Asturias Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 (edited) Pre-made are allowed to enter a match. Having the ability to use such programs as Team Speak or any other form of voice over interent is a serious advantage in a PvP match. There is no skill envolved when a Pre-made has this advantage over another group who doesn't and the complaints will always show up on the forums as people get frustrated with losing in PvP. BioWARE if you seriously want to make a difference in PvP, allow only ranked Warzones to become group able only. People constantly complain about how great the old days of MMO PvP was but that was because most PvPing was not Pre-made groups or BGs but an all out open brawl and if you had the skill to survive it, it showed. You don't have to agree with me on this which I know most of you won't but lets think about it for just a minute and ask yourself is it really skill, class balance issues or a select group of well cordinated people that have the advantage over another by using a VOI program in matches. If anything Pre-made are getting a free ride in commendation rewards because of this unfair advantage. What needs to happen is the change of how PvP is done for instance. PvP Daily: Should be a reward for pugging in a group and lets see if this changes the outcome of the complaints. Communication is a tactical advantage in every battle, situation and its shown all through history. Its what wins WARS so if another group has a better form of communication 9 out 10 the group with a communication advantage is going to win its the nature of war. I am a PvP player by heart and I love every minute of it but this had to be said and most of you know it. /flame away Edited May 17, 2012 by Asturias Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briq Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 prohibiting premades would be one of the most detrimental decisions ever made. that being said not pitting premades against premades is also a really bad idea. the problem is that most servers have such low population that anything that further filters the queue process would bring pops from long to non-existent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahhmyface Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 rofll.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoraji Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 (edited) Pre-made are allowed to enter a match. Having the ability to use such programs as Team Speak or any other form of voice over interent is a serious advantage in a PvP match. There is no skill envolved when a Pre-made has this advantage over another group who doesn't and the complaints will always show up on the forums as people get frustrated with losing in PvP. BioWARE if you seriously want to make a difference in PvP, allow only ranked Warzones to become group able only. People constantly complain about how great the old days of MMO PvP was but that was because most PvPing was not Pre-made groups or BGs but an all out open brawl and if you had the skill to survive it, it showed. You don't have to agree with me on this which I know most of you won't but lets think about it for just a minute and ask yourself is it really skill, class balance issues or a select group of well cordinated people that have the advantage over another by using a VOI program in matches. If anything Pre-made are getting a free ride in commendation rewards because of this unfair advantage. I am a PvP player by heart and I love every minute of it but this had to be said and most of you know it. /flame away Do you know what most pre-mades talk about in voice while pvping? - How bad YOU are - Katy Perry's rack - Random ******** Alot of the time pre-mades arent even IN voice-chat. The fact of the matter is this, people who enjoy pre-mades are simply better at pvp. PUGS have always been bad in every online game since wolfenstein. Edited May 17, 2012 by Khoraji Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vudu Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Involved ... not envolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmasterr Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Right, using a voice chat program requires 20 years of school and a licence and is inaccessible to the majority. Trying to use it without a licence you will go to jail. Also having friends can get you a rap sheet with the police if your found out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swidgin Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Pre-made are allowed to enter a match. Having the ability to use such programs as Team Speak or any other form of voice over interent is a serious advantage in a PvP match. There is no skill envolved when a Pre-made has this advantage over another group who doesn't and the complaints will always show up on the forums as people get frustrated with losing in PvP. BioWARE if you seriously want to make a difference in PvP, allow only ranked Warzones to become group able only. People constantly complain about how great the old days of MMO PvP was but that was because most PvPing was not Pre-made groups or BGs but an all out open brawl and if you had the skill to survive it, it showed. You don't have to agree with me on this which I know most of you won't but lets think about it for just a minute and ask yourself is it really skill, class balance issues or a select group of well cordinated people that have the advantage over another by using a VOI program in matches. If anything Pre-made are getting a free ride in commendation rewards because of this unfair advantage. I am a PvP player by heart and I love every minute of it but this had to be said and most of you know it. /flame away The fail is strong with this one ^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asturias Posted May 17, 2012 Author Share Posted May 17, 2012 Do you know what most pre-mades talk about in voice while pvping? - How bad YOU are - Katy Perry's rack - Random ******** Alot of the time pre-mades arent even IN voice-chat. The fact of the matter is this, people who enjoy pre-mades are simply better at pvp. PUGS have always been bad in every online game since wolfenstein. lol, I have been in pre-made and I know what they talk about but what I posted is true. Typing in chat vs over a Mic is a huge advantage even before the game starts off and I do believe that if you want to show off skill let it be against another well cordinated team that has the same advantages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDiggler Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 (edited) Bads gone wild,,,, riding the badtanic crying us baddie tears of bad Edited May 17, 2012 by DirtyDiggler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asturias Posted May 17, 2012 Author Share Posted May 17, 2012 (edited) Right, using a voice chat program requires 20 years of school and a licence and is inaccessible to the majority. Trying to use it without a licence you will go to jail. Also having friends can get you a rap sheet with the police if your found out. I see the sarcasim spewing from most of you but it cost money to use such programs and that is why most guilds chip in for the monthly cost. I know I did for mine but facts are facts. There is no skill envolved when the other team doesn't have this but hey its free commendations for likes of people that do and gear grind for the ones that don't. Is it really fair? Edited May 17, 2012 by Asturias Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swidgin Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 bads gone wild,,,, riding the badtanic crying us baddie tears of bad this ^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iphobia Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 You know, there are people who enjoy playing with friends? If I want to play solo, I play a singleplayer game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunez Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Pre-made are allowed to enter a match. Having the ability to use such programs as Team Speak or any other form of voice over interent is a serious advantage in a PvP match. There is no skill envolved when a Pre-made has this advantage over another group who doesn't and the complaints will always show up on the forums as people get frustrated with losing in PvP. .. Something tells me you've never used VOIP's on an MMO before. You should try it, you'll find that it's a thoroughly entertaining, and full of sociable, heart-felt, fun. This sort of organization doesn't ruin games, it improves them. I strongly recommend that you try joining a guild, and use VOIP. You will never go back. Secondly, to say there is no skill, is just a warped sense of understanding for what is really going on. We're a bunch of friends playing a video game together... having fun... utilizing the same skill-output and learning curve as anyone else. There is no lack of skill, by being organized, and having fun. VOIP doesn't give us special abilities, higher damage output, great protection or any other advantage. The only real advantage is to notify each other quicker when our node is being attacked instead of having to type it. Many games incorporate VOIPs directly into the game just for this reason. I understand your frustration, but your argument is like being allergic to milk and claiming that pizza ruins the world of food. BioWARE if you seriously want to make a difference in PvP, allow only ranked Warzones to become group able only. People constantly complain about how great the old days of MMO PvP was but that was because most PvPing was not Pre-made groups or BGs but an all out open brawl and if you had the skill to survive it, it showed. Ranked Warzones are not designed for the random casual lone ranger who wants to play with the big-boys. It's meant to be the next level of competition for people who enjoy participating in organized sports. I wouldn't worry about Ranked Warzones if I were you, you're probably not the demographic that it's being built for. I'm also quite astonished that you, and others with similar points of view, are using the term Pre-Made in a derogatory tone. Pre-Mades are not a negative, they are a pure byproduct of collective organization in any given competitive field. You don't have to agree with me on this which I know most of you won't but lets think about it for just a minute and ask yourself is it really skill, class balance issues or a select group of well cordinated people that have the advantage over another by using a VOI program in matches. If anything Pre-made are getting a free ride in commendation rewards because of this unfair advantage. I am a PvP player by heart and I love every minute of it but this had to be said and most of you know it. /flame away Free rides? No skill? I don't understand how these are by any means relevant. You're sort of flaming us for something that I'm not quite sure understand fully... Please... please, please... join a guild... join someone's guild VOIP.... see it for yourself first hand before you make claims. I genuinely encourage you to participate with us so you can have a better handle of what you're saying here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmasterr Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 I see the sarcasim spewing from most of you but it cost money to use such programs and that is why most guilds chip in for the monthly cost. I know I did for mine but facts are facts. There is no skill envolved when the other team doesn't have this but hey its free commendations for likes of people that do and gear grind for the ones that don't. Is it really fair? It's 100% free. L2Google. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
criminalheretic Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Do you know what most pre-mades talk about in voice while pvping? - How bad YOU are - Katy Perry's rack - Random ******** Alot of the time pre-mades arent even IN voice-chat. The fact of the matter is this, people who enjoy pre-mades are simply better at pvp. PUGS have always been bad in every online game since wolfenstein. 'Fact of the matter' here meaning: In your opinion... Premades = Slight advantage if you are familiar with the people on your team and have developed rapport and tactics Premades on Voice = HUGE advantage, but not neccesarily an "unfair" advantage. Just an unfortunate one for people who don't have that as an option. (Yes there are people that do not have that as an option, just because you do, doesn't mean everyone does, people can make friends, join guilds, get vent or GSC, but that takes time, it's not something that is instantly available to everyone, that some are just choosing to ignore.) What I don't get, is how people that roll premades will tell the other 75% of the population to do the same, but won't entertain for a second the idea of breaking up their premade to solo-q. The irony being, when people complain about facing premades, what they are usually complaining about is facing the same group over and over and going 2-6 hours without a win. If those premades queued solo, they would mostly get grouped together anyway because if you are facing the same group over and over, they are probably the only 8 people on that server queing up again and again. You want a "guarantee" of your perfect team composition, you have to wait until your opponents have that same advantage. You want to play quickly, you run the risk of carrying a few stray pugs against a team that will still most likely be 8 Pugs anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmuerto Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Wait a mInute...you mean MMO massively multiplayer online ?? What it's not me and myself only ??? I feel your pug bud, but it's what mmo's are for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asturias Posted May 17, 2012 Author Share Posted May 17, 2012 You know, there are people who enjoy playing with friends? If I want to play solo, I play a singleplayer game. There is nothing wrong with that but you gotta look at the big picture here. Pre-made have kinda ruined PvP altogether because of the advantage of VOI in a REGULAR PvP BG. I say leave the Pre-made to the ranked arenas is all I am getting at. Your not going to have compitition while steam rolling over a pug group what kinda skill is that displaying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flem Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 What is this "BG" of which you speak? Anyway, nothing is preventing people on your side from doing the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asturias Posted May 17, 2012 Author Share Posted May 17, 2012 What is this "BG" of which you speak? Anyway, nothing is preventing people on your side from doing the same thing. Battle Ground bud and your right but like I said Money is a factor for most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoraji Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 'Fact of the matter' here meaning: In your opinion... Premades = Slight advantage if you are familiar with the people on your team and have developed rapport and tactics Premades on Voice = HUGE advantage, but not neccesarily an "unfair" advantage. Just an unfortunate one for people who don't have that as an option. (Yes there are people that do not have that as an option, just because you do, doesn't mean everyone does, people can make friends, join guilds, get vent or GSC, but that takes time, it's not something that is instantly available to everyone, that some are just choosing to ignore.) I guess it cant be fact without hard evidence, true. But i have been playing online games purely for pvp for over a decade and from my experience, if you never pre-made (aka arent in a clan/guild/team) you are not as good as those who are. Period. Premades in voice = slight advantage. How hard is it to type "inc east". Because that is all pre-mades will say in voice chat at MOST. Like i said, most of the time there is no set strategy, its just the fact that pre-mades have better players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asturias Posted May 17, 2012 Author Share Posted May 17, 2012 .. Something tells me you've never used VOIP's on an MMO before. You should try it, you'll find that it's a thoroughly entertaining, and full of sociable, heart-felt, fun. This sort of organization doesn't ruin games, it improves them. I strongly recommend that you try joining a guild, and use VOIP. You will never go back. I have used it multiple times in this game with my guild mates but I recognize the severity of this advantage. Recently some of my guild mates have left and not do to the game being terrible but because of life issues so they can't play as much anymore. I have pugged a little more now than I did before but I will admit it is a advantage when playing and I think it should be left to ranked warzones. You see on the forums time and again about all sorts of class balance and something is wrong with this BG but is it really those issues of PvP or is it Pre-made and I believe its Pre-made groups. PvP should be fair and having the ability to talk to friends and cordinating attack vs typing is a huge advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iphobia Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Here I have a quote for you. typical vent: "man, i need to get my warhero patns" "i got mine last night. that's what you get for buying d3" "bastard. 2 inc left" "how is it anyway?" "it's pretty good. probably not long term game though" "cool. help me kill samcu" I only play PvP when there is someone online in skype/ts. While in skype/ts, I talk about warzone relevant stuff like 5% of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloga Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 I don't need voice to coordinate with my team. I don't need voice to pick out the best kill order. I don't need voice to peel for my healer or ranged dps. I don't need voice to figure out what the enemy is doing. A team on voice does have an advantage, no doubt, because I can hit my push to talk button and say east instead of making these really really long chat enteries: East, West, center. I would not mind a premade vs premade bracket in normal warzones AFTER they merge their servers. Banning them all together would make me hit the unsubscribe button faster then you can blink. You may not be aware of this, but people in premades hate being around most pugers more then you hate being stuck against us. Most pugers, pug because they are so bad that no decent players will group with them. Most of us don't like to rofl stomp people who can barely hit the power button on their computer let alone be bothered to look up at their chat window for the plan or the incoming calls...or to call them. We want even fights, close matches. We don't want to be grouped with you and we don't want to be grouped against you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
criminalheretic Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 I guess it cant be fact without hard evidence, true. But i have been playing online games purely for pvp for over a decade and from my experience, if you never pre-made (aka arent in a clan/guild/team) you are not as good as those who are. Period. Premades in voice = slight advantage. How hard is it to type "inc east". Because that is all pre-mades will say in voice chat at MOST. Like i said, most of the time there is no set strategy, its just the fact that pre-mades have better players. I am in a guild. And do roll premades. I even downloaded a voice client. As of last week. So by your estimation I magically got better once I joined, or did they recruit me because I was performing very well as a PuG player? I would humbly suggest that if you are playing with friends, on voice, and the only communication you have going on is Katy Perry's rack, and occasionally saying "inc east". Then it is not your team that people are complaining about. Keep doing what you're doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asturias Posted May 17, 2012 Author Share Posted May 17, 2012 (edited) I don't need voice to coordinate with my team. I don't need voice to pick out the best kill order. I don't need voice to peel for my healer or ranged dps. I don't need voice to figure out what the enemy is doing. A team on voice does have an advantage, no doubt, because I can hit my push to talk button and say east instead of making these really really long chat enteries: East, West, center. I would not mind a premade vs premade bracket in normal warzones AFTER they merge their servers. Banning them all together would make me hit the unsubscribe button faster then you can blink. You may not be aware of this, but people in premades hate being around most pugers more then you hate being stuck against us. Most pugers, pug because they are so bad that no decent players will group with them. Most of us don't like to rofl stomp people who can barely hit the power button on their computer let alone be bothered to look up at their chat window for the plan or the incoming calls...or to call them. We want even fights, close matches. We don't want to be grouped with you and we don't want to be grouped against you. That is so false its funny and there are quite a few good players out there that do know there class well and probably more than Pre-made for the simple fact they don't depend on there buddy Ricky Bobby to heal them. Edited May 17, 2012 by Asturias Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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