Dear Bioware - I don't want your stinking Recruit Gear.

[Swijr]

I read the first page of QQ and decided to reply.

 

I have a lvl 50 commando and decided to lvl up a Shadow. On the way from 10, I converted ALL WZ comms into merc comms (yes, before the 1.2 patch), so I have 1000 of those. I then bought a set of 20 and 40 pvp gear and converted ALL extra wz comms into adrenals and medpacks. I came close to the 2k wz comm cap when I hit 40 and converted them into ranked wz comms.

 

At 48 (ding last night) I have 3000 ranked wz comms and 1000 merc comms (basically 1000 wz comms). When I hit 50 I'll have the 2k wz comms and do the following:

 

• BM Chest - Remove all the mods
  
• Barter BM chest for WH Chest
  
• Put BM mods into my augmented orange helm (or w/e)
  
• Buy all recruit gear except for the helm and gloves
  
• Win a wz, buy BM gloves
  

 

At 50 + 1 win in a wz you can have a WH chest, 2 BM pieces (basically) and the rest is recruit. (I'll have access to an additional 1000 wz comms thanks to the merc comms, but that's not the norm.) And why get the chest piece over the mainhand or offhand? You can get an augmented mainhand, just drop mods into that with an augment (no valor restriction on weapons).

 

 

How hard is that?

 

 

Swijr

Edited May 15, 2012 by Swijr

[Steele_dk]

It's fine the way it is.

 

If you could buy all your BM gear before 50 then people would be punished if they do anything besides PvP while leveling.

 

Get to 50 and get your level 50 gear by playing against level 50 players.

 

We don't expect to have the best rading gear waiting for us when we hit 50 either.

 

Ill agree to the gear at 50 should be worked for at lvl 50 ideology. But what about valor cap? Is there a social point cap aswell for you pve'ers? You might say valor does nothing after 1.2 but yes it does, you cant wear the crafted pvp sets before youre respectively valor 60 (BM sets) or 70 (WH)

 

The valor cap is lame, period. Its bioware way of telling us like kids that we should not pvp as much before 50, and enjoy their glorious pve content.

 

Stop telling ppl what to do and reward the ppl if THEY choose to pvp alot pre 50 by letting it reflect upon they valor rank.

 

And to OP, stop sulking and just play. If you are complaining about getting from recruit gear to bm now, you will properly quit when you hit the BM to WH wall.

[kitsinni]

I was going to disagree but the random capitalization of words is so convincing that I can't argue against it.

[Timadan]

The majority of the players opposed to the op's idea are the ones that get a woody when they destroy a fresh 50 in 4gcds.

 

"I paid my dues you must pay yours now' is an archaic idea that has no place in something people do for entertainment.

 

But then again there's people who use the word 'work' associated with playing a game as well so it doesn't surprise me.

[Sookster]

I read the first page of QQ and decided to reply.

 

I have a lvl 50 commando and decided to lvl up a Shadow. On the way from 10, I converted ALL WZ comms into merc comms (yes, before the 1.2 patch), so I have 1000 of those. I then bought a set of 20 and 40 pvp gear and converted ALL extra wz comms into adrenals and medpacks. I came close to the 2k wz comm cap when I hit 40 and converted them into ranked wz comms.

 

At 48 (ding last night) I have 3000 ranked wz comms and 1000 merc comms (basically 1000 wz comms). When I hit 50 I'll have the 2k wz comms and do the following:

 

• BM Chest - Remove all the mods
  
• Barter BM chest for WH Chest
  
• Put BM mods into my augmented orange helm (or w/e)
  
• Buy all recruit gear except for the helm and gloves
  
• Win a wz, buy BM gloves
  

 

At 50 + 1 win in a wz you can have a WH chest, 2 BM pieces (basically) and the rest is recruit. (I'll have access to an additional 1000 wz comms thanks to the merc comms, but that's not the norm.) And why get the chest piece over the mainhand or offhand? You can get an augmented mainhand, just drop mods into that with an augment (no valor restriction on weapons).

 

 

How hard is that?

 

 

Swijr

 

Are you saying move BM chest mods to augmented orange helmet? Because that won't work, you have to move chest mods to chest, the game won't allow you to do that anymore.

 

When you hit valor 40 (should be doable by level 40-41), bank up some ranked WZ comms and then convert them back at 50 at a 1:1 ratio, but buy the cheapest pieces first so you can get as much as you need at the start- buy the implants, earpiece, bracer and belt which should be possible with 2K wz comms and at least 1400 ranked comms banked.

 

Recruit gear is just terrible, terrible, terrible and costs a stupid amount of credits. I know someone that dinged 50 this weekend, bought a few pieces of BM pieces and pvp'd without recruit gear and did fine because he had 500ish expertise and 17K health, he was trying to save credits for speederbike training and legacy items.

[chimex]

The easiest way to get around this 2 pieces of BM when you hit 50 is simple. When leveling up via pvp, every time you max your WZ comms, spend them on rated. Once you hit 50 (and a few maxed out WZ comms later) buy them back as WZ comms and enjoy a fresh full BM set.

 

As the meercat says, simples

 

x

[DarkDruidSS]

The majority of the players opposed to the op's idea are the ones that get a woody when they destroy a fresh 50 in 4gcds.

 

"I paid my dues you must pay yours now' is an archaic idea that has no place in something people do for entertainment.

 

But then again there's people who use the word 'work' associated with playing a game as well so it doesn't surprise me.

 

Can't fault the players when majority of MMOs are designed to be that way. If you want an MMO that is different then you will have to play an MMO that is different and most of those have very few players still playing them.

 

Seriously though, if you are a more hardcore pvper then this game is a filler for games on the horizon that have different systems... but even GW2 with gear not mattering for PvP... levels do. So you still have to put in the time to get to level 80 and until you get there you will do less damage than a true 80 because like all bolstering systems.. even in SWTOR... it doesn't work perfectly and there is no substitute for the actual levels.

[Mirthadrond]

No, the valor 70 requirement is for crafted WH gear, not for the ones you buy with comms.

 

 

The 10-49 bracket is not the same as the 50 bracket.

Normal mode flashpoints and 1-49 quests are not the same as hadmode flashpoints and PvE dailies.

 

Someone should not be able to earn full Rakata gear from the lower level PvE, exactly the same way as someone should not be able to earn full Battlemaster from the lower level PvP.

 

My second char (Assassin) is level 37 at the moment, and of course I feel like my comms are going to waste since I cannot use the comms I am earning for anything meaningful, but at least I am able to accept that doing Black Talon normal is not the same as doing Black Talon hardmode...

 

No - I can't "earn" FULL rakata gear, but my pre 50 character can already craft and sell Rakata gear having never done a hard mode flash point.... ever.

 

No - you can't do Black Talon Hard mode, but you can still farm Black Talon normal for companion affection and Light Side/Dark Side points, which are (arguably) equally as important as your end game gear.

 

And Finally:

The only 'major' difference between Pre 50 and Post 50 PVP is the vast amounts of "Expertise" stats floating around.

Here's another difference between the two.

At Pre level 50, a team of low level skilled players can beat a team of of high level players who are not working together.

 

However, At lvl 50 - a team of ungeared players, no matter how skilled, will not beat a clueless but fully geared team, ever.

 

I'm sorry, but if you want to blame anyone for Biowares end game design schizophrenia, blame them.

 

Do not blame me for wanting to bypass some of the grief, and 'break the game' by being able to save more than 2000 war zone comms.

[DarkDruidSS]

Do not blame me for wanting to bypass some of the grief, and 'break the game' by being able to save more than 2000 war zone comms.

 

THIS is the part that is wrong with YOUR posts. You CAN save more than 2k comms and YOU CHOOSE not to because you feel you are wasting time. So you CAN have more BM gear at fresh 50 than you claim, but YOU CHOOSE not to.

 

Don't blame BW because YOU have the option yet YOU CHOOSE not to. Hard to get support for your cause when people pointed you to a solution, but YOU refuse to take it.

 

random capitalization to mimic the orignal post

[Swijr]

Are you saying move BM chest mods to augmented orange helmet? Because that won't work, you have to move chest mods to chest, the game won't allow you to do that anymore.

 

Since when? I'm not talking about set bonuses...just moving mods into gear. I'm pretty sure this can be done.

 

 

Found what you're talking about:

1.2 - Players can now remove Armoring modifications that have set bonuses from items and transfer those set bonuses to Custom (orange) items. These modifications can only be transferred to an item that is equipped in the same slot. This does not apply to all items with a set bonus, only those where the set bonus is attached to the Armoring modification.

 

That doesn't apply to BM, only WH/Campaign. It's been stated that they couldn't "recode" the existing armor, so it's only for new stuff going forward.

 

 

Swijr

Edited May 15, 2012 by Swijr

[Staalker]

It's not really the intention of the system to do com conversion to effectively give you more than 2k, unless you are referring to something else.

 

I don't think they should change the way gear is. As someone who has 6 50's, with only 2 of them full BM gear....I don't want easier access to the BM gear.

 

Why?

 

Well, the stat increase of Warhero gear is tiny when you consider what it takes to get a single piece. I got my BM gear before 1.2, and I am don't want to grind again so I plan to stick with BM gear as it comes. At least until ranked WZ's, which I may never play because I am not in a guild. When I can earn the WH comms right out, I would likely spent them on WH gear. But the conversion rate now is sick...and I have no intentions of grinding it out.

 

There is little at 50 for a player to do. PvP is really the largest chunk of time spent for most 50's, and what are the rewards of PvP? If BM gear is easier to get, then why would you PvP?

 

Like I said, I have 6 50's, 2 are full BM gear. I do use them to PvP but not as much as those without the BM gear. Usually, by the time I complete the daily pvp mission, I can buy one piece of BM gear. Maybe not now since you get partial mission credit for a loss, but previously it was true.

 

BM gear is so easy to get, even if you get your butt kicked before you get it, it won't be long you are getting your butt kicked.

 

If BM gear becomes easier to get, what do you have to look forward to from PvP? I mean, it's fun at times, but the idea of competing in it is for some kind of reward.

 

The flaw here is not that it takes too long to get BM gear. It's that there is too little to do at 50. You can burn through the PvP rewards in a couple weeks, that means full BM gear, the speeders and stacks of meds. You can make it so that there is very little left to buy in a very short time.

 

This is why people are honestly leaving, or not logging in today. Many blame the PvP changes, but from everyone I talk to it's because there is no incentive to do PvP anymore. The Warhero gear is barely an upgrade to BM gear. Not enough of an upgrade to warrant the time it takes to earn a single piece right now. At some point you end up spending your comms because you have nothing else to spend them on, and you may end up with enough to buy a piece. But it's a large grind if you are trying to get a whole set now.

 

What happens when Ranked WZ goes live? What will people work for then? Most will have the ranked gear already. They will be playing PvP, like they are now...with little to purchase at the end of the day.

 

No, BM costs are fine. Honestly, I think they should put Champion gear back in. Do for BM gear like they do for WH gear. You need to exchange comms AND a Champ piece to get the BM piece.

 

At least there would be some incentive to PvP. Maybe it's just me, but if people are doing PvP everyday it's because they really like it. Win or lose. Because there is nothing to really give them an incentive to play it.

 

That is what Bioware needs to fix, and fast, if they want to bring the player back. And that's assuming they would even come back.

[Blasphemerr]

I have a GREAT time pvping from lvl 10 - 49.

 

Really?

[BobaFaceroll]

I was pretty excited before 1.2 when I thought I was going to be able to farm Battlemaster gear while I leveled an alt. That meant I could hit the ground running at 50 with a full set of BM gear and actually be competitive with 50s in full War Hero gear. There would still be a gear gap, but it wouldn't be as bad as it was pre-1.2, and it wouldn't be near as bad as garbage Recruit gear > WH gear.

 

This would have been a good thing. Anyone motivated and serious about PvP could earn their BM gear while they leveled. Anyone that wasn't serious and just wanted the easiest to get gear possible had Recruit gear. Every fresh 50 would still have to earn WH gear to be on even footing with the people that had finished their grind. Then at the 11th hour Bioware changed things so you couldn't buy anything of value pre-50. I know why they did it, but I still don't like it. The difference between equal players in Recruit and War Hero gear is ludicrous. It rather takes the fun out of PvP and dumbs it down to an unnecessary internship period when you walk in to a WZ with 13k morale (if you're lucky) in a set of Recruit gear. You're going to be everyone's special little friend until you've been farmed enough to slowly fail your way to BM gear, and there's no need for it.

 

I agree with the original poster...I don't want Recruit gear either. Put a valor requirement and/or level lock on War Hero gear so people can't farm it while leveling. Heck, just lock the unrated > rated conversion to level 50 and it's done, no farming WH gear before 50. Let the people that are serious farm BM gear while they level though so there's no pointless, enforced period of "Lulz let's **** the n00b in recruit gear" when you hit 50. Make the change when rated WZ go live, and leave the Recruit gear for the people that just want to dabble in unrated WZ now and again.

[Swijr]

What's the diff with farming WH gear while leveling (and it's only from lvl 40+) and farming BM gear? It's the same grind. AND you have to get the BM piece FIRST to trade it in for the WH upgrade.

 

Their current implementation is a good one IMO. Spend the 250k on the misc pieces you don't have and hit the ground running.

 

 

Swijr

[Ehlin]

My issue with recruit gear is that it needs to be purchasable via commendations as well as credits. I pvp a lot when I level a new character and depending on how much exp bonus the legacy buff gives I plan to pvp exclusively. (So tired of the pve quests...) As it stands doing it this way I'll have way more commendations than I know what to do with and I doubt I'll be able to get 300k credits just from pvp, maybe, but I doubt it. Cause I will need to buy things as I level, so it wont be a continual increase in credits.

 

To sum it up... make recruit gear purchasable via credits and let it be purchasable pre-50.

[Blasphemerr]

If players were allowed to purchase battlemaster prior to 50 they would have a full suit of battlemaster with max-aug tweaking before they even reached level 30. I do not find this to be a reasonable request. Grinding battlemsater isn;t the hard part, its the 90k comms to warhero that you should be sad about.

[Sookster]

Between level 40-50 (providing you hit valor 40) you will need to do 20-22 warzones give or take to cap 2K warzone comms and trade in for 660 ranked comms, for someone like me 20-22 warzones a day isn't going to happen. But you can cap 4000 ranked wz comms before 50 if you keep up the pace and then buy 3 cheap pieces of BM with the existing 2000 comms, exchange the ranked wz comms to cap 2000 again and buy the pieces that costs 875, convert ranked wz again and you should be able to buy a helmet or maybe spend 1550 on the chest, but I'd go with the cheapest and leave the most expensive for last. Edited May 15, 2012 by Sookster

[DarkDruidSS]

If players were allowed to purchase battlemaster prior to 50 they would have a full suit of battlemaster with max-aug tweaking before they even reached level 30. I do not find this to be a reasonable request. Grinding battlemsater isn;t the hard part, its the 90k comms to warhero that you should be sad about.

 

No, no, no... we are all supposed to be short sighted and ignore anything that doesn't help us get our goal. We demand level 50 war hero gear in our bank waiting for us at level 50!!!!!

 

/end sarcasm

 

The grind for BM gear is a joke... it's not much harder than the grind for the level 40 PvP set. A set that I geared out my main and 2 companions with because I couldn't stand having comms sitting there when I had over 150 medpacks and adrenals already.

 

It's also sad that in 4 levels... from 40 to 44 I have acquired enough comms to have 3,420 ranked comms. Which means in aside from the 2k comms I had prior to 40... I have grinded out 8,260 wz comms in 4 levels. That isn't hard.. since I prefer to PvP it's just a by product of me pvping... once the ranked comms are capped... which I will still be level 44 before that is done... then I will focus on getting more medpacks and adrenals for awhile before I start worrying about the 2k needed prior to 50.

 

The grind to War Hero is intense... but the difference in stats is far lower than the difference in recruit to battlemaster.

[Swijr]

exchange the ranked wz comms to cap 2000 again...

 

DON'T do this at all....

 

Ranked WZ comms grinding is the worst, just get your WH gear right off the bat.

 

 

Swijr

[kitsinni]

1-49 PvP does NOT prepare you for level 50 PvP. So I think it makes sense that level 1-49 PvP should not equip you for 50 PvP. 1-49 is the freebie fun for all PvP that takes no equipment, spec or level to be good at. You can top the charts in your teens. At level 50 you need to earn your way to play with the big boys, and while your doing it you learn how to actually PvP at 50.

 

IMO you will learn more about SWTOR PvP playing in recruit gear trying to get your BM than you will the entire time from 1-49. Once you work your way up to your BM/WH gear you will not only have gear to compete but you will understand how the game is played at 50 and can contribute.

Edited May 15, 2012 by kitsinni

[BobaFaceroll]

What's the diff with farming WH gear while leveling (and it's only from lvl 40+) and farming BM gear? It's the same grind. AND you have to get the BM piece FIRST to trade it in for the WH upgrade.

 

Their current implementation is a good one IMO. Spend the 250k on the misc pieces you don't have and hit the ground running.

 

 

Swijr

 

The difference is you shouldn't be able to farm WH gear...at all. Rated comms should come from rated WZ. Unfortunately BW couldn't get rated WZ working, so we got gear without the primary means to get it. The stupid converter is there so people didn't spend months raging that they couldn't progress at all because there was no way to get their shiny new gear. To keep people from farming that new gear pre-50, thanks to a lack of rated WZ and a new way to converted unrated comms to rated, they implemented the easiest fix and said "No artifact quality gear of any kind before 50".

 

It's lame. It shouldn't be there. Before the decision to drop rated play happened you were going to be able to farm Battlemaster gear pre-50. War Hero gear was only available once you played in Rated WZ at level 50 and had already farmed Battlemaster gear (whenever). The current state of affairs is due to part of 1.2 not shipping...and it's definitely not a good solution. It's a band aid over a failure to deliver rated WZ.

 

I do agree partially with you though. Hitting the ground running is partially right. What you do in Recruit gear is hit the ground with your face. It's laughably easy to destroy anyone, of any class, in full Recruit gear once you have Battlemaster or better.

[Swijr]

Your expectations are too high. Most don't learn how to pvp EVEN at 50 in WH gear.

 

Swijr

[kitsinni]

The difference is you shouldn't be able to farm WH gear...at all. Rated comms should come from rated WZ. Unfortunately BW couldn't get rated WZ working, so we got gear without the primary means to get it. The stupid converter is there so people didn't spend months raging that they couldn't progress at all because there was no way to get their shiny new gear. To keep people from farming that new gear pre-50, thanks to a lack of rated WZ and a new way to converted unrated comms to rated, they implemented the easiest fix and said "No artifact quality gear of any kind before 50".

 

It's lame. It shouldn't be there. Before the decision to drop rated play happened you were going to be able to farm Battlemaster gear pre-50. War Hero gear was only available once you played in Rated WZ at level 50 and had already farmed Battlemaster gear (whenever). The current state of affairs is due to part of 1.2 not shipping...and it's definitely not a good solution. It's a band aid over a failure to deliver rated WZ.

 

I do agree partially with you though. Hitting the ground running is partially right. What you do in Recruit gear is hit the ground with your face. It's laughably easy to destroy anyone, of any class, in full Recruit gear once you have Battlemaster or better.

 

While I understand your frustration with rated WZ I also understand how bad it would have been to put in rated WZ and then start to figure out server transfers and LFG tool being cross-server or server specific.

[Swijr]

I do agree partially with you though. Hitting the ground running is partially right. What you do in Recruit gear is hit the ground with your face. It's laughably easy to destroy anyone, of any class, in full Recruit gear once you have Battlemaster or better.

 

Not as hard as when you roll in with greens lvl 48 mods.... Recruit gear is viable.

 

Seriously, what part of the "recruit" title sounds like "Hey, this gear is for m**** f****** bad a**** " ... it's for a recruit. AKA, cannon fodder.

 

Swijr

[BobaFaceroll]

Not as hard as when you roll in with greens lvl 48 mods.... Recruit gear is viable.

 

Seriously, what part of the "recruit" title sounds like "Hey, this gear is for m**** f****** bad a**** " ... it's for a recruit. AKA, cannon fodder.

 

Swijr

 

Where did I say I expected recruit gear to be awesome? Oh, I didn't. If you want to spend 5 minutes at 50 gearing up for PvP then by all means go Recruit gear.

 

Please re-read my post. Before they dropped rated WZ you would have been able to farm BM gear before 50, and you would not be able to get War Hero (that MF bad *** gear) before 50 and without actually being a bad *** and winning rated WZs. That is what I want, even if they don't have rated WZ yet. Put a level 50 restriction on converting unrated to rated comms and you simulate what was coming in 1.2 with rated WZ. People that are serious can start with better PvP gear, but still don't have access to the best PvP gear without grinding it out at 50 in real WZ. People that can't be bothered to do that still have instant gear from the Recruit vendor.