Dear Bioware - I don't want your stinking Recruit Gear.

[Mirthadrond]

Let me be clear, THANK YOU for changing the gearing up process. Being able to buy Recruit gear is a nice option.. FOR PVE'rs.

 

However - as a PVP player, I'm sorry, but it is insufficient for my needs. When my 'next' toon hit's 50, I would like the option to buy MORE than 2 pieces of Battlemaster gear.

 

At current BM prices, and the 'questionable' cap on War Zone commendations (2000 - a seemingly arbitrary number to be honest..) makes this is all but impossible.

 

PLEASE... FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY - Increase our War Zone commendations cap to AT THE VERY LEAST 5000 comms. I'd prefer NO cap at all.... but I know you wont do that for "insert stupid reason here".

 

I have a GREAT time pvping from lvl 10 - 49. Granted I can save 2000 comms, buy 2 pieces of BM gear, but I STILL FEEL LIKE I HIT LIKE A WET NOODLE.

Then... as a PVP player, I have to grind out the next 2 weeks replacing all my recruit gear, so I DONT hit like a wet noodle and DONT get utterly destroyed in 4 GCD's.

 

WHY?? When during my slog to 50, I could have purchased an entire set of BM gear, and STILL have comms left over?? I'll be at 50 valor the moment I ding 50.

 

STOP punishing me, and every other dedicated PVP player out there by forcing us to buy recruit gear to continue playing PVP after we hit lvl 50.

 

PLEASE allow us to save MORE than 2000 war zone commendations.

 

Thank you.

[Sporticus]

Battlemaster gear is so ridiculously easy to get now, you really don't have a case. I would almost pay money to be able to see you go through the pre-1.2 PvP gear grind.

[blooddodo]

It's an artificial grind, simple as that. As much as anyone hates it, it makes people play longer than they would otherwise = BioWare wins.

[ComeAndSee]

It's an artificial grind, simple as that. As much as anyone hates it, it makes people play longer than they would otherwise = BioWare wins.

 

No different than free 2 play games except you can pay money to speed up the process. They bank off your addiction.

[YanksfanJP]

Battlemaster gear is so ridiculously easy to get now, you really don't have a case. I would almost pay money to be able to see you go through the pre-1.2 PvP gear grind.

 

There actually is a very good case. Let's take two players: one is level 10 and the other is level 50. They both pvp the exact same amount over the course of the next 2-3 weeks and both earn the same number of warzone commendations. They have both been active in warzones, not afking, playing objectives, focusing healers, etc. Good players.

 

Let's say a full battlemaster set costs 20k commendations (just making the number up because I'm at work and don't have it in front of me. whatever the real cost is, feel free to insert it here).

 

The player who is level 50 will be able to buy every single battlemaster piece as he earns the commendations, and will be fully BM geared when he's done with his X hours of pvp.

 

The player who is level 10 is getting closer to level 50 but isn't quite there yet. Let's say he's level 42. He cannot purchase any of the BM gear yet because he's not level 50. He doesn't want to stay at the commendation cap because anything he earns above that is wasted, so he has to buy something. He purchases medkits and adrenals to stock up because there's not much else to buy. When he finally hits 50 and easily has Valor 50, he can use his capped commendations to buy 2 pieces of BM gear. Despite him pvping the exact same X hours as the other player and earning the exact same number of commendations as the other player, he not only is not fully BM geared, but he still has to grind all that all over again, PLUS he's out another 300k credits for having to buy the recruit gear just to remain mildly competitive and doesn't die instantly while he grinds.

 

 

If a player wants to pool his warzone commendations up to 50, let him! It's only more beneficial to the community if he can be fully BM geared the day he hits 50 - that's one less fresh 50 in the warzones with recruit/leveling gear (which everyone complains about). He did his time, he paid his dues, he pvp 'd just as much as anyone else, he has the valor level to prove it.

 

LET HIM BUY HIS FULL SET OF BM GEAR!

 

We're not talking about some Fresh 50 who's never pvp'd before to be instantly fully geared. He's got his valor requirement. He earned enough comms to purchase the gear. But the cap makes him have to do it all over again.

 

At the least, if you do not want to remove the warzone commendation cap, make Battlemaster gear purchasable by players under level 50, even though they have to bank it and wait until they are level 50. That's also an adequate solution.

Edited May 14, 2012 by YanksfanJP

[Darth_Philar]

I would be in favor of a Legacy unlock that increases your maximum commendation amount. That way first time players will still be limited forcing them to learn their class as they gear up while people rolling alts will be able to stockpile commendations and gear up at 50.

[WildcardHatesYou]

I agree - let us buy the gear as we're levelling.

[Sporticus]

In a word, no. Endgame in this game is already dumbed down so much as to be insulting. The current method for getting endgame PvP gear is in place because so many people were astounded that they had to grind to get gear for PvP prior to 1.2, and the current method is arguably the easiest gear grind ever in an mmo.

 

I would personally not have a huge issue if they upped the cap on commendations or if they allowed purchase of BM gear at, say, valor rank 49, but a system which rewards players for farming commendations in the 1-49 bracket in order to buy the better level 50 PvP gear effectively without ever setting foot in a level 50 warzone is inherently flawed. Fresh 50s, in my opinion, should not be able to suit up in more than 3 pieces of BM gear right out of the gate.

[lectotrans]

I would be in favor of a Legacy unlock that increases your maximum commendation amount. That way first time players will still be limited forcing them to learn their class as they gear up while people rolling alts will be able to stockpile commendations and gear up at 50.

 

if they haven't "learned their class" by level 50 pvping enough during the leveling process to get the comms to buy a full set of BM gear, then they wont ever learn it. such a low cap on warzone comms does not do anything other than instill another grind.

[MrHotter]

It's fine the way it is.

 

If you could buy all your BM gear before 50 then people would be punished if they do anything besides PvP while leveling.

 

Get to 50 and get your level 50 gear by playing against level 50 players.

 

We don't expect to have the best rading gear waiting for us when we hit 50 either.

[lectotrans]

In a word, no. Endgame in this game is already dumbed down so much as to be insulting. The current method for getting endgame PvP gear is in place because so many people were astounded that they had to grind to get gear for PvP prior to 1.2, and the current method is arguably the easiest gear grind ever in an mmo.

 

I would personally not have a huge issue if they upped the cap on commendations or if they allowed purchase of BM gear at, say, valor rank 49, but a system which rewards players for farming commendations in the 1-49 bracket in order to buy the better level 50 PvP gear effectively without ever setting foot in a level 50 warzone is inherently flawed. Fresh 50s, in my opinion, should not be able to suit up in more than 3 pieces of BM gear right out of the gate.

 

why? BM gear isn't endgame pvp gear. that commendation farming you're talking about, means they played just as many warzones as someone who didn't do it untill 50 to get their gear.

[Astarica]

I don't see why you shouldn't be able to buy BM gear as you level up, but since it's trivial to get BM gear either way it's not something I'm particularly worried about. It probably takes more effort to have a full set of BM while not at level 50 than at level 50 simply as a function of queue time, so I'm not sure why people feel they need a harder way to get the same thing.

[TonyDragonflame]

I have a GREAT time pvping from lvl 10 - 49. Granted I can save 2000 comms, buy 2 pieces of BM gear, but I STILL FEEL LIKE I HIT LIKE A WET NOODLE.

Then... as a PVP player, I have to grind out the next 2 weeks replacing all my recruit gear, so I DONT hit like a wet noodle and DONT get utterly destroyed in 4 GCD's.

 

WHY?? When during my slog to 50, I could have purchased an entire set of BM gear, and STILL have comms left over?? I'll be at 50 valor the moment I ding 50.

.

 

You can change wz comm to ranked wz comm, and when you hit 50 lvl, you will have 3500 ranked wz comm and buy War Hero mainhand weapon

 

I did so.

[MrXen]

laggy double post Edited May 14, 2012 by MrXen

[otherworlder]

In a word, no. Endgame in this game is already dumbed down so much as to be insulting. The current method for getting endgame PvP gear is in place because so many people were astounded that they had to grind to get gear for PvP prior to 1.2, and the current method is arguably the easiest gear grind ever in an mmo.

 

I would personally not have a huge issue if they upped the cap on commendations or if they allowed purchase of BM gear at, say, valor rank 49, but a system which rewards players for farming commendations in the 1-49 bracket in order to buy the better level 50 PvP gear effectively without ever setting foot in a level 50 warzone is inherently flawed. Fresh 50s, in my opinion, should not be able to suit up in more than 3 pieces of BM gear right out of the gate.

 

If you really enjoyed PvP for the competition, sport and fun you would not make this argument. True PvPers would prefer to hand the damn BM stuff out at 50 for free so we aren't either:

 

A. Losing because half our team are forced to grind in garbage recruit gear or no expertise gear at all.

B. Winning because the other team has the above problem, not because we outplayed them.

 

Encouraging a gear gap in endgame pvp suggests you enjoy your gear advantage and facerolling freshies more than you enjoy the actual competition of player versus player.

[WickedImage]

In a word, no. Endgame in this game is already dumbed down so much as to be insulting. The current method for getting endgame PvP gear is in place because so many people were astounded that they had to grind to get gear for PvP prior to 1.2, and the current method is arguably the easiest gear grind ever in an mmo.

 

I would personally not have a huge issue if they upped the cap on commendations or if they allowed purchase of BM gear at, say, valor rank 49, but a system which rewards players for farming commendations in the 1-49 bracket in order to buy the better level 50 PvP gear effectively without ever setting foot in a level 50 warzone is inherently flawed. Fresh 50s, in my opinion, should not be able to suit up in more than 3 pieces of BM gear right out of the gate.

 

Easiest gear grind ever? No GW is easiest. There is no grind. Everyone is the same gear-wise. "Skill" actually can play a part in that scenario.

No much call for any "huge personal issues" here, so no one cares. The entire mmo system is based "farming" to buy better stuff, so what is your quibble again?

As far as "fresh 50's" and "your opinion".....well.....yours is no more valid/invalid than the original posters. So your "opinion" is useless when citing it as a logical reason to not allow for the OP's request.

Gear should be for vanity only anyways. Expertise is not a fun mechanic for anyone trying to climb that hill except for those who were the first ones up the hill to reach the top. Alot harder climb when those on top are shoving you back down every step of the way.....

 

/agree with OP.

[V-Serp]

GW2 has no gear grind. If PVP players just dumped SWTOR for GW2 then, and only then, would Bioware remove the gear grind. But by then it'd be too late, because that's just how life works. If you take care of the problem in advance you can prevent it, but very, very few individuals have the foresight and intelligence to do so.

 

Bioware is taking the gamble that it won't matter and they can make more money keeping a gear grind in than taking it out. I don't know if they're right or not, I actually lean towards them being right.

[Blurps]

At the current rates it takes less time to farm a BM piece than raging on the forums about the "grind".

[otherworlder]

At the current rates it takes less time to farm a BM piece than raging on the forums about the "grind".

 

For no-lifers like us, sure. For more casual or diverse gamers who do other things (in and out of TOR), it's still a long grind that until they complete, they will be useless in a WZ and not having fun.

 

Don't you people realize what an awful business model that is in this day and age? "Hey, farm this gear and THEN you can maybe start having fun?"

 

Most people will not pay these stupid dues just to pvp in 4 repetitive WZs against unbalanced classes. They will go play something else.

 

GW2 seems to get that. PvP should be about player skill and coordination, not who has fewer RL commitments.

 

Heck, pre 1.2 actually got that part right. You could perform okay in Centurion, and a BM wasn't going to rip you in half just by virtue of the gear gap. You could start enjoying the endgame pvp pretty quickly. Now you hit a brick wall you have to climb over just for any hope of having fun.

[ShadowOfVey]

I would be in favor of a Legacy unlock that increases your maximum commendation amount. That way first time players will still be limited forcing them to learn their class as they gear up while people rolling alts will be able to stockpile commendations and gear up at 50.

 

This is actually a pretty neat idea.

[Sporticus]

Easiest gear grind ever? No GW is easiest. There is no grind. Everyone is the same gear-wise. "Skill" actually can play a part in that scenario.

No much call for any "huge personal issues" here, so no one cares. The entire mmo system is based "farming" to buy better stuff, so what is your quibble again?

As far as "fresh 50's" and "your opinion".....well.....yours is no more valid/invalid than the original posters. So your "opinion" is useless when citing it as a logical reason to not allow for the OP's request.

Gear should be for vanity only anyways. Expertise is not a fun mechanic for anyone trying to climb that hill except for those who were the first ones up the hill to reach the top. Alot harder climb when those on top are shoving you back down every step of the way.....

 

/agree with OP.

 

Since English is obviously not your primary language, I'm going to assume you mis-interpreted some of my post. When I said 'arguably' the easiest grind in MMO's I meant just that, arguably. My proposal was simply a counter proposal addressing some of the OP's grievances without handing out gear like candy to people without the stomach to work even the tiniest amount to earn it. You are absolutely right about the entire MMO system and how it is set up, and the OP is asking for a 100% workaround to avoid it. I also never intended to imply that anyone's opinion was invalid, only that the OP didn't have a valid case for making the gear even easier to obtain.

 

As for expertise, you are preaching to the choir. I fought my way up the expertise hill against players who were miles ahead of me in the gear gap, and probably did a full 75% of my grinding while solo que'd. Having done that, I know it is not only possible but not 'that' hard to achieve, especially now that the gear is almost handed to you as a congratulations for hitting 50. Imagine how some of these new 50s would have reacted if they had been in my boat and had hit almost 75 before they got their last BM piece!!!

 

To the poster above you, I do actually enjoy fun and competitive PvP. What I don't enjoy is seeing gamers these days resort to asking for rewards to be handed out for free (be it PvP gear, cosmetic gear, whatever) at the very first sign of adversity.

 

If BW suddenly adopted a GW approach to PvP and there was no gear grind whatsoever, guess what I'd do? I'd adapt and soldier on. I DO understand the frustration, but I wish people would be willing to put out the effort instead of just asking for things to be made easier and easier. However, I maintain that allowing players to farm level 50 rewards with no limitations in the sub 50 bracket is not the answer.

 

edit : The idea about a legacy unlock is brilliant.

Edited May 14, 2012 by Sporticus

[Racter]

Agreed x65000. I decided to reroll a Republic character when I moved to Fatman to avoid doing exactly the same thing twice. Unfortunately, the Republic PVE is not at all interesting or enjoyable IMO. I discovered that PVP in this game wasn't boring as sin at level 14 or so and did nothing but that and most of my class quest until 50.

 

Recruit gear is worthless on Fatman. Rolling into my first 50 warzone was almost mindblowing coming from the 10-49 bracket. I had the full 20 set by 17, and the full 40 set by 25. I also bought multiples of all the weapons once they started having expertise on them to rip the mods out. Was still rank capped by 46 and comm capped several times over by 49. Really frustrating that I couldn't be better prepared for the 50 bracket when I got there.

 

The learning to play your class arguement might work on servers where everyone isn't in full BM or better. On Fatman, there where several instances where I was dead before I even landed from my leap. I wish I hadn't wasted all that money on it, would rather be using that 150k or w/e it was to rip my mods out and swap them into augmented gear/replace the mods/enhancements on this poorly itemized gear.

[wessik]

For no-lifers like us, sure. For more casual or diverse gamers who do other things (in and out of TOR), it's still a long grind that until they complete, they will be useless in a WZ and not having fun.

 

Don't you people realize what an awful business model that is in this day and age? "Hey, farm this gear and THEN you can maybe start having fun?"

 

Most people will not pay these stupid dues just to pvp in 4 repetitive WZs against unbalanced classes. They will go play something else.

 

GW2 seems to get that. PvP should be about player skill and coordination, not who has fewer RL commitments.

 

Heck, pre 1.2 actually got that part right. You could perform okay in Centurion, and a BM wasn't going to rip you in half just by virtue of the gear gap. You could start enjoying the endgame pvp pretty quickly. Now you hit a brick wall you have to climb over just for any hope of having fun.

 

2 weeks dude... that isn't a long grind... playing pvp 1.5 hours a day... seems casual to me...

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=4371977#post4371977

 

how long did it take you to get to 50?

took you probably longer than 2 weeks right?

[criminalheretic]

There actually is a very good case. Let's take two players: one is level 10 and the other is level 50. They both pvp the exact same amount over the course of the next 2-3 weeks and both earn the same number of warzone commendations. They have both been active in warzones, not afking, playing objectives, focusing healers, etc. Good players.

 

Let's say a full battlemaster set costs 20k commendations (just making the number up because I'm at work and don't have it in front of me. whatever the real cost is, feel free to insert it here).

 

The player who is level 50 will be able to buy every single battlemaster piece as he earns the commendations, and will be fully BM geared when he's done with his X hours of pvp.

 

The player who is level 10 is getting closer to level 50 but isn't quite there yet. Let's say he's level 42. He cannot purchase any of the BM gear yet because he's not level 50. He doesn't want to stay at the commendation cap because anything he earns above that is wasted, so he has to buy something. He purchases medkits and adrenals to stock up because there's not much else to buy. When he finally hits 50 and easily has Valor 50, he can use his capped commendations to buy 2 pieces of BM gear. Despite him pvping the exact same X hours as the other player and earning the exact same number of commendations as the other player, he not only is not fully BM geared, but he still has to grind all that all over again, PLUS he's out another 300k credits for having to buy the recruit gear just to remain mildly competitive and doesn't die instantly while he grinds.

 

 

If a player wants to pool his warzone commendations up to 50, let him! It's only more beneficial to the community if he can be fully BM geared the day he hits 50 - that's one less fresh 50 in the warzones with recruit/leveling gear (which everyone complains about). He did his time, he paid his dues, he pvp 'd just as much as anyone else, he has the valor level to prove it.

 

LET HIM BUY HIS FULL SET OF BM GEAR!

 

We're not talking about some Fresh 50 who's never pvp'd before to be instantly fully geared. He's got his valor requirement. He earned enough comms to purchase the gear. But the cap makes him have to do it all over again.

 

At the least, if you do not want to remove the warzone commendation cap, make Battlemaster gear purchasable by players under level 50, even though they have to bank it and wait until they are level 50. That's also an adequate solution.

 

The flaw in this argument is taking a level 10 and a level 50 and saying "they played the same amount of time". That may be true if you started the clock today, but ultimately the 50 went through in the past, everything the 10 is going through now, so to offer a new player BM gear, it would be kind of a slap in the face to all the current 50's.

 

Gear grind is a grind, that's why they call it a grind. But the only thing worse than grinding for gear, is having nothing to grind for.

[MaskedDriver]

I do fine in the Recruit gear. I started PVP after I got to 50 on my Mercenary. I was terrible playing against other geared players, and the recruit gear gives me the ability to at least compete in a WZ.

 

That being said, I absolutely LOVE the gear grind. I love doing everything in my power to kick some faces to get as many comms as possible. The grind makes getting the gear that much sweeter when you have it. I only have 3 pieces of BM gear, and it only took me a couple days worth of PvP to get them.

 

Don't change it BW -- People just don't want to EARN anything anymore. If it's not GIVEN to them, they won' t be happy.