Socializing in MMORPGs ... Nearing Extinction?

[GalacticKegger]

Bioware threw a party intended to promote mingling, only to find out that many who came were made to feel uncomfortable because mingling means they can't hide. That's a scary proposition for some. So I think even if every server was full there'd still be masses crying for a LFG tool.

 

WoW's LFG made it possible to solo through the entire game, but in the process enabled droppping group when things went bad or bailing on a party the moment a particular boss drop did or didn't happen. A sizable percentage of WoW's 10+ million MMO gamers became drones conditioned to ignore socializing as a result.

 

Why physically converse with someone when you can send a dry text or email and spinelessly avoid having to deal with "the human condition" first hand? Why hang with local players and group together when you can click a button and get matched up with other players like an Internet dating service? Almost seems like every "new generation" MMO player from here on will suffer from having 1,000 channels at their disposal and finding there's nothing on - and it won't be from a lack of programming.

 

It's a different age I'm afraid, where an "instafriend" system is as close to socializing as many want to get. LFG created that and I don't think it's going away. Players who rely on RPG social skills to progress through a MMORPG seem to be a dying breed.

Edited May 20, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Moricthian]

LFG = Accesable content

 

Guilds = Socializing

 

Fortunately modern MMO's have both of these features.

[GalacticKegger]

LFG = Accesable content

 

Guilds = Socializing

 

Fortunately modern MMO's have both of these features.

Would be interesting to know what percentage of players are guilded versus unguilded. Edited May 20, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Megaloz]

I use to play Earth and Beyond when it was online. In there, everything was handled via the "Market Channel". There was no broker, or auction house, no LFG tool. You couldnt link items, and so forth. Everything had to be socialized. You wanted to hit a sector, you talked in market channel. You wanted to auction off a rare item, you talked in market channel. You wanted to lead a raid, you talked in market channel.

 

Now im not saying its great not to have tools to make things easier, BUT, i will say this....the community, that game formed, is without a doubt, miles, upon miles ahead of what you see in TOR. You got to know almost everyone on server, because you had to communicate with them. If you wanted anything done, you had to communicate.

 

Nowadays, you dont have to say one word in your entire MMO life, and still accomplish everything. Is that a good thing or bad? Well it definitely dont make a better, close community, i tell you that.....and i actually miss that part of an MMO.

[Moricthian]

I like the community optional system most MMOs have now. Some people just don't want to socialize but still want to play MMO's for other reasons (all the more true with TOR as it has a great solo leveling experience). However with the creation of guilds and the features it provides, modern MMOs have given players the ability to create mini communities for themselves that, while maybe not as large as an entire server, still a maintain an equal if not closer level of intimacy and social interaction. Therefore options like cross-server LFG tools and the like don't really affect those close knit communities but give those who arn't really apart of a guild a chance to run group content in a consistent basis.

 

I'd rather a game not shove socializing down my throat but have features that let me decide how much socializing I want to do on any given day.

Edited May 20, 2012 by Moricthian

[EJedi]

Socializing in game is not the same as socializing outside the game.

 

I don't care if you are a doctor or a cashier. I don't want to think of you as anything other than a jedi/trooper/etc. when I'm playing the game. When I log off, I don't want to talk to you anymore. I have enough going on in my life. I don't need to bring my hobby group home with me.

 

I do have some real life friends (who were already my friends before SWTOR) that I play games with. That's all the outside-the-game interaction I need where the game might come up.

 

I went to a BlizzCon event with some friends, but we didn't wear our character names on our badges because that's not the point. We don't want people to think of our characters as anything other than what they are in the game.

 

Real life and game life are kept separate for a reason. I don't want either invading on the other.

 

Having said all of that, I don't like the concept of random LFG systems. I feel like you should build relationships with other players IN THE GAME. That has nothing to do with wanting to interact with them outside the game.

Edited May 20, 2012 by EJedi

[Darkulous]

Bioware threw a party intended to promote mingling, only to find out that many who came were made to feel uncomfortable because mingling means they can't hide. That's a scary proposition for some. So I think even if every server was full there'd still be masses crying for a LFG tool.

 

WoW's LFG made it possible to solo through the entire game, but in the process enabled droppping group when things went bad or bailing on a party the moment a particular boss drop did or didn't happen. A sizable percentage of WoW's 10+ million MMO gamers became drones conditioned to ignore socializing as a result.

 

Why physically converse with someone when you can send a dry text or email and spinelessly avoid having to deal with "the human condition" first hand? Why hang with local players and group together when you can click a button and get matched up with other players like an Internet dating service? Almost seems like every "new generation" MMO player from here on will suffer from having 1,000 channels at their disposal and finding there's nothing on - and it won't be from a lack of programming.

 

It's a different age I'm afraid, where an "instafriend" system is as close to socializing as many want to get. LFG created that and I don't think it's going away. Players who rely on RPG social skills to progress through a MMORPG seem to be a dying breed.

 

It's socializing in general that's become more "instant." Any time a technology gets released that provides a faster way of doing something, people latch onto it regardless of any negative impact.

[GalacticKegger]

Both are addon dependent, which means playing mods instead of playing the game. Had my fill of that with WoW, whose social aspects were really good up until the Cata release. Then it shifted to all grind all the time after clearing through TH in a week. (Firelands absolutely sucked imo.) It's all about gearing up now ... even at the expense of mates one plays with. Seems to be a plague in this genre. Edited May 21, 2012 by Qishari
removed quoted spam

[Mallorik]

People are so dramatic about lfg tools. I dont know how other people use it but heres how i used them in Wow and Rift..

 

#1) I would ask in guild "Who needs a heroic" if we come up short of a full group we lfm a couple of times, that doesnt work we fill it with the lfg tool.

 

#2) If im on during off peak and none of my guild is on or they dont need a heroic, Since im a tank ill spam lfg chat a couple of times, then use the que.

 

Now i no im not everybody and everybody doesnt do that, but a very large portion of people do , i havent played wow for over a year so i dont know if its trending that way still, but in rift it is just common practice, much quicker and much easier to get a group that way.

 

I dont see how that effects the commnity one bit. It only lets me put together a group in a reasonable amount of time without having to spam lfg chat till half the server has me on ignore.

Edited May 20, 2012 by Mallorik

[Socialist]

I do not have anything to talk about with the average gamer, so I don't socialize, just play my game like it is single player. The way I like it.

 

 

Not that I don't like the average gamer, it is just that I find most of them dull. So conversation becomes a burden (I am extremely polite and always return attention) instead of enjoyment.

 

 

When I find someone to discuss surplus value, Bakunin, Jefferson Airplane, weed, economy, nihilism, Sartre and sex like my friends irl, then of course I'll enjoy socializing.

Edited May 20, 2012 by Socialist

[Moricthian]

Both are addon dependent, which means playing mods instead of playing the game. Had my fill of that with WoW, whose social aspects were really good up until the Cata release. Then it shifted to all grind all the time after clearing through TH in a week. It's all about gearing up now ... even at the expense of mates one plays with. Seems to be a plague in this genre.

 

You should have been in my guild. It was amazing. We did progression raids twice a week, raids from WOTLK and BC onother nights for funsies, had fishing contests, dance parties, barfing contests, Heroic Dungeon runs, Dailies. We did it all. It was some of the most fun I've ever had playing a video game ever. It was even post cataclysim.

[Etheric]

It's near extinction in real life as well, well at least here in the states, and i believe its just carried over into the gaming world. Look at the popularity of dating sites as an example, why put yourself out there and take the risk of getting to know someone from scratch when i can pre screen someone and chat with them from the secure safety of my computer screen. how many times do we say hello to our neighbor vs. the number of times we avoid eye contact at all costs. IMO humans have alway been and will always be oppertunistic by nature and give them the path of least resistence, they will take it

[Andryah]

IMO humans have alway been and will always be oppertunistic by nature and give them the path of least resistence, they will take it

 

Pretty much nails it right there.

 

In the old days of MMOs, before LFG systems, and auction houses.......if you wanted to move forward in the game you had to actually strike up conversations and interact.

 

In the modern MMO, most LFG PUGs are complete strangers who just want to bang through the instance and que for the next one. In fact the only meaningful conversations are most often a DPS yelling "GO GO GO!!" to the tank, or "PULL FASTER, I need to queue for another instance in 20 minutes!".

 

In the modern MMO, auction houses give you access to anything you need pretty much (save for the rare BoP stuff) without ever talking to anyone.

 

Not to mention, most people you see on the street these days are too busy putting nose prints on their smart phone to even notice you walking by. I'm sure that phone still gets nosed while they are playing their MMO too.

 

The only semblance of community left in MMOs is within guilds, but in reality many people join guilds as an easiest path to a goal and hop on to some other guild. So there is not much social loyalty there either unless it's player who have been together through multiple MMOs, or are RL friends with actuall social connections.

 

It's not coming back folks, so just let it go.

Edited May 20, 2012 by Andryah

[Baneberry]

Its a sad trend, but the massive is slowly being sucked out of the modern day MMORPG.

 

Here's the evolution that I have experienced first hand.

 

Ever Quest: I was only in a hand full of raids in this game. Naggy, CT, and I was lucky enough to tag along for a AoW kill once. The raids, as far as i could tell, were unlimited in size and the more people you had the better. I might be wrong about the size limit, but i was an EQ noob and still kind of am. it was my first into into MMO raiding, and it was FUN!

 

After I fell off of EQ, I kind of floated from game to game, never really getting too involved, but i spent time in DaOc, City of heroes, A free title here and there, never really settling down until i came across a little game called EvE online!

 

Eve Online: one massive server... No reason to split up the community, everyone plays together... So awesome. Eve's fleet battles.. unlimited Fleet size... hundreds of people fighting each other at the same time... Eve is the definition of Massive, and it is good. Eve has its strengths, and i commend it on its success and wish it nothing but the best in the future. I would still be playing eve if not for one thing. Along came...

 

World Of Warcraft: My Ever Quest guild rolled together into WoW. Wow didn't have the limitless raid size, but it did have 40 man raids. 40 man raids were amazing. Guilds were Huge, There were always people online to do things no matter what time of day because guild were hundreds of active people big. You needed a large pool of people to pull from if you wanted to fill 40 man raids 3-5 nights a week. This was the law of the jungle for years, until wow mad what I would consider the biggiest mistake to date.

 

They dropped the raid size from 40 down to 25/10... guilds that were tight nit groups of 50-60 players all of a sudden had to bench 15 of their raiders and guild mates. Sad times indeed followed as guilds that were together for years seemed to dissolve over night.

 

It was no longer required to have a large guild. 40 man guilds broke up into 10 and 25 man guilds, and the community seemed to split up and compartmentalize. I to this day am in touch with 60+ members of my original wow guild through a group on face book.

 

After 7 years of World of Warcraft, i felt it was time for a break from it. Swtor launched, and with it came yet another shrink in the raid size.

 

25/10 mans became 16/8 mans. Smaller guilds that broke apart if someone breathed on them too hard. Raid groups that couldn't run because one person was Mia one night and there were no other guildies online to take their place. unable to recruit new people because servers are completely dead.

 

This is the sad state of the Modern Not so Massively Multi-player Online Role playing game.

 

TLDR - Everquest has massive raids and guilds...

Eve Online has massive raids and guilds...

World of warcraft had big raids and guilds but now has small raids and guilds...

SWTOR has Tiny raids and guilds...

 

Games have been getting smaller as time goes on and and its sad.

Edited May 20, 2012 by Baneberry

[Andryah]

Play Rift, one of the best communities Ive ever met, and Elder Scroll Online is also real MMO.

 

Having played Rift for the better part of a year, I would say this was true early on, UNTIL character transfers opened, After that, the game was a bone yard of struggling (or dead) guilds gone belly up because their members would scatter to other servers for any little reason or whim.

 

Rift today, no, not really. But at least their character transfer process keeps people clustered together on the remaining live servers (which are only a fraction of what they were a year ago).

Edited May 20, 2012 by Andryah

[Kubernetic]

Bioware threw a party intended to promote mingling, only to find out that many who came were made to feel uncomfortable because mingling means they can't hide. That's a scary proposition for some. So I think even if every server was full there'd still be masses crying for a LFG tool.

 

WoW's LFG made it possible to solo through the entire game, but in the process enabled droppping group when things went bad or bailing on a party the moment a particular boss drop did or didn't happen. A sizable percentage of WoW's 10+ million MMO gamers became drones conditioned to ignore socializing as a result.

 

Why physically converse with someone when you can send a dry text or email and spinelessly avoid having to deal with "the human condition" first hand? Why hang with local players and group together when you can click a button and get matched up with other players like an Internet dating service? Almost seems like every "new generation" MMO player from here on will suffer from having 1,000 channels at their disposal and finding there's nothing on - and it won't be from a lack of programming.

 

It's a different age I'm afraid, where an "instafriend" system is as close to socializing as many want to get. LFG created that and I don't think it's going away. Players who rely on RPG social skills to progress through a MMORPG seem to be a dying breed.

 

Great post, OP. Perhaps the Facebook/Twitter generation has come home to roost in MMORPGs...

[Cerion]

You picked the wrong game, Play Rift, one of the best communities Ive ever met, and Elder Scroll Online is also real MMO. This forum actually reflects alot of this game, full of individuals, theres nothing we agree, everyone just whines. This forum is honestly most hostile Ive ever seen, well full of radicalism.

 

haha, there you go again with your Elder Scrolls Online pitch.....

[Dext]

Bioware threw a party intended to promote mingling, only to find out that many who came were made to feel uncomfortable because mingling means they can't hide. That's a scary proposition for some. So I think even if every server was full there'd still be masses crying for a LFG tool.

 

WoW's LFG made it possible to solo through the entire game, but in the process enabled droppping group when things went bad or bailing on a party the moment a particular boss drop did or didn't happen. A sizable percentage of WoW's 10+ million MMO gamers became drones conditioned to ignore socializing as a result.

 

Why physically converse with someone when you can send a dry text or email and spinelessly avoid having to deal with "the human condition" first hand? Why hang with local players and group together when you can click a button and get matched up with other players like an Internet dating service? Almost seems like every "new generation" MMO player from here on will suffer from having 1,000 channels at their disposal and finding there's nothing on - and it won't be from a lack of programming.

 

It's a different age I'm afraid, where an "instafriend" system is as close to socializing as many want to get. LFG created that and I don't think it's going away. Players who rely on RPG social skills to progress through a MMORPG seem to be a dying breed.

 

I talk to people all the time in General chat. It is just about helping out people and joining in when you see others talking about something you have feed back on. The LFG tool is nice but, I only really see people talking about what where doing at the time.

[Dext]

Quote: Originally Posted by BlueFromMoon

You picked the wrong game, Play Rift, one of the best communities Ive ever met, and Elder Scroll Online is also real MMO. This forum actually reflects alot of this game, full of individuals, theres nothing we agree, everyone just whines. This forum is honestly most hostile Ive ever seen, well full of radicalism.

 

Something that is not out and not much info is on and also you have yet to play. Your all ready saying it is better. Wait for it to be out before you try to say it is better.

[Aerevan]

The OP is the typical 'old school WoW' player. Yea, I remember back in vanilla when people had to lick some 14 year old GM's heels to get something done. It was called community; or the number of guilds that were filled with real life friends and real life friends of friends - where loot was distributed with the same reasoning. Yes, I like the LFG tool. I don't play very often and for that reason - won't even get invited, because I can't adhere to the playing scheme -, certainly do not want to subject to a group of people I barely know. It's always a formula for elitist behaviour and generally dicking around.

 

You see, because that's what most adherents of the anti-LFG coalition bothers most, it means their e-peen gear swaggering will mean less and less, because people do not have to jump through the hoops of some teenage dictator. Poor sods.

Edited May 20, 2012 by Aerevan

[Tenceriker]

In SWTOR? Yes, by making the game a solo fest with a few sprinkled group quests and penalizing players for grouping for most quests they did kill socializing while leveling. It works much the same way for PvP or PvE. However, other games have figured out clever ways to induce grouping so it isn't dead, unless you are playing SWTOR. Edited May 20, 2012 by Tenceriker

[Aerevan]

Pretty much nails it right there.

 

In the old days of MMOs, before LFG systems, and auction houses.......if you wanted to move forward in the game you had to actually strike up conversations and interact.

Mweah - I do not think back with much fondness to that period. I had no trouble finding groups, but guilds and running instances (especially end game and even more specifically raid instances) had an air of elitism hanging around. It had very little to do with gaming and more with The Wave (movie).

 

In the modern MMO, most LFG PUGs are complete strangers who just want to bang through the instance and que for the next one. In fact the only meaningful conversations are most often a DPS yelling "GO GO GO!!" to the tank, or "PULL FASTER, I need to queue for another instance in 20 minutes!".

 

You know, I always see these anecdotal stories come up. I've run alot of instances as a tank (leveled two characters almost all the way to 85 without leaving Orgrimmar), but apart from a few incidents I've never encountered this kind of behaviour. I have to say that, as a tank, I couldn't be made to care. Of course there were the 'raging nerd' kind of players ("ZOMG! Wurst tank evah!11") , but those were a few incidents - it was actually hilarious.

[SajmanPeetee]

When I look at the player base, I break it down into 3 general categories,

 

A) Uber elite trash talkers

B) Self-indulged whiners

C) Everyone else

 

And while group C may account for a vast majority of the player base, it's groups A + B that account for almost all of the chatter within the game. This is pretty consistent everywhere, it happens in guilds, it happens groups, it happens in warzones, it always the jerks that do the most talking.

 

I would much rather run through a dungeon with nobody saying anything to each other than have to go through a dungeon listening to the tank cry about poor dps, or the healer cry about a lack of cc, or the dps bragging about their uber numbers. Listening to those kinds of things doesn't appeal to me.

 

Truth is, I'd rather spend an hour working to beat an H4 with just myself and Qyzen then have it take 10 minutes and possibly have to listen to trash talking and whining.

 

Yes, 8 out of 10 groups are fantastic but 8 out of 10 is unacceptable when I guarantee myself a quality experience 10 out of 10 times playing alone.

[Dibdabs]

Socializing in game is not the same as socializing outside the game.

 

I don't care if you are a doctor or a cashier. I don't want to think of you as anything other than a jedi/trooper/etc. when I'm playing the game. When I log off, I don't want to talk to you any more. I have enough going on in my life. I don't need to bring my hobby group home with me.

 

Yep, I agree with all of that. I started playing multiplayer online games back in the days of dial-up on the Bulletin Board Systems (400 baud, lol) that preceded the Internet and have played online with people ever since. I'm just not interested in the personal history of some guy I bump into online, same as I'm not interested in the personal history of the guy next to me on the bus.

 

Additionally, if I can solo game content - and let's face it, who can't in the simplistic MMORPGs we are stuck with these days - why wouldn't I? Why share the loot and resources with someone who is utterly surplus to requirements? I'd maybe socialise more if the majority of people playing MMORPGs didn't seem to think that putting the odd "lol" (or other acronym) in the Chat box counts as social interaction. Oh the joy of interacting with a real person... not.

Edited May 20, 2012 by Dibdabs

[Sammm]

haha, there you go again with your Elder Scrolls Online pitch.....

 

Bwahahaha, I had exactly the same thought than you when I read his post... again. I think he wrote something like 120 ESO related posts in about 2 weeks, 2 weeks! That's about 9 ESO posts everyday in a SWTOR forum! Btw, a lot of his posts are basically copy-pastes. *double facepalm*... nah *triple facepalm*

 

About socializing in mmorpg. Things surely changed since the first internet mmorpgs in the 90s. Back then, I wasn't interested at all about mmo but I heard many stories about it from veteran mmo gamers.

They told me that back then everything in mmorpgs felt like new and exciting. They felt like pioneers discovering a new virtual world and a new way to game. They felt it was special partly because it wasn't really popular yet. Players really took the time to know each other, to organize events and raids.

It took way more time and effort to complete anything but they felt it was more meaningful and rewarding at the end of the day, and it encouraged players to cooperate much more. Maybe it was only nostalgia that was talking though.

 

Back to the present. Usually, mmo developers do everything they can to lure as many (millions) gamers as possible. To achieve it, they made their games much easier and much less time consuming.

Also, I feel like the mmo gamers have become more cynical. What I mean is that after many years of playing at least 3-4 different mmos, they became disillusioned and worn out because of some personal mmo experiences. After years of griefing, trolling, repetitive guild dramas in guilds without strong leadership, ninja lootings, insults, death threats, hacked accounts, stealing, they just don't want to put up with all that "cr@p" anymore. So they usually prefer to socialize in a much more controlled and civilized environments: the organized guild.

The fact that mmo gamers keep aging and having more responsabilities (so, less time for gaming) also doesn't seem to help the socialization part.

 

I think all those combined factors explain why we tend to socialize less in mmorpgs. Beside having meaningful discussions with guildmates, we usually try to stay away from other players.

 

TLDR version:

-Mmo players became more and more cynical after each mmo they tried. It doesn't help to socialize.

-Less time for gaming, therefore less time for ingame socialization.

-The last socialization stronghold is the guild.

 

Are there solutions to encourage mmo gamers to socialize more in modern mmos. I think so:

-Increase a lot the mmos difficulty. I mean, add nearly impossible fights with insane mechanics + enhanced AI. Adversity brings cooperation usually.

-Add an ingame voice chat + webcam. Less anonymity usually equals less antisocial behaviors.

-Add the possibility to scan our own face + body and bring it into the game. I know, this one might have horrendous consequences but you'd feel like you're actually in front of a real person and we'd reach an insane amount of character diversity in mmos.

-Organize way more events, on a weekly basis if possible with GMs and moderators. It helps so much to build the community.

-Be much more severe when you have to ban a player. First offence = 1 month. Second offence = banned forever.

Edited May 20, 2012 by Sammm