Will You Trust Bioware Again?

[gniok]

Me neither. I paid for an entirely different game than this one.

[JoanneK]

I'll be hesitant in future purchases but 1 rotten apple is just that - 1 rotten apple and everyone has their own view ofc. It would be easy to say "hey! BW can go swivel" but the next game they do may be an absolute winner so never-say-never in my book.

[Goretzu]

I think its pretty obvious at this point that they game got pushed out to early due to pressure to meet the holiday deadline, and with another 3-6 months of tuning the end game and having the game essentially launch in its 1.2 state it would of been fine. Problem is now its lost its momentum, hit a brick wall, and it feels like its sliding down slowly leaving a trail of slime behind.

 

This is pretty much what happened to Warhammer Online, if that had goen live as 1.3.X it would have been a different game and likely a totally different outcome.

 

The ultimate killer for me has been the leveling experience after the first class you level. I'm an altoholic, I have 8 85's and another 5+ 80's I have leveled in WoW, and I'm still leveling another. The difference is that at least the first 60 levels can be played in various different zones, heck even in Outlands you can now. However, with SWTOR its pretty much the same thing on every new character, I couldn't even manage to get a second to 50 which is unheard of for me. Game just ended up being way to linear and felt way to boxed in.

 

This is a HUGE problem for SWTOR, which is why I've been suggesting since December (when I first saw this with my alts) that they need alternative levelling zones - they can do them without voice acting, just the text quest like you get from the quest terminals would be fine, to cut down on development cost and time.

[iheartnyc]

This is a HUGE problem for SWTOR, which is why I've been suggesting since December (when I first saw this with my alts) that they need alternative levelling zones - they can do them without voice acting, just the text quest like you get from the quest terminals would be fine, to cut down on development cost and time.

 

And I'm sure you realized when you suggsted this, that there was absolutely no way that Bioware would be able to implement this before 2013? It would require so much additional work, that it just would not be possible. Basically I think you would need to create new planets. Just adding additional zones within each planet would create a logistical monster, given that the class story-lines are very linear and it would be difficult to rewrite the whole story using existing zones.

 

It's the same sinking feeling I got when I realized that the Hero engine will prevent us from seeing large-scale RvR or world PvP or prevent us from seeing high-res textures, at least in 2012. If it ever shows up in 2013, highly doubt the people who quit the game will come back for it so what's the point.

Edited May 21, 2012 by iheartnyc

[Gokkus]

I dont understand what trust has to with it. Its a game people. They did their best to make a game that people like (obviously, if only just to make money) and will do that again with their next game. If you mean trust as in: having faith that the developers are sufficiently skilled to make a fun game....then yes, I do trust BW.

 

Methinks some people are greatly exaggerating (maybe due to disappointment) how bad this game is. It has so much going for it and it is completely unfair to write this of as a failed or horrible game. Yes I know there are certain things going on that some players have huge objections against but that still does not make this game nearly as bas as some like to describe it. Because if SWTOR was in fact, that bad, then I have no idea why those players were here in the first place.

Edited May 21, 2012 by Gokkus

[Nyla]

This is a HUGE problem for SWTOR, which is why I've been suggesting since December (when I first saw this with my alts) that they need alternative levelling zones - they can do them without voice acting, just the text quest like you get from the quest terminals would be fine, to cut down on development cost and time.

 

It would help for sure but at same time I don't really agree there's a problem.

Why ? because it's so easy to overlevel the content.

 

Between side quests, bonus series, heroic quests, space, flashpoints, warzones, there's imo enough to make the leveling different enough each time.

 

Sure you have to do your class and world quests each time but all the rest can be mixed as you want.

[Trenter]

Well one day you may want to be able to run HM ops or try a bit of competitive PvPing. It's great fun. And at that point, you will need to grind. Just pray that when you are finally done gearing yourself up, that there are enough people left to group with to actually run the content through with you to make it worthwhile.

 

Thanks, but I don't think that'll happen. I've happily played mmos for almost a decade without doing much competitive PvP or the raiding thing. Tried them both, didn't really enjoy them

[Buddhalux]

What scares me is that I'm starting to feel that SWG NGE > SWTOR. I never thought that I would ever feel that way after SOE destroyed 2 of my favorite games (SWG and PS). But at least SWG was playable, sand box, and had real space fighting.

[iheartnyc]

I dont understand what trust has to with it. Its a game people. They did their best to make a game that people like (obviously, if only just to make money) and will do that again with their next game. If you mean trust as in: having faith that the developers are sufficiently skilled to make a fun game....then yes, I do trust BW.

 

Methinks some people are greatly exaggerating (maybe due to disappointment) how bad this game is. It has so much going for it and it is completely unfair to write this of as a failed or horrible game. Yes I know there are certain things going on that some players have huge objections against but that still does not make this game nearly as bas as some like to describe it. Because if SWTOR was in fact, that bad, then I have no idea why those players were here in the first place.

 

Trust is simple. MMOs are really like a relationship. I will spend my time and energy getting to know you, and believe that it will payoff in the future (mariage, maybe a little you know what after a date). That is trust.

 

We just kind of feel like we entered a relationship where the other party was never that serious to begin with. Looking back, what was the point of all that grinding and running the same 4 WZs hundreds of times? We were hoping (and trusting) that Bioware would keep the game alive and deliver us with content and features that would allow us to leverage our time committed. They have yet to make good on our faith. We still sit here, waiting in this abusive relationship believing that the game will change, will get better, despite all our friends and family telling us to move on and find someone else and better.

 

And before you say "a game is not a relationship," ya right. An MMO is a serious time commitment. Anyone who is over level 50 and still playing has probably spent over 10 days playing the game since launch. That's 240 hours at least, which we will NEVER get back. 240 hours which we could have spent doing other things, things more enjoyable than grinding for gear in the hopes of having some benefit at the end, which we trusted Bioware to deliver. Where is that benefit?

 

The million dollar question is, would you date someone who failed to deliver on "you know what" after 6 months of being in a relationship? And if you breakup, would you simply say, "well at least I got to know her! It was fun going on dates with her!" Ya right. You would probably be angry and kicking yourself for having wasted your time and having missed out on other opportunities.

[ISTrick]

Yes.

 

The only thing they've done that really peaved me was that cluster**** of an ending to my beloved Mass Effect trilogy..

 

... but I'm getting over that now, and have hope that somehow the enhanced cut or whatever it's called fills the gaping holes of plot that are riddled in my tear filled ending ;P

 

 

 

I love SWTOR, adore Dragon Age Origins, liked Dragon Age 2 and really, really, REALLY loved the Mass Effect trilogy (albeit minus the last 15 minutes).... They also made Baldur's Gate, so just for that - they get a free pass to 'Take my Money' for 20 years (2018 that pass runs out however) - good times. :D:D

[Goretzu]

And I'm sure you realized when you suggsted this, that there was absolutely no way that Bioware would be able to implement this before 2013? It would require so much additional work, that it just would not be possible. Basically I think you would need to create new planets. Just adding additional zones within each planet would create a logistical monster, given that the class story-lines are very linear and it would be difficult to rewrite the whole story using existing zones.

 

It's the same sinking feeling I got when I realized that the Hero engine will prevent us from seeing large-scale RvR or world PvP or prevent us from seeing high-res textures, at least in 2012. If it ever shows up in 2013, highly doubt the people who quit the game will come back for it so what's the point.

 

Yeah it wouldn't be something they could have done in a week or a month..... but maybe in 6 months they could have added them (again without voice acting and cut scenes, dev time and money would be much reduced).

 

I don't think it would have been that difficult in game though, because the bonus zones are something similar and don't follow the main story quests...... however there just aren't enough bonus zones currently to give an alt a different path.

[Nyla]

...

We just kind of feel like we entered a relationship where the other party was never that serious to begin with. Looking back, what was the point of all that grinding and running the same 4 WZs hundreds of times? We were hoping (and trusting) that Bioware would keep the game alive and deliver us with content and features that would allow us to leverage our time committed. They have yet to make good on our faith. We still sit here, waiting in this abusive relationship believing that the game will change, will get better, despite all our friends and family telling us to move on and find someone else and better.

....

 

I just want to comment on that.

 

The problem is you came here with a specific mindset and Bioware did their thing with another mindset in mind.

 

You grinded warzones to get your commendations expecting that later the gear would have some bigger purpose. You spent your time as mean to get to unknown end you were expecting BW would reveal after a while.

 

Bioware made the warzones to give players a fun activity they would like for itself. The rewards were made to give a long term goal to players as a bonus. It wasn't supposed to be grinded and that's why they got surprised by the amount of warzones played.

 

 

The problem here is the difference between people that spend 2-3 hours per week and thoses that spend 3-4+ hours per day. BW told us but it seems it wasn't heard, TOR is not for the hardcores and yes playing 3-4 hours/day is being hardcore.

 

TOR wasn't made for your playstyle, that's all.

[Armourboy]

What scares me is that I'm starting to feel that SWG NGE > SWTOR. I never thought that I would ever feel that way after SOE destroyed 2 of my favorite games (SWG and PS). But at least SWG was playable, sand box, and had real space fighting.

 

 

Eh lets not get too crazy. SWG right before it shut off might have been better than right after the NGE hit but it was still pretty bad. I tried going back I don't know how many times, and at the end of the day the only thing that felt great about it was the openness of it and crafting.The combat still required horrible work arounds through macros and such and it still had bugs from launch in it. I will agree on the space though they should of just stole it straight from SWG

[Cerion]

The question presumes I've lost trust with BioWare, which I haven't. They've done nothing in my mind to loose that trust.

 

They had me at Minsc...

[Ali_]

Bioware is pretty much dead to me, their last great game IMO was Dragon Age Origins and No, never will I trust them again, they lie, dodge questions, and give us anything but specific answers. My server once had a healthy community but thanks to bioware's lies about ranked and inability to transfer/merge servers, we now average around 5-6 on fleet during prime time.

[Karkais]

My issue is that this is an MMO. And in end-game, that is all about gear-grinding and valor grinding. Why do people grind gear and valor in an MMO? Simple. Because end-game is supposed to be competitive, and there's the element of needing to be adequately geared to run certain content. NOBODY enjoys the act of grinding. It's really brutal actually. We grind because we have a "sense of urgency" that we need to get this piece of gear or else we can't do this raid, or we will get steamrolled in ranked PVP.

 

If its supposed to be competitive, whats there to win?

 

Imaginary respect, thats all.

Edited May 21, 2012 by Karkais

[DiabloDoom]

There isn't an abundance of endgame content being implemented yet, because just as Nyla has stated, the casuals are not yet ready. They will let everyone catch up on the hardcores because it's in their best interest to do so ... financially.

[Jandi]

There isn't an abundance of endgame content being implemented yet, because just as Nyla has stated, the casuals are not yet ready. They will let everyone catch up on the hardcores because it's in their best interest to do so ... financially.

 

Running your game to the ground is a good idea financially? On what planet?

[DiabloDoom]

Running your game to the ground is a good idea financially? On what planet?

 

I think you completely missed the point. Casual players outnumber hardcore players by a considerable amount, and if they added higher tiered gear/content everytime that the hardcore players ran out of things to accomplish then the casual players would never be able to compete and would dwindle away as would the profits.

[iheartnyc]

If its supposed to be competitive, whats there to win?

 

Imaginary respect, thats all.

 

How is it imaginary? The only difference between a competitive game and IRL sports or other competition is that one is done online...the other is done through some physical medium.

 

Look at all the real world respect and attention an online company like Facebook is getting IRL.

 

And what's the point of any other PVP game like CS or SC or COD?

[JollyRogers]

Trust is simple. MMOs are really like a relationship. I will spend my time and energy getting to know you, and believe that it will payoff in the future (mariage, maybe a little you know what after a date). That is trust.

[/quote[

 

Then, in that case, I'd say the issue is yours. A MMO and its customers are a business relationship. The MMO company offers entertainment for a price. It is up to the customer to decide if that entertainment is of equal (or more) value that the company is charging. A customer who takes that relationship beyond that, only has themselves to blame for disappointment.

 

And before you say "a game is not a relationship," ya right. An MMO is a serious time commitment. Anyone who is over level 50 and still playing has probably spent over 10 days playing the game since launch. That's 240 hours at least, which we will NEVER get back. 240 hours which we could have spent doing other things, things more enjoyable than grinding for gear in the hopes of having some benefit at the end, which we trusted Bioware to deliver. Where is that benefit?

 

That's 240 hours THAT CUSTOMER decided to spend playing a game, for a cost, because the cost was worth it to them. No game is a "serious time commitment" beyond whatever the customer decides to do with their time.

 

The million dollar question is, would you date someone who failed to deliver on "you know what" after 6 months of being in a relationship? And if you breakup, would you simply say, "well at least I got to know her! It was fun going on dates with her!" Ya right. You would probably be angry and kicking yourself for having wasted your time and having missed out on other opportunities.

 

Then that's your choice, as a customer. However, attempting to take the perception of devalued entertainment into something beyond it, is silly. There is no "relationship" other than a merchant offering a product, and the customer determining if the value is equal to the cost to them.

[iheartnyc]

I think you completely missed the point. Casual players outnumber hardcore players by a considerable amount, and if they added higher tiered gear/content everytime that the hardcore players ran out of things to accomplish then the casual players would never be able to compete and would dwindle away as would the profits.

 

I think you missed the point. I'm not asking for another tier of gear. Not even close. Just want SWTOR to save the game, give us features that will prevent people on one of the many dying servers to stay. Make the game fun for all of us by adding in a LFG tool. Otherwise, the game will die, and nobody will have anything to do.

[Rikeryo]

no. they've done everything to lose trust.

 

oh, and please add: no anti-aliasing at launch - and still horrible performance in pvp situations - lulz.

[iheartnyc]

 

That's 240 hours THAT CUSTOMER decided to spend playing a game, for a cost, because the cost was worth it to them. No game is a "serious time commitment" beyond whatever the customer decides to do with their time.

 

I think you missed the nuance. Everything you've said I would agree with, but this is an MMO. An MMO is unique in that you take a GAMBLE that there will be end-game content that will prove your time investment worthwhile. It is like making a real life investment decision in a company. You do it based on track-record and the promises made. There is no way to know what an MMO will look like 1 year from launch b/c it is a constantly evolving process, but we hope and expect good to come out of it.

 

And yes, you can get burned. Which is why I asked, will we ever trust Bioware again?

[DiabloDoom]

I think you missed the point. I'm not asking for another tier of gear. Not even close. Just want SWTOR to save the game, give us features that will prevent people on one of the many dying servers to stay. Make the game fun for all of us by adding in a LFG tool. Otherwise, the game will die, and nobody will have anything to do.

 

I was solely referring to why there wasn't lot's of new endgame accomplishments and gear being implemented, that is all. I never mentioned a word about features such as LFG, so no I never missed any point, even though I was replying to someone else ...