attacks and arguments for and against. The OP asked and I answered to why I feel its not needed. Instead of getting angry at people for not having the right gear, group up and inform them... Don't just kick them, otherwise people will never LEARN what is needed to run these ops. I pay the same money and the same content should be open to me as it is too you. I don't need someone just kicking me for the wrong gear. I would rather be informed to what I need.

 

I don't think you understand the whole LFG tool idea. Honestly. A gear check in the LFG tool would not cause someone to be kicked from a group. It just wouldn't allow them to select a flashpoint that they didn't meet the criteria for.

[Kemosobe]

**EDIT: Now that 1.3 is on PTS, looking for conformation one way or the other on this**

The pictures Bioware released of the LFG tool didn't seem to include a gear check of any kind. What is preventing a level 50 in all green gear from queuing up for Devona or HM Lost Island?

 

The last thing we need is spending an hour in a queue for a group only to get stuck in a group that doesn't even have the gear required to complete it and having to start over.

 

A gear check is very important or you will have many frustrated and annoyed players.

 

Clarification: I want a built in feature incorporated into the LFG tool that restricts what you can queue for based on level and gear rating. I do NOT want the restrictions players generated (like they CURRENTLY are in the game). Since the devs have created a gear gated game (enrage timers, tiered content, etc...) then it is obvious to me that they need a way to enforce such gating, which the preview of the LFG tool failed to show.

 

Clarification 2: THIS THREAD HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH GEAR SCORE. IF YOU THINK IT DOES PLEASE READ MORE CAREFULLY. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE ABSOLUTE MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS NEEDED TO CLEAR AN INSTANCE, DETERMINED BY DEVELOERS, NOT PLAYERS.

 

This has been a problem in WoW since they implemented a LFG tool. Why do you think there were lots of us that didn't want it? You guys are the ones that wanted this in the game, now you guys are the ones that are going to have to deal with the consequences.

[dardack]

Please do not assume that these people are idiots.. that is such a blanket statement. A lot like myself, this is there first MMO, they don't know the first thing about gear and where to acquire it. Educate them, a friendly whisper and point in the right direction is usually all it takes.

 

I pvp a ton, I tell people fresh 50's all the time to go buy Recruit gear, I even give them 100k to get started, it's cheap. But if in the next 2 WZ's they haven't even purchased the 3-5 items that 100k I gave them would purchase, I vote to kick in the 3rd. If you can't take the time and free credits to go get PVP gear why should I carry you.

 

We all want this to be a community, well make it one.. Help people that don't know the first things about MMO's. You want people correctly geared for Ops and if someone in your group is not correctly geared instead of just kicking and making them feel like crap, say to them "Okay you don't have the right gear for this op, you need to goto this place and collect this gear Do these dalies and so forth....This website will give you more info..." There is that so hard?

 

I help people all the time, but you can't fix laziness. You can tell people this, show them the way, provide credits, and sure some will go do it, too often many will be like, just carry me for the gear. Um that's what your guild is for, not some random group.

 

If we all commit to doing things like this instead of making people like me scared to even ask without the fear of being attacked a gear check tool would not even be needed in the LFG. Then maybe we can start building a community.

 

A gear check tool is ABSOLUTELY needed in the client. I'm not saying something the players can see, but something the tool see's that you can't even Q for HM LI unless you meat a gear check. Because the fights inside are impossible without certain level of gear on everyone. I'm not trying to create an elitist community split, but just trying to get the tool to do it's job.

 

Let's say it doesn't do this and you zone into HM LI in all greens. Will there be a vote to kick? If not I have to leave and potentially wait again to get into a group with the correct gear. And how many people if they zone in in greens, even after informing them they dont' have the gear (if no vote to kick) will voluntarily leave? (And we all know a vote to kick will cause even more drama in this community).

 

BTW if you have any questions, pm me, I'll get all the information to you that you would want to ask about. You could also try finding a guild that could help you. I know when I first started MMO'ing 8 years ago my guild was very helpful. And I've tried to carry that on, but again I'm patient to a point, I'm not going to give you a pass indefinetly on not knowing after I've informed you. Same with my first guild. Again you can't fix laziness.

[Seraphynn]

I don't think you understand the whole LFG tool idea. Honestly. A gear check in the LFG tool would not cause someone to be kicked from a group. It just wouldn't allow them to select a flashpoint that they didn't meet the criteria for.

 

Maybe not *shrugs* I would rather join the group and be told that I don't have the right gear and then maybe what I do need and where to get it.. but with the whole gist of this forum post I am bowing out because what I am trying to say is falling on deaf ears. LFG tool aside. I would rather have a helpful community that gives a hand up rather than a smack down. But that is not going to happen anytime soon.

 

Best Wishes

[Tahana]

This has been a problem in WoW since they implemented a LFG tool. Why do you think there were lots of us that didn't want it? You guys are the ones that wanted this in the game, now you guys are the ones that are going to have to deal with the consequences.

 

I agree with you.. I have never been a proponent of this tool, I was against it in Rift and was here until the Dev's decided to include it in the game. Well since they have decided to include it, I want them to AT LEAST do it correctly.

 

People will say well then just don't use it.. Well once this is introduced most people will use this to create their pugs.. Those that don't will either rely strictly on their guild or won't pug anymore. For me it isn't a choice, if I want my alts to get the gear I will need to pug. Well I'm not going to sit there for hours and hours with someone who doesn't have a clue. Guilds are for that very reason, to help people figure out out to play the game.. While I don't have a problem teaching/explaining mechanics I do expect people to be geared enough to complete the content they want to run.. I'm not running the content for the wipes.

[Jackalcrimson]

I'm not understanding the reason for getting so upset with this. I do understand that a certain level of gear is needed to complete end game content. But it was stated that this LFG tool was for heroics and non hard mode flashpoints, and excludes operations. Since hardmodes and operations take a certain amount of coordination and in some cases like with operations need a team speak server to effectively run. So did they change the LFG tool to now include hard modes and operations because if not then this whole thing is pointless.

[Vankris]

one thing to keep in mind

minimum gear requirement means people are using their clas to their full potential. Which is never the case.

 

The reason some player have unreasonable requirement noawadays, it's because they have seen so often player in full rakata doing less dps than other in tionese, that if they don't know you, they will assume you are bad, or at very least an average player.

 

Believe me or not, i have been invited to HM lost island run infull tionese, because people know me and knew i would get the best of the gear i have. (and we did clean).

 

I think gear check are necessary to protect both the group that wish not to carry undergear player and the undergear player himself from griefing, it's a protection measure.

 

I still think there should maintain a vote to kick for some case (disconnected, long afk, cheated gear check like a guardian in trooper rakata gear for example)

[EcrirTwyLar]

Maybe not *shrugs* I would rather join the group and be told that I don't have the right gear and then maybe what I do need and where to get it.. but with the whole gist of this forum post I am bowing out because what I am trying to say is falling on deaf ears. LFG tool aside. I would rather have a helpful community that gives a hand up rather than a smack down. But that is not going to happen anytime soon.

 

Best Wishes

 

I often help people out. I even sometimes go to the starter planets to help people. But this thread has nothing to do with being helpful or not being helpful. It's about a tool that is supposed to HELP us find other people to do a flashpoint with. What would be the point if it put a bunch of people together who were incapable of completing the content.

 

Btw, I just went on the test server and took all of my equipment off and the tool let me queue for "Hard Mode (Tier 2)" flashpoints. So either the tool knew that I had the appropriate gear in my inventory (which I doubt) or the tool does NOT have a gear check. Which sucks and Bioware is once again going to catch a whole bunch of flack over this.

[Kemosobe]

I agree with you.. I have never been a proponent of this tool, I was against it in Rift and was here until the Dev's decided to include it in the game. Well since they have decided to include it, I want them to AT LEAST do it correctly.

 

People will say well then just don't use it.. Well once this is introduced most people will use this to create their pugs.. Those that don't will either rely strictly on their guild or won't pug anymore. For me it isn't a choice, if I want my alts to get the gear I will need to pug. Well I'm not going to sit there for hours and hours with someone who doesn't have a clue. Guilds are for that very reason, to help people figure out out to play the game.. While I don't have a problem teaching/explaining mechanics I do expect people to be geared enough to complete the content they want to run.. I'm not running the content for the wipes.

 

I have been against a LFG tool since people were asking for them in the early access time. I would always come on here and defend the shat out of Bioware for not implementing it. The second I saw the 1.3 patch video, I was done. I unsubbed and started coming on here thanking the people who really wanted the LFG tool for turning this game into yet another fail game (WoW version 10.4). This game needed server merges after all the WoW players left, but that was really it. The LFG tool that was already in the game was enough. Needed some refinement, but if people actually used it, it was enough because YOU had to actually form the group and get the people needed for it. Now all everyone will be doing is easy clicking to get their group and not talk and wiping and failing. Happened in WoW, happened in RIFT, will happen here.

[Acherom]

I'm not understanding the reason for getting so upset with this. I do understand that a certain level of gear is needed to complete end game content. But it was stated that this LFG tool was for heroics and non hard mode flashpoints, and excludes operations. Since hardmodes and operations take a certain amount of coordination and in some cases like with operations need a team speak server to effectively run. So did they change the LFG tool to now include hard modes and operations because if not then this whole thing is pointless.

 

Where there are guidelines; there will be people cheesing them.

 

Look at the random group thing this way: Its like jumping into a shark tank, head first; without safety gear.

 

Sometimes: the rest of the group jumps in with you, and random antics ensue.

 

Sometimes; one guy stands on the side and pours chum into the tank and the whole thing turns into a mess.

 

Sometimes; one guy blows his whistle and says, "*** do you think you're doing!?" and breaks out the safety gear. Maybe he even teaches you how to use it!

 

In the last instance; my friends list grows by one, and the random-lfg becomes less necessary.

[Kourage]

I disagree. If the tool finds you players that do not meet YOUR standards, then YOU should drop group and requeue, not remove player after player til you get your ideal group. If you want an ideal group, FORM one, don't use the LFD to PUG.

I'm sorry, but what we need is a tool to help find people who are looking for a group, for the same content we are looking to do. This tool will help us do that. Right now, 9 out of 10 people looking for a group won't even set their LFG Comment so we can find them. If this tool doesn't show us who is looking for what and we have to just queue up and kick people who aren't qualified, then we will do so.

[EcrirTwyLar]

I'm not understanding the reason for getting so upset with this. I do understand that a certain level of gear is needed to complete end game content. But it was stated that this LFG tool was for heroics and non hard mode flashpoints, and excludes operations. Since hardmodes and operations take a certain amount of coordination and in some cases like with operations need a team speak server to effectively run. So did they change the LFG tool to now include hard modes and operations because if not then this whole thing is pointless.

 

I'm not in game to look again, but I was able to queue specifically for "Hard Mode (tier 2)" flashpoints. I was able to do this while naked.

[Skidrowbro]

One issue is the min/max'ers. These are the players who will usually grief another player. It doesn't matter if player A has the best gear in the game, player B(who is a min/max'er) will find a way to scrutinize player A's play style. This falls down on the developers who allow people to min/max with no counter measures. If a player chooses to maximize their DPS they should be sacrificing something for it. Perhaps in HP's and defense or crit% and accuracy. Something like that.

[Skidrowbro]

I'm not in game to look again, but I was able to queue specifically for "Hard Mode (tier 2)" flashpoints. I was able to do this while naked.

 

They probably didn't fix it so that it won't include gear in your bag:rolleyes:

[EcrirTwyLar]

They probably didn't fix it so that it won't include gear in your bag:rolleyes:

 

I was wondering that... But I don't think so. It would actually probably increase the coding to include a search in your bag. That would open up even more issues to watch for.

[rhirne]

I understand what people are saying about the "gear check" in the LFG tool. Suppose BW does implement this feature into the LFG tool, how would it work? Personally, I do not always LFG in the gear I will do the encounter with.

 

For instance, the containment gear gotten from the Rhakghoul event. I wore that around just for the RP aspect of wearing it during the virus outbreak. No mods or anything in it, purely for looks (and to sound cool in cutscenes). So I use the LFG tool with "gear check," it looks at my gear and says "nope - not the right gear" and so then I can't join because it determines my gear doesn't meet the "minimum requirements" when in fact I actually have other gear to wear which is above and beyond the "minimum" requirement.

 

So then you say, the tool should look in your inventory. What about my ship? look there too? What about my companions? look there too? I mean, I can share gear with my companions. How would BW determine what the correct check is?

 

Now you say "You HAVE to LFG with the gear you are going to use!" Well now that takes away the RP portion of the game. You are now forcing me to do something when that should not be the case. if I want to sit in a cantina and shoot the breeze with Han Solo in my underwear or dance on tables in my swim-wear, I should be able too. When the group is ready, I can gear up and head out.

 

Also, now you are saying you MUST meet these standards or else you can't do this. Let's say I missed the "gear check" by 1 point, does that mean I shouldn't be able to do the content? How many of us have done quests / missions underleveled? My guess is all of us. Is it more difficult? Of course, but that doesn't mean it's not possible to do it.

 

I understand there are some instances where damage / healing / tanking can play a key role in winning vs losing. And with enrage timers, some bosses you have to take down fast. I get that. But how do you come up with some arbitrary check and leave out talent? I may not be able to put out the same damage as PlayerX, but I can dodge better than anyone and take no damage. And because of the skill tree and points I put in, I have a higher crit rate. I crit 90% of the time, PlayerX crits 60%. I may only put out 150 base dps vs PlayerX 220, but I crit for 500 and they only crit for 400, and I crit more often.

 

You can't just take out the human element from the situation. Each situation is going to be unique and each person has different strengths and weaknesses. So what I meet the "minimum" requirement, If I'm a tank, does it matter that I have no idea how to tank properly? That I don't use my skills effectively? just that I meet the "minimum requirement" is all that matters?