So what killed PvP?

[Ghamsar]

30 people at fleet , ques of 8 vs 5 after an hour wait...(I Don't remember it being that way)

 

I wonder if there is something in the difference in player base and gamesmanship that people actually would have continued to play?

 

Was it the gimmicks, kill trades, hacks, FOTM, and abusing games advantages/imbalances...that caused many of the casuals to unsub or stop PvP'ing?

 

I wonder why people stopped playing....the graphics are great, story-lines are great, the individual classes are each unique and fun.....but for the life of me I can't figure out what "IN THE GAME" caused people to unsub and not play PvP?

 

The GAME is great...not sure what could have saved it from being in the state that it is in.

 

 

any thoughts?

 

 

PS: better mod?

Edited May 21, 2012 by Ghamsar

[mamosh]

mine was simple there is no ppl to play with

[Ghamsar]

did you report my originalthread that stated where the problem is directly attributed to?

[Eszi]

Lack of a goal/epeen/whatever, you name it.

The warzones get boring quite fast at level 50, the only reason to do them is to get better gear, so you can be better at them. But when you get wh stuff, there is just no point.

No sieges, no kewl stuff, no "this battle was so epic, and I was there" feeling, you don't feel that you win anything for your faction or your guild, you don't even feel like you should care about winning.

Also, in some cases 5h queues.

[Haystak]

Que times went from 15min to Biblical proportions on my side.

 

The game is awesome, but there is nothing to fill the time with, and if PvP is out, then there is nothing else. With ilum being dead, and nothing else to replace it, there is little soul left in pvp for the servers that do not have high populations.

 

I will probably create a new toon and play on one of the more populated servers, its probably my only option

[HeavensTerror]

Diablo 3 killed my server's pvp. Never had too much of a problem getting que. Sure they took awhile, but they did pop.

 

Once May 15 hit, the rep side turned into a ghost town. I'm lucky to get into a game now, I wouldn't even mind playing 5v8, 6v8, etc. I'd just like to play the game.

 

Can't wait for xfers.

[getdownsb]

30 people at fleet , ques of 8 vs 5 after an hour wait...(I Don't remember it being that way). I wonder if there is something in the difference in player base and gamesmanship that people actually would have continued to play?

 

Was it the gimmicks, kill trades, hacks, FOTM, and abusing games advantages/imbalances...that caused many of the casuals to unsub or stop PvP'ing?

 

I wonder why people stopped playing....the graphics are great, story-lines are great, the individual classes are each unique and fun.....but for the life of me I can't figure out what "IN THE GAME" caused people to unsub and not play PvP? The GAME is great...not sure what could have saved it from being in the state that it is in.

 

Any thoughts? PS: better mod?

 

It's not the casuals that have unsubbed. It's anyone that was even moderately good at PvP or PvE. They're all gone because this game has nothing to offer them. No challenge, nothing new, and a slew of complete game management and design screw-ups running back through the first closed betas. The whole damn game is easymode, and they only way they have attempted to add the illusion of difficulty is through mind numbingly boring carrot + stick grinds.

 

It's only now, weeks after the top tier of players on most servers have jumped ship, that the casuals are starting to unsub. You know, all of the people that said all throughout beta "this is the best game ever, if you have a problem with it you obviously don't like MMOs". Yeah, well now they're the ones saying "premades destroy us, everyone hacks, X class is OP, my class is broken, I can't make credits, my server is dead, the story story story was cool but what the heck do I do now????".

Edited May 21, 2012 by getdownsb

[IronScarlet]

It's not the casuals that have unsubbed. It's anyone that was even moderately good at PvP. They're all gone because this game has nothing to offer them. No challenge, nothing new, and a slew of complete game management and design screw-ups running back through the first closed betas.

 

 

 

 

 

What he said + 1.2 expertise blunder that buffed dps to a point where anyone geared and moderately good can kill u in 4-5 GCD = no skill. PVP has to be challenging and its so boring now.

 

They should of for 1.2 buffed tanks only nerf healers skill also make dps and heals expertise equal , but buff tanks expertise now we have a challenging game. Tanks are not even tanky in this game .

 

Now its somthing like this expertise values

1.7 dps, 1.2 Mitigration, 1.0 heals

 

It should have been

 

1.7 Mitigration, 1.2 dps, 1.2 heals

Edited May 21, 2012 by IronScarlet

[Razot]

A combination of things. Ill just throw in my opinion on the main problems.

 

1. Expertise - We will never know how many people canceled their pre order when Bioware announced the PVP stat during beta, I remember massive rage and almost canceled myself until I decided it was worth the box price to have a front row seat to the drama. 1-49 is pretty much PVP,50 is pretty much GvG and you can for the most part say goodbye to open world PVP with a PVP stat unless its baselined between tiers the lowest being avail to anyone with only slight increases in stats per tier or comsmetic. ( Ya... Ya... we all know why the stat is in game but it was handled very poorly! the stat itself should not be part of the progression)

2. The game engine itself and faction imbalances for the most part killed any hope for meaningful open world PVP, and I'm sorry WZ's this size are just a mini game but with the engine i don't see anything that would make pvp anything more than just a mini game with zerg maps.

3. Gear progression or rank progression has no reason to be in open world PVP as its leads to fight clubbing( ex SWG non Fight Clubbing Jedi here so i know how people are and it sucks) or what we had kill trading, but luckily #2 happened or else we would still be stuck with that garbage.

4. WZ's are too small and repetitive and lack of them makes it even worse.

5. 1-49 you get to have your look with orange gear and its actually a really good system. 1.2 sucked the wind out of a lot people making it that only WH mods will keep the set bonus while everyone just looks like a clone.

6. Pre mades vrs the solo pugs and the lack of any tiers between valor ranks.. nobody likes to be farmed and most people do not enjoy farming, combined with #4 and people really loose interest fast.

7. Expertise 1.2 I could write a book about that one but you all know so why bother.

 

There is more but I just don't really care anymore.

Cya at launch!

Edited May 21, 2012 by Razot

[doctorfirepants]

No pvp killed pvp. I like the WZ's, but is 4 wz's and nothing else really going to sustain those players that want to mainly pvp. I enjoyed SWTOR and am still rooting for it, but when it comes down to it, I really feel like this is the most lackluster pvp I've ever experienced in an mmo. I just don't see anything that will keep a solid amount of hardcore pvp'rs coming back, and even most casuals will be turned off by it.

[DarthSabreth]

most of my friends including myself love pvp including the wz's but have been discouraged by all the premade's farming the wz's. this pretty much killed pvp for us.

[Serpieri]

Bioware

[IronScarlet]

someone whould sticky this thread,its the truth. Worst pvp experiance in MMO history. Still love the Game but whoever is incharge of pvp for SWTOR must not know what he is doing, or is tied down by all the suits behind him. Really whos bright Idia was it to seperate factions. Edited May 21, 2012 by IronScarlet

[getdownsb]

1. 1.2 expertise blunder that buffed dps to a point where anyone geared and moderately good can kill u in 4-5 GCD = no skill.
   
2. also make dps and heals expertise equal
   

 

1. Incorrect, you're understanding of expertise is incomplete and flawed.
   
2. Ironically, this would do exactly what you believe (incorrectly) was done to DPS via expertise. It would be a massive buff to healers.
   

 

Try again.

Edited May 21, 2012 by getdownsb

[IronScarlet]

1. Incorrect, you're understanding of expertise is incomplete and flawed.
   
2. Ironically, this would do exactly what you believe (incorrectly) was done to DPS via expertise. It would be a massive buff to healers.
   

 

Try again.

 

 

TRY AGAIN TROLL or you cant read.

I posted that Expertise need to be chage so dps is equal to heals which it is not now its 8% higher actually to heals. go read the 300 post about it . + I said Mitigration need to be BUFFED

 

pls dont edit my quote like a reporter to fit your inflated ego.

 

What he said + 1.2 expertise blunder that buffed dps to a point where anyone geared and moderately good can kill u in 4-5 GCD = no skill. PVP has to be challenging and its so boring now.

 

They should of for 1.2 buffed tanks only nerf healers skill also make dps and heals expertise equal , but buff tanks expertise now we have a challenging game. Tanks are not even tanky in this game .

 

Now its somthing like this expertise values

1.7 dps, 1.2 Mitigration, 1.0 heals

 

It should have been

 

1.7 Mitigration, 1.2 dps, 1.2 heals

 

 

I will fix my mistake though

 

the value really is in 1.2

18% DPS, 10% heals , 8% mitigration

 

This make tanks worthless and heals in the same boat with dps queens above loving every bit of it. 50% player bas tanks/healer given the shaft so gues what we all rerolled dps now its zerg fest , no skill of a game.

Edited May 21, 2012 by IronScarlet

[getdownsb]

TRY AGAIN TROLL or you cant read.

I posted that Expertise need to be chage so dps is equal to heals which it is not now its 8% higher actually to heals. go read the 300 post about it .

 

No it's not. Again, I suggest you Google "basic math". The expertise damage increase expertise value is 100% canceled out by the expertise damage reduction expertise value. The expertise healing increase expertise value has no counter expertise stat, although it is effected by the trauma de-buff which is intended to balance PvE healing values for PvP. Again, you're understanding of expertise is flawed and incorrect.

 

Ignoring this tangent of mental mistakes, the real reason that PvP in this game is dying is because if you pick up the phone and dial up the number for BioWare Austin, SW:ToR PvP division you get

. Edited May 21, 2012 by getdownsb

[IronScarlet]

No it's not. Again, I suggest you Google "basic math". The expertise damage increase expertise value[/url] is 100% canceled out by the expertise damage reduction expertise value[/url]. The expertise healing increase expertise value[/url] has no counter expertise stat, although it is effected by the trauma de-buff which is intended to balance PvE healing values for PvP. Again, you're understanding of expertise is flawed and incorrect.

 

Ignoring this tangent of mental mistakes, the real reason that PvP in this game is dying is because if you pick up the phone and dial up the number for BioWare Austin, SW:ToR PvP division you get

.

 

There is a 10% diffrance it mitigration to dps what are you talking about. Did you miss the 1.2 patch lol

 

ps this isnt wow

Edited May 21, 2012 by IronScarlet

[Razot]

Ignoring this tangent of mental mistakes, the real reason that PvP in this game is dying is because if you pick up the phone and dial up the number for BioWare Austin, SW:ToR PvP division you get

.

 

LOL!!!

Well we ran a

on the effects of expertise in TOR in a safe environment and get the same results every time.. Edited May 21, 2012 by Razot

[getdownsb]

There is a 10% diffrance it mitigration to dps what are you talking about. Did you miss the 1.2 patch lol

 

ps this isnt wow

 

I could come up with a new way to tell you that you're wrong but I can see that it would be a waste of my time.

 

I will fix my mistake though

 

the value really is in 1.2

18% DPS, 10% heals , 8% mitigration

 

This make tanks worthless and heals in the same boat with dps queens above loving every bit of it. 50% player bas tanks/healer given the shaft so gues what we all rerolled dps now its zerg fest , no skill of a game.

 

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n40/rfisher3/SWToR/expertise.jpg

 

I don't know where you are coming up with your numbers, because they're not possible in SW:ToR. However, here are some real numbers, for some real math. If I were to clone myself, then attack myself for 1000 damage I would:

 

1) Do 1000 * 1.2394 = 1239.4 damage

2) Then receive 1239.4 - (1239.4 * 0.1931) = 1000.07186 damage.

 

Want to keep going?

Edited May 21, 2012 by getdownsb

[Daxun]

People have already said it, but it's because of the low server pops.

BW has about waited too long to merg or do free character xfers too. I'm running on the free month but haven't played the game in over a month. With D3 and SC2 expansion (later this year) it's gonna be hard to come back when they do finally get around to addressing the server population issue

 

It's a shame too. This is a good game. It's just hard to play an MMO w/o a healthy community...

[Achyllis]

Many organized guilds were prepping for ranked WZs. When BW pulled their last minute bait and switch people responded with their wallets. Then the expertise changes turned the game into CoD. Since that's free to play online more folks quit.

 

Six months of subs with one new WZ, Ilum removed, and two sets of gear obsolete already. Gear stat expertise imbalance thanks to ridiculous and overreactionary expertise "update" lead to plunging participation.

 

Oh yeah then there are Tera and D3.

 

BW PvP dev team = unprepared amateurs. Sad but true.

[jediharrsion]

30 people at fleet , ques of 8 vs 5 after an hour wait...(I Don't remember it being that way)

 

I wonder if there is something in the difference in player base and gamesmanship that people actually would have continued to play?

 

Was it the gimmicks, kill trades, hacks, FOTM, and abusing games advantages/imbalances...that caused many of the casuals to unsub or stop PvP'ing?

 

I wonder why people stopped playing....the graphics are great, story-lines are great, the individual classes are each unique and fun.....but for the life of me I can't figure out what "IN THE GAME" caused people to unsub and not play PvP?

 

The GAME is great...not sure what could have saved it from being in the state that it is in.

 

 

any thoughts?

 

 

PS: better mod?

 

simple pvp was killed my chain stuning. and the lack of counters to the stuns

[ShadowOfVey]

It's easy to see that expertise gives a higher % bonus to damage than it does to damage reduction, and conclude that the higher both players expertise goes the damage will be higher.

 

This is not the case.

 

They do actually cancel each other out very nearly perfectly, just takes simple math to see why.

 

For example my alt I'm on atm has 1223 expertise.

 

In the character window that says 23.04% bonus damage from expertise, and 18.73% damage decrease.

 

Reading that you might think that means more damage is added from expertise than damage defended due to expertise, not so.

 

Lets assume I attack myself with an attack that, if expertise was 0, did 1000 damage. Then it gets the 23.04% expertise bonus.

 

1000 * 1.2304 = 1230.4. Well okay.

 

Now my 18.73% damage decrease is figured in.

100 - 18.73 = 81.27

1230.4 * .8127 = 999.94608.

 

So with a 23.04% expertise bonus and an 18.73% damage reduction, a 1000 damage attack did 999.94608 damage. Almost cancels out perfectly. This is how the formula currently works in game.

 

Previously, as both players rose in expertise with the bonus applied "equally" in percentage, players actually did LESS damage to each other. Someone with 500 expertise pre 1.2 did less damage to another player with 500 expertise than a 0 expertise player would do to another 0 expertise player.

 

Right now expertise actually does what people THOUGHT it did in 1.2, cancels itself out. It did not pre 1.2, it does now.

Edited May 21, 2012 by ShadowOfVey

[Aaoogaa]

1.2

1.2

1.2

1.2

[kaya]

The lousy server pop.

Fighting the same 2 dozen people over and over and over again gets dull.

1.2 being a generally lousy update - or at least a dissapointing one.

No ranked wz's, 2 months on and people are only starting to see the benefits of the change to end game gear with wearing what you want (set at a level out of reach of a large population of the players).

Novare Coast is fun and a welcome addition that goes a long way to making up for them effectively removing Ilum and Lost Island is ... difficult.

It didn't add much to the game

 

The expertise change - pvper's who found the game too slow paced had left by that point, now they lost the players who liked the slow pace (healers were invincible with guard so a change was needed, the change given was dissapointing).

 

Crap game support - everytime theres an update that throws up random bugs for people and they have to get in touch with game support they're going to lose a few customers. Their support is pitiful.

 

Just generally bad management of the game basically. They got the launch as good as any mmo is likely to get but 99% of the changes made since have done more harm than good.